EPTWhat Are You Reading 2015 - Page 40
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 18 2015 05:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: High fantasy. Define "mature"? Well in this case not overly concerning itself with problems of adolescents, speaking plainly about sex/violence. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On August 18 2015 07:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: There was very little sex in Wheel of Time and the violence is very much fantasy violence a la Lord of the Rings - humans and wizards killing demons and orcs and monsters. It's not particularly mature or edgy or whatever if that's what you're looking for, it's just super standard high fantasy (indeed probably helped define high fantasy). If you think Lord of the Rings is mature then yea Wheel of Time is mature-ish. More mature than LotR I would say, though probably its direct successor in terms of high fantasy. Not much sex, more internal conflict, but the line between good and evil is only a little fuzzier. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
On August 18 2015 05:18 Redox wrote: I really liked Kingkiller because it seems pretty obvious that he's not telling it exactly like it was. Something's very wrong, which hypes it up for book 3. I think it'd feel pretty bland if you don't ride that vibe, however.Just read the 2 Kingkiller Chronicle books. While it is very well written, I am not really into coming-of-age stories. Read this type of story too often I guess. Also it often reminded me of Anime themes which is not my thing at all. What kind of Fantasy is Wheel of Time? Is it more mature and with broader perspective? If you want something a little more mature, less "standard" and very well written, I'd suggest the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. I just finished the latest extra book in the series, and I really, really like his writing. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but from your statement about Kingkiller, this should be right up your alley. On another note, I just started Queen of Fire (Raven's Shadow #3), and I must say that the difference in writing skill is pretty noticeable. It doesn't help that I forgot basically all the characters, but so far it seems like the first book was the best. As for Dune, I liked the first one, but the others were very.. weird. I think I stopped after the 3rd, as it didn't look like it was going to improve. I moved on to Foundation by Asimov, and that series was good all the way! | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
Rama was a mix of the two, now that I think about it. In all these series, I loved the first one, then was disappointed. Good thing there was Foundation to restore my faith in SciFi series. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
Wheel of Time is written as a high fantasy epos, mixing some coming of age with some swords and sorcery. I wouldn't ever consider him the closest thing to JRRT, but he has definitely defined some of the tropes of modern fantasy writing (such as magic having some system and laws). If what you mean with direct successor is "a mostly original story that builds upon some of the foundations laid out by LotR", I agree. However, both Terry Brooks and David Eddings are far more "successor" in terms of writing a completely shameless LotR rehash and passing it off as novel work. Also, WoT has plenty of sex, it just isn't described particularly graphically. But there is much blushing to be had by the girls involved (and in one book, by Mat). | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9713 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
I'm of the opinion that Speaker surpasses Ender's Game, Xenocide was garbage, and Children of the Mind was a mixture of heavyhanded plot advancement and passable writing. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On August 18 2015 07:47 Pwere wrote: Reading the 2nd and a part of the 3rd in the Ender's Game series left me with the impression that the author was actually bad, but got reeaallly lucky with his first book. Reading 2nd and 3rd Dune gave me the impression that, after a "simple" yet very interesting book, he wanted to flex his writing skill/creativity a lot more, but fell a little short. Rama was a mix of the two, now that I think about it. In all these series, I loved the first one, then was disappointed. Good thing there was Foundation to restore my faith in SciFi series. I really liked Speaker for the Dead, although if you are expecting a continuation in the same vein as Ender's Game, I can imagine your disappointment. It took me some adjusting too, but I like the philosophical and theological explorations and find the piggies an absolutely brilliant invention. Xenocide is okay, although I don't care much for the World of Path and all characters on it. Children of the Mind is both too slow and too deus ex machina for my taste. Ender's Shadow and the subsequent books(Shadow Series) are really good, and are actually far more faithful successors to Ender's Game than the way the Ender Quintet played out. I have not read the books since Shadow of the Giant, but up until that it was good (and it concludes another story arc). | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
@C Sheep, yeah, I meant Clarke's Rama. That would explain it. Thanks! The first one was a suspenseful exploration with somewhat believable science, and the rest felt more like cheap romance/drama with random philosophy. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
Why are so many of NPR's list of best science fiction books so misogynistic, and why can't we move past our nostalgia for them? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On August 18 2015 11:35 IgnE wrote: http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2015/08/i-read-100-best-fantasy-and-sci-fi-novels-and-they-were-shockingly-offensive Uhh, what? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On August 18 2015 11:35 IgnE wrote: http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2015/08/i-read-100-best-fantasy-and-sci-fi-novels-and-they-were-shockingly-offensive This reminds me how shocked I was when I read Stephen Kings "It" some 20 years ago. There is a scene before they battle the monster for the first time where, as part of the ritual to prepare for the battle, the 6 boys in the group all sleep with the single girl in turn. The characters were portrayed as beeing 11 years old at that point. Back then I couldn't understand that something like this was allowed in a book (oh, how naive I was). Now, having seen (and read) a lot more of the world, I understand how the scene made it into the book, but I still wonder if it was necessary. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On August 18 2015 11:35 IgnE wrote: http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2015/08/i-read-100-best-fantasy-and-sci-fi-novels-and-they-were-shockingly-offensive I think the problem with typical fantasy and scifi writing is far deeper than that. Most of the authors are, unfortunately, bad writers. They have a vivid imagination and are generally a pretty intelligent bunch, so the worlds they build are impressive and intriguing. However, most of the time characterization is neither the most important part of the book, nor their forte. This leads to all characters being cardboard plot devices. The author picks out Sword of Shannarah as one of the egregious defenders. However, while Terry Brooks' characterization of females might be a bit worse than that of males, the main character himself is an utterly bland stereotype. I also fail to see how this is limited to scifi or fantasy. Take the top 100 thrillers and a similar problem will occur. David Baldacchi, Tom Clancy, Robert Ludlum, etc. are all passable writers and know how to move a plot along, but the main characters tend to be fairly generic: it's the setting and the suspense that pull you into a story, and the characters serve more as set pieces than as individuals. Most fantasy and scifi is no different. In fact, the only thriller I remember reading recently with an interesting female was the Millennium trilogy, and it doesn't really fit the mold of pulp books. It is both better written (even in translation) than most of the stuff in airport bookstores, and written by a Swede rather than an American, so from a different cultural background. That said, there are perfectly acceptable strong female leads and side roles in fantasy. Robin Hobb writes some great female characters (although the author of that article probably would disagree with her characterization of rape in multiple books). Hell, even the Dresden files has some interesting female characters, and that's with Jim Butcher writing women's description like he's writing Leia fanfiction. The ugliest women in the Dresden files get described as being drop dead beautiful. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Exoplanet
9 Posts
![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BznsTm4IL._SX338_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) Premise is simple: Retell the biblical story of Joseph and his Brothers (goethe funnily enough suggested this already). Mann manages to use the quite interesting/ exciting story scheme in the ways of a truly great story teller, while giving insight into the "structure" of the vast myths underlying not only the bible but also (jewish/ egyptian) culture. He shows how Joseph as an individualist, an anomaly emerges from myth, by that forms culture/ a story and - of course -- thus becomes myth again (now this sounds too much like circular patterns or sth but I cant rly put it better..) I was absolutely engaged from start to finish (the style is very unusual though and possibly close to untranslatable, most other works of Mann are far more suited to translations). Having read basically all of his work now and having liked nearly all of it (death in venice is rly dull...) I wholeheartedly agree with his son's notion that the Joseph books stand head and shoulder above the rest of his work and are truly unique in world literature. It's as if a skillfull storyteller invited you to his campfire and told you the perfect classic story while enlightening you on storytelling, cultural development and so forth in a beautiful and completely non-dsiruptive way. So I did some research for you: the old english translation by Lowe-Porter is pretty horrible (I read some passages); the one by Woods seems to be good though. So go ahead buy and read, I need someone to discuss this with  | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
I find it difficult to imagine Doctor Faustus being displaced as my favorite Mann book, but maybe Joseph can surprise me. Happy to talk about any of Mann's other stuff before I get around to Joseph though :D On August 19 2015 05:07 corumjhaelen wrote: The top 100 list sucks though, sexist or not. Eh? It seems fine. No list is perfect but I've read around half of the list and I deem it passable. | ||
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