|
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
United States97276 Posts
On July 02 2021 22:47 MaZza[KIS] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 05:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What if Oda is just tricking us and it turns out the rubber rubber fruit has no special significance at all, it's just some random guy talking about a fruit he once failed to guard successfully and the only reason he was guarding it was due to all devil fruits being valuable and he happened to be the most powerful guy near its location at the time?
Then again at this point I am expecting Zoro coming from a long line of master swordsmen, Usopp is the son of a famous sniper pirate, Nami is the daughter of a famous cartographer explorer, Sanji is the son of a master chef, Nico Robin came from an island of archaeologists, Chopper was human all along and Franky's father was a robot. That's funny coz all of these are true for Zoro (grew up on an island who are relatives of Ryuma and Descendants of Kozaburo, the guy who create wado ichimonji and enma), Usopp (his dad is Yasopp) and Nico Robin (from Ohara). Not sure why Oda broke with tradition for Sanji, Chopper and Franky....
they always said that cooking was like chemistry in the kitchen. Judge is a scientist. Cooking is a science. Judge confirmed chef
|
On July 02 2021 16:17 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 14:17 Sentenal wrote:
Goku was still a Saiyan, and being a Saiyan at all puts him ahead of practically the entire cast, save for actual gods. Still, if literally any Sayian of the generation pre-goku/vegeta loved fighting and training half as much as they did, they whole race would still exist.
Yeah pretty sure Goku/Vegeta are the outliers and power level gets roughly inherited, which is why their offsprings are so insanely strong. Freeza was pretty clearly superior to 99.9% of the Sayians, including both their fathers.
On July 02 2021 05:23 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 04:40 Hyperbola wrote:
Yeah, the big 3 MCs all have chosen one powers. Naruto is the son of a Hokage and has a demon inside him from birth, Ichigo is the son of a powerful Shinigami and later turned out to be a Quincy the whole time, and Luffy is the son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, and is clearly the inheritor of Roger's will and is now also probably the reincarnation of Sun God Joy Boy...
Remember kids, if you want to succeed in life you just have to be born into it! Please don't sell my boy Naruto short. His mom also gave him a bloodline that comes with near infinite chakra and he is the reincarnation of the son of Ninja God. but he works really hard so hes relatable
You triggered my Shippuuden PTSD, I'm just going to continue to pretend that Naruto ended with the first valley of the end fight.
Idk what's up with Shonen manga/webtoons and timeskips followed by garbage writing, but between deathnote, Naruto, dragon ball, ToG, Tokyo Ghoul and to a lesser extend OP it's hard not to see a correlation.
|
On July 03 2021 00:31 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 16:17 cLutZ wrote:On July 02 2021 14:17 Sentenal wrote:
Goku was still a Saiyan, and being a Saiyan at all puts him ahead of practically the entire cast, save for actual gods. Still, if literally any Sayian of the generation pre-goku/vegeta loved fighting and training half as much as they did, they whole race would still exist. Yeah pretty sure Goku/Vegeta are the outliers and power level gets roughly inherited, which is why their offsprings are so insanely strong. Freeza was pretty clearly superior to 99.9% of the Sayians, including both their fathers. Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 05:23 Shellshock wrote:On July 02 2021 04:40 Hyperbola wrote:
Yeah, the big 3 MCs all have chosen one powers. Naruto is the son of a Hokage and has a demon inside him from birth, Ichigo is the son of a powerful Shinigami and later turned out to be a Quincy the whole time, and Luffy is the son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, and is clearly the inheritor of Roger's will and is now also probably the reincarnation of Sun God Joy Boy...
Remember kids, if you want to succeed in life you just have to be born into it! Please don't sell my boy Naruto short. His mom also gave him a bloodline that comes with near infinite chakra and he is the reincarnation of the son of Ninja God. but he works really hard so hes relatable You triggered my Shippuuden PTSD, I'm just going to continue to pretend that Naruto ended with the first valley of the end fight. Idk what's up with Shonen manga/webtoons and timeskips followed by garbage writing, but between deathnote, Naruto, dragon ball, ToG, Tokyo Ghoul and to a lesser extend OP it's hard not to see a correlation.
That's an interesting observation, and I actually agree with you on all counts. I guess timeskips usually signify changes in storytelling, which is not always for the better. Sometimes it turns out better, like for JoJo, where they're more akin to "restarts" than "timeskips". But a lot of the time, yeah, typically once you do a timeskip your manga starts deteriorating into typical shonen nonsense and all the unique flavor the series originally had is flushed down the toilet.
|
"Don't avoid the cliches - they are cliches because they work!"
— George Lucas
One Piece has never been about "if you work hard, you'll succeed" (Naruto deserves this criticism hella). It's action adventure for the sake of action and adventure with themes of friendship/companionship. The original sin in all of this is really Dragonball, but even then Goku was always made out to be ridiculously strong and absurdly talented (plus his Ozaru form) before revealing his alien origins. And even way back then it was fun because the character was likeable.
Besides why are people complaining now anyways. Luffy was written as Dragon's child and Garp's grandchild from the start in East Blue.
|
I think BECAUSE he's Dragon's son and Garp's grandson that I don't want the Gum Gum Fruit to be special, Luffy is already from a lineage of One Of the All Time Greatest Marines, and PROBABLY the man with the highest bounty in all of One Piece and mortal enemy to the World Government, he's stacked genetically, why pile the specialness on by also making his fruit be ultra-destiny-magic-protagonist-hero-time?
|
On July 03 2021 10:10 Zambrah wrote:
I think BECAUSE he's Dragon's son and Garp's grandson that I don't want the Gum Gum Fruit to be special, Luffy is already from a lineage of One Of the All Time Greatest Marines, and PROBABLY the man with the highest bounty in all of One Piece and mortal enemy to the World Government, he's stacked genetically, why pile the specialness on by also making his fruit be ultra-destiny-magic-protagonist-hero-time?
because oda is out of touch now?
|
On July 03 2021 00:31 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 16:17 cLutZ wrote:On July 02 2021 14:17 Sentenal wrote:
Goku was still a Saiyan, and being a Saiyan at all puts him ahead of practically the entire cast, save for actual gods. Still, if literally any Sayian of the generation pre-goku/vegeta loved fighting and training half as much as they did, they whole race would still exist. Yeah pretty sure Goku/Vegeta are the outliers and power level gets roughly inherited, which is why their offsprings are so insanely strong. Freeza was pretty clearly superior to 99.9% of the Sayians, including both their fathers. Show nested quote +On July 02 2021 05:23 Shellshock wrote:On July 02 2021 04:40 Hyperbola wrote:
Yeah, the big 3 MCs all have chosen one powers. Naruto is the son of a Hokage and has a demon inside him from birth, Ichigo is the son of a powerful Shinigami and later turned out to be a Quincy the whole time, and Luffy is the son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, and is clearly the inheritor of Roger's will and is now also probably the reincarnation of Sun God Joy Boy...
Remember kids, if you want to succeed in life you just have to be born into it! Please don't sell my boy Naruto short. His mom also gave him a bloodline that comes with near infinite chakra and he is the reincarnation of the son of Ninja God. but he works really hard so hes relatable You triggered my Shippuuden PTSD, I'm just going to continue to pretend that Naruto ended with the first valley of the end fight. Idk what's up with Shonen manga/webtoons and timeskips followed by garbage writing, but between deathnote, Naruto, dragon ball, ToG, Tokyo Ghoul and to a lesser extend OP it's hard not to see a correlation.
Dragonball, by my count, survived a bunch of timeskips before going to shit. There was the Kami training skip in OG DB, then the DB > DBZ Skip, and the Post-Frieza-Pre Androids skips, and basically everything through Cell is up to par, particularly if you just ignore scouters ever existing.
|
On July 03 2021 11:37 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2021 00:31 Archeon wrote:On July 02 2021 16:17 cLutZ wrote:On July 02 2021 14:17 Sentenal wrote:
Goku was still a Saiyan, and being a Saiyan at all puts him ahead of practically the entire cast, save for actual gods. Still, if literally any Sayian of the generation pre-goku/vegeta loved fighting and training half as much as they did, they whole race would still exist. Yeah pretty sure Goku/Vegeta are the outliers and power level gets roughly inherited, which is why their offsprings are so insanely strong. Freeza was pretty clearly superior to 99.9% of the Sayians, including both their fathers. On July 02 2021 05:23 Shellshock wrote:On July 02 2021 04:40 Hyperbola wrote:
Yeah, the big 3 MCs all have chosen one powers. Naruto is the son of a Hokage and has a demon inside him from birth, Ichigo is the son of a powerful Shinigami and later turned out to be a Quincy the whole time, and Luffy is the son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, and is clearly the inheritor of Roger's will and is now also probably the reincarnation of Sun God Joy Boy...
Remember kids, if you want to succeed in life you just have to be born into it! Please don't sell my boy Naruto short. His mom also gave him a bloodline that comes with near infinite chakra and he is the reincarnation of the son of Ninja God. but he works really hard so hes relatable You triggered my Shippuuden PTSD, I'm just going to continue to pretend that Naruto ended with the first valley of the end fight. Idk what's up with Shonen manga/webtoons and timeskips followed by garbage writing, but between deathnote, Naruto, dragon ball, ToG, Tokyo Ghoul and to a lesser extend OP it's hard not to see a correlation. Dragonball, by my count, survived a bunch of timeskips before going to shit. There was the Kami training skip in OG DB, then the DB > DBZ Skip, and the Post-Frieza-Pre Androids skips, and basically everything through Cell is up to par, particularly if you just ignore scouters ever existing.
Personally I think DB was better written than DBZ and while the Sayian/Freeza arc outside of the whole powerlevel bs is definitely decent if a bit of a rebranding, imo especially the setup of the Android arc doesn't make much sense. Trunks comes a bit out of nowhere and feels really inconsequential and if it was so easy to develop the technology to make a bunch of nobodies far surpass Freeza, who is supposed to be one of the strongest beings in the universe how come nobody did it before? The RR is a bunch of idiots up to this point. A lot of the arc is really random.
Like we have a similar setup for the current DB:S arc and imo it's way better done and still the weakest setup in super.
But I agree that DB didn't spiral into awfulness and never recovered like some others on the list. The fact that it, like OP, doesn't take itself too seriously definitely helps.
|
The problem isn't timeskips per se but that the timeskip is the commonly the moment where the author originally intended the manga to end or hadn't detailed the plot till then. That's why after the timeskip, plots go awry, characters act inconsistently, massive power level occurs and original themes are forgotten. Not saying that is the case in One Piece, but the amount of shounen manga which were about subverting social order and expectations suddenly become the main character fulfilling that social order and expectations is astounding.
|
On July 03 2021 23:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The problem isn't timeskips per se but that the timeskip is the commonly the moment where the author originally intended the manga to end or hadn't detailed the plot till then. That's why after the timeskip, plots go awry, characters act inconsistently, massive power level occurs and original themes are forgotten. Not saying that is the case in One Piece, but the amount of shounen manga which were about subverting social order and expectations suddenly become the main character fulfilling that social order and expectations is astounding.
I havent done Bleach, but, the weird thing about the Naruto timeskip is actually how little Naruto powered up. The whole point was that he was gonna train for 2 years. And he... got taller.
All his actual development was on screen, and that happened at a ridiculous pace. It would have been good, for example, if they had just timeskipped him learning change in chakra nature.
|
On July 03 2021 23:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The problem isn't timeskips per se but that the timeskip is the commonly the moment where the author originally intended the manga to end or hadn't detailed the plot till then. That's why after the timeskip, plots go awry, characters act inconsistently, massive power level occurs and original themes are forgotten. Not saying that is the case in One Piece, but the amount of shounen manga which were about subverting social order and expectations suddenly become the main character fulfilling that social order and expectations is astounding.
I think the problem with one piece is that the world got TOO large and oda has a tendency to still invoke some childish elements into much more serious world/serious stakes. He also wants to shows us what's going on at the moment by writing 5-6 pages on o'tama lol. One piece was great when world was small and oda focused on nitty gritty stuff like the strawhats and interesting characters. There are just too many characters and too many plots to resolve at this moment. Time skip wasn't necessarily the problem, i think oda failed to adjust to his growing story. He had to start introducing more deaths and progress much faster. People may say that one piece would be straying away from its shonen trope but the audience matured in the past 10+ years and people just want to see what the hell one piece is and etc.
|
On July 04 2021 05:20 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2021 23:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The problem isn't timeskips per se but that the timeskip is the commonly the moment where the author originally intended the manga to end or hadn't detailed the plot till then. That's why after the timeskip, plots go awry, characters act inconsistently, massive power level occurs and original themes are forgotten. Not saying that is the case in One Piece, but the amount of shounen manga which were about subverting social order and expectations suddenly become the main character fulfilling that social order and expectations is astounding. I havent done Bleach, but, the weird thing about the Naruto timeskip is actually how little Naruto powered up. The whole point was that he was gonna train for 2 years. And he... got taller. All his actual development was on screen, and that happened at a ridiculous pace. It would have been good, for example, if they had just timeskipped him learning change in chakra nature.
I think the first two-three arcs of bleach are pretty good and worth reading. Basically everything until the end of the Shinigami arc is a very good shonen manga and it's really well drawn, artistically Kubo was leagues ahead of his colleagues until he lost motivation. But once people physically ascend to the sky in beams of light it's time to stop.
IIRC Naruto's powerup was mainly releasing more fox power, but it was made pretty clear pretty early that he couldn't control it, while Sasuke basically powered up to the point where he could beat people who beat the kazekage.
But I definitely agree with Dangermousecatdog that Naruto pre-timeskipped seemed a lot better planned out and Kishi likely only initially mapped out until valley of the end 1 and then had some rough ideas and ran out of these after Itachi's death at the latest. Timeskips often mark a closure of sorts, so I wouldn't be surprised either if quite often it also marked the end of pre-planned content.
It's probably one of the reasons monthly releases tend to be more stable when it comes to quality of storywriting, they have enough time to plan ahead.
|
On July 04 2021 07:22 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2021 23:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The problem isn't timeskips per se but that the timeskip is the commonly the moment where the author originally intended the manga to end or hadn't detailed the plot till then. That's why after the timeskip, plots go awry, characters act inconsistently, massive power level occurs and original themes are forgotten. Not saying that is the case in One Piece, but the amount of shounen manga which were about subverting social order and expectations suddenly become the main character fulfilling that social order and expectations is astounding. I think the problem with one piece is that the world got TOO large and oda has a tendency to still invoke some childish elements into much more serious world/serious stakes. He also wants to shows us what's going on at the moment by writing 5-6 pages on o'tama lol. One piece was great when world was small and oda focused on nitty gritty stuff like the strawhats and interesting characters. There are just too many characters and too many plots to resolve at this moment. Time skip wasn't necessarily the problem, i think oda failed to adjust to his growing story. He had to start introducing more deaths and progress much faster. People may say that one piece would be straying away from its shonen trope but the audience matured in the past 10+ years and people just want to see what the hell one piece is and etc.
I actually agree with that. And to add more, I'd compare it to ASOIAF.
IMO, Martin has the exact same problem, and that's why he lost motivation/hasn't been writing at the same pace he has for the previous books (bar aDwD).
Universe got reaaaaaally big, lots of plots revolving around things centralised in King's Landing, some POV characters. Then, action, action, POV characters move a lot, they end up to new shores, meaning more subplots. Meanwhile, no more POV char at some places but you still have to tell what's happening there cause it's important to plot/subplot. So, more POV char, meaning more plots, more places to tell things, again, we've gone full circle.
Naration is quite different in OP, so the matter obviously doesn't have the same roots, but still, universe got big and it ends up causing some problems.
What I wonder is how it's due to the author actually trying to satisfy fans' expectation, ending up developing some plot points that wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
|
France7248 Posts
|
what the hell is yamato supposed to be? please dont be a nine tailed fox
|
I think that might be too much on the nose. She looks like a Mink now.
|
On July 16 2021 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell is yamato supposed to be? please dont be a nine tailed fox
She's gonna focus all her Haki in a ball in front of her face, eat it and then fire a beam.
Considering the horns and assuming that Kaido isn't the reason for them it might be a deer zoan fruit. The nose fits too. Her tail is kinda too long for that though.
But I agree that it looks a lot like the Mink moon transformation with these cloud-like things streaming off her shoulders and her arms.
|
On July 16 2021 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell is yamato supposed to be? please dont be a nine tailed fox
One of Blackbeard's crew actually already has that fruit basically.
It's gotta be some sort of mythical creature but I have no idea.
|
On July 16 2021 21:41 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2021 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell is yamato supposed to be? please dont be a nine tailed fox One of Blackbeard's crew actually already has that fruit basically. It's gotta be some sort of mythical creature but I have no idea.
what? did i miss something? dont remember nine tailed fox being introduced as a fruit so far
|
Isnt it a mythcial Chinese deer creature?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
