EPTWhat do i expect, still the shitty writing.
[Manga] Naruto - Page 680
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
What do i expect, still the shitty writing. | ||
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ecstazy
Russian Federation59 Posts
On March 27 2013 21:34 TealHorseman wrote: What you call monarchy is strictly heriditary monarchy. In an elective monarchy the leader is elected and when the society gets too big for everyone to vote the monarch is elected by nobility or local representatives. Just like Danzo was chosen like you pointed out. And Tsunade also went though the same process of being taken into consideration and then allowed into power. The latest chapters of the manga implies Hashirama was also chosen by the people. Also Sarutobi wasn't chosen by Hashirama, he was chosen by Tobirama. And here is the time to plug in that it's not uncommon for an elective monarchy to become a heriditary monarchy over time. They don't chose the strongest shinobi to be hokage - Kakashi was considered to be the next one after Danzo while I think it's pretty clear he's no match for Naruto and probably many other. Also a dictatorship would imply that the leader is above the rule of law and he has absolute power while in the Narutoverse I think it's more power within the confines of the established rules - which is pretty much a sign of an elective monarchy or a democracy. Now that I checked wikipedia, yeah you are right about there being two types of monarchy. According to anime Sarutobi was chosen by both Hashirama and Tobirama (that's one of sarutobi's last memories before his death) - i don't know if that same scene is in the manga though, so you could be right. I didn't say they chose simply the strongest. They choose the strongest sensible shinobi. Also kakashi is very strong (kamui is overpowered). Author doesn't tell us many precise details about politics, but I never saw the council remove a leader and while the council often disagreed with tsunade she seemed to have still done what she wanted and was fine. At least to me it looks like the system relies very heavily on the leader being sensible. Although I agree that the power of kages is not absolute (although it would be a massive problem to disagree with them because of their ninja power). | ||
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Fulla
United Kingdom519 Posts
Now he will ALSO go gain the kyuibi and ends up still loosing. Man Madara is such fail  Itachi is the BOSS!!! | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6271 Posts
On March 27 2013 22:23 Fulla wrote: So Madara lost with EMS already. Now he will ALSO go gain the kyuibi and ends up still loosing. Man Madara is such fail Itachi is the BOSS!!! Itachi would get penetrated harder by Hashirama's wood than Madara. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On March 27 2013 22:13 ecstazy wrote: Now that I checked wikipedia, yeah you are right about there being two types of monarchy. According to anime Sarutobi was chosen by both Hashirama and Tobirama (that's one of sarutobi's last memories before his death) - i don't know if that same scene is in the manga though, so you could be right. I didn't say they chose simply the strongest. They choose the strongest sensible shinobi. Also kakashi is very strong (kamui is overpowered). Author doesn't tell us many precise details about politics, but I never saw the council remove a leader and while the council often disagreed with tsunade she seemed to have still done what she wanted and was fine. At least to me it looks like the system relies very heavily on the leader being sensible. Although I agree that the power of kages is not absolute (although it would be a massive problem to disagree with them because of their ninja power). you are wrong, the kage is always the strongest person in the village, just because Konohais the "good" village they have good examples of strong and sensible people ( pretty much all 5 of them with the exeption of tobirama maybe) but that doesn't apply to the other villages. current and former raikage and tsuchikage, gaara's father and the former mizukage ( though controlled by madara) are far from sensible, it's always the strongest person. Also Sarutobi was officially chosen by Tobirama as sandaime when they were ambushed by cloud ninjas, Hashi was dead at that point. Never use Anime as reference pls  | ||
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ecstazy
Russian Federation59 Posts
On March 27 2013 22:40 AsnSensation wrote: you are wrong, the kage is always the strongest person in the village, just because Konohais the "good" village they have good examples of strong and sensible people ( pretty much all 5 of them with the exeption of tobirama maybe) but that doesn't apply to the other villages. current and former raikage and tsuchikage, gaara's father and the former mizukage ( though controlled by madara) are far from sensible, it's always the strongest person. Also Sarutobi was officially chosen by Tobirama as sandaime when they were ambushed by cloud ninjas, Hashi was dead at that point. Never use Anime as reference pls Naruto was stronger than Danzo when Danzo was chosen. If Danzo didn't rig the election, it would have been Kakashi who is chosen - also weaker than Naruto at the time. It's not always the strongest person. Raikage and tsuchikage are not that insensible. They just put interest of their villages far above the interest of the world as a whole - which was what their job is all about anyway. Of course they are not "perfect" like say the First Hokage, but they are not inadequate. Their biju problems came from their desire to tame the beasts for the good of their villages. but at the end they just screwed up a lot of lives (except the eight-tales - that one worked great in the end). | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
The kage are probably picked through a variety of different ways. The elders and other important people just probably try to think of someone who will be a good leader, which includes like how strong they are, how popular they want, etc. Obviously in a couple cases it becomes hereditary-- a Kage's kid is obviously (probably) going to be pretty strong and have leadership qualities eg A and Gaara. On the other hand, maybe someone else will pop up that will be a good leader. Danzo rigged the election pretty obviously. Kakashi well.... IDK why the heck anyone would think he would be a Hokage. Sure he got more powerful over time and *might* be one of the strongest shinobi in the village (which is actually kind of sad), but he couldn't hold a candle to any of the other Kage. Gai, Lee, Naruto, Sakura and Tsunade are basically the only strong ninja in Konoha. :/ | ||
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derpface
Sweden925 Posts
On March 28 2013 02:22 ticklishmusic wrote: Harashima is a fucking baller. A fucking baller. The kage are probably picked through a variety of different ways. The elders and other important people just probably try to think of someone who will be a good leader, which includes like how strong they are, how popular they want, etc. Obviously in a couple cases it becomes hereditary-- a Kage's kid is obviously (probably) going to be pretty strong and have leadership qualities eg A and Gaara. On the other hand, maybe someone else will pop up that will be a good leader. Danzo rigged the election pretty obviously. Kakashi well.... IDK why the heck anyone would think he would be a Hokage. Sure he got more powerful over time and *might* be one of the strongest shinobi in the village (which is actually kind of sad), but he couldn't hold a candle to any of the other Kage. Gai, Lee, Naruto, Sakura and Tsunade are basically the only strong ninja in Konoha. :/ Shikamaru for next Hokage would be great. | ||
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Eshra
France1009 Posts
Gai, Lee, Naruto, Sakura and Tsunade are basically the only strong ninja in Konoha. :/ Sakura ? Really ? | ||
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DODswe4
Sweden2157 Posts
On March 28 2013 02:22 ticklishmusic wrote: Gai, Lee, Naruto, Sakura and Tsunade are basically the only strong ninja in Konoha. :/ Kakashi is on the same level as Gai, stronger then Lee and Sakura... | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
itll be naruto I WANT TO BECOME HOKAGE | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6271 Posts
On March 27 2013 22:13 ecstazy wrote: Now that I checked wikipedia, yeah you are right about there being two types of monarchy. According to anime Sarutobi was chosen by both Hashirama and Tobirama (that's one of sarutobi's last memories before his death) - i don't know if that same scene is in the manga though, so you could be right. I didn't say they chose simply the strongest. They choose the strongest sensible shinobi. Also kakashi is very strong (kamui is overpowered). Author doesn't tell us many precise details about politics, but I never saw the council remove a leader and while the council often disagreed with tsunade she seemed to have still done what she wanted and was fine. At least to me it looks like the system relies very heavily on the leader being sensible. Although I agree that the power of kages is not absolute (although it would be a massive problem to disagree with them because of their ninja power). To give some clarity in this argument I looked some stuff up on the naruto wiki: Way they choose the hokage: Generally, the new Hokage is selected by the current Hokage upon their retirement, but if the old Hokage dies or is incapacitated before being able to do so, the Fire Daimyō will appoint a Hokage Candidate upon the recommendation of the Konoha council and the Fire Daimyō council. Afterwards, the candidate will need to be approved by the jōnin of the village to become officially Hokage. source General info about village heads: The village head (里長, sato-osa) is the highest-ranking, and usually the most powerful, shinobi of a village and the administrative and military leader and main representative of that village. Although each village usually has only one village head, the actual day-to-day governing is generally shared with various councillors and top-ranking shinobi. Each village has their own way of deciding on the village leader, using methods as diverse as democratic elections and hereditary succession. The head of shinobi villages of the Five Great Shinobi Countries wield the greatest power of the village heads and are particularly respected. They are the only village heads allowed to bear the name of Kage. source So yeah hokage definetly isn't democratically elected except maybe Hashirama and the village head is usually the strongest although there are obviously other things to consider like age and intellect. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On March 27 2013 20:03 Confuse wrote: Tobi's reason for being disliked is purely based on his misunderstanding of the shonen power of friendship conquering all, he bases his decision on scientific fact that the uchiha have dangerous brain chemistry when confronted with trauma. i dont hate him but he should recognize shounen friendship power  So true. Tobirama is darn near entirely stone-cold logic. The only problem with that is the aforementioned shonen power of friendship. On March 27 2013 22:30 RvB wrote: Itachi would get penetrated harder by Hashirama's wood than Madara. Itachi was dying from ninja AIDS for pretty much forever and actually had below average stamina. Furthermore, even though Itachi was almost dead from the aforementioned disease and was almost blind and was holding back, Sasuke still couldn't defeat him in their final battle. Though Itachi technically hasn't had much in the way of real results, at least when compared to the very best ninja (like Hashirama or Pain), what he has managed to do despite his predicament is akin to a quadriplegic winning gold in a dozen different Olympic events. So, there's a whole lot of "what-ifs" that one can apply to Itachi. That said, an Itachi that wasn't utterly gimped versus Hashirama "Ohjesusisthisguyevenhumanahhhhhh" is definitely one of the few fights I wouldn't immediately call in favor of Itachi. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 28 2013 05:31 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: So true. Tobirama is darn near entirely stone-cold logic. The only problem with that is the aforementioned shonen power of friendship. Itachi was dying from ninja AIDS for pretty much forever and actually had below average stamina. Furthermore, even though Itachi was almost dead from the aforementioned disease and even though he was holding back, Sasuke still couldn't defeat him in their final battle. Though Itachi technically hasn't had much in the way of real results, at least when compared to the very best ninja (like Hashirama or Pain), what he has managed to do despite his predicament is akin to a quadriplegic winning gold in a dozen different Olympic events. So, there's a whole lot of "what-ifs" that one can apply to Itachi. That said, an Itachi that wasn't utterly gimped versus Hashirama "Ohjesusisthisguyevenhumanahhhhhh" is definitely one of the few fights I wouldn't immediately call in favor of Itachi. Itachi did go all out, he had to in order to force Orochimaru out | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On March 28 2013 05:50 Forikorder wrote: Itachi did go all out, he had to in order to force Orochimaru out Yeah, but he wasn't trying to kill Sasuke. He wanted to beat Sasuke in a battle of stamina (Itachi's biggest weakness), take out freaking Orochimaru, and then seal an amaterasu on Sasuke. Which he (somehow) did. | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11077 Posts
On March 28 2013 02:22 ticklishmusic wrote: Harashima is a fucking baller. A fucking baller. The kage are probably picked through a variety of different ways. The elders and other important people just probably try to think of someone who will be a good leader, which includes like how strong they are, how popular they want, etc. Obviously in a couple cases it becomes hereditary-- a Kage's kid is obviously (probably) going to be pretty strong and have leadership qualities eg A and Gaara. On the other hand, maybe someone else will pop up that will be a good leader. Danzo rigged the election pretty obviously. Kakashi well.... IDK why the heck anyone would think he would be a Hokage. Sure he got more powerful over time and *might* be one of the strongest shinobi in the village (which is actually kind of sad), but he couldn't hold a candle to any of the other Kage. Gai, Lee, Naruto, Sakura and Tsunade are basically the only strong ninja in Konoha. :/ Kakashi has all these nominal statements that he's strong. It's just htat Kishi needs to constantly weaken him so he doesn't outshine Naruto. I believe atleast in the anime when he's training Sasuke. In the scene where he's climbing the cliff they mention that he can open up the same number of gates as Gai. This is untop of his insane jutsu arsenal (which is useless now but anyway)... So in a confusing way it makes sense to put Kakashi as one of the strongest ninjas around period. His main strength being incredible planning and a rare sharingan while every other Kage seems to have some sort of bloodline limit. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2550 Posts
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aeroblaster
United States422 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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