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Courthead
United States246 Posts
But whatever. Let's assume that Tobi could match Naruto's speed. Then the others could just aim for Tobi when he tried to materialize to stop Naruto. Even if he used Izanagi, that's just a genjutsu you cast on yourself. It doesn't affect other people. In other words, if Tobi dies, he can use Izanagi to undo it. But it won't affect that fact that Naruto destroyed the Mazou. I'd bet anyone $1 that they're going to use this plan to destroy it in another chapter or two. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
And then on another note, if Tobi does cast that ultimate tsukuyomi the only person who is able to break free would be sasuke. It would be an epic show down between tobi and sasuke. | ||
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
Anyway, we'll see what happens. I still think that Tobi's strength and speed are bullshit, but whatever. It would be an interesting twist if he succeeds in casting Infinite Tsukuyomi but someone stops him after the fact. I think both Sasuke and the resurrected Madara could stop it. And since Orochimaru definitely knows Tobi's plan but doesn't care about the war, I'm sure he's devised a way out of it, too. Also, since Tsukuyomi doesn't work on Jinchuuriki who are friends with their beasts, it shouldn't permanently affect Naruto or Bee, either. That wouldn't have been a problem before, because we assumed the Jinchuuriki would have to die to revive the 10-tails, but now things are different... | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
4th Hokage was able to outhink and outspeed Tobi, Naruto isnt even close to doing that with help | ||
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vanhio
Niue1017 Posts
On July 26 2012 17:13 sharkie wrote: Anyone thinking Naruto is as fast as Minato is a Naruto fanboy 4th Hokage was able to outhink and outspeed Tobi, Naruto isnt even close to doing that with help But now Tobi have rinnegan.. It makes a "little" difference. | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
That's right, 4th was the yellow flash WITHOUT his teleport. | ||
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poorbeggarman
139 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
as wild as this may sound, i see sasuke heading towards a role of batman. before i get flammed, let me warn you, it almost always happens in every good manga / anime. someone gets robbed of a normal child hood or was done injustice, can't seem to cope with the problem so he flaunts justice in exacting his vengeance, only to find the truth and turn around. some random references hiei from yu yu hakusho that guy with the double kodachi in rurouni kenshin vegeta from dbz you name it. i feel sasuke will ultimately find the truth, and help naruto like the end of street fighter. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
On July 27 2012 04:06 rei wrote: i think the word to describe that kind of character is anti-hero. someone who plays the hero's role for self serving reasons yeah but for the greater good in the end, is still a good thing, is it not? i think alot of shounen manga underline this concept, that opposing view points can unite, and i find it never gets old. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Sasuke is not an anti-hero. He has zero moral boundaries, he's perfectly willing to become a mass murderer for completely petty reasons, and his excuses for "revenge" became absurd once he started lumping in uninvolved bystanders. Even if he doesn't go through with any of this, he still has the mentality of a psychopath. However, that's not to say the manga won't give him a cheap redemption. I fully expect Sasuke to have some pathetic epiphany, and then everyone hugs, makes up and forgives him in an instant. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
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RespectedPuddle
80 Posts
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Courthead
United States246 Posts
On July 27 2012 04:43 WolfintheSheep wrote: Anti-heroes work because there is a clear moral line that they refuse to cross. That's what lets you know that they're still inherently good people. Sasuke is not an anti-hero. He has zero moral boundaries, he's perfectly willing to become a mass murderer for completely petty reasons, and his excuses for "revenge" became absurd once he started lumping in uninvolved bystanders. Even if he doesn't go through with any of this, he still has the mentality of a psychopath. However, that's not to say the manga won't give him a cheap redemption. I fully expect Sasuke to have some pathetic epiphany, and then everyone hugs, makes up and forgives him in an instant. Hmm, I doubt it. People tend to forget this because he's such a huge douchebag, but: Sasuke has, so far, not committed any serious atrocities. He joined Akatsuki, but so did Itachi, and he was a good guy. He attacked Bee, but failed to capture and kill him. He attacked the Kage summit, but didn't kill anyone but nameless samurai who'd be easily forgotten. He's even done some good things like killing Deidara, Orochimaru, Zetsu, and helping to stop Kabuto. And he killed Danzo, which is justifiable, because Danzo massacred his entire clan. He als allowed Pain to destroy the Leaf by preventing the frogs from summoning Naruto earlier. Sasuke is a long, long, long, LONG way away from being irredeemable.. My bet is that Sasuke will become a anti-hero. Most nations will still treat him as a wanted criminal, however they will never catch him, and he will use his powers for "good." | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
I'm fairly sure Tobi has to be able to use Mangekyo to cast the ulitmate Tsukuyomi and Izanagi/Izanami can be casted with regular Sharingans. not neccesarily, the Tsukyomi is just some super powerful genjutsu that only Itachi has been shown to cast so theorietically with enough power behind it even Naruto could cast the infinite Tsukyomi hiei from yu yu hakusho what? Hiei is more like the Joker hes evil through and through hes not jsut one of those egotistical "rule/destory the world to prove i can types" that guy with the double kodachi in rurouni kenshin the guy who had a normal childhood just got obsessed with beating Kenshin to prove to the world his subordinates werent freaks who should be thrown away like trash? vegeta from dbz again not a batman Vegeta wasnt really evil he was jsut raised with a different sort of morals, to him killing humans/other species is like us killing animals for fur combine that with Frieza killing his entire race and its natural he had alot of anger to vent and when he met someone who could take all that anger and keep standing he burnt out and took another look at his life none of those guys are like Batman though sasuke included Well, considering Gaara and Nagato got their redemption, nothing would surprise me. I think Sasuke will deal with Madara and/or help against Tobi, and then he'll go on his way. Maybe have a last fight with Naruto to see who's stronger. Redemption or not, I can't see him returning to Konoha. Gaara and Nagato both had extreme personal traumas that led to there actions (Gaaras father repeated assasination attempts and psycological attacks and Hanzos betrayal leading to Nagatos BFF's death) but werent inherently bad people, Gaara tried to make friends with the village children and Nagatos goal was inherently good and the way he started going about it Sasuke did have some early trauma but he never had any redeeming qualities he never really did any good or showed he was good at heart he jsut went about his goal with single minded determination and burnt anyone who tried to get close and was obsessed with himself didn't kill anyone but nameless samurai who'd be easily forgotten ya who cares if he kills someone if there not plot centric -.- he may have failed, but he still tried to capture someone in order to kill that person in a very painful way purely for personal gain (and that personal gain was assistance in slaughtering ever man woman and child related to Konoha) and tried to assasinate the head of a village (Danzo) and anyone who got in his way, and tried to kill the Raikage forcing his arm to be cut off and he killed Danzo, which is justifiable, because Danzo massacred his entire clan. Danzo didnt kill the Uchiha clan, Itachi did because the Uchihas planned to start a civil war with Konoha for no reason which could cause the death of many innocent civilians Danzo was a dick but he saved alot more lives than he cost even his decision to try and stop Naruto from coming to Konoha wasnt a bad one (although it did work out for the better theres no way he could have predicted it) and was one that the other 4 kages would have agreed with (and made the exact same decision locking him in the island turtle) Sasuke hasnt done a single good deed in naruto | ||
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ColdFire89
35 Posts
On July 27 2012 08:54 Courthead wrote: Hmm, I doubt it. People tend to forget this because he's such a huge douchebag, but: Sasuke has, so far, not committed any serious atrocities. He joined Akatsuki, but so did Itachi, and he was a good guy. He attacked Bee, but failed to capture and kill him. He attacked the Kage summit, but didn't kill anyone but nameless samurai who'd be easily forgotten. He's even done some good things like killing Deidara, Orochimaru, Zetsu, and helping to stop Kabuto. And he killed Danzo, which is justifiable, because Danzo massacred his entire clan. He als allowed Pain to destroy the Leaf by preventing the frogs from summoning Naruto earlier. Sasuke is a long, long, long, LONG way away from being irredeemable.. My bet is that Sasuke will become a anti-hero. Most nations will still treat him as a wanted criminal, however they will never catch him, and he will use his powers for "good." I disagree Sasuke has been more then willing to kill for no reason, including former teammates or people trying to help him. Itachi actually killed very few people and would intentionally try to avoid it. If Sasuke is really redeemed it will go against what his character has been building towards for the last 100 manga. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On July 27 2012 09:46 Forikorder wrote: Gaara and Nagato both had extreme personal traumas that led to there actions (Gaaras father repeated assasination attempts and psycological attacks and Hanzos betrayal leading to Nagatos BFF's death) but werent inherently bad people, Gaara tried to make friends with the village children and Nagatos goal was inherently good and the way he started going about it Sasuke did have some early trauma but he never had any redeeming qualities he never really did any good or showed he was good at heart he jsut went about his goal with single minded determination and burnt anyone who tried to get close and was obsessed with himself I'd argue Sasuke's trauma was just as extreme as Gaara's or Nagato's. And Sasuke considered Naruto a friend, he protected Sakura on some occasions, how is that any different from Gaara trying to make friends with the village children? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On July 27 2012 11:10 ColdFire89 wrote: I disagree Sasuke has been more then willing to kill for no reason, including former teammates or people trying to help him. Itachi actually killed very few people and would intentionally try to avoid it. If Sasuke is really redeemed it will go against what his character has been building towards for the last 100 manga. i forgot that he skewered his teamate to kill Danzo and then abandoned said teamate I'd argue Sasuke's trauma was just as extreme as Gaara's or Nagato's. And Sasuke considered Naruto a friend, he protected Sakura on some occasions, how is that any different from Gaara trying to make friends with the village children? he only protected sakura cause she was part of his team Gaara tried to make friends with the village and tried to apologize for hurting the brat despite being isolated by everyone in the village he still tried to reach out and make friends Sasuke is the opposite despite noone in the village hating him and being very popular he still refused to make friends and focused solely on getting revenge | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 27 2012 08:54 Courthead wrote: Hmm, I doubt it. People tend to forget this because he's such a huge douchebag, but: Sasuke has, so far, not committed any serious atrocities. He joined Akatsuki, but so did Itachi, and he was a good guy. He attacked Bee, but failed to capture and kill him. He attacked the Kage summit, but didn't kill anyone but nameless samurai who'd be easily forgotten. He's even done some good things like killing Deidara, Orochimaru, Zetsu, and helping to stop Kabuto. And he killed Danzo, which is justifiable, because Danzo massacred his entire clan. He als allowed Pain to destroy the Leaf by preventing the frogs from summoning Naruto earlier. Sasuke is a long, long, long, LONG way away from being irredeemable.. My bet is that Sasuke will become a anti-hero. Most nations will still treat him as a wanted criminal, however they will never catch him, and he will use his powers for "good." Doesn't matter what he's actually done. What matters is that you've seen through his entire character, and he's a monster who tries to justify horrific acts through some supposed injustice done to him. Compare him to Gaara, who acted monstrous (albeit, only against "acceptable targets" on screen), but when you got a good look inside his character, it was a sympathetic enough excuse that he could be forgiven once his problems were solved. I mean, take one of the most famous Anti-Hero characters, the Punisher. He commits cold-blooded murder, gets revenge, leaves a massive pile of corpses in his wake...but his character is sympathetic. He does wrong for the "right" reasons, and even in the continuity where kills purely out of selfish motivations, it's all against "bad people". Sasuke is nothing like that. Everything he does is for selfish reasons, for self-satisfaction, for personal vendetta...and he doesn't even acknowledge that anything he does is wrong. At the very best, you could argue that he's a pathetically misguided child who can't tell right from wrong. In which case, you could lock him up in an institution for several years until he's fit for interaction with society again. At worst, he's an unrepentant psychopath who can't be trusted with any kind of interaction with any decent people. And once again, I'm not saying that he won't be instantly forgiven. Because I fully expect that he will. | ||
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