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On June 24 2019 21:09 Archeon wrote: That smile only produces dinosaurs is a bit boring though, since that reduces the number of things they can do instead of increasing them. It doesn't. The only dinosaur users we've seen so far have all eaten actual DFs, not SMILE.
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Zoan fruits in general are boring. Sure you get some creativity like "pasta machine" but that's the exception, not the rule. Usually it's just a physical buff. Logias are even worse though, where you just become mud or some shit. Paramecia is where it's at.
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United States97245 Posts
Like I mentioned earlier the impressiveness of zoansnwas pretty much neutered by “normal” bodied humans performing super human feats. One of the things saving zoans before was the ability of some to fly but even people like sanji can more or less fly now so they don’t even have that. Marco’s regen and Kaido being an op giant fucking dragon is about all I have going for them rn
TLDR zoans aren’t worth giving up your ability to swim in the OP world
Edit: the human human fruits seem overall more useful among the zoans too
edit 2: I think Minks also make zoans look even worse than before too. Minks are basically already the hybrid form which is the alleged "strongest" zoan form but then they have Sulong and Electro on top of that hybrid form leaving Zoans further behind
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On June 26 2019 11:08 Shellshock wrote: Like I mentioned earlier the impressiveness of zoansnwas pretty much neutered by “normal” bodied humans performing super human feats. One of the things saving zoans before was the ability of some to fly but even people like sanji can more or less fly now so they don’t even have that. Marco’s regen and Kaido being an op giant fucking dragon is about all I have going for them rn
TLDR zoans aren’t worth giving up your ability to swim in the OP world
Edit: the human human fruits seem overall more useful among the zoans too
edit 2: I think Minks also make zoans look even worse than before too. Minks are basically already the hybrid form which is the alleged "strongest" zoan form but then they have Sulong and Electro on top of that hybrid form leaving Zoans further behind
the power creep is real
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On June 26 2019 11:08 Shellshock wrote: Like I mentioned earlier the impressiveness of zoansnwas pretty much neutered by “normal” bodied humans performing super human feats. One of the things saving zoans before was the ability of some to fly but even people like sanji can more or less fly now so they don’t even have that. Marco’s regen and Kaido being an op giant fucking dragon is about all I have going for them rn
TLDR zoans aren’t worth giving up your ability to swim in the OP world
Edit: the human human fruits seem overall more useful among the zoans too
edit 2: I think Minks also make zoans look even worse than before too. Minks are basically already the hybrid form which is the alleged "strongest" zoan form but then they have Sulong and Electro on top of that hybrid form leaving Zoans further behind See the thing is, by that logic Devil fruits in general are kinda shit. Characters like Garp, Vergo, Mihawk, and Rayleigh are all crazy powerful AND can swim. Zoans, like you said, used to give you super strength but now you can just get super strength naturally. Logias used to give you immunity to physical attacks, but now that's negated by haki. And even Paramecias which are usually creative are most of the time just average. You obviously have exceptions like Law's Ope Ope no mi which allows you to do interesting things outside of battle. However, looking at something like Bellamy's Bane Bane no mi which just allows him to jump quickly or Mr. 2's Supa Supa no mi which allows him to turn his body into iron... well you can do all that shit with training and haki.
Notice how Big Mom's fruit powers just enabled her to instantly kill weaklings and how she relied on her physical strength to fight serious opponents? Notice how Kaido turned back into his human form to one-shot Luffy? Notice how all of Whitebeard's earthquake shock waves relied on his physical strength and could probably have been accomplished with an air slash like Mihawk? The Yonku don't even rely on their Devil Fruits that much. Blackbeard's the exception but the most use for his fruit is absorbing other people's devil fruits outside of combat.
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United States97245 Posts
Yes I would say as we’ve gone further into the story devil fruits as a whole are less impressive. It’s all about Haki now
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Austria24413 Posts
Kind of obvious to me that Oda hadn't thought of Haki until quite late on. When Blackbeard's fruit is first introduced, one of the reasons he cites for wanting that particular fruit is being able to touch Logia users who "rely too much on their abilities". Ace is really surprised when BB touches him, too.
I guess the concept of Haki was necessary as Logias would just be impossible to beat otherwise (unless you had specific advantages like Luffy vs Enel or Akainu vs Ace), but it has spiraled out of control a bit to the point where it does seem like most fruits are really underwhelming unless they're useful outside of fights, or provide some advantage in them that Haki doesn't.
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We'll see though. This is gonna be a Zoan focused arc after the really Paramecia focused Whole Cake Island. Oda is gonna have to come up with something to make them enticing. There's got to be a reason Kaido wants to have a full crew of people with the shittiest DF type with the least variety after all. Obviously Queen doesn't get to show much against Big Mom here, but maybe we'll see something cool later.
Regarding Haki, it's pretty unclear to me when he came up with armament. The other haki types are fairly obvious and Haki was first used as a term in Jaya.
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On June 23 2019 03:41 Olli wrote: Turns out I was right about Brachiosauri
What about now. Did that beautiful dive impress you? He learned from the best diver around (Kaido).
And Hyogoro and Luffy's antics are great.
On June 28 2019 02:32 Olli wrote: Kind of obvious to me that Oda hadn't thought of Haki until quite late on. When Blackbeard's fruit is first introduced, one of the reasons he cites for wanting that particular fruit is being able to touch Logia users who "rely too much on their abilities". Ace is really surprised when BB touches him, too.
I guess the concept of Haki was necessary as Logias would just be impossible to beat otherwise (unless you had specific advantages like Luffy vs Enel or Akainu vs Ace), but it has spiraled out of control a bit to the point where it does seem like most fruits are really underwhelming unless they're useful outside of fights, or provide some advantage in them that Haki doesn't.
I mean Blackbeard's fruit is able to completely nullify someone's powers by touching them which is way better than just being able to hit them.
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Notice how Big Mom's fruit powers just enabled her to instantly kill weaklings and how she relied on her physical strength to fight serious opponents?
what? no when shes serious she goes all out with her sword hat and zeus prometheus supporting
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Austria24413 Posts
Still not impressed. That weight fruit guy from pre-Alabasta could have done that stunt even better!
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On June 28 2019 16:25 Olli wrote: Still not impressed. That weight fruit guy from pre-Alabasta could have done that stunt even better!
was a girl actually
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I mean Logias are still strong as hell. Even more so when they also have strong haki.
Paramecia are hit or miss and Zoans aren't as strong it seems unless they are one of the rare ones.
Devil fruits are still strong and most of the top power characters have or had one.
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Austria24413 Posts
On June 28 2019 16:34 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 16:25 Olli wrote: Still not impressed. That weight fruit guy from pre-Alabasta could have done that stunt even better! was a girl actually
Oh you're right. Was that Miss Sunday? Man that was a long time ago.
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Retcon's and the like are an unfortunate fact of like for manga unfortunately. If you told oda to write a 1000 chapter manga from the start, he probably would have done things very differently.... how could he have known this thing was going to take off in the way that it has...
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Didn't Shanks use Conq Haki in the 1st chapter? I mean Oda clearly didn't have well defined haki system like he does now but he clearly had the concept in mind from the start.
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Miss Valentine. Robin was Miss (All) Sunday.
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She only went up to 10 000 kg and brachiosauri weight 5 times that. So Queen is like five times better than this random Baroque Works agent.
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The big thing with Devil Fruits in general is that it's an "easy" way to get strength. Sure, there's plenty of natural people who are crazy powerful, but they didn't become that powerful by just eating apples. They had to work harder for it, compared to the guy who ate a powerful devil fruit.
In the beginning of OP, the powerful characters were mostly devil fruit users, due to the fact that they had eaten devil fruits. Turns out just eating a devil fruit to gain powers doesn't really cut it.
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Zoan Fruits are about strength augmentation primarily, anyway. You can get strong normally, sure, but having that STR multiplier sure helps
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