On September 13 2000 The GAINAX website wrote: Giant Meteorite Hits Antarctica? (2000.09.13) According to a P.U. Communications report, a gigantic explosion occurred in Antarctica on this date. The cause has yet to be announced, but experts believe that it was caused my a meteorite impact. Earthquakes and tidal waves of extreme magnitude are occurring all over the world. We are already receiving reports of damage in parts of South Africa and Australia. The force of the explosion is estimated to be upward of 18 billion megatons of TNT. Antarctica itself has been almost entirely pulverized, and it is estimated that most of the ice will turn into vapor, which will condense into massive rainfall, which will in turn swamp coastal areas as sea level rises. Evacuation orders are in effect for all such regions around the world. The preceding was a story from the world of Evangelion. Today is when Second Impact happened in series chronology. It is also the birthdate of Nagisa Kaworu.
Note: The following information comes from a handbook given to the audiences during the original release of End Of Evangelion. It is considered canon.
4.6 billions years ago, deep in the milky way galaxy existed "The First Ancesteral Race", a group of alien beings who were practically omnipotent with their advanced technology. Their world faced with extinction, they accepted their fate, but decided to ensure that life would continue to exist in the universe. Placing the soul of one of their race into seven "Seeds Of Life", they scattered them to 7 inhabitable planets before their destruction.
Each equipped with The Dead Sea Scrolls and a Lance Of Longinus, the Seeds Of Life would provide a primordial soup of life to the planets, and begin life.
There were two kinds of Seeds, a Black Moon, and a White Moon. A "Fruit Of Life" White Moon would spawn Angels, strange and bizzare lifeforms to take over the planet and inhabit it. A "Fruit Of Knowledge" Black Moon would spawn intelligent beings, and ultimately lead to the life form forming civilization.
The White Moon landed on Earth first in Antarctica, but for whatever reason a Black Moon landed as well before the White Moon could begin life on Earth.
Sensing what was wrong, the White Moon became inactive to prevent two life forms from beginning at the same time, allowing us humans to emerge from the Black Moon (metaphorically speaking as evolution would have to take place over millions of years).
Jump forward to the year 2000. Seele, a mysterious organization, discover the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Black Moon uncovered in Japan. The Dead Sea Scrolls were instructions on what the Seeds Of Life were and what they did. They also explain what would happen if two Seeds Of Life hapened to meet on the same planet.
Discovering the White Moon in Antartica, Seele sends the Katsuragi Expedition, headed by Misato's father, to initiate Second Impact before Adam, the soul residing in the White Moon awakens. If Adam was able to reawaken, all Lillith (the soul residing in the Black Moon) based life would extinguish right down to the bacterial level.
Using a human "donor" to initiate contact with Adam, they start Second Impact. In the aftermath of the damage, they were able to suspend Adam into an embryonic state, and delay the coming of the Angels.
The White Moon, along with Antarctica is destroyed. The Black Moon, the birthplace of humanity, is quickly taken up by Seele and their U.N. puppet government along with the truth of Second Impact, instead fabricating a story that a meteor hit the planet. On top of the Black Moon, Tokyo 3 is created, a fortress city designed to intercept the Angels that will be coming in 15 years for Lillith, the mother of humanity, in the depth of the Black Moon Geofront.
Finished the first, of what will be many explanations and updates to come to this post.
I'm not sure when I will be done, or if I will ever be done.
If you would like to contribute, make suggestions or point out errors in the OP/Follow up post please feel free to PM me.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Disclaimer : I watched NGE too many times and I liked it 14 years ago. Also I disregard whatever came after the original show (EoE, rebuild, meeeeh).
You bring good points, I think I more or less agree with most of them.
Now why people think it's so good ? Basically, because historically NGE brought some ambition and some of the best animation quality to a market of weekly released shonen adaptations. It's no secret that 90's weren't particularly good to anime studios because the Japanese market was in recession and therefore it was hard to get the money needed for projects other than what was the current staple of successful licenses (DBZ, Saint Seiya, Sakura, the list goes on...). And that's why NGE went dry before the end of the show. Despite its flaws, NGE success is solely responsible for a wave of post-NGE mecha (and non mecha) animes.
So it was different, very different from everything else when it was released. It was free of classic shonen morals (woohoo the power of friendship and love !), it had the sexual awkwardness of a teenager and an air of conspiracy. Therefore it was very cool (for a teenager).
Of course, now, almost 20 years later, I can tell you most of NGE is fancy bullshit (especially the mythology). But you can't deny the animation quality, the superb eva and angels design (even the chara design is pretty good if you forget one moment they are all sociopaths) and some of the psychological and realistic elements (despite showing almost no character evolution from that standpoint).
Or maybe I'm nostalgic. But I don't think so cause I'd rather watch some FLCL wtf-ism or some Gurren Lagann popcorn when it comes to good Gainax shit. Also, you won't like RahXephon (it's a copypasta with a better hero and better music).
Actually that's not true. The 90s weren't kind to Gainax, that's for sure, but the 90s house more Anime that people put on pedestals as masterpieces than any other decade, and several studios made their break and a LOT of money in the 90s. Examples; Serial Experiments Lain, Slayers, Cardcaptor Sakura, The King of Braves GaoGaiGar, Initial D, Dragon Ball, Bubblegum Crisis, Dancouga - Super Beast Machine God, Patlabor, Ranma 1/2, Legend of The Galactic Heroes, Sailor Moon, Armored Trooper Votoms, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Magic Knight Rayearth, Tekkaman Blade, and H2 (Which has the highest ratings of any TV anime of all time besides Doraemon). These were all highly successful franchises, CCS and Sailor Moon revitalized the "magical girl" genre and are real pinnacles of anime history. Initial D actually started a street racing craze and made the government make more stringent traffic laws. Votoms is scene as top 3 of the greatest Real Robot anime of all time, and GaoGaiGar top 3 Super Robot. To top all that off, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is widely scene as the greatest anime of all time, a complete masterpiece.
Maybe an argument can be made for the Super Robot genre, but even then I wouldn't say Eva has really done anything good for the genre. Now we get all these "ohmahgerd ahm not a villin i just want everywan to be one person so we can all be happay" anime, which no one in their right mind like. Code Geass fans for instance choose to ignore that particular part of the show because they know how utterly crap it makes it.
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
No, I don't like watching teenage angst per se, especially with how badly it's usually done, but evangelion does do that well at least, all of the characters have mental issues and all of them cope in vastly different ways. My friend had it on dvd and introduced me to the show a long long time ago when I was young, and while I do empathize with shinji's hedgehog's dilema and identity crisis a lot at the time I first saw it, by far the most important reason to watch the show is penpen(or pen squared according to the nametag). And I find most giant robot shows focus way too much on self-indulgent fight scenes to the exclusion of having actually interesting and good characters because of some ridiculous gundam fetish, giant robots just aren't my thing.
You realize Gundam STARTED the trend of having character development be an important theme in Mecha anime right? That's why the show is so influential, have you seen 0079? Or Armored Trooper VOTOMs? Or any mecha show not Gundam Wing or Evangelion?
On September 13 2012 08:17 Xiphos wrote: I don't get it.
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Do you see what's wrong with the plot?
For the record - there is absolutely nothing wrong with sexually charged gingers.
On September 13 2012 08:17 Xiphos wrote: I don't get it.
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Do you see what's wrong with the plot?
For the record - there is absolutely nothing wrong with sexually charged gingers.
We happen to be quite the lovers.
Over and out.
But she's not sexually charged, she's just a bitch. She's not even a tsundere.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Disclaimer : I watched NGE too many times and I liked it 14 years ago. Also I disregard whatever came after the original show (EoE, rebuild, meeeeh).
You bring good points, I think I more or less agree with most of them.
Now why people think it's so good ? Basically, because historically NGE brought some ambition and some of the best animation quality to a market of weekly released shonen adaptations. It's no secret that 90's weren't particularly good to anime studios because the Japanese market was in recession and therefore it was hard to get the money needed for projects other than what was the current staple of successful licenses (DBZ, Saint Seiya, Sakura, the list goes on...). And that's why NGE went dry before the end of the show. Despite its flaws, NGE success is solely responsible for a wave of post-NGE mecha (and non mecha) animes.
So it was different, very different from everything else when it was released. It was free of classic shonen morals (woohoo the power of friendship and love !), it had the sexual awkwardness of a teenager and an air of conspiracy. Therefore it was very cool (for a teenager).
Of course, now, almost 20 years later, I can tell you most of NGE is fancy bullshit (especially the mythology). But you can't deny the animation quality, the superb eva and angels design (even the chara design is pretty good if you forget one moment they are all sociopaths) and some of the psychological and realistic elements (despite showing almost no character evolution from that standpoint).
Or maybe I'm nostalgic. But I don't think so cause I'd rather watch some FLCL wtf-ism or some Gurren Lagann popcorn when it comes to good Gainax shit. Also, you won't like RahXephon (it's a copypasta with a better hero and better music).
Actually that's not true. The 90s weren't kind to Gainax, that's for sure, but the 90s house more Anime that people put on pedestals as masterpieces than any other decade, and several studios made their break and a LOT of money in the 90s. Examples; Serial Experiments Lain, Slayers, Cardcaptor Sakura, The King of Braves GaoGaiGar, Initial D, Dragon Ball, Bubblegum Crisis, Dancouga - Super Beast Machine God, Patlabor, Ranma 1/2, Legend of The Galactic Heroes, Sailor Moon, Armored Trooper Votoms, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Magic Knight Rayearth, Tekkaman Blade, and H2 (Which has the highest ratings of any TV anime of all time besides Doraemon). These were all highly successful franchises, CCS and Sailor Moon revitalized the "magical girl" genre and are real pinnacles of anime history. Initial D actually started a street racing craze and made the government make more stringent traffic laws. Votoms is scene as top 3 of the greatest Real Robot anime of all time, and GaoGaiGar top 3 Super Robot. To top all that off, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is widely scene as the greatest anime of all time, a complete masterpiece.
Maybe an argument can be made for the Super Robot genre, but even then I wouldn't say Eva has really done anything good for the genre. Now we get all these "ohmahgerd ahm not a villin i just want everywan to be one person so we can all be happay" anime, which no one in their right mind like. Code Geass fans for instance choose to ignore that particular part of the show because they know how utterly crap it makes it.
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
No, I don't like watching teenage angst per se, especially with how badly it's usually done, but evangelion does do that well at least, all of the characters have mental issues and all of them cope in vastly different ways. My friend had it on dvd and introduced me to the show a long long time ago when I was young, and while I do empathize with shinji's hedgehog's dilema and identity crisis a lot at the time I first saw it, by far the most important reason to watch the show is penpen(or pen squared according to the nametag). And I find most giant robot shows focus way too much on self-indulgent fight scenes to the exclusion of having actually interesting and good characters because of some ridiculous gundam fetish, giant robots just aren't my thing.
You realize Gundam STARTED the trend of having character development be an important theme in Mecha anime right? That's why the show is so influential, have you seen 0079? Or Armored Trooper VOTOMs? Or any mecha show not Gundam Wing or Evangelion?
I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
On September 13 2012 13:48 laLAlA[uC] wrote: o_o Wow. How has it taken so long for this to get its own thread
I am surprised the mods let it have its own thread. I much as i think some of the veterans of the TLADT hate seeing eve in there(I dont think they are the biggest fans xp), i thought it fit fine in there. I mean even threads for the big 3 have a hard time staying alive.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
I really like how you end this: "there has to be SOMETHING to make me care." For those of us that like the anime, it's because we DO care about some parts of it. Shinji is a protagonist who people can attach themselves to not because he's a badass, not because he's unique, but because he's experiencing life at a pace he doesn't want it to happen at. I used to hate on it because it got too sexual and wierd for what I expected was a mecha anime, but the thing is, it really ISN'T a mecha anime. The EVA are just there to help kill the concept of mecha anime, because they were so popular. It's more about growing up, and simultaneously falling apart.
This is probably why mechanime don't happen anymore. The bandwagoning brought tons of people to watch Evangelion, which got them the viewerbase that they needed to complete the series. That's why it's so normal and simple for the first 15-16 episodes. Once Shinji and unit-01 are consumed by Leliel (the shadow in the sky), Anno began to take off the disguise the series had been under for the earlier portions.
Back to why people like the series: Shinji is a whiny little prick. We can all agree on that, I think, but he has valid reasons for it. If you were abandoned by your dad when you were ~7-8, would you be normal? If you had to live with strangers all your life? And then be suddenly thrust into saving the world? I wouldn't be taking that easily, no matter how many hot girls they threw at me. Neither would anyone reading this, and the few exceptions damn well wouldn't have been able to do it when they were 15, and don't pretend like you could. The fate of humanity is a burden too great for so few people to bear, and when you consider that their lives were all turned upside-down at least once before becoming pilots (Asuka's mom going insane, Rei... dying..., and Shinji being abandoned) you can begin to understand why they're all so fucked up even as the series begins.
The end of the series is hard for people to accept, but it's a masterpiece considering their resources. I hate watching EoE because I believe episodes 25/26 have a far bigger bang. That's not saying EoE is bad- seeing Unit-01 ascend and cause 3rd impact was both traumatizing and incredible (I watched the whole series freshman year of high school, after stumbling on the first few episodes on Adult Swim years before). The ending was such a mindfuck I had to look up the implications, and it makes sense now. Asuka and Shinji survive 3rd impact because of their huge self-loathing, but the fact that the two are together implies that they're supposed to fix their problems together. Earlier in the mindfuck portions of the movie, Shinji is talking to Asuka in the apartment, and you can see that it's possible for the two to save each other from themselves, but it doesn't happen. Their survival on post impact Earth is like purgatory: they have to wait for their salvation, but they're unaware that salvation lies in their companions. That's why EoE is so beautiful- it tells you that so well with so few words.
In episodes 25/26, it's all about the dialogue, not the visuals. Watching a subbed version will make it so much harder for you to understand the meaning behind it all, because you aren't familiar with the tones and small vocal cues they give. In the dubbed version, you can notice even small things, which helps you understand the character's feelings. I love the ending of 26, because it's a congratulations to Shinji for overcoming his self-loathing.
Soo why does this have its own thread again? Anything wrong with discussimg eva in TLADT? Anyway i have it on hold at like ep eleven since i dont find the show entertaining at all.
Japaneese know old, secret truth of any succesfull military campaign against giant monsters: there's no better military pilot than a teen with a serious mental disorder.
Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
holy-shit-did-he-actually-just-jack-off-to-a-hospitalised-girl. I hope they keep that part in the remake, haven't gone around to watching it yet, but will.
But seriously what the hell happened at the end? He ends up alive in a sea of red with the redhead and starts strangling her again?
Reminds me I need to rewatch the series one day. Watched it when I was younger and actually didn't have a clear idea actually what was going on. Forget how different series seem rewatching them especially as I get older.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
She doesn't rape him.
What happens is that Asuka tried to force herself (not sexually though) on Shinji on two seperate occasions:
Once by intentionally sleeping right next to him after she told him that she was tired of sleeping near him (for the purposes of training). She put her head right next to Shinji's and exposes her lips, pretending to be (or actually was as she said "momma" afterwards) asleep so Shinji would take the opportunity. However Shinji hesitates at the last minute and is notably scarred by the incident (though he doesn't mention it until much later in the series).
Later on she does practically the same time, only awake and stating that the kiss would only be to "experiment" what it could be like. Afterwards she lies that she never wanted it in the first place and that she was out of her mind.
Misato and Kaworu are the only ones who have made any sexual approach towards Shinji.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
On September 13 2012 15:49 Omnidroid wrote: holy-shit-did-he-actually-just-jack-off-to-a-hospitalised-girl. I hope they keep that part in the remake, haven't gone around to watching it yet, but will.
But seriously what the hell happened at the end? He ends up alive in a sea of red with the redhead and starts strangling her again?
End of Evangelion was weird. From what I got from it, Gendo made Rei and Kaworu fuse together and become God so he could have his own version of 3rd Impact that would res his dead wife, but SEELE wanted to fuse together everybody on earth into that fanta you see, so they're all one consciousness (the Angels were products of Adam and not Eve, we were the latter, and wanted to replace us Eve spawn with themselves). Rei decides yeah nah, fuck Gendo mang and bit him in two, and gave God powers to Unit 01, which in turn gave them to Shinji since he was it's pilot, and he decided that if you didn't want to get orange slimed you didn't have to because he's an indecisive bitch, so he crawls out of the post-primordial goop. The Asuka with him contains traces of Asuka, Rei and Misato in her apparently. Everyone who doesn't wanna be goo can climb out whenever. This is why I think Rebuild is a sequel to End.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
you just sound like you didnt even want to bother to watch the series in the first place.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
In that scene, Shinji and Asuka just figured out that Kaji had died/had been killed. Without Misato to prevent them from butting heads, Shinji exposes himself and offers to help her and give his companionship. Asuka, still bitter about having been defeated and replaced as an Eva pilot by Shinji and Kaworu rejects Shinji and starts a verbal assault on him, claiming that Shinji is only using her as an escape for his relationship issues with Misato, Rei and his father. Shinji starts to beg Asuka to help him, but Asuka forces him on the ground, accidentally letting a hot coffee pot pour over him. Unconcerned with his burns, she continues saying that he's a selfish prick. As she starts to leave Shinji gets up and throwing things in the kitchen as he finally starts to lose it. He begins to have a panic attack, probably due to his issues with being abandoned by his father, and starts screaming at Asuka to not do the same. When Asuka refuses him, he strangles her.
This is why Shinji is shown to be hanging out with Kaworu in the original episodes, and why Asuka appeared to be completely traumatized in the beginning of the movie.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
The original ending was a byproduct of his depression, his company circling the drain and weird as shit anti-depressants. Like, even the VA's were asking what the hell he was on.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
In that scene, Shinji and Asuka just figured out that Kaji had died/had been killed. Without Misato to prevent them from butting heads, Shinji exposes himself and offers to help her and give his companionship. Asuka, still bitter about having been defeated and replaced as an Eva pilot by Shinji and Kaworu rejects Shinji and starts a verbal assault on him, claiming that Shinji is only using her as an escape for his relationship issues with Misato, Rei and his father. Shinji starts to beg Asuka to help him, but Asuka forces him on the ground, accidentally letting a hot coffee pot pour over him. Unconcerned with his burns, she continues saying that he's a selfish prick. As she starts to leave Shinji gets up and throwing things in the kitchen as he finally starts to lose it. He begins to have a panic attack, probably due to his issues with being abandoned by his father, and starts screaming at Asuka to not do the same. When Asuka refuses him, he strangles her.
This is why Shinji is shown to be hanging out with Kaworu in the original episodes, and why Asuka appeared to be completely traumatized in the beginning of the movie.
I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
On September 13 2012 16:09 RockIronrod wrote: I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
The original 25-26 episodes are the characters exploring each other as they are "complemented" through instrumentality. Asuka is examined by the other characters, and is forced to confront her psychological issues stemming from her low self esteem, having to suffer watching and hearing her mother think of a doll as her child rather than her before she hangs herself in front of Asuka.
Nothing actually happens while they're in the sea of life... and to be honest Asuka and Rei and just shown to be naked a lot.
EPT
