EPT[Manga] Naruto - Page 515
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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Sennin
Belgium50 Posts
And Kagami being Tobi is just the same as "random Uchiha #314" since he has close to no development other then just being there. I honestly don't care really, I'd rather have him be "nobody" that would fit better with Naruto's theme (one of the many): Naruto wants to be acknowlegded and fights for his identity of Naruto Uzumaki instead of the kyuubi. Tobi doesn't give a shit, he just carries out the plan. | ||
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
On August 23 2012 03:12 Dac wrote: I do agree. It is easier to make up an random story than one that has been perfectly planned for or atleast matches the story from before. I doubt he planned this story when he came up with kakashi, maybe he had a very vague outlined but not this.... that was like what 8 years ago? Well, think about it this way: (1) Kakashi was part of Team Minato. All teams in Konoha have a leader and 3 subordinates, so Kakashi had 2 teammates. Unlike most other adult ninjas, however, Kakashi's teammates never appeared in the story, so Kishi had to have planned from the start that they died as kids. On top of that, Kishi gave Kakashi a sharingan, so he had to have some sort of back story for where he got it from. If you take both of these into account, it's likely that Kishi planned out the whole Obito story years and years ago. (2) Then you've got the Akatsuki. They've been showing up in the series for quite a long time, and it's safe to assume Kishi had a general plan for them way before he introduced them. They've been trying to kidnap the tailed beasts forever, so there had to be a ringleader (Tobi) with a plan for what to do with the beasts once they were caught. (3) Finally, you've got this whole Madara Uchiha + Rinnegan business, where Madara didn't really die at the end of his battle with Hashirama, but actually gained the Rinnegan; Madara knew who Tobi was before he died; Madara knew who Nagato was before he died; and Tobi is apparently the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan. So, long story short, it's unlikely that Kishi hasn't known who Tobi is for a very, very, long time. Based on the three observations above, Tobi is too intricately woven into too many parts of the story for Kishi to be coming up with this shit on the spot. He's probably known for 7 or 8 years, maybe even 9. Remember the Akatsuki first showed up in 2003, and Shippuden has been going strong since 2005. That's why I'm excited to see the explanation, especially if it's Obito. There will probably have been lots of hints in the story for the past decade that we missed, but that will make sense once we have an explanation. And since Tobi was around when Madara was still alive, the explanation should also help solve the mystery of why Madara didn't die in his battle with the 1st, how he get the Rinnegan, and how Nagato fits into all of this. | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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Sennin
Belgium50 Posts
- Motive: what motive would obito have to do all of this, he was a pretty happy guy. He would have died peacefully with no regret. If Kishi is going to explain this we're gonna have to take another 5 chapter detour down memory lane. And I'm sorry but that's just anticlimactic at the highpoint of this war. - Power: he wasn't really talented, how could he get to Minato level in a few years time seeing as how he fought pretty equal with him. Also he seemed a lot older then. His MS can only get him so far. | ||
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
On August 23 2012 04:12 Sennin wrote: Courthead, I think you're giving Kishi to much credit here. If it's Obito I'm just gonna be dissapointed since there's just to many issues with it story wise and pacing wise in the future to explain all of this: - Motive: what motive would obito have to do all of this, he was a pretty happy guy. He would have died peacefully with no regret. If Kishi is going to explain this we're gonna have to take another 5 chapter detour down memory lane. And I'm sorry but that's just anticlimactic at the highpoint of this war. - Power: he wasn't really talented, how could he get to Minato level in a few years time seeing as how he fought pretty equal with him. Also he seemed a lot older then. His MS can only get him so far. The main fact that everyone is forgetting is that the resurrected Madara Uchiha knows who Tobi is, which means that Tobi was alive before Madara died. Madara died long before Kakashi, Rin, and Obito should have been born, so Tobi would have to be much older than Obito appeared to be. In that case, if Tobi really was Obito, then Obito was merely a disguise to begin with. Either a genjutsu, or an advanced clone, or a body swap of some kind. It would make sense as a great way for Tobi to get recon on Konoha. Also, since Kakashi has the Mangekyo, but it's never been explained how he got it, it would make sense that Obito's eyes already had that power by the time that Kakashi took one. | ||
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Sennin
Belgium50 Posts
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shark.
593 Posts
On August 23 2012 04:12 Sennin wrote: - Power: he wasn't really talented, how could he get to Minato level in a few years time seeing as how he fought pretty equal with him. Also he seemed a lot older then. His MS can only get him so far. I think you are forgetting what has happened in the time skip and throughout Naruto. Susake went from toe to toe with naruto to almost being a match for itachi in the space of three years and Obito awakened the Sharingan with 2 tomoe( i know that doesn't mean much but still). Plus If you look at the databooks Obito was more skilled then naruto and sakura, and even with sasuke at the same age plus was chunin. I guess what im trying to say is that it is not completely impossible for Obito to have progressed as much as he had especially if someone like madara would be teaching him. I Don't believe that Tobi is Obito but you can't say he couldn't power up like he did as naruto went from complete and utter noob at the beginning to mastering sage mode later across like 5 chapters or something? Something else though that has bothered me a bit is when the person manipulating the mizukage appears before kisame, he looks actually like madara with the hair and body armour showing in his shadow. So i think maybe madara was alive at that stage to manipulate the mizukage. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
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shark.
593 Posts
On August 23 2012 04:45 Courthead wrote: To be fair, I don't think it's Obito, either. Just someone who stole Obito's eye. But it would be cooler if it was Obito, because then Kishi would have to bust out some awesome explanation. And the fact that his name is Tobi can't just be a coincidence. Well considering he is the completely anonymous(noone apart from probably zetsu knows his true identity) i would have though a name like Tobi would be perfect as it kinda has that normal feel to it other then sharing the type of name other ninja have. | ||
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SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
He is master troll though. I must say. | ||
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Ficetool
Germany165 Posts
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
Since Madara knows who Tobi is, it means that Tobi is old as fuck. He existed long before Obito. That means you don't need any time travel bullshit to explain Obito. If Tobi was Obito, then Obito was just a disguise, or an illusion, or a clone, or a fake/stolen body. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On August 23 2012 05:13 Courthead wrote: Go back and read the chapters where Madara was first summoned with the Impure World Resurrection. His first reaction upon coming back to life was, "That brat Nagato must have resurrected me." (So Madara knows who Nagato is, and Tobi claims to be the one who gave Nagato his Rinnegan which is the only reason he can resurrect people. That implies Madara knows Tobi.) But then Kabuto tells him that it was an Impure World Resurrection. Madara then directly asks Kabuto if he's Tobi's follower. Since Madara knows who Tobi is, it means that Tobi is old as fuck. He existed long before Obito. That means you don't need any time travel bullshit to explain Obito. If Tobi was Obito, then Obito was just a disguise, or an illusion, or a clone, or a fake/stolen body. Well, Madara also "died"/lost to First way before Nagato was born and he knew about him so he has to have gotten some information after he died. So he could also have gotten the information about Tobi that way. But he cannot be Obito. he stated that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Obito was about three years old when the Rinnegan was awakened in Nagato so go figure. | ||
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
On August 23 2012 05:38 Fenrax wrote: Well, Madara also "died"/lost to First way before Nagato was born and he knew about him so he has to have gotten some information after he died. So he could also have gotten the information about Tobi that way. But he cannot be Obito. he stated that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Obito was about three years old when the Rinnegan was awakened in Nagato so go figure. It's already been established that Madara wasn't killed by the First. He used the battle as a chance to capture some of the First's cells, and he continued living for some time before he died. It hasn't been explained how he finally did come to this end, but between his battle with the First and his death, he came to know of Tobi and Nagato. Tobi existed (and, apparently, was already quite powerful) before Obito was born. He could easily be Obito for all the reasons I explained in my last post. The #1 reason I think it's unlikely that Tobi was Obito is that Obito was the 4th Hokage's student, but Tobi seemed to be unaware of the 4th's abilities when he later came to fight him. So, what's more likely is that Tobi is just some guy who stole Obito's eye before it was crushed. | ||
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