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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Yeah, I've gone from rabid fan to casual viewer as well. The show is still good in its own right, but is no longer special. The cleverness is gone.
Even with Jon getting baited in by simple bait, there was plenty of room for other people to be clever in the battle of the bastards... Davos especially. He was back with the archers doing nothing, so, they put away their bows, drew swords, and charged right in to the middle of the fray. Why? By being in the back, he had a good view of how the battle was playing out. Bolton sacrificed his cavalry to Jon's cavalry + infantry, and that left Snow's archers in a good spot to do some damage at minimal risk.
Why not move the archers up to just within maximum firing range of the Bolton Archers and counter-snipe, then withdraw again? That would force the Bolton archers back and provide some cover for your infantry. Or, why not hang back and protect the flanks with bows to ensure your fighting force doesn't get surrounded (like it did)? There weren't any Bolton horses left to hurt your archers and while Davos is not known as a tactical genius, he still has been known to be a practical man. The archers could have made a huge difference in turning the tide of the battle, but instead charged right into the kill zone.
If the archers had done something smart, it opens up further counter-play by Ramsay's forces. They could have set up some sort of trap for the Snow archers... a second group of hidden cavalry or whatever. Then suddenly Davos is in danger and the tension mounts. It becomes two clever opponents facing off with each other in a pitched battle. Kind of like how clever opponents faced off in political gamesmanship in the early seasons of GoT.
But as I said, it seems like the cleverness is gone. The show still does other things well, but it's really missing that element in almost all ways. Everything is just so straightforward and any "plot" is set up and executed in a very direct way. The thing is, it never hurts a series to be clever, no matter how large the audience. The problem is that it's hard to do it well and clearly D&D can't, despite feeble attempts at it. So all the action/tits/gore covers up the missing cleverness and still appeals to most people.
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I think you're confusing cleverness in battle tactics from the one's leaing the battle for writing cleverness.
You can't expect the best of battle strategy. Sure it could've been executed way better, but I could blame that to Jon's/Davos' inexperience/passion just as well.
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On June 26 2016 15:43 a_flayer wrote:
I couldn't even be bothered to watch the theatre scenes this season, I skipped right through them. If I wanted to see that stuff again, I'd rewatch the first few seasons.
I think you missed the point on those scenes. They don't play back what happened, they play what history will remember. And that's the great king geoffrey dying because of the evil imp, the stark traitors depicted as bad guys etc
Such a bias compared to what we know happened, but it's still what will go down as history. Found that quite sad from arya's perspective, and most likely what triggered that "fuck that no-face bs, I'm a stark and I go wrongs to right".
The scenes were a bit boring indeed, but I really liked that point.
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So Varys went to Dorne then came back from Dorne just so he could sail to Westeros with the fleet
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Yeah, teleportation seems to be a given in this series. 
So R+L=J confirmed (as if it weren't already). Now that fat bastard needs to hurry up and finish the next book
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I've come to accept that D&D gave teleportation devices to people who've met the Snakes. Anyways, I thought it was a good season finale and confirmed what we've known for a while anyways. Funny and a bit sad seeing Dany sail west faster than GRRM can write.
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It's nice though to finally make it official, even if it was basically 99.99%.
I finally saw the a good role for the Sand Snakes. Living targets to get sassed by Lady Olenna.
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Well now that it is confirmed that Jon is technically a Targaryen, couldn't Jon marry Sansa when they win the Iron throne? They are going to grow closer and in this world cousins marrying is pretty common. They were trying to wed Sansa to her other cousin Robbin Arryn of the Vale at one point.
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On June 27 2016 11:17 TomatoBisque wrote:
So Varys went to Dorne then came back from Dorne just so he could sail to Westeros with the fleet
If Arya jumped over the narrow sea in one episode then Varys can do it twice. Littlefinger can teleport the Vale army from Moat Cailin to Winterfell and Jaime can get from Riverrun to the Twins and then to King's Landing without breaking a sweat. Also a raven flew from King's Landing to Highgarden to let Olena know about her family's death just in time for her to leave and travel to Sunspear.
I think the answer is clear: Westeros has a giant metro system that also crosses the narrow sea.
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On June 27 2016 12:06 SheaR619 wrote:
Well now that it is confirmed that Jon is technically a Targaryen, couldn't Jon marry Sansa when they win the Iron throne? They are going to grow closer and in this world cousins marrying is pretty common. They were trying to wed Sansa to her other cousin Robbin Arryn of the Vale as well.
Considering how not uncommon it is in our world outside of the west, I find it very likely they will go for it...but then again my mind might be warped as a result of playing too much FE Fates...
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so was Sansa mad at Jon for becoming kitn or not? will she plot with LF or something?
edit: also I was disapointed by the size of lord Manderly...
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On June 27 2016 12:19 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
so was Sansa mad at Jon for becoming kitn or not? will she plot with LF or something?
edit: also I was disapointed by the size of lord Manderly...
I wouldnt be surprised if she had him killed and pinned it on LF if they go 100% Mad Sansa
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On June 27 2016 12:19 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
so was Sansa mad at Jon for becoming kitn or not? will she plot with LF or something?
edit: also I was disapointed by the size of lord Manderly...
Pretty sure she was happy for him. She wanted him to have the main lord room. I think she was giving LF the look because LF was giving her shit that nobody would follow him since he wasn't a true Stark. Therefore she would have to lead the stark but every one pledge allegiance to Jon Snow even though he was a Snow.
Best part was Lady Mormont calling out the other houses for being pussies lolol oh man what a baller.
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On June 27 2016 12:22 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 12:19 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
so was Sansa mad at Jon for becoming kitn or not? will she plot with LF or something?
edit: also I was disapointed by the size of lord Manderly... I wouldnt be surprised if she had him killed and pinned it on LF if they go 100% Mad Sansa
Never gonna happen. Far more likely that Sansa kind of resents Jon, but works with him over LF to beat LF in "the game". Then, when they find out Jon isn't Ned's heir, she is Queen of the North and Jon will probably marry Dany.
Jon and Sansa could get married too, but I think Dany + Jon is more likely since Jon + Sansa would mean that they would have to defeat Dany somehow and we know the writers aren't good enough to kill off Dany/Arya/Tyrion since they ran out of source material.
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On June 27 2016 11:32 jxx wrote:Yeah, teleportation seems to be a given in this series. So R+L=J confirmed (as if it weren't already). Now that fat bastard needs to hurry up and finish the next book
Doesnt that put Jon and Danaerys on a collision course though? I would have guessed they got married. Given the entire scene devoted to it.
I mean, who else can she marry? None of the other houses have an male Heir worth marrying, he will be king in the north. I figured they would wrap a bow around that after beating the lannisters and then unite to fight the white walkers.
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That house do have incest but she is his aunt?
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On June 27 2016 13:47 Azza wrote:
That house do have incest but she is his aunt?
If you take Jon to be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna then yes.
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To be fair, this was probably my favorite episode this season. Those last three scenes in particular were pretty amazing.
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EPT
