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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
The previous discussion might as well be an IRL religion argument masquerading as an ASoIaF discussion. Lets not go there again. Nothing good comes of arguing between brick walls and repeating the same things over and over.
Brynden replacing Stoneheart is an interesting one, but I do not think it is possible. They would not have bothered with Dondarrion's many resurrections without Stoneheart on the way. The whole purpose of having the brotherhood without banners gets weird without it leading to Stoneheart. They might have included the brotherhood in order to have the contact with Arya's arc and the nature of the war, but without Thoros or Dondarrion if they wanted to skip Stoneheart.
That would be a huge change, and they say that they are not willing to make major changes. I recite this after we've spent the last few pages complaining about the huge changes to Stannis and Shae (with big implications for Tyrion)...
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On June 12 2013 13:38 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 12:25 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 03:22 Nyxisto wrote:wtf... maybe you don't think stannis is a "key" character. i for sure think he plays a major role on his own in the books. he represents the "law" and "balance" in westeros. But you remember he killed his own brother with some kind of spooky sex magic and burned people alive to gain power? Besides from a few moments when Stannis actually gets his shit together he mostly preaches water but drinks wine. This argument always grinds my gears. Renly was going to have Stannis killed the next day in battle, Stannis merely struck first and was protecting his own life. The only difference with that and what Dany did to take Yunkai was Stannis used magical means. Both used 'under-handed' tactics You're just a selective reader Stannis didn't have to fight Renly. Both of their claims were dubious (there still is little/no proof that Cersei's children are not from Robert). The difference between what Dany does is that she recognizes that her claim is tenuous (at best) and does not assume anyone is going to roll over for her. Stannis says 'it's for the realm!' but really it's always about him. With Dany you believe she cares for the well being of others. Or maybe she's just dragon crazy; we don't know just yet. You're a selective reader as well
Your logic is undeniable. So much evidence to support your claim.
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By the Seven and the Old Gods, where in my post did I ever make mention of Stannis' claim? My post had zero instances of the word 'claim', so why are you even talking about it?
So my mistake, you're not a selective reader, you're a bad reader
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On June 13 2013 11:53 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 13:38 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 12:25 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 03:22 Nyxisto wrote:wtf... maybe you don't think stannis is a "key" character. i for sure think he plays a major role on his own in the books. he represents the "law" and "balance" in westeros. But you remember he killed his own brother with some kind of spooky sex magic and burned people alive to gain power? Besides from a few moments when Stannis actually gets his shit together he mostly preaches water but drinks wine. This argument always grinds my gears. Renly was going to have Stannis killed the next day in battle, Stannis merely struck first and was protecting his own life. The only difference with that and what Dany did to take Yunkai was Stannis used magical means. Both used 'under-handed' tactics You're just a selective reader Stannis didn't have to fight Renly. Both of their claims were dubious (there still is little/no proof that Cersei's children are not from Robert). The difference between what Dany does is that she recognizes that her claim is tenuous (at best) and does not assume anyone is going to roll over for her. Stannis says 'it's for the realm!' but really it's always about him. With Dany you believe she cares for the well being of others. Or maybe she's just dragon crazy; we don't know just yet. You're a selective reader as well Your logic is undeniable. So much evidence to support your claim.
i assume he ment you're a selective reader about not catching cersei and jaime admit to like 5 people at least that all three children are theirs, which means that Stannis (and to an extent, Renly) had 100% legit claims to make. they cant prove it and know it like we did, but hey, we all know how hair colour works: black beats gold. Could give you a small lecture about how that works but that's pointless. U might wanna re-read aGoT because im quite sure Ned is one of the persons who's simply told by cersei about the kids (after he confronts her)
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On June 13 2013 08:39 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:33 Soda wrote:
I just finished A Dance of Dragons today! Now I can read/post in this thread! Yay! Great! Now you can catch up on the gazillions of crazy theories that will blow your mind. 
Yes, soon he will know that J = R + L has nothing to do with mathematics...
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Hey guys,after i started watching the HBO show,i started reading the books too.In book 1 Sansa said something like:Jon is jealous of him(Joffrey)Because he is a bastard.I started wondering about Jon and Sansa's relation as a Brother and sister.Do they like eachother or do they despise eachother?It has not been made clear in the show and i'm really interested to know more.
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i think Sansa is not as bad as catlyn but she doesnt love him either
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On June 13 2013 22:28 t0ssboy wrote:
Hey guys,after i started watching the HBO show,i started reading the books too.In book 1 Sansa said something like:Jon is jealous of him(Joffrey)Because he is a bastard.I started wondering about Jon and Sansa's relation as a Brother and sister.Do they like eachother or do they despise eachother?It has not been made clear in the show and i'm really interested to know more.
They dont hate each other. Its just that Sansa is portrayed as a superfical bitch in some regards. She doesnt respect Jon much because of his lower status. Surely also a result of how Catelyn treats Jon. This relationship is not explored much though because it is not that important.
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On June 13 2013 22:34 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 22:28 t0ssboy wrote:
Hey guys,after i started watching the HBO show,i started reading the books too.In book 1 Sansa said something like:Jon is jealous of him(Joffrey)Because he is a bastard.I started wondering about Jon and Sansa's relation as a Brother and sister.Do they like eachother or do they despise eachother?It has not been made clear in the show and i'm really interested to know more. They dont hate each other. Its just that Sansa is portrayed as a superfical bitch in some regards. She doesnt respect Jon much because of his lower status. Surely also a result of how Catelyn treats Jon. This relationship is not explored much though because it is not that important.
There is a brief mention of it in a Feast for Crows. When Sansa has to act like Littlefinger's bastard daughter and she suddenly wonders about Jon Snow and how he was doing and what not
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I don't think Sansa cared too much about Jon one way or the other. I mean, I'm sure she cared more about him than some unnamed servant or something, but there doesn't seem to have been much of a personal connection (like he had with Arya, Bran or Robb). I doubt she resented him or held any hostile feelings.
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My crazy theory of the day!
Sansa Stark wins the game and ends up on the throne. She will end up Marrying Little Finger, who after all the battles and bloodshed will somehow end up on the iron throne, then Sansa(Possibly with the help of a certain younger female faceless assassin) kills Little Finger and takes the throne fully for herself!
Stark's win bitcheesss!!
This theory has no logical proof except
1)I think it would be certainly unexpected outcome
2) GRRM said he wanted a bittersweet ending, what better then Sansa Stark sitting on the throne then thinking back on how everyone she loved and cared for is dead?
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On June 13 2013 23:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
My crazy theory of the day!
Sansa Stark wins the game and ends up on the throne. She will end up Marrying Little Finger, who after all the battles and bloodshed will somehow end up on the iron throne, then Sansa(Possibly with the help of a certain younger female faceless assassin) kills Little Finger and takes the throne fully for herself!
Stark's win bitcheesss!!
This theory has no logical proof except
1)I think it would be certainly unexpected outcome
2) GRRM said he wanted a bittersweet ending, what better then Sansa Stark sitting on the throne then thinking back on how everyone she loved and cared for is dead?
And both others and dragons are massive red herrings? I doubt it. While Sansa may end up as the warden of the north (and maybe even vale as well), I think when all is said and done a Tagaryen will sit on the Iron Throne again. Which one? Who knows. Maybe Jon, maybe Dany, maybe Faegon (although I foresee death for Faegon, he is entirely too inconsequential to live), maybe a surprise plot reveal Tagaryen, but a Tagaryen will sit on the Iron throne, not a Stark.
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On June 13 2013 21:56 Koerage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 11:53 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 13:38 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 12:25 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 03:22 Nyxisto wrote:wtf... maybe you don't think stannis is a "key" character. i for sure think he plays a major role on his own in the books. he represents the "law" and "balance" in westeros. But you remember he killed his own brother with some kind of spooky sex magic and burned people alive to gain power? Besides from a few moments when Stannis actually gets his shit together he mostly preaches water but drinks wine. This argument always grinds my gears. Renly was going to have Stannis killed the next day in battle, Stannis merely struck first and was protecting his own life. The only difference with that and what Dany did to take Yunkai was Stannis used magical means. Both used 'under-handed' tactics You're just a selective reader Stannis didn't have to fight Renly. Both of their claims were dubious (there still is little/no proof that Cersei's children are not from Robert). The difference between what Dany does is that she recognizes that her claim is tenuous (at best) and does not assume anyone is going to roll over for her. Stannis says 'it's for the realm!' but really it's always about him. With Dany you believe she cares for the well being of others. Or maybe she's just dragon crazy; we don't know just yet. You're a selective reader as well Your logic is undeniable. So much evidence to support your claim. i assume he ment you're a selective reader about not catching cersei and jaime admit to like 5 people at least that all three children are theirs, which means that Stannis (and to an extent, Renly) had 100% legit claims to make. they cant prove it and know it like we did, but hey, we all know how hair colour works: black beats gold. Could give you a small lecture about how that works but that's pointless. U might wanna re-read aGoT because im quite sure Ned is one of the persons who's simply told by cersei about the kids (after he confronts her)
Yes it's quite clear TO THE READER that they are incestuous, but 'omg they don't have black hair' isn't evidence strong enough to claim the throne.
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On June 13 2013 23:54 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 23:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
My crazy theory of the day!
Sansa Stark wins the game and ends up on the throne. She will end up Marrying Little Finger, who after all the battles and bloodshed will somehow end up on the iron throne, then Sansa(Possibly with the help of a certain younger female faceless assassin) kills Little Finger and takes the throne fully for herself!
Stark's win bitcheesss!!
This theory has no logical proof except
1)I think it would be certainly unexpected outcome
2) GRRM said he wanted a bittersweet ending, what better then Sansa Stark sitting on the throne then thinking back on how everyone she loved and cared for is dead? And both others and dragons are massive red herrings? I doubt it. While Sansa may end up as the warden of the north (and maybe even vale as well), I think when all is said and done a Tagaryen will sit on the Iron Throne again. Which one? Who knows. Maybe Jon, maybe Dany, maybe Faegon (although I foresee death for Faegon, he is entirely too inconsequential to live), maybe a surprise plot reveal Tagaryen, but a Tagaryen will sit on the Iron throne, not a Stark.
Obviously the Dragons and others are not red herrings exactly, they will play their part battle each other and kill each other off, Sansa will be the ruler of ash so to speak...
Also I'm not really serious with this theory, which is why I called it my crazy theory of the day and even said it has no logical proof 
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A lot could happen in the last 2 books, I mean Aegon pretty much just came completely out of left field in ADwD, so who knows what will pop up. If I had to pick someone to sit the throne right now (if there even is one come the final book...) I'd say Stannis will claim it in the end.
He just seems like the perfect fit for this story. Likely not especially bad, nor is he especially good as a ruler. Just a cold man of duty and justice. He won't be loved, but he'll be king anyway. Plus he seems to have that lame messiah deal going for him and the Lord of Light is op so...
Dany will either die or realize she's better off in Essos after losing almost everything. She'll probably at least retain Drogon though.
Aegon may claim the throne but won't hold it in the end. He seems like he's been engineered to be king, he's too perfect. Something will go wrong.
Littlefinger will come close but won't have it in the end.
Tyrion is too cool for King's Landing
Lannisters and Tyrells will destroy each other.
Sansa probably would never want to even go back to King's Landing. Jon Snow wouldn't want it. Really, I don't think any of the Starks would.
Dorne will fall with Aegon.
Stannis it is.
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On June 13 2013 23:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
My crazy theory of the day!
Sansa Stark wins the game and ends up on the throne. She will end up Marrying Little Finger, who after all the battles and bloodshed will somehow end up on the iron throne, then Sansa(Possibly with the help of a certain younger female faceless assassin) kills Little Finger and takes the throne fully for herself!
Stark's win bitcheesss!!
This theory has no logical proof except
1)I think it would be certainly unexpected outcome
2) GRRM said he wanted a bittersweet ending, what better then Sansa Stark sitting on the throne then thinking back on how everyone she loved and cared for is dead?
It really looks like Littlefinger will march on Winterfell and Sansa will kill him there, given all the foreshadowing we've had. It's not certain but I would say it's more likely to happen than not.
We've got too little information and too many theories to decide how the endgame will be bittersweet, but there's one I enjoy particularly. If R'hllor and the Great Other are a single entity (something we don't have enough information to decide, unfortunately), then possibly the fire and ice could go all Ragnarök on humanity and ally against them. All the likeable characters (even Tyrion) would be on their side, and so we would be forced to root for them against the humans. But if they win, humanity is wiped out... That would certainly be bittersweet, and that would be a reversal of the trope of good humans fighting against evil supernatural forces; we know how much GRRM likes to reverse tropes. Also it does seem that a lot of norse mythology was used for his world and characters, so I'm thinking why not.
Sidenote, it's not even certain that R'hllor and the dragons are on the same side, so we could have something similar happen even if R'hllor isn't the Great Other. Then Azor Ahai would be Jaime, but that's bordering on crackpot enough already =)
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On June 13 2013 23:58 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 21:56 Koerage wrote:On June 13 2013 11:53 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 13:38 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 12:25 Bigtony wrote:On June 12 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:On June 12 2013 03:22 Nyxisto wrote:wtf... maybe you don't think stannis is a "key" character. i for sure think he plays a major role on his own in the books. he represents the "law" and "balance" in westeros. But you remember he killed his own brother with some kind of spooky sex magic and burned people alive to gain power? Besides from a few moments when Stannis actually gets his shit together he mostly preaches water but drinks wine. This argument always grinds my gears. Renly was going to have Stannis killed the next day in battle, Stannis merely struck first and was protecting his own life. The only difference with that and what Dany did to take Yunkai was Stannis used magical means. Both used 'under-handed' tactics You're just a selective reader Stannis didn't have to fight Renly. Both of their claims were dubious (there still is little/no proof that Cersei's children are not from Robert). The difference between what Dany does is that she recognizes that her claim is tenuous (at best) and does not assume anyone is going to roll over for her. Stannis says 'it's for the realm!' but really it's always about him. With Dany you believe she cares for the well being of others. Or maybe she's just dragon crazy; we don't know just yet. You're a selective reader as well Your logic is undeniable. So much evidence to support your claim. i assume he ment you're a selective reader about not catching cersei and jaime admit to like 5 people at least that all three children are theirs, which means that Stannis (and to an extent, Renly) had 100% legit claims to make. they cant prove it and know it like we did, but hey, we all know how hair colour works: black beats gold. Could give you a small lecture about how that works but that's pointless. U might wanna re-read aGoT because im quite sure Ned is one of the persons who's simply told by cersei about the kids (after he confronts her) Yes it's quite clear TO THE READER that they are incestuous, but 'omg they don't have black hair' isn't evidence strong enough to claim the throne.
I think you should reread. Cersei admitted it multiple times to people that her children are Jaime's. She even admited to aborting a baby that belonged to robert. Jaime even knows that her kids are his. The entire small council knows. Littlefinger knows b/c he keeps hinting to ned about it in the first book, and used it trick ned into believing that that was what killed Jon Arryn. Varys knows, Renly knows and which is why he rebelled. Lady Olenna knew. Any1 who had any claim to power knew the truth.
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On June 13 2013 23:56 Erasme wrote:
Maybe Jon marries Dany..
That might be awkwardly ironic, no?
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Gahhh... Just watched episode 9 with my friend and she was sobbing quietly after the episode finished for like 10 minutes. Knew exactly what was going to happen but it was still difficult to watch. I think the books lost a lot of steam after the third book (well because damn, a major plot line died). Daaamnnnnn you Walder Frey. I really wish they did not split the 3rd season into two because 1) Jon becoming Lord Commander of the night's watch 2) Tyrion pwning Twyin straight in the gut with a crossbow 3) Arya heading off across the sea provided some much needed catharsis after the red wedding.
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EPT
