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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 10 2013 22:47 Tiwo wrote:
I'm gonna throw something out there what is COMPLETELY change the Shae story.
What if Shae does not betray Tyrion at all, she is not even in Tywins room.
What if Tywin finds out, and doesn't kill her but she just disappears, Tyrion get angry kills Tywin at the PW, Where is Shae (and where is Tysha), Where do whores go?
I see this work somehow, or something close to this. Show watchers don't care about Tysha, she has no face.
I predicted exactly that a few months ago. 
On April 10 2013 21:40 Conti wrote:
I'm getting more and more convinced that Shae is filling the role of Tysha in the show, by the way. In the show, Shae will be Tyrion's big love, and it will be Shae who will be taken away/murdered by Tywin (probably right after Tyrion will be arrested for Joffrey's death), which will result in Tyrion killing Tywin.
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On June 10 2013 20:34 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 20:28 Doctorbeat wrote:On June 10 2013 20:21 Redox wrote:
Other than that, I am surprised people are not bitching about the biggest plot change so far. Shae is confirmed for truly loving Tyrion, and not the common whore she was in the books. So most probably she will not betray Tyrion, there will be no scene with Tyrion killing her etc. It will all be very different. It's not better than the original, but it can work and it's nowhere near as much of a big deal as the character assassination of Stannis. Holy shit, I am so much disagreeing with this I am literally getting angry. I think I will read the Davos chapters of the first half of Storm again because I cant believe my perception would be this wrong. I really feal like the show absolutely mirrors my perception of Stannis.
I can't believe you think the show is mirroring Stannis. First of all in the books Davos reads Stannis a letter that convinces him to march on the Wall. There are so many other discrepancies that irk me to no avail and makes me angrier when people who have read the BOOKS claiming that the show is doing Stannis justice; because it's not.
PS: Re-read the fucking books
Also the boat scene (before Melissandre goes to fetch Gendry) where Stannis hugs Melissandre, Stannis looking like a man bent by ambition for the throne despite the books clearly state it is a sense of duty and right that spurs him on. The interaction between Stannis and his wife (his wife is portrayed as a religious fanatic but there are no reasons to portray her as a keeping-babies-in-a-bottle crazy. I really think you need to work on your reading skills if you think the show is doing Stannis and his family justice.
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On June 10 2013 21:45 Conti wrote:
It's amusing to see one half of the people complaining about the lack of cliffhangers and "things to look forward to", while the other half complains about revealing Season 4 plots that could have been kept secret to surprise people next season.
Those are not really mutually exclusive. In regards to "things to look forward to" I assume you mainly refer to the reveal that Stannis is going to the wall, rather than having it be a surprise next season. The information that Stannis is going to the wall is not a good cliffhanger at all. No one is excited about it (except perhaps some book readers because they know what to expect). It adds very little. However it does take away from Stannis' attack on the wildlings, which would be a great surprise.
They had plenty of things they could have chosen as cliffhangers which would minimally affect next season such as an introduction to coldhands or lady stoneheart.
As many book readers I'm not happy about the changes the tv show is making. I understand it is a different medium and you cannot follow the book blindly, but even so many changes are made that make absolutely no sense. Even if there was some reveal to the directors that Stannis turn evil in the unpuplished books, that should not have an effect on Stannis character at this point. That would be like changing Bran's fall to an accident because we know that Jaime later becomes more likable so we don't want to portray him as a monster.
Stannis' character has been made incredibly one-dimensional and simplistic. It is like the directors based their portrayal of Stannis of a book report by a 5th grade student. This is not about being a "Stannis-fan" (which I'm not), but it is about not collapsing an interesting and complex character with substantial development throughout the series to a monster that might as well have been the antagonist in one of Sansa's songs.
I'm not sure what is happening with Shae or Sansa either.I'm not sure what to think of Shae yet, I'm skeptical about her direction, but they may still tie it up nicely. If they make Shae a substitute for Tysha I don't see that working well. I'm more concerned about the Sansa character though. Giggling and gossiping with Tyrion is just so unlike what book Sansa would have done, she was growing deeply mistrustful at this point in the book. With her building up some amount of trust and maybe even affection for Tyrion the scarred Sansa to Alayne transition will be completely different. Littlefinger was supposed to break her down mentally before stealing her away, leaving a more cynical individual.
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It might happen that way with Shae, but it would make for a much weaker story line. TV Shae has always been one of my most disliked changes to the books though. TV Shae, the whore who's supposed to be in love, but always talks down to Tyrion and rarely actually shows any affection doesn't make much sense in the first place. I don't really see any reason that either one of them would be in love with the other based on their relationship in the show. Honestly Ros had a more affectionate relationship with Tyrion. I don't really see why Shae cares about Sansa either. She just seems to randomly love certain people because the writers say so.
I was disappointed in the Stannis/Davos scene. They killed one of the potential cliffhanger/reveals by making Davos Hand of the King in season 2. He should have been made Hand in that scene when he thinks Stannis is going to kill him. He should have made the arguement that only 1 king had died, and Stannis waits for all 3 before considering giving in, which is when Davos saves Edric (Gendry in this case). They have also kind of removed all the tension and conflict Davos had with Stannis's lords who did not respect him due to his birth. And Davos reminding Stannis that his duty is to the people and if he can't defend the people then he is no king at all. It could have been a great scene, worthy of the final scene of the season even.
I'm also not sure where the Yara story line is going. 50 men aren't going to take the Dreadfort or any manned castle, and certainly Roose Bolton and the rest of his armies would be coming back north shortly. Especially since on the show they have never mentioned the Greyjoys taking Moat Cailin, which was the whole reason Robb and the other northerners couldn't get up there in the first place. And Yara should be back for the King's Moot, which even though it happened in book 4, time line wise it happened during the events of book 3, Balon actually died before Robb did and Robb got news of it on the way to the RW.
Jaime coming back to Kingslanding before Joffrey dies will make for some interesting complications in that story line. I liked the episode as a whole, but there was plenty to nitpick. I expect next season will be the end of book 3, and some stuff from books 4 & 5. 4 and 5 will have to be wrapped up between next season and season 4 if they want to stick to their plan to finish the whole series in 7 seasons.
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I'm curious where they'll go with Yara's storyline, but I think I like the change. Remember that Theon's story happens in the background in the books, and Theon basically gets nothing but tortured for two whole books before he reappears. They can't just show that for two seasons. And they can't just not show Theon for the next season, either (Though, personally, I'd like that). So they will have to have some story. Yara trying to save Theon will be that story, it appears. We all know it's not gonna work out, but it might be interesting to watch, anyhow. And on top of that, it gives the Greyjoys something to do so the audience won't forget about them. Win-win.
It's been a while since I read the books. Can anyone tell me why Jaime being in King's Landing early is bad? Sure, they'll have to change some things, but they constantly change some things, more often than expected for the better. So what if Brienne sees Sansa? Catelyn is dead, and Tywin won't give Sansa to Brienne. And Brienne won't like that one bit. And all that will make for some interesting dialogues and scenes, actually, which I'm looking forward to. What else would need to happen now that Jaime is back too early?
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Perfect cliffhanger for me would be catelyn getting fished out of the water, then showing it's infact the resurrection guy who found her.
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Wasn't it Shae that figured out that it was once Varys in disguise when he was sneaking into her cottage. Couldn't she just be a better liar then Varys and has him fooled, making the whole Tywin bedding scene even more of a suprise for the audience, maybe with a little hint with Shae never seeing Tyrion in his cell...
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On June 10 2013 23:53 Conti wrote:
I'm curious where they'll go with Yara's storyline, but I think I like the change. Remember that Theon's story happens in the background in the books, and Theon basically gets nothing but tortured for two whole books before he reappears. They can't just show that for two seasons. And they can't just not show Theon for the next season, either (Though, personally, I'd like that). So they will have to have some story. Yara trying to save Theon will be that story, it appears. We all know it's not gonna work out, but it might be interesting to watch, anyhow. And on top of that, it gives the Greyjoys something to do so the audience won't forget about them. Win-win.
It's been a while since I read the books. Can anyone tell me why Jaime being in King's Landing early is bad? Sure, they'll have to change some things, but they constantly change some things, more often than expected for the better. So what if Brienne sees Sansa? Catelyn is dead, and Tywin won't give Sansa to Brienne. And Brienne won't like that one bit. And all that will make for some interesting dialogues and scenes, actually, which I'm looking forward to. What else would need to happen now that Jaime is back too early?
if brienne sees sansa what quest does she have left? find arya instead of sansa?
to the greyjoy story: is asha (yara is a disgusting name) really searching for theon in the show? while euron returns and balon dies? that doesn't make any sense.
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Yeah, I still think Shae's going to sleep with Tywin. Either for money or due to anger. The whole Varys scene was set up to show how pissed Shae is at Tyrion for trying to get rid of her in an underhanded way. To Shae, it looks like Tyrion is trying to kick her out so he can start sleeping with Sansa without any guilt.
Also, Daenerys' story is really entering the phase where I can't stand it anymore. People love to talk about realism and plot armor etc, but her storyline is always so ridiculous. Yes, let me waltz solo into a massive crowd of just-freed slaves, with absolutely no clue if there might be any hidden assassins or people bent on revenge hiding in their midst. None of my guards or generals will say a single word of dissent. Then I crowd surf on their hands, gleefully enjoying my supremely good deed while nobody stabs me in the kidneys. Just lol.
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On June 11 2013 00:15 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 23:53 Conti wrote:
I'm curious where they'll go with Yara's storyline, but I think I like the change. Remember that Theon's story happens in the background in the books, and Theon basically gets nothing but tortured for two whole books before he reappears. They can't just show that for two seasons. And they can't just not show Theon for the next season, either (Though, personally, I'd like that). So they will have to have some story. Yara trying to save Theon will be that story, it appears. We all know it's not gonna work out, but it might be interesting to watch, anyhow. And on top of that, it gives the Greyjoys something to do so the audience won't forget about them. Win-win.
It's been a while since I read the books. Can anyone tell me why Jaime being in King's Landing early is bad? Sure, they'll have to change some things, but they constantly change some things, more often than expected for the better. So what if Brienne sees Sansa? Catelyn is dead, and Tywin won't give Sansa to Brienne. And Brienne won't like that one bit. And all that will make for some interesting dialogues and scenes, actually, which I'm looking forward to. What else would need to happen now that Jaime is back too early? if brienne sees sansa what quest does she have left? find arya instead of sansa? to the greyjoy story: is asha (yara is a disgusting name) really searching for theon in the show? while euron returns and balon dies? that doesn't make any sense.
I have no idea what Brienne will do, but given that she's spend countless chapters just wandering around looking for Sansa, they might as well give her something else to do which will also make her spend countless episodes just wandering around. It's not gonna matter much one way or the other.
Yara does not need to be home when Euron returns and takes over. Her almost becoming queen was a minor plot point that can easily be ignored without any consequences.
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All of the king's moot stuff happens during the book 3 timeline, so it should be included next season if they aren't cutting it. And they almost have to include some version of it to introduce Euron and Victarion and Damphair, which gives them plenty for those guys and Yara to do. Or they delay Balon's death by a huge amount to bump the story line to season 5. Which is possible, but making up new Greyjoy stories to give them something to do seems like a waste of screen time in that case.
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Most likely they're going to focus more on the storylines that they showed in the last ep:
Jon Snow and Stannis at the Wall.
Arya becoming an assassin.
Tyrion and Tywin/Shae.
Joffrey.
Jamie and Cersei.
The Greyjoys.
Daenerys and her hordes of unwashed colored people who need surprisingly progressive white folk to liberate them.
Roose Bolton in the North.
Cersei + Loras and the other Tyrells.
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I'm annoyed that they confirmed that they killed off dagmer cleftjaw. He was supposed to be holding Torren's Square right now, not that it is of any consequence really. Still, he was pretty badass
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There is a post in the other thread about racial overtones but I cannot think of a way to talk about it there without getting a ban. IIRC the slaves should not all be black. Only summer islanders are black and most of the people in the slavers bay should be white. Am I wrong?
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On June 11 2013 00:15 fleeze wrote:
if brienne sees sansa what quest does she have left? find arya instead of sansa?
I honestly don't think it matters much, Brienne's story in Feast is almost entirely filler and unnecessary. The closest thing to important that happens during her quest is that she may or may not have run across the Hound on the Quiet Isle, up until she runs into Stoneheart. Everything else can and probably should be extremely shortened.
If anything they could have Brienne hanging around in KL and have Jaime send her after Sansa when she disappears during Joffrey's wedding feast.
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On June 11 2013 02:04 hzflank wrote:
There is a post in the other thread about racial overtones but I cannot think of a way to talk about it there without getting a ban. IIRC the slaves should not all be black. Only summer islanders are black and most of the people in the slavers bay should be white. Am I wrong?
They probably just took what kind of people were around in Morocco where they were filming. No reason to worry about something as stupid as race.
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On June 10 2013 23:30 rasnj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 21:45 Conti wrote:
It's amusing to see one half of the people complaining about the lack of cliffhangers and "things to look forward to", while the other half complains about revealing Season 4 plots that could have been kept secret to surprise people next season. I'm more concerned about the Sansa character though. Giggling and gossiping with Tyrion is just so unlike what book Sansa would have done, she was growing deeply mistrustful at this point in the book. With her building up some amount of trust and maybe even affection for Tyrion the scarred Sansa to Alayne transition will be completely different. Littlefinger was supposed to break her down mentally before stealing her away, leaving a more cynical individual.
This was supposed to show that Tryion was starting to make some progress with her, until Rob/Cat were killed. Now that thi happened, she mistrusts him just like in the books again, without it being Tyrions fault.
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On June 10 2013 20:21 Redox wrote:
Other than that, I am surprised people are not bitching about the biggest plot change so far. Shae is confirmed for truly loving Tyrion, and not the common whore she was in the books. So most probably she will not betray Tyrion, there will be no scene with Tyrion killing her etc. It will all be very different.
I didnt got away from her scenes thinking for a moment she loves him, if anything shes as petty and bitchy as ever
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as someone who despised reading books during youth, can't believe i read books 3, 4, 5 in relatively short time by my standards and now officially joined the bandwagon for winds of winter
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On June 11 2013 02:31 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 20:21 Redox wrote:
Other than that, I am surprised people are not bitching about the biggest plot change so far. Shae is confirmed for truly loving Tyrion, and not the common whore she was in the books. So most probably she will not betray Tyrion, there will be no scene with Tyrion killing her etc. It will all be very different. I didnt got away from her scenes thinking for a moment she loves him, if anything shes as petty and bitchy as ever
If she was just in it for the money then taking the diamonds and going would be the only logical choice. It seems pretty obvious that the writers want us to know TV Shae loves him, even though it makes little sense that she would, or that he would love her. Ros had a more affectionate relationship with Tyrion in season 1 before he met Shae. TV Shae spends most of her time with Tyrion bitching about something, and rarely shows affection, where in the books she was seductive and affectionate 90% of the time, to the point that even though Tyrion knew in his mind that she just loved his money, he wanted to believe the lie that she cared for him. Likewise it makes no sense that TV Shae would love Sansa, or "die for her". It's just changes the writers made up and they exist because they say so, with no strong explanation for why.
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EPT
