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NOTE: This thread contains spoilers. Do not read the thread if you are not caught up.
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Given the way the SEC is hounding Harvey, it has to be asked: IS he a dirty lawyer?
I feel that the show has cast him as pushing into the gray area but he has a keen sense of right and wrong and doesn't cross the line. It is admittedly contradicted by many events over the show so far, but I have to wonder if he has crossed over into villain territory.
I also think where last season ended with Harvey being punished for his pride, this season will see Mike punished for his self-righteousness. There are a lot of shoes to drop though - Forsmann, his secret, Rachel being tempted by Logan, the feud with Harvey going beyond repair, etc.
If I had to guess, I would bet Forsmann and Sidwell made a deal to rip apart Gilles Industries and sell it for parts, even more greedily than Logan and Harvey were planning. So Mike will win a Pyrrhic victory over Harvey that will be worse than losing would have been.
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The „heroes“ in suits are (narcistic) corporate lawyers and now investment bankers…
No, they are not good guys and no, they don’t really care about right or wrong, they care about legal/grey/illegal and basically just think about how they can get away with shady deal/move XYZ…
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Ofcourse they are the good guys, we wouldn't keep watching if they weren't. TV Shows are built around characters the audience can root for. They've portrayed Harvey like something you describe but with a heart. The times when he does all that grey area jazz is when the opponent is a faceless big corporation or another person who is portrayed like the bigger evil.
We don't even need to mention Louis. He's a comedy character who hasn't done anything bad at all. I can't even think of grey areas with that guy.
The "evilest" main character that I can think of is Jessica, but she isn't a bad guy at all. She is tough but very fair.
Also none of them are narcissistic. A few of the traits of narcissism is shown in some of the characters, but it's confidence and cockiness, not narcissism.
Would they be considered bad guys if it wasn't a TV show? Perhaps...
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Just because the audience roots for a character doesn't make him a good guy. People like Mike and Harvey are what people consider wrong with capitalism and the modern day economy. Pretending like they're some unsung heroes is just naive. We root for them because they're cool characters, and because they're the main characters. They're shady and grey at best, but I wouldn't classify any one of them as good. That doesn't mean that some of them don't have good traits or good intentions sometimes though.
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On July 18 2014 23:09 kuresuti wrote:
Ofcourse they are the good guys, we wouldn't keep watching if they weren't. TV Shows are built around characters the audience can root for. They've portrayed Harvey like something you describe but with a heart. The times when he does all that grey area jazz is when the opponent is a faceless big corporation or another person who is portrayed like the bigger evil.
We don't even need to mention Louis. He's a comedy character who hasn't done anything bad at all. I can't even think of grey areas with that guy.
The "evilest" main character that I can think of is Jessica, but she isn't a bad guy at all. She is tough but very fair.
Also none of them are narcissistic. A few of the traits of narcissism is shown in some of the characters, but it's confidence and cockiness, not narcissism.
Would they be considered bad guys if it wasn't a TV show? Perhaps...
I think a better word than "good guys" would be "anti-hero", like Dr. House from House or Beowulf. I think Harvey, Mike, and Louis have all been painted as anti-heros at one time or another, because they often do good things but lack conventional hero qualities like selflessness (or fuck up in one way or another).
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I wouldn't call Dr House an anti hero. He's pretty much a total hero, he's just also a huge dick :D
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On July 18 2014 23:52 Mikau wrote:
I wouldn't call Dr House an anti hero. He's pretty much a total hero, he's just also a huge dick :D
That's the definition of an anti-hero though lol. "A hero who's a huge dick" is about as anti-heroish as you can get. Beowulf epitomizes antiheroism, because he's a hero who's selfish and lacks humility.
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On July 18 2014 23:19 Mikau wrote:
Just because the audience roots for a character doesn't make him a good guy. People like Mike and Harvey are what people consider wrong with capitalism and the modern day economy. Pretending like they're some unsung heroes is just naive. We root for them because they're cool characters, and because they're the main characters. They're shady and grey at best, but I wouldn't classify any one of them as good. That doesn't mean that some of them don't have good traits or good intentions sometimes though.
I'd still say they are the good guys in the context of corporate law. Their work might be considered "bad" in the grand scheme of things (they don't really contribute to society) but this show isn't about that, it's about law and the environment surrounding it.
You could turn many characters in TV and movies to be bad guys if we wouldn't take context into consideration.
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On July 18 2014 23:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 23:52 Mikau wrote:
I wouldn't call Dr House an anti hero. He's pretty much a total hero, he's just also a huge dick :D That's the definition of an anti-hero though lol. "A hero who's a huge dick" is about as anti-heroish as you can get. Beowulf epitomizes antiheroism, because he's a hero who's selfish and lacks humility.
I'm not familiar with Beowulf, and I haven't seen any House past season 2 or something, but if I remember correctly House still posesses many hero like qualities even though he's an ass. I wouldn't say sarcasm negates all those qualities. An anti hero is somebody who is a hero missing those qualities.
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On July 19 2014 00:37 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 23:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 18 2014 23:52 Mikau wrote:
I wouldn't call Dr House an anti hero. He's pretty much a total hero, he's just also a huge dick :D That's the definition of an anti-hero though lol. "A hero who's a huge dick" is about as anti-heroish as you can get. Beowulf epitomizes antiheroism, because he's a hero who's selfish and lacks humility. I'm not familiar with Beowulf, and I haven't seen any House past season 2 or something, but if I remember correctly House still posesses many hero like qualities even though he's an ass. I wouldn't say sarcasm negates all those qualities. An anti hero is somebody who is a hero missing those qualities.
House also lacks compassion, is selfish, and is intensely opportunistic. And cynical. And narcissistic. Et cetera.
I love his character, but he's exactly an anti-hero.
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Donna and Luis dominated this ep, and iam fine with that. Amazing scenes between those two.
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On July 18 2014 19:12 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 18:53 Adreme wrote:On July 18 2014 18:13 Mikau wrote:On July 18 2014 06:07 Adreme wrote:On July 18 2014 01:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:More great Louis moments. Love it  I laughed and I teared up. I also thought it was well-played how Louis's "I'm retiring" quote in the teaser wasn't about leaving the law firm. Donna showing weakness was surprising, yet endearing. And the ending was cute I, too, am a Donna fan. On July 17 2014 22:10 Mikau wrote:
So if I understand things correctly, Mike got Forstman's money without having to screw over Sidwell right? So even though they didn't get the big package of shares they're still in the take over race?
I thought that was a good thing, then why did the episode seem to end with a sense of gloom? Yeah I was a bit confused about this too. Maybe it's because the take-over race is still being scrutinized by Cahill. He signed the contract that said he would cut Cidwell out but he never used the money so he didn't have to cut Cidwell out yet and wouldn't have to pay Forstman his cut if the deal broke (he was planning on merely using the knowledge that he had it to leverage a deal) but Cidwell had no idea there was a downside to taking the money so he took it and now that the money is taken Cidwell has to be cut out. Now that's definitely not true. At the end they were talking about how Sidwell signed the contract for Mike, and wondered why it took Mike so long to sign it. The whole point of this was that Mike hadn't technically taken his money yet so he wasn't on the hook to screw over Cidwell. Everyone knew he had it, everyone knew he could use it, but he hadn't used it so there deal technically was not in effect until he did. Forstman figured it out and went to CIdwell to get him to spend the money and thus force the agreement he has with Mike into effect and Cidwell spent the money because to most likely de-leverage his company possibly figuring Mike just made an oversight while focused on closing the deal. And you think Sidwell would sign any contract in which he doesn't get a dime?
Honestly the ending scene can go either way. Forstman might have just been testing Mike's character and signed a new contract with Sidwell that did not cut him out. Or it might be that the contract was already signed between Mike and Forstman and that Mike is now going to screw over Sidwell hence the "we are partners whether you like it or not."
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On July 19 2014 07:29 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 19:12 Mikau wrote:On July 18 2014 18:53 Adreme wrote:On July 18 2014 18:13 Mikau wrote:On July 18 2014 06:07 Adreme wrote:On July 18 2014 01:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:More great Louis moments. Love it I laughed and I teared up. I also thought it was well-played how Louis's "I'm retiring" quote in the teaser wasn't about leaving the law firm. Donna showing weakness was surprising, yet endearing. And the ending was cute I, too, am a Donna fan. On July 17 2014 22:10 Mikau wrote:
So if I understand things correctly, Mike got Forstman's money without having to screw over Sidwell right? So even though they didn't get the big package of shares they're still in the take over race?
I thought that was a good thing, then why did the episode seem to end with a sense of gloom? Yeah I was a bit confused about this too. Maybe it's because the take-over race is still being scrutinized by Cahill. He signed the contract that said he would cut Cidwell out but he never used the money so he didn't have to cut Cidwell out yet and wouldn't have to pay Forstman his cut if the deal broke (he was planning on merely using the knowledge that he had it to leverage a deal) but Cidwell had no idea there was a downside to taking the money so he took it and now that the money is taken Cidwell has to be cut out. Now that's definitely not true. At the end they were talking about how Sidwell signed the contract for Mike, and wondered why it took Mike so long to sign it. The whole point of this was that Mike hadn't technically taken his money yet so he wasn't on the hook to screw over Cidwell. Everyone knew he had it, everyone knew he could use it, but he hadn't used it so there deal technically was not in effect until he did. Forstman figured it out and went to CIdwell to get him to spend the money and thus force the agreement he has with Mike into effect and Cidwell spent the money because to most likely de-leverage his company possibly figuring Mike just made an oversight while focused on closing the deal. And you think Sidwell would sign any contract in which he doesn't get a dime? Honestly the ending scene can go either way. Forstman might have just been testing Mike's character and signed a new contract with Sidwell that did not cut him out. Or it might be that the contract was already signed between Mike and Forstman and that Mike is now going to screw over Sidwell hence the "we are partners whether you like it or not."
Yeah, I didn't quite know what to make of it either. Either way, I think the point is that Mike did end up making a pact with the Devil, whether Sidwell is out or not.
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I hope this love triangle shit gets removed next episode. It's so annoying and accomplishes nothing.
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I can't believe nobody said this yet, but here it is:
ROBERTA
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New Suits episode in about 3.5 hours! And the best part is that this episode is entitled "Litt The Hell Up"
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Yes we are 2 minutes ^^
Someone's gonna get LITT UP!!!
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That's one way to put it Plasma.
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EPT
