EPT[Manga] Naruto - Page 693
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
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Probe.
United States877 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5714 Posts
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MacDo
Canada69 Posts
On April 11 2013 14:27 Probe. wrote: Obviously madaras power up is going to be he is going to be the 10 tails jinchuriki and he's just bull shitting about the infinite tsukyomi. He need a living body to be a jinchuriki. Except if Obito sacrifice himself to resurrect Marada it will not happen. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
On April 11 2013 16:58 krndandaman wrote: man he could continue this series till he dies. i'd imagine you could continue the arc further with naruto's kids or something -_- konohamaru lol | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On April 11 2013 14:49 Zooper31 wrote: If Kishi really isn't planning on ending Naruto anytime soon then the only reasonable thing to assume is that after this war Naruto becomes Hokage and then we get a series based on Naruto when he is an adult. 100% awesome. there was a quote from an interview from kishi about a year ago saying he saw the manga ending in a soon(link to source kishi quote, ofc things probably have changed since then, but i see this current arc ending relatively soon(1-1.5 years. If he makes a series based on naruto's adult life its gona be like dbz GT status.) on another note, the perfect ending for the manga for me would be naruto to sacrifice his life and getting the title of hokage after his death. I think he's going to end up absorbing all the tail beasts and they die with him. I can't see how the ninja nations sustaining peace if there are constant power struggles with each other especially with the power of the beasts. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On April 11 2013 12:20 Dark_Chill wrote: It's really weird. It makes sense for Sasuke to turn good after that story, as he was already turning good because of Itachi and stuff. But for some reason, it also feels really weird for Sasuke to turn good. I can't even explain why, but it's just weird for him to turn good all of a sudden, even if there's been evidence and reasons for this (I know this doesn't make any sense, but for some reason it just feels weird). Total waste of character, in most Shounen scenarios those revenge/evil yet good characters all go to waste, look at all missed opportunities to make Naruto actually a better manga, they missed because Kishimoto didnt have balls (or editor said not to) to pull the trigger. Naruto manga needs to end with a bang and it will be time to start something new Kishimoto, Naruto and Sasuke are the worst parts of "Naruto". | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
Of course it won´t end up like that, the ten-tails will enter its final form and turn the tables again. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On April 11 2013 18:18 Forumite wrote: I wonder if they made a mistake creating drama for this chapter. 4 zombie-hokage, Oro and Sasuke is a scary addition to the Shinobi Alliance, a match for Madara, however the last time we looked in on the battle Naruto used his army-wide chakra-buffs to beat up Madara and Obito. It seemed like Naruto had won the war, so which enemy will the hokage fight? Will they arrive to find that the new generation have allready saved the world? That would be weird. Of course it won´t end up like that, the ten-tails will enter its final form and turn the tables again. They'll find the alliance wiped, Naruto half-dead on the floor. Madara's smirk suddenly disappears when he senses Hashirama. Karin heals Naruto. | ||
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
Madara wins and implements infinite tsukiyomi. Meanwhile Naruto and Hina hookup, and Sasuke and (turn out) Karin. It is peace time because of the moon's eye plan. And for some reason, author suddenly hints or reminds us that Karin is an Uzumaki. So *wink wink*, both Naruto and Sasuke end up with kids with rinnegan potentional. Byakugan is sharigan evolved/devolved anyway right so that means there is the Uchiha mutated genes there somewhere. And the kids grow up, gain rinnegan and see through Madara's moon's eye plan. Madara has basically done what he set out to do, so he has no unfinished business and has moved on. The rinnegan kids then try to learn the kutsu/mad skillz needed to undo the moon's eye plan to free their parents/world. Don't know where the story actually is going to go to but ever since I saw KArin = Uzumaki, this popped into my head. hehe! | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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HyDrA_solic
Portugal491 Posts
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
On April 12 2013 00:05 17Sphynx17 wrote: Well, my twisted take on a possible ending is that... Madara wins and implements infinite tsukiyomi. Meanwhile Naruto and Hina hookup, and Sasuke and (turn out) Karin. It is peace time because of the moon's eye plan. And for some reason, author suddenly hints or reminds us that Karin is an Uzumaki. So *wink wink*, both Naruto and Sasuke end up with kids with rinnegan potentional. Byakugan is sharigan evolved/devolved anyway right so that means there is the Uchiha mutated genes there somewhere. And the kids grow up, gain rinnegan and see through Madara's moon's eye plan. Madara has basically done what he set out to do, so he has no unfinished business and has moved on. The rinnegan kids then try to learn the kutsu/mad skillz needed to undo the moon's eye plan to free their parents/world. Don't know where the story actually is going to go to but ever since I saw KArin = Uzumaki, this popped into my head. hehe! How could characters (the children in your story) created in infinity tsukiyomi, which is controlled by madara, overthrow madara himself? As far as I understand, tsukiyomi is just an infinite sleep / dream. Anything that happens there is only in the minds of the sleepers. Thus, having children there is a lie, and they dont actually exist, and therefore can not overthrow madara in the first place. It relies a lot on what the infinite tsukiyomi exactly is, but from my point of view your story really doesnt make any sense. On April 12 2013 00:32 HyDrA_solic wrote: most amazing ending?: Naruto & co kicks madara's ass, Naruto becomes Hokage and Sasuke becomes his right arm or something, then in the last page of the manga, Madara smiles at the moon, while casting infinite Tsukyomy. Chills.. And also rediculously cliche. | ||
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
On April 12 2013 18:21 []Phase[] wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2013 00:05 17Sphynx17 wrote: Well, my twisted take on a possible ending is that... Madara wins and implements infinite tsukiyomi. Meanwhile Naruto and Hina hookup, and Sasuke and (turn out) Karin. It is peace time because of the moon's eye plan. And for some reason, author suddenly hints or reminds us that Karin is an Uzumaki. So *wink wink*, both Naruto and Sasuke end up with kids with rinnegan potentional. Byakugan is sharigan evolved/devolved anyway right so that means there is the Uchiha mutated genes there somewhere. And the kids grow up, gain rinnegan and see through Madara's moon's eye plan. Madara has basically done what he set out to do, so he has no unfinished business and has moved on. The rinnegan kids then try to learn the kutsu/mad skillz needed to undo the moon's eye plan to free their parents/world. Don't know where the story actually is going to go to but ever since I saw KArin = Uzumaki, this popped into my head. hehe! How could characters (the children in your story) created in infinity tsukiyomi, which is controlled by madara, overthrow madara himself? As far as I understand, tsukiyomi is just an infinite sleep / dream. Anything that happens there is only in the minds of the sleepers. Thus, having children there is a lie, and they dont actually exist, and therefore can not overthrow madara in the first place. It relies a lot on what the infinite tsukiyomi exactly is, but from my point of view your story really doesnt make any sense. On April 12 2013 00:32 HyDrA_solic wrote: most amazing ending?: Naruto & co kicks madara's ass, Naruto becomes Hokage and Sasuke becomes his right arm or something, then in the last page of the manga, Madara smiles at the moon, while casting infinite Tsukyomy. Chills.. And also rediculously cliche. Well, I don't know how you see Infinite Tsukiyomi of the moon's eye plan working but I am more with the idea of it being in a "dream-like state". I mean, if your scenario were true that everyone is asleep, they'd be dead in a month from not eating, or 3 days from not drinking since they are all asleep. Unless Madara is feeding them all somewhat with "the tree of life". As to how that works, I don't even know if it is possible. So my feeling is that it fixates them in a Utopian style mindset. And I am not saying the "kids" will beat Madara but rather they will be the first ones free of the moon's eye plan bec of rinnegan which they potentially can posses. How it activates is through blood combination right? Not some screwed up idea like they have to suffer to unlock the next level. And also, wasn't it mentioned by some resurrected characters that by completing their unfinished business or not having a desire to continue on living would remove them from a resurrected state and "move on" back to the next life. So it is not impossible to think as well that Madara will "move on" after completing his grand plan. So madara doesn't need to be defeated but rather the "kids" find a way to break the tsukiyomi. My two cents. I mean, it was just a thought so no need to be too serious about it. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
On April 12 2013 20:21 17Sphynx17 wrote: Well, I don't know how you see Infinite Tsukiyomi of the moon's eye plan working but I am more with the idea of it being in a "dream-like state". I mean, if your scenario were true that everyone is asleep, they'd be dead in a month from not eating, or 3 days from not drinking since they are all asleep. Unless Madara is feeding them all somewhat with "the tree of life". As to how that works, I don't even know if it is possible. So my feeling is that it fixates them in a Utopian style mindset. And I am not saying the "kids" will beat Madara but rather they will be the first ones free of the moon's eye plan bec of rinnegan which they potentially can posses. How it activates is through blood combination right? Not some screwed up idea like they have to suffer to unlock the next level. And also, wasn't it mentioned by some resurrected characters that by completing their unfinished business or not having a desire to continue on living would remove them from a resurrected state and "move on" back to the next life. So it is not impossible to think as well that Madara will "move on" after completing his grand plan. So madara doesn't need to be defeated but rather the "kids" find a way to break the tsukiyomi. My two cents. I mean, it was just a thought so no need to be too serious about it. Well, if you remember itachi using his hypnosis on kakashi, they can make time seem rediculously long in the dream. I guess I shouldve mentioned this aswell, because thats an important element in my view on the infinite tsukiyomi. This way, people still die from starvation in the real world, but in the dream it seemed as if they lived forever. They could also have children in the dream, but they would never overthrow madara because they would be part of his genjutsu. They would be madaras children, so to speak. Genjutsu focusses on misleading the senses. I dont see why this infinite tsukiyomi cant be just one big genjutsu on everyone. The moon serves as the eyeball, putting everyone under the genjutsu. Creating an utopia would require way more effort than just a genjutsu on everyone. What you could do is make everyone non-violent, and keep the rest of the world as-is, but I dont think that is what madara is going for here. Perhaps this is an idea we could elaborate on aswell. This way, the idea of their 'children' freeing them from the tsukiyomi just doesnt sit right with me, because they ARE the genjutsu : they are created because it makes naruto and the others feel good and 'at home' in this dreamworld, but its all just an elaborate ruse. Last note : I know its 'just a thought', but I like discussing and going over the possibilities. I dont want to make you feel bad with my attempts to stomp your idea in the ground, if that is what you thought I was trying to do here : D. All im looking for is a rational discussion. If you have any other ideas, id gladly hear them so I can formulate my thoughts on them. | ||
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Cirn9
1117 Posts
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
On April 12 2013 20:35 []Phase[] wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2013 20:21 17Sphynx17 wrote: Well, I don't know how you see Infinite Tsukiyomi of the moon's eye plan working but I am more with the idea of it being in a "dream-like state". I mean, if your scenario were true that everyone is asleep, they'd be dead in a month from not eating, or 3 days from not drinking since they are all asleep. Unless Madara is feeding them all somewhat with "the tree of life". As to how that works, I don't even know if it is possible. So my feeling is that it fixates them in a Utopian style mindset. And I am not saying the "kids" will beat Madara but rather they will be the first ones free of the moon's eye plan bec of rinnegan which they potentially can posses. How it activates is through blood combination right? Not some screwed up idea like they have to suffer to unlock the next level. And also, wasn't it mentioned by some resurrected characters that by completing their unfinished business or not having a desire to continue on living would remove them from a resurrected state and "move on" back to the next life. So it is not impossible to think as well that Madara will "move on" after completing his grand plan. So madara doesn't need to be defeated but rather the "kids" find a way to break the tsukiyomi. My two cents. I mean, it was just a thought so no need to be too serious about it. Well, if you remember itachi using his hypnosis on kakashi, they can make time seem rediculously long in the dream. I guess I shouldve mentioned this aswell, because thats an important element in my view on the infinite tsukiyomi. This way, people still die from starvation in the real world, but in the dream it seemed as if they lived forever. They could also have children in the dream, but they would never overthrow madara because they would be part of his genjutsu. They would be madaras children, so to speak. Genjutsu focusses on misleading the senses. I dont see why this infinite tsukiyomi cant be just one big genjutsu on everyone. The moon serves as the eyeball, putting everyone under the genjutsu. Creating an utopia would require way more effort than just a genjutsu on everyone. What you could do is make everyone non-violent, and keep the rest of the world as-is, but I dont think that is what madara is going for here. Perhaps this is an idea we could elaborate on aswell. + Show Spoiler + This way, the idea of their 'children' freeing them from the tsukiyomi just doesnt sit right with me, because they ARE the genjutsu : they are created because it makes naruto and the others feel good and 'at home' in this dreamworld, but its all just an elaborate ruse. Last note : I know its 'just a thought', but I like discussing and going over the possibilities. I dont want to make you feel bad with my attempts to stomp your idea in the ground, if that is what you thought I was trying to do here : D. All im looking for is a rational discussion. If you have any other ideas, id gladly hear them so I can formulate my thoughts on them. Basically on this paragraph is what I think Madara would be focusing on making it since, he doesn't want mass genocide, but is willing to sacrifice a lot to save many. If he did the dream state like Kabuto, well, they're all screwed and Madara didn't finish what he sought out to do which is basically rid war/hatred (which ends up with death). He's moon's eye plan (if you are correct), would mean total genocide of the world population which would mean there is no war, but there is no peace as well as no one is "enjoying it" Note taken on the last paragraph. I thought I was going up against Forik levels of single mindedness that everyone else is wrong, and I didn't want that. =) Lucky, its not and that's that. hehe! Since genjutsu twists the senses, maybe it is not just limited to the physical sense (although I have no sample to back it up). I know its twisting it, but sense of hope/justice (can make you seek vengeance/hate)/accomplishment being removed/blocked.. By removing what makes them "human" which is dreams/drive/goals, nothing would matter. But I know that previous paragraph is too much of a stretch. I really don't know how its planned to work out. Tsukiyomi forces you to choose a path that you don't choose. Like the Kabuto example, the skill requires him to choose not to fight in order for him to free himself from his "bonds" (hence a continous reset until he passes that hurdle). But once he does choose not to fight, he breaks free of tsukiyomi and ends up "changing his destiny". Maybe, what makes the infinite tsukiyomi, infinite is that when you are confronted with a choice to kill/not to kill, tsukiyomi will activate on you (as a person), and you are stuck in a loop if you choose to kill. You break free of tsukiyomi once you choose not to kill but once you free ourself, you see the moon again and hence, tsukiyomi is repeatedly cast on you. The only concern then is the choice of point a, b and c right? Since that's the messed up logic of tsukiyomi. A and b are what you are normally going to do, but a to c is what you are being forced to choose. Don;t know if that makes sense. haha! | ||
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b3n3tt3
595 Posts
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
On April 12 2013 21:02 17Sphynx17 wrote: Basically on this paragraph is what I think Madara would be focusing on making it since, he doesn't want mass genocide, but is willing to sacrifice a lot to save many. If he did the dream state like Kabuto, well, they're all screwed and Madara didn't finish what he sought out to do which is basically rid war/hatred (which ends up with death). He's moon's eye plan (if you are correct), would mean total genocide of the world population which would mean there is no war, but there is no peace as well as no one is "enjoying it" Note taken on the last paragraph. I thought I was going up against Forik levels of single mindedness that everyone else is wrong, and I didn't want that. =) Lucky, its not and that's that. hehe! Since genjutsu twists the senses, maybe it is not just limited to the physical sense (although I have no sample to back it up). I know its twisting it, but sense of hope/justice (can make you seek vengeance/hate)/accomplishment being removed/blocked.. By removing what makes them "human" which is dreams/drive/goals, nothing would matter. But I know that previous paragraph is too much of a stretch. I really don't know how its planned to work out. Tsukiyomi forces you to choose a path that you don't choose. Like the Kabuto example, the skill requires him to choose not to fight in order for him to free himself from his "bonds" (hence a continous reset until he passes that hurdle). But once he does choose not to fight, he breaks free of tsukiyomi and ends up "changing his destiny". Maybe, what makes the infinite tsukiyomi, infinite is that when you are confronted with a choice to kill/not to kill, tsukiyomi will activate on you (as a person), and you are stuck in a loop if you choose to kill. You break free of tsukiyomi once you choose not to kill but once you free ourself, you see the moon again and hence, tsukiyomi is repeatedly cast on you. The only concern then is the choice of point a, b and c right? Since that's the messed up logic of tsukiyomi. A and b are what you are normally going to do, but a to c is what you are being forced to choose. Don;t know if that makes sense. haha! Alright, I definatly agree on the genocide part. While I could go on about this abit longer, ill put it in spoiler since its an unlikely scenario. + Show Spoiler + I could for example say that humans are going to go extinct at some point no matter what, if not by madara, it could be by the sun fading or something like that or *implement random doomsday scenario here*, and that madara is simply stretching the awareness of time of the current people of the narutoverse (as in making them feel like they are living a lifetime while only asleep for a few days). Madara realises that people are going to die, but he simply wants peace in the dream which basically feels a lifetime long. But since the obvious unavoidable death of all humans, it seems unlikely that this is indeed all there is to it. Since genjutsu twists the senses, maybe it is not just limited to the physical sense (although I have no sample to back it up). I know its twisting it, but sense of hope/justice (can make you seek vengeance/hate)/accomplishment being removed/blocked.. By removing what makes them "human" which is dreams/drive/goals, nothing would matter. This is purely speculation and maybe too far-fetched, but at this point we are going to need some 'out there' ideas to save infinite tsukiyomi : we simply have not enough information to work with here. What you suggested here still seems like a plausible thing. Im thinking something along the lines of personality change : Madara keeps the world intact, but manipulates the senses and the brain of his victims in such a way that there is no more incentive for war. Obviously they arent very 'free', but that is ofcourse the whole point. The other shinobi are fighting for their freedom here. Now, if I may make a prediction : either the infinite tsukiyomi is going to be stopped completely before it can take its full effect, or it is going to activate, but is going to be stopped from inside or outside somehow, before we can even see all the details of it. Basically I think the author isnt going to bother working the whole thing out. This way the 'inevitable genocide' isnt going to even come in to play : they'll be genjutsu'd, but they'll stop it before anything happens to their real bodies (if we are talking about our standard genjutsu itachi-kakashi here). This way, kishimoto wont have to bother with explaining the whole thing either. Not that I want to underestimate him that badly... but I kind of am xD. I doubt he will work out this concept very deeply. We'll just have to see I guess. That is also why I still stand by my itachi-like genjutsu idea : it's easy for your standard shonen-reader to understand, and even though it doesnt work out when you start getting into the details, you can still solve it by ending the genjutsu prematurely. Lastly, on the Kabuto idea : + Show Spoiler + I always thought the genjutsu on kabuto felt really confusing and counter-intuitive. You 'force' him to take a certain path, what you basically can do with a standard genjutsu? And what prevents the victim from changing his views and actions again afterwards? Sounds like pretty big BS to me, and asspulled just for the sake of having a new spell in the universe. Take my opinion on this with a grain of salt however : I havent really looked into what exactly happened there, so it is likely im missing some key elements there. Edit : semi-ninja : On April 12 2013 21:20 b3n3tt3 wrote: If madara somehow can make Infinite Tsukuyomi perform a similar genjutsu to shisui's MS, then it would be perfect for him. People would be under the genjutsu without them knowing it. Perfect illusion / Ideal utopian world / communist government with madara as its dictator This could work in a similar way as the 'personality change' I described. They all seem plausible ideas. | ||
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