Top four teams in each group of Group Stage start in the Upper Bracket.
The 1st place in each group of Group Stage picks their opponent from either the 3rd or 4th placed team in the opposite group.
The 2nd place in each group plays the team that was not picked by the 1st place.
All Upper Bracket games are Bo3
For the first round, the higher seeded team has Selection Priority in games 1 and 3
In all other rounds, the first game Selection Priority is decided by coin toss and alternates for the second game. Another coin toss decides Selection Priority in case of a game 3.
Lower Bracket
5th-8th placed teams in each group of Group Stage start in the Lower Bracket.
The 5th place in each group of Group Stage picks their opponent from either the 7th or 8th placed team in the opposite group.
The 6th place in each group plays the team that was not picked by the 5th place.
First round is played in a Bo1 then all matches are played in a Bo3.
The higher seeded team has Selection Priority for the first round Bo1 game
In all other rounds, the first game Selection Priority is decided by coin toss and alternates for the second game. Another coin toss decides Selection Priority in case of a game 3.
Grand Finals
Grand Finals is played in a Bo5 with no game advantage.
Teams & Players
Matches
Upper Bracket Round 1 Tuesday, Aug 21 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
vs
Tuesday, Aug 21 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
vs
Lower Bracket Round 2 Tuesday, Aug 21 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
On August 21 2018 17:10 nojok wrote: Group B is slaughtered. It happens every TI, somehow one group ends up with a way better undersanding of the meta.
I think it was expected since group A had Liquid, LGD, Fnatic, Mineski. Then EG punched way above their weight and OG put in a decent showing. Actually, group A was probably stronger than first expected.
it kills me that the only way that optic could get through LBR4 is if they defeat LGD, who I want to win, or miraculously defeat liquid, which also isn't likely. That's ignoring that they'll have to defeat (probably) VP, as well.
How does optic get the shittiest brackets? The top half of UB/LB is grossly stronger than the bottom half. Brutal for everyone in that half.
On August 21 2018 22:59 Achaian wrote: it kills me that the only way that optic could get through LBR4 is if they defeat LGD, who I want to win, or miraculously defeat liquid, which also isn't likely. That's ignoring that they'll have to defeat (probably) VP, as well.
How does optic get the shittiest brackets? The top half of UB/LB is grossly stronger than the bottom half. Brutal for everyone in that half.
You're in luck! Losers of WB semis fall to the other side of the lower bracket (wouldn't make sense otherwise, you'd keep getting the same matchups). So the loser of LGD/Liquid will fall to the lower part of the LB. Optic would face them in LB round 5 if they get that far.
On August 21 2018 22:59 Achaian wrote: it kills me that the only way that optic could get through LBR4 is if they defeat LGD, who I want to win, or miraculously defeat liquid, which also isn't likely. That's ignoring that they'll have to defeat (probably) VP, as well.
How does optic get the shittiest brackets? The top half of UB/LB is grossly stronger than the bottom half. Brutal for everyone in that half.
You're in luck! Losers of WB semis fall to the other side of the lower bracket (wouldn't make sense otherwise, you'd keep getting the same matchups). So the loser of LGD/Liquid will fall to the lower part of the LB. Optic would face them in LB round 5 if they get that far.
That does make sense. It turns out the people making brackets are smarter than me, no wonder.
I suppose I would have run into that problem before looking at brackets, so I could have figured something was wrong with my prediction
On August 21 2018 22:59 Achaian wrote: it kills me that the only way that optic could get through LBR4 is if they defeat LGD, who I want to win, or miraculously defeat liquid, which also isn't likely. That's ignoring that they'll have to defeat (probably) VP, as well.
How does optic get the shittiest brackets? The top half of UB/LB is grossly stronger than the bottom half. Brutal for everyone in that half.
optic wouldn't have made it to upper bracket in group A, so I wouldn't call it bad luck.
On August 21 2018 22:59 Achaian wrote: it kills me that the only way that optic could get through LBR4 is if they defeat LGD, who I want to win, or miraculously defeat liquid, which also isn't likely. That's ignoring that they'll have to defeat (probably) VP, as well.
How does optic get the shittiest brackets? The top half of UB/LB is grossly stronger than the bottom half. Brutal for everyone in that half.
optic wouldn't have made it to upper bracket in group A, so I wouldn't call it bad luck.
My head and heart has VGJ.Storm and EG winning 2-0 in their matches As much as I love NA Dota, I want Serenity to win just because their squad is how Dota should be, a bunch of friends hanging out, cracking jokes, and playing some Dotes. Head says OpTic will win due to Peter "Leave China to me" Dager, unless they pull a Fnatic and get really cocky VP should beat Mineski, but my heart says Mineski
Top 3 would've likely been out of reach, but I don't see a reason why they wouldn't have been able to fight for fourth. Almost all teams were messy and super close together in the group stages, things might just as well have gone completely differently (outside the top seeds who were a step above) even with the groups we had. Hell, I think with slightly better shotcalling, IG might've challenged for UB instead of getting flat out eliminated.
Lower half of the upper brackets are going to be interesting..whoever wins vs secret & eg I feel has a free ticket to the next round, picked Secret to go far this time around.
I'm cautiously curious to see how the draft penalty affects Storm. If SVG can freestyle the draft with half time and win, it'll be impressive. They also have Resolution who really comes alive during TI. But OG have shown themselves to be incredibly resilient and they seem like the kinda team that can punish Storm.
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
yah. coffee etilist are terrible, they always tell you to go to that random coffee place 30 minutes from downtown to get a cup of coffee
like wtf, let me get a starbucks and be done with it
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
Yeah, but Tims is actually pretty trash for cheap coffee now. McDonalds is better (pretty sure they picked up Tim's old suppliers when they were ditched).
They've still got decent soups and sandwiches though.
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
yah. coffee etilist are terrible, they always tell you to go to that random coffee place 30 minutes from downtown to get a cup of coffee
like wtf, let me get a starbucks and be done with it
Why would you go to starbuck when you can just go to a random café?
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
yah. coffee etilist are terrible, they always tell you to go to that random coffee place 30 minutes from downtown to get a cup of coffee
like wtf, let me get a starbucks and be done with it
Why would you go to starbuck when you can just go to a random café?
Places like Tims/Starbucks are everywhere. They are generally really fast (most have a drive-through these days except the ones downtown). It's like any fast food place in the sense that it's easy. Also some people just don't care about high quality coffee. I enjoy my Iced Caps from Tims
On August 22 2018 02:16 PhoenixVoid wrote: Don't go to Tim Horton's for your coffee in Canada btw. It's painful to see one of our national icons be a mediocre coffee shop.
uh, I mean it's fine if you aren't a coffee elitist lol. They offer a lot of great stuff and I'm sure most coffee connoisseurs know that the big franchises (starbucks, tims, etc) aren't the places to go anyway.
yah. coffee etilist are terrible, they always tell you to go to that random coffee place 30 minutes from downtown to get a cup of coffee
like wtf, let me get a starbucks and be done with it
Why would you go to starbuck when you can just go to a random café?
Places like Tims/Starbucks are everywhere. They are generally really fast (most have a drive-through these days except the ones downtown). It's like any fast food place in the sense that it's easy. Also some people just don't care about high quality coffee. I enjoy my Iced Caps from Tims
We don't have Tims and very few starbucks around here, I'm not a big fan of those impersonal places regardless of the quality of their products.
This Chen pick has not worked out at all. Now he is kind of past his strongest point as well. Guess level 7 is it but since it is slow current time is probably it.
The heal to allow PL to get out might make it worth it later on.
On August 22 2018 03:11 Yurie wrote: This Chen pick has not worked out at all. Now he is kind of past his strongest point as well. Guess level 7 is it but since it is slow current time is probably it.
The heal to allow PL to get out might make it worth it later on.
PL is hitting critical mass but he's playing really badly right now. Like the casters said, left his team to chase a DK for the entire teamfight, literally the only guy he can't just easily (and most important quickly) kill in a 1on1. The mid thing just now...
If ana gets his shit together it looks scary but that's a big if
On August 22 2018 03:33 Yurie wrote: Sad they couldn't get the stun on Weaver before the WW ulti expired by the kill. Think you can still disable them even if you can't kill them?
They chained multiple stuns after. Weaver just didn't die, then they ran out.
On August 22 2018 03:33 Yurie wrote: Sad they couldn't get the stun on Weaver before the WW ulti expired by the kill. Think you can still disable them even if you can't kill them?
They chained multiple stuns after. Weaver just didn't die, then they ran out.
Meant at top when Enchantress was killed by weaver at tier 3. No stuns after.
Still OG even behind is playing well and coordinated. They may lose this but with a draft more competitive in the laning stage (Ench lul) this may go to 3 games.
On August 22 2018 03:35 Yurie wrote: This pause is a bit odd. They claimed crash but nobody disconnected.
If we see double instant buybacks I suggest they get 0 reserve time next games in series.
they have an arbitrator standing behind them in the booth, they wouldn't be cheat pausing.
Why not? Claim lag, arbitrator comes to check it out. You get 4 minutes pause with no way to verify since it is now working properly.
Only way to check it is super complicated with camera and trying to judge latency from clicks to what happens on screen or looking for skipping frames.
On August 22 2018 03:35 Yurie wrote: This pause is a bit odd. They claimed crash but nobody disconnected.
If we see double instant buybacks I suggest they get 0 reserve time next games in series.
they have an arbitrator standing behind them in the booth, they wouldn't be cheat pausing.
Why not? Claim lag, arbitrator comes to check it out. You get 4 minutes pause with no way to verify since it is now working properly.
Only way to check it is super complicated with camera and trying to judge latency from clicks to what happens on screen or looking for skipping frames.
On August 22 2018 03:46 ChickenDieAlive wrote: Wow, what a throw. So many players out of position and got picked off, especially Sneyking.
Let's stop throwing the word throw so leisurely. It's disrespectful to both teams trying their best.
If VGJ played together, OG would not have a chance. They were crushing until some random over-extensions. WTF was Sneyking doing so far from the team all the time?
Don't think this was that much of a throw, honestly. Like the casters said, VGJ.S really didn't have a way to deal with 6 slotted weaver. I think the most critical moments of the game were when OG kept their cool and didn't buyback on the PL, really think that's what won them the game. The game would be incredibly hard for OG with pl's buyback on cooldown.
On August 22 2018 03:52 cecek wrote: Lose lanes terribly, win anyway. Must be TI8 OG.
Don't think this was that much of a throw, honestly. Like the casters said, VGJ.S really didn't have a way to deal with 6 slotted weaver. I think the most critical moments of the game were when OG kept their cool and didn't buyback on the PL, really think that's what won them the game. The game would be incredibly hard for OG with pl's buyback on cooldown.
the zeus last pick was the real game winner, HUGE to control MSS es from blinking in (although that still didn't stop MSS most times lol)
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
Really?? I feel so bad for him. The biggest critic to Notail was directed to his motivation along this year. Now it all makes sense. But the professional scene doesn't stop and is harsh. For someone playing competitively there is no time to recover from something like that.
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
Really?? I feel so bad for him. The biggest critic to Notail was directed to his motivation along this year. Now it all makes sense. But the professional scene doesn't stop and is harsh. For someone playing competitively there is no time to recover from something like that.
Really? I thought Karrigan has a CS:GO female player as his g/f.
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
Really?? I feel so bad for him. The biggest critic to Notail was directed to his motivation along this year. Now it all makes sense. But the professional scene doesn't stop and is harsh. For someone playing competitively there is no time to recover from something like that.
VGJ vs OG g1 was kinda as interesting and arguably good as expected. although both teams seemed to play quite different to other upper bracket teams. maybe it were the picks. i'll look out for it in g2
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
Really?? I feel so bad for him. The biggest critic to Notail was directed to his motivation along this year. Now it all makes sense. But the professional scene doesn't stop and is harsh. For someone playing competitively there is no time to recover from something like that.
On August 22 2018 04:10 Papercappu wrote: did you guys know notail's gf leave him for karrigan the csgo player? i always wonder if thats why he performed so bad this year
Really?? I feel so bad for him. The biggest critic to Notail was directed to his motivation along this year. Now it all makes sense. But the professional scene doesn't stop and is harsh. For someone playing competitively there is no time to recover from something like that.
On August 22 2018 04:24 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't think Troll can carry as hard as PL did.
Ana also plays really super agressive from what I've seen. The 2 deaths he had this game did not have to happen at all and you don't have the safe on troll.
On August 22 2018 04:19 ChickenDieAlive wrote: Should be a free Storm game. There is nothing to lock him down at all.
Only if you can last 30 minutes.
Troll needs time to farm some items before he comes online.
I think that Troll need a bkb and maybe 1 or 2 items and that is his powerspike. Try to end the game with an Aegis and hope that your team provide you with enough control. Troll is not really a hard carry, you farm a bkb and a mobility item and go for the game.
OG is in danger of just getting continually picked off if they don't keep an advantage. OG has good teamfight heroes against VGJS but they could easily lose to pickoffs
How'd people call this an outdraft by OG? The only way OG wins is by grouping up and doing a timing push, but VGJ.S has every tool and more to deal with that. The egg is unlikely to get off but it doesn't need to for VGJ to win the fight.
who cares about EU vs NA, it's all about Group A vs Group B. So far it's Liquid, LGD and OG going through. If EG wins vs Secret all of group B is down in the lower bracket while all of Group A would be in top6 upper bracket
Just like TI5, EG's the last NA hope Although last year TL lost to iG in the first round of uppers and went on to win the whole thing, maybe something similar will happen this year
On August 22 2018 05:05 Chillander wrote: A power ranking isn't supposed to say where a team will place, its just based off the performance before the tournament
The odd times a power ranking is accurate are so boring btw, everyone is like "well I guess I agree" but if it's a bad power ranking, people go crazy because their favorite player is two ranks below its place and it produces nice discussions.
Super happy right now. Most of these guys have been flamed far too hard and far too unfairly.
Ana was flamed even when he was winning majors. Notail is the nicest and most personable guy in dota and has been flamed relentlessly for years, plus had his best mate backstab him. Ceb has been told he is shit for longer than both of them.
On August 22 2018 05:11 DropBear wrote: Super happy right now. Most of these guys have been flamed far too hard and far too unfairly.
Ana was flamed even when he was winning majors. Notail is the nicest and most personable guy in dota and has been flamed relentlessly for years, plus had his best mate backstab him. Ceb has been told he is shit for longer than both of them.
Being called bad at dota is not the worst thing in the world, no one got personal on them like some people can be with professional sportsmen or even Puppey.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
I hear ya. I always give a big fat vote for the team thats playing against EG.
If EG had a face off with Robert Mugabe I would still want them to lose
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
i'm not too fond of sumail tbh
i actually think the other 4 are quite nice, even artour is cool nowadays
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
i'm not too fond of sumail tbh
i actually think the other 4 are quite nice, even artour is cool nowadays
I can udnerstand why some would dislike him, but I dont mind his cockiness, I actually can appreciate a person who doesnt give a fuck about other people's opinions, probably because Im also like that sometimes :d
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Traitors and cocky former prodigies, what's to like about them?
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
As an OG fan? Well, I feel it's a dick move by S4 and Fly to just leave OG just before they have to go through the Open qualifier. Besides that? I'm just really not a fan of Sumail, he's good and all, but god I love to see him lose, I dunno why.
The only redeeming factors are RTZ and Crit, but the others are bigger negatives for me personally.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
At least he's got skills to go with the cockiness. Personally, I dont mind such people, its ok to have an ego in sports, perhaps not as much as Sumail but .. whatever he is still a kid.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
As an OG fan? Well, I feel it's a dick move by S4 and Fly to just leave OG just before they have to go through the Open qualifier. Besides that? I'm just really not a fan of Sumail, he's good and all, but god I love to see him lose, I dunno why.
The only redeeming factors are RTZ and Crit, but the others are bigger negatives for me personally.
Well OG are doing better than before ... if I were an OG fan, Id be happy for them.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
Cocky kid I understand. "Spoiled" and "rich" not so much.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
At least he's got skills to go with the cockiness. Personally, I dont mind such people, its ok to have an ego in sports, perhaps not as much as Sumail but .. whatever he is still a kid.
I mean he wasn't really cocky when he was getting murdered left, right and center as an offlaner
On August 22 2018 05:22 Slardar wrote: Sumail just playing for the money lol, poor guy corrupted already.
As long as I don't like Sumail at least he's being honest here. Most of the guys playing out there at TI are playing for the money, come on.
I wonder how much they love the game after practicing so hard. When athletes play sports there are all those drugs the body produces which helps enjoying the stuff even after years of practice and you can't practice more than a few hours a day anyway but when it comes to video games, you can actually practice the whole day and the effect on the body is vastly different.
Though the hunger to be the best at something is a big motor too, it's very human.
I think this TI has been good at having pause content and starting the next series fast. I start considering if I can manage a game between the series and realise I never could.
On August 22 2018 05:22 Slardar wrote: Sumail just playing for the money lol, poor guy corrupted already.
As long as I don't like Sumail at least he's being honest here. Most of the guys playing out there at TI are playing for the money, come on.
You can play for the love of the game and the money. I think legacy is what many of the players strive to achieve, but money is pretty much always related to titles so they go hand in hand.
I think many of the players, if paid satisfactorily, would be fine with that as long as they're winning.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
Cocky kid I understand. "Spoiled" and "rich" not so much.
You don't think sumail is rich? Sure, maybe he's not spoilt, I dunno him personally. But in what universe is he not rich?
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
Cocky kid I understand. "Spoiled" and "rich" not so much.
You don't think sumail is rich? Sure, maybe he's not spoilt, I dunno him personally. But in what universe is he not rich?
I mean I don't understand why you hate that he's rich. He's not rich because his parents gave him a boatload of money.
Or do you just hate anyone who wins Internationals?
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
Cocky kid I understand. "Spoiled" and "rich" not so much.
You don't think sumail is rich? Sure, maybe he's not spoilt, I dunno him personally. But in what universe is he not rich?
I mean I don't understand why you hate that he's rich. He's not rich because his parents gave him a boatload of money.
Or do you just hate anyone who wins Internationals?
I meant as a combination. Just being rich is not a negative trait in my eyes. But in combination with being cocky and young and spoilt (I think I meant it as he has a cushy life because of his money, I dunno) just makes it worse than if he was not rich as well. I dunno if that makes sense and don't really care at this point.
Let's go Secret! Puppey is the best villain of dota.
On August 22 2018 05:16 Dison92 wrote: Not usually a big fan of Secret, but I rather see them go ahead than this current roster of EG, so go Team Secret!
Really? seriously whats not to like about the current EG roster?
Sumail seems to me just like a spoiled rich cocky kid. That for me overrides everything else and makes me dislike the entire team. Eventho I love Arteezy and Fly.
Cocky kid I understand. "Spoiled" and "rich" not so much.
You don't think sumail is rich? Sure, maybe he's not spoilt, I dunno him personally. But in what universe is he not rich?
I mean I don't understand why you hate that he's rich. He's not rich because his parents gave him a boatload of money.
Or do you just hate anyone who wins Internationals?
We in europe tend to hate rich people for some reason, it's in the culture (and I think it's dumb most of the time).
Well OG are doing better than before ... if I were an OG fan, Id be happy for them.
I'm super happy for OG and how they are preforming, but that doesn't mean I can't be sad/salty etc at the two players, especially because it wasn't a given that OG would perform better, and there was a very big chance that they would be a fair bit worse after two of their star veteran players left.
And I'm still not a big fan of Sumail, so oh well.
The purpose of drafting morph is to win multiple lanes while needing minimal support for the morph lane itself. Well this is how power curve of new morph works anyway.
Runes are so big for an Alch team, Sumail may have lost the 5 first minutes on the lane, but his supports doesnt even have to gank, only take the runes.
On August 22 2018 05:53 ironcell wrote: Runes are so big for an Alch team, Sumail may have lost the 5 first minutes on the lane, but his supports doesnt even have to gank, only take the runes.
i don't even think he lost the first 5 minutes. You're supposed to out-lasthit and alch if you're a morph early on.
On August 22 2018 06:05 Kishin2 wrote: Disgustingly impressive.
What? They lost aegis, one core and one support (+BB) to kill two supports and one core, given the 16k gold lead, very very far from impressive, a .2 second triple stun is jackshit.
On August 22 2018 06:05 Kishin2 wrote: Disgustingly impressive.
What? They lost aegis, one core and one support (+BB) to kill two supports and one core, given the 16k gold lead, very very far from impressive, a .2 second triple stun is jackshit.
On August 22 2018 06:05 Kishin2 wrote: Disgustingly impressive.
What? They lost aegis, one core and one support (+BB) to kill two supports and one core, given the 16k gold lead, very very far from impressive, a .2 second triple stun is jackshit.
?
Are you seeing the way they're playing?
It's far from impressive, they've won the game earleir and riding the gold lead, it's nothing amazing, really. Anyone could yolo with this advantage.
edit : well maybe they should stop going full retard
On August 22 2018 06:05 Kishin2 wrote: Disgustingly impressive.
What? They lost aegis, one core and one support (+BB) to kill two supports and one core, given the 16k gold lead, very very far from impressive, a .2 second triple stun is jackshit.
?
Are you seeing the way they're playing?
It's far from impressive, they've won the game earleir and riding the gold lead, it's nothing amazing, really. Anyone could yolo with this advantage.
edit : well maybe they should stop going full retard
If you're not seeing the nuance then I have nothing to say.
Game has been over since 10 min mark and you guys are sucking EG dick for their plays after that when all they need to do is take fights as a team and cast spells.
On August 22 2018 06:13 babysimba wrote: Game has been over since 10 min mark and you guys are sucking EG dick for their plays after that when all they need to do is take fights as a team and cast spells.
I am on EG's dick for showing how Ursa is done right. In those first 10 minutes, indeed.
On August 22 2018 06:05 Kishin2 wrote: Disgustingly impressive.
What? They lost aegis, one core and one support (+BB) to kill two supports and one core, given the 16k gold lead, very very far from impressive, a .2 second triple stun is jackshit.
?
Are you seeing the way they're playing?
It's far from impressive, they've won the game earleir and riding the gold lead, it's nothing amazing, really. Anyone could yolo with this advantage.
edit : well maybe they should stop going full retard
If you're not seeing the nuance then I have nothing to say.
They're not playing well atm, like not at all, they're uncoordinated and lost some focus because of their lead, EG can play way better than they are atm.
The way EG positioned themselves in fights was immaculate. Just saying they had a laning advantage and snowballed isn't painting the full picture of their play.
Liquid would have ended that game at least 10 minutes earlier with the same lineup.
EG was playing sloppy because of their players' tendency to spread out the map and continue farming instead of just grouping up to end games decisively.
On August 22 2018 06:28 babysimba wrote: Liquid would have ended that game at least 10 minutes earlier with the same lineup.
EG was playing sloppy because of their players' tendency to spread out the map and continue farming instead of just grouping up to end games decisively.
Arteezy went blink -> abyssal. You can't force high ground until he gets bkb. His 2 deaths then delayed it a bit.
On August 22 2018 06:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: I mean are you guys just ignoring that Morphling always does big damage when he has farm?
Feels like a constant peanut gallery here. "Lolol 30k gold lead how are heroes still dying?"
Come on, RTZ was alone all the time feeding for no reason, he's never the hero you send to push lanes and being visible on the map...
A couple bad deaths, and a lot of good pickoffs on PL and Mirana and a lot of farm on an Ursa. That's just how EG plays. Farm on 3-4 heroes at all times, one hero dying is an acceptable tradeoff.
yea idk about faulting eg for waiting to force hg there when youre against a shotgun morph and walking up vision with your cores before getting pickoffs can make you lose your alch for massive gold swings
like
ursa and weaver are not great hg heroes and alch is still prone to burst until maxing out in slots and levels
On August 22 2018 06:33 Kishin2 wrote: Where's Hotbid at this event? He was on the talent lineup.
he's a content producer, not camera talent. You can maybe see him in a segment sometime
He was announced as broadcast talent though.
To be fair they always have people on that list that aren't technically broadcast talent (like the observers for example, or Torte last year who just did behind the scenes stats stuff). With that being said Hotbid could definitely appear on the after show at some point. Maybe even interviews? He's definitely doing more producing tho.
On August 22 2018 06:44 Chillander wrote: Puppey should pull out some pocket strat, he used to be the one you'd be sure to have something up his sleeve
On August 22 2018 06:44 Chillander wrote: Puppey should pull out some pocket strat, he used to be the one you'd be sure to have something up his sleeve
On August 22 2018 06:44 Chillander wrote: Puppey should pull out some pocket strat, he used to be the one you'd be sure to have something up his sleeve
Give me mid Dazzle. They've done it before.
Every time I've seen its been working. Which to be fair is like 3 timesl. Mid Dazzle, SF safelane
it's the trademarked rubick/ogre support duo, one lane lost for sure and no team fight presence. why have it easy when you can do it even if it's really hard
and by doing it, i mean going to the lower bracket
Ogre is so much fun when you can just do stuff like that in lane. Would be better with at least one level in Bloodlust, but apparently you skip that skill now.
On August 22 2018 07:00 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Ogre is so much fun when you can just do stuff like that in lane. Would be better with at least one level in Bloodlust, but apparently you skip that skill now.
Most pubs get at least one level in it still. Think it might be due to there being nobody farming with right clicks in his team.
On August 22 2018 07:00 M.S.Bismarck wrote: Ogre is so much fun when you can just do stuff like that in lane. Would be better with at least one level in Bloodlust, but apparently you skip that skill now.
i feel like double nukes was slept on for a long time when it couldve potentially been good due to lanes being more important relative to when the max bloodlust build was popular
and then the most recent buff to multicast just made ogres burst with a leveled fireblast a lot better
On August 22 2018 07:08 BigO wrote: Feels like Ace has not been playing up to par in this series thus far. Just seems like he makes to many mistakes that he shouldnt be doing.
the PL in game one felt really ineffective and i couldnt really tell if it was a player issue or draft issue
similarly, i cant tell if this necro is player issue or draft issue
On August 22 2018 07:08 BigO wrote: Feels like Ace has not been playing up to par in this series thus far. Just seems like he makes to many mistakes that he shouldnt be doing.
the PL in game one felt really ineffective and i couldnt really tell if it was a player issue or draft issue
similarly, i cant tell if this necro is player issue or draft issue
Game 1 he was getting caught out by Phoenix and Ursa ganks. Really shouldn't happen on a PL.
This game is frustrating to watch, I don't get secret's draft, they somehow make it work decently but EG helped them with dubious draft patterns and I can't foresee where secret are planning to go from there.
On August 22 2018 07:27 apes wrote: hot take i think both of these teams are pretty bad
I don't know, EG did some serious preparation for their drafts against secret and secret adapted on the fly which resulted with both teams being very far from their comfort zone.
Ace has been super underwhelming impact-wise. Dunno why he decided to fight uphill against all that firepower when he could have at least tried to run.
On August 22 2018 07:46 BigO wrote: WHoever made the call not to back off when Secret took midlane may have lost them the game. Was so obvious what was going to happen.
yea i agree this was the biggest mistake this game so far
On August 22 2018 07:46 BigO wrote: WHoever made the call not to back off when Secret took midlane may have lost them the game. Was so obvious what was going to happen.
yea i agree this was the biggest mistake this game so far
In hindsight, yes. In the situation, no. Honestly think it was the right call to make. Trying to end game 5vs4 instead of extending when they lose most 5vs5 team fights and are forced into base other times.
On August 22 2018 07:50 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: hmmmmm i wonder if theyll make drow less drow at some point
like
nerf the aura more
give her some other ability or a different active on a passive
They might lower her attack range or other things to make her worse of a laner. So you get a hero that loses all lanes and then grinds it back in mid game.
On August 22 2018 07:46 Stancel wrote: how did side gunner go from being a meme to core on gyro
idk how long youve not been watching for
but they buffed it a few patches in a row forever ago
i stopped caring about gyro after the removal of global call down
also no one picks him in SEA
You stopped caring about him after losing a bigger meme? That upgrade wasn't good back then either. Plus they put it back as a level 25 talent. Still not worth taking.
Secret Ace is so lousy in high level games. When play a low level games we will most probably think he is good but when u play high level games, u will see Ace is actually not that good.
On August 22 2018 07:50 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: hmmmmm i wonder if theyll make drow less drow at some point
like
nerf the aura more
give her some other ability or a different active on a passive
Despite her now terrible laning phase, the pros make her work and she's not the most interesting hero to watch, I prefer when she's just 5th pick material.
On August 22 2018 07:46 Stancel wrote: how did side gunner go from being a meme to core on gyro
idk how long youve not been watching for
but they buffed it a few patches in a row forever ago
i stopped caring about gyro after the removal of global call down
also no one picks him in SEA
You stopped caring about him after losing a bigger meme? That upgrade wasn't good back then either. Plus they put it back as a level 25 talent. Still not worth taking.
It was cool when you could build it just to cast the global call down and disassemble/sell it.
On August 22 2018 07:46 Stancel wrote: how did side gunner go from being a meme to core on gyro
idk how long youve not been watching for
but they buffed it a few patches in a row forever ago
i stopped caring about gyro after the removal of global call down
also no one picks him in SEA
You stopped caring about him after losing a bigger meme? That upgrade wasn't good back then either. Plus they put it back as a level 25 talent. Still not worth taking.
clearly you've never tried veil aghs octarine mid gyro
On August 22 2018 07:46 Stancel wrote: how did side gunner go from being a meme to core on gyro
idk how long youve not been watching for
but they buffed it a few patches in a row forever ago
i stopped caring about gyro after the removal of global call down
also no one picks him in SEA
You stopped caring about him after losing a bigger meme? That upgrade wasn't good back then either. Plus they put it back as a level 25 talent. Still not worth taking.
clearly you've never tried veil aghs octarine mid gyro
On August 22 2018 07:55 Kelefei2016 wrote: Secret Ace is so lousy in high level games. When play a low level games we will most probably think he is good but when u play high level games, u will see Ace is actually not that good.
Eh, his supports were garbage. Even though Yapzor played decent, its not a high impactful hero in this patch. Ogre is just straight garbage after early game. Ace payed well considering the circumstances, his item usage was on point and besides, it wasnt his job to carry that game, it was on MidOne and Fata, bioth which failed to itemize properly for that game.
that's some serious delusion by puppey. calling that a good pick is just a joke. they had no team fight and all they could do is maybe focus a core(if it wasn't swapped in time) while the enemies had 3 cores that all were going to just eat them in the meantime. not to forget that their lanes weren't particularly strong and that they had nothing vs bkbs. basically an all around fail draft focused on useless supports.
On August 22 2018 08:03 apes wrote: if someone told me a random 4k played that series under aces handle id believe them
High 4k playing at his top, maybe. Low 4k would have gotten like 5 cs in lane.
I think you overestimate how a 4k would do in pro games on a core. The pressure applied is so high that they would just chainfeed or end up in jungle just to not feed.
On August 22 2018 08:04 Kelefei2016 wrote: it is so obvious that both games, ace as carry but he is extremely low performance in both games. or we are overrated him all the while?
idk how overrated he was when not many people considered secret notably strong this whole year
i feel like most people wouldve just had him filed as one of those t2 core players who does the job but are clearly a tier below the actual t1 players
Secret just doesn't buyback well. They constantly buyback and get nothing out of it meanwhile other top teams are buying back and completely turning around fights and games.
On August 22 2018 08:04 Kelefei2016 wrote: it is so obvious that both games, ace as carry but he is extremely low performance in both games. or we are overrated him all the while?
idk how overrated he was when not many people considered secret notably strong this whole year
i feel like most people wouldve just had him filed as one of those t2 core players who does the job but are clearly a tier below the actual t1 players
I'm wondering if Envy's blog is still limiting the player pool Puppey has to choose from
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
On August 22 2018 07:55 Kelefei2016 wrote: Secret Ace is so lousy in high level games. When play a low level games we will most probably think he is good but when u play high level games, u will see Ace is actually not that good.
Eh, his supports were garbage. Even though Yapzor played decent, its not a high impactful hero in this patch. Ogre is just straight garbage after early game. Ace payed well considering the circumstances, his item usage was on point and besides, it wasnt his job to carry that game, it was on MidOne and Fata, bioth which failed to itemize properly for that game.
Necro can be carry, supp, nuker or even tanker, and it based on what the team wants and wish to. But in the games, ace juz cant kill, cant defend, cant nuke, cant tank, cant push but keep dying.
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
On August 22 2018 08:11 Slardar wrote: Was hoping for Fly & EG not to have a high placement after the OG abandonment but here we are. EG vs OG
with ogs shit laning throughout the tourney idk how og doesnt get stomped their only advantage might be in draft on how well they know fly and if they are successful in mindgaming him but... meh GOOG
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
true but they severely underestimated the power of gyro (gyro drow is super op lol) if yapzor wasnt the greediest support in the world he wouldve gotten a ghost scepter to help his damn team
secret shouldve won that game after that sumail pick and arteezy bb, yet they decide to fight trying to go for a 2nd set of racks when they could have reset and looked for arteezy and catch him off guard. that was game losing—> from a sizeable lead to 3 forced bbs into sitting in base cause of the bbs till eg end
On August 22 2018 08:06 nVme wrote: seriously what the fuk did secret expect to happen sticking around to push top hg after gyro respawned? that and the midone shivas over a hex.... duds
The impact of hex is not that great for 5 man pushing, with drow and vs at the back.
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
true but they severely underestimated the power of gyro (gyro drow is super op lol) if yapzor wasnt the greediest support in the world he wouldve gotten a ghost scepter to help his damn team
secret shouldve won that game after that sumail pick and arteezy bb, yet they decide to fight trying to go for a 2nd set of racks when they could have reset and looked for arteezy and catch him off guard. that was game losing—> from a sizeable lead to 3 forced bbs into sitting in base cause of the bbs till eg end
even if they didnt throw 3 bbs there they wouldve had to kill sumail twice to win the game, and the sumail pick leading up to that situation was arguably the most out of position core all game
i dont think they were in a winning position even if they backed off properly
On August 22 2018 08:04 Kelefei2016 wrote: it is so obvious that both games, ace as carry but he is extremely low performance in both games. or we are overrated him all the while?
In game one they sacked him offlane with ppy, the guy who didnt manage to hit 1 single useful curse all game. WW is a support that needs level 5 to be a presence on the lane to match weaver and venge. He was up against Weaver and Venge, both which can harass a lot. His top lane Mirana fed Ursa, a lane which they should have won and a hero that should have created space for him.
In game 2 they were simply outdrafted. Ace had a hard lane, a few rotations from Sumail made it even harder. During mid game, he avoided many deaths with eul/blademail. He itemized perfectly for the heroes he was up against and used the items on point all the time. That's all he can do, he is not a 1 man army to win alone against fed Gyro and Drow, both which can kill him pretty quickly. If he ghost shrouds, he gets nuked with Calldown+Rip, if he uses BKB Gyro + Drow right click him to death.
Im not saying Ace is top tier carry, but calling him low performance without looking at the whole picture isnt fair either.
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
true but they severely underestimated the power of gyro (gyro drow is super op lol) if yapzor wasnt the greediest support in the world he wouldve gotten a ghost scepter to help his damn team
secret shouldve won that game after that sumail pick and arteezy bb, yet they decide to fight trying to go for a 2nd set of racks when they could have reset and looked for arteezy and catch him off guard. that was game losing—> from a sizeable lead to 3 forced bbs into sitting in base cause of the bbs till eg end
even if they didnt throw 3 bbs there they wouldve had to kill sumail twice to win the game, and the sumail pick leading up to that situation was arguably the most out of position core all game
i dont think they were in a winning position even if they backed off properly
No, i guess they hope while taking the top lane, they could catch Drow but Yapzor is too afraid to initiate that. If they do, then likely they sacrifice 1 supp and exchange for drow, i think thats more worth cos if drow died, gyro cannot do much while tinker necro and mirana are still there.
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
true but they severely underestimated the power of gyro (gyro drow is super op lol) if yapzor wasnt the greediest support in the world he wouldve gotten a ghost scepter to help his damn team
secret shouldve won that game after that sumail pick and arteezy bb, yet they decide to fight trying to go for a 2nd set of racks when they could have reset and looked for arteezy and catch him off guard. that was game losing—> from a sizeable lead to 3 forced bbs into sitting in base cause of the bbs till eg end
even if they didnt throw 3 bbs there they wouldve had to kill sumail twice to win the game, and the sumail pick leading up to that situation was arguably the most out of position core all game
i dont think they were in a winning position even if they backed off properly
No, i guess they hope while taking the top lane, they could catch Drow but Yapzor is too afraid to initiate that. If they do, then likely they sacrifice 1 supp and exchange for drow, i think thats more worse cos if drow died, gyro cannot do much while tinker necro and mirana are still there.
yeah i think EG definitely baited the overextension there
they had drow without bb show and initiate, knowing that secret would be desperate to burst the drow with no bb and potentially just win off of that
but EG knew this and arteezy hit bkb as soon as possible
idk if yapzor still had swap or not but i kind of expected a yapzor swap on the drow that never came
On August 22 2018 08:04 Kelefei2016 wrote: it is so obvious that both games, ace as carry but he is extremely low performance in both games. or we are overrated him all the while?
In game one they sacked him offlane with ppy, the guy who didnt manage to hit 1 single useful curse all game. WW is a support that needs level 5 to be a presence on the lane to match weaver and venge. He was up against Weaver and Venge, both which can harass a lot. His top lane Mirana fed Ursa, a lane which they should have won and a hero that should have created space for him.
In game 2 they were simply outdrafted. Ace had a hard lane, a few rotations from Sumail made it even harder. During mid game, he avoided many deaths with eul/blademail. He itemized perfectly for the heroes he was up against and used the items on point all the time. That's all he can do, he is not a 1 man army to win alone against fed Gyro and Drow, both which can kill him pretty quickly. If he ghost shrouds, he gets nuked with Calldown+Rip, if he uses BKB Gyro + Drow right click him to death.
Im not saying Ace is top tier carry, but calling him low performance without looking at the whole picture isnt fair either.
Safelane necro is not hard at all if played against vs weaver. He juz keep running backoff while being hit. Sometimes juz fight and 1-1 exchange is not bad. Gyro and drow juz happily hitting a running necro cos they know he wont bite back, and it down to 4 vs 5 when one of the hero is keep running in the team fight. And necro should buy forcestaff for him besides eul, man u gonna stand in a correct path to do something. What i saw in the game in: fuck, i m being hit, blademail and run... And died.
On August 22 2018 08:07 PhoenixVoid wrote: I remember MP was similarly deemed underwhelming, so maybe it's just how Secret like to play with their 1s.
think the main reason for secrets carrys to be underwhelming is that yapzor is a greedy fuk and doesnt seem to want to give up farm to his carries even if they are behind
Kind of, also they are saccing Ace whenever it is possible, and Fata takes his "position" most of the time. I remember Ace playing solo Weaver and solo Spectre against a 3 lane, he does that all the time.
However, his positioning and item build in this game as Necro was questionable at the best. Getting Eul first into Force Staff would make him far more durable, Blade Mail did absolutely nothing. He was too afraid to use Reaper a lot of times. When he gets hit by Calldown, all he could do is Ghost Shroud, Blade Mail and hope for the best while bunch of Zombies stack on him, he didn't have any escape tool, and Force Staff would have changed that.
true but they severely underestimated the power of gyro (gyro drow is super op lol) if yapzor wasnt the greediest support in the world he wouldve gotten a ghost scepter to help his damn team
secret shouldve won that game after that sumail pick and arteezy bb, yet they decide to fight trying to go for a 2nd set of racks when they could have reset and looked for arteezy and catch him off guard. that was game losing—> from a sizeable lead to 3 forced bbs into sitting in base cause of the bbs till eg end
even if they didnt throw 3 bbs there they wouldve had to kill sumail twice to win the game, and the sumail pick leading up to that situation was arguably the most out of position core all game
i dont think they were in a winning position even if they backed off properly
No, i guess they hope while taking the top lane, they could catch Drow but Yapzor is too afraid to initiate that. If they do, then likely they sacrifice 1 supp and exchange for drow, i think thats more worse cos if drow died, gyro cannot do much while tinker necro and mirana are still there.
yeah i think EG definitely baited the overextension there
they had drow without bb show and initiate, knowing that secret would be desperate to burst the drow with no bb and potentially just win off of that
but EG knew this and arteezy hit bkb as soon as possible
idk if yapzor still had swap or not but i kind of expected a yapzor swap on the drow that never came
Yes, the yapzor swap correctly made Secret took.down the midlane, and i was expecting he swap or catch drow at top lane but this was not happened.
LGD ain't getting past Liquid, and I doubt EG can do it either. They have a matchup disadvantage because Liquid actually beat them in lanes if they put their minds to it
On August 22 2018 08:35 Kelefei2016 wrote: Safelane necro is not hard at all if played against vs weaver. He juz keep running backoff while being hit. Sometimes juz fight and 1-1 exchange is not bad. Gyro and drow juz happily hitting a running necro cos they know he wont bite back, and it down to 4 vs 5 when one of the hero is keep running in the team fight. And necro should buy forcestaff for him besides eul, man u gonna stand in a correct path to do something. What i saw in the game in: fuck, i m being hit, blademail and run... And died.
Lol, when 5 heroes focus you and you got 0 support yes. Thats why he bought eul/blademail to compensate for garbage supports. Forcestaff might be somewhat useful but thats another supoport/utility item. You kinda proving my point anyway, but you've entered an argument you cant win so just dance around the same thing I've been saying from start: they got outdrafted and his supports were garbage. That makes him ineffective carry? Cool, more power to you.
On August 22 2018 09:20 ChickenDieAlive wrote: Hmm, how did Fnatic lose to this?
In Bo1 anything can happen, and Fnatic had shitty draft and didn't play well, while at the same time let Necro through the draft that single handedly destroyed Ursa's lane and got too fat, they couldn't scratch him in team fights.
On August 22 2018 10:04 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: also 33
who is supposed to be carrying this team with outplays
is chainfeeding
Well this is exactly the same excuse cores in pubs use to blame their desperate offlaner trying to create space when the 2 cores themselves lost lanes and can't do anything lol.
On August 22 2018 10:04 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: also 33
who is supposed to be carrying this team with outplays
is chainfeeding
Well this is exactly the same excuse cores in pubs use to blame their desperate offlaner trying to create space when the 2 cores themselves lost lanes and can't do anything lol.
the thing is, it feels like he kept looking to start fights and not even waiting for serenity to try to punish their greed
im not convinced serenity wouldve punished the 2 cores even if he didnt try running at them randomly
On August 22 2018 10:10 Faruko wrote: So wait, they lost PL and support tiny + lich thought they could kill them? I was expecting more rotation
Am i missing something? 🤔
They're playing like they still have level advantage and power over the opposition. But now all the enemies are tankier and all their damage sources are weaker, so it's failing hard
The enemy offlaner is doing more damage than their entire team at this point it seems like, and one of his abilities requires you to hurt him
On August 22 2018 10:19 pellejohnson wrote: Hmm is this legit the worst start to any TI playoff? Every single game so far has been a 2-0 and honestly at this point I'm losing all interest.
reminder ti4 patch was actually the best patch and the only reason it looked bad is because everyone choked against vg's deathball and then vg choked against nb who werent even really playing the same kind of deathball but it didnt matter cuz they lost 3 games in under like 15 minutes each
reminder both c9 and eg took ti4 vg to g3 and looked like they couldve done it without deathball but then c9 decided to level 1 rosh and eg put the wrong players on the wrong heroes
I love how you guys suddenly started bandwagoning about the patch when we had great games in the group stages. Yeah, you can't get all of the matches to be good, teams aren't equal in skill and there is a lot of outdrafting and outlaning currently going on, get over it.
On August 22 2018 10:33 IshinShishi wrote: so I'm gonna start watching from this point forward, how is the overall level this year?
Liquid, LGD, EG are playing well, especially Liquid (much more confident than in TI7 where they just cheesed people). The rest of the tournament is a clownfest
On August 22 2018 10:34 Ramiz1989 wrote: we had great games in the group stages.
The patch needs to be adjusted a bit to account for dual lanes, especially to buff some supports who worked well in trilanes but are atrocious in dual lanes (mostly due to long CDs). Other than that the patch is one of the best we've had and the games have been pretty enjoyable so far.
On August 22 2018 11:00 IshinShishi wrote: someone explain why VP's performance has been so shitty thus far
They were trying out(or perhaps practicing them before) a lot of different drafts that don't suit their style. First game against LGD they have picked Visage for Ramzes and Enigma for Pasha, that's the first time I've seen those players on those heroes to be honest. They were also very aggressive team and are known for crushing lanes, but they have been picking a lot of lane losing heroes lately and try to do something in mid game. I just don't know.
This game will be a problem for them, DW and WK is good lane, and Undying with Necrophos is disgusting lane.
2 invokers last 3 months for VP. Not standard exactly. Went well against Team Serenity but had totally different supporting cast. Up to clinkz to enable Invoker in team fights.
On August 22 2018 11:14 Yurie wrote: Interesting how no invis builds is so common on treant. I actually like it more than max invis.
Well yeah, this is "win lanes" build, and great in 2v2 match ups, maxing invis is great for roaming/harassing solo offlaner.
If you have the stronger dual lane invis and leech seed allows you to get up to them, trade and get kills if they mess up at any point. Think they could have tried for a kill lane with 1/2 and then living armor max.
No invis is for when you have a weaker lane where you will never be able to trade since you would just die. Or Beastmaster or similar heroes that leave no trees up.
Since he really wants max living armor doing 1/1 into 1/1/4 is probably the best way.
On August 22 2018 11:14 Yurie wrote: Interesting how no invis builds is so common on treant. I actually like it more than max invis.
Well yeah, this is "win lanes" build, and great in 2v2 match ups, maxing invis is great for roaming/harassing solo offlaner.
If you have the stronger dual lane invis and leech seed allows you to get up to them, trade and get kills if they mess up at any point. Think they could have tried for a kill lane with 1/2 and then living armor max.
No invis is for when you have a weaker lane where you will never be able to trade since you would just die. Or Beastmaster or similar heroes that leave no trees up.
I mean I would get 1 level in invis anyway whatever the lanes are, but they have been maxing Leech seed lately at least from what I've seen, it allows better trades and it allows hard diving. Heal is massive, its over 420 or something like that.
On August 22 2018 11:14 Yurie wrote: Interesting how no invis builds is so common on treant. I actually like it more than max invis.
Well yeah, this is "win lanes" build, and great in 2v2 match ups, maxing invis is great for roaming/harassing solo offlaner.
If you have the stronger dual lane invis and leech seed allows you to get up to them, trade and get kills if they mess up at any point. Think they could have tried for a kill lane with 1/2 and then living armor max.
No invis is for when you have a weaker lane where you will never be able to trade since you would just die. Or Beastmaster or similar heroes that leave no trees up.
I mean I would get 1 level in invis anyway whatever the lanes are, but they have been maxing Leech seed lately at least from what I've seen, it allows better trades and it allows hard diving. Heal is massive, its over 420 or something like that.
I pretty much always play 1/1 into 1/2 into 1/2/1 into 1/4/1/1 into 1/4/4/1. Sometimes stop at 2 levels of leech if lane is just hopeless and we can't fight for 5 mins.
Never really been a fan of the 4/2/0/1 builds. Those I don't really understand in most games.
Those pushes that forces 6 living armors to heal up do matter. Means it will be on cd in sudden ganks or that you can't heal if you expect a fight so it doesn't fully heal quickly. Much more noticeable if you don't go max living armor where level 1 of it just doesn't feel worth healing a tower with.
On August 22 2018 11:40 Shergal wrote: what is UP with teams and invisible heroes
Invis = invincibility
WK aghs has been super popular this tournament. Never seen it work out all that great though.
edit, a more serious responce. Invis costs money for supports. So they are poor and can't afford save items. Allowing the invis heroes to keep feeding off them. Late games cores can't carry detection so if you pick off supports you can often just walk away.
The other thing we see with treant and nyx is scouting . Free ward and setup that you need to spend 100 gold a minute as support to make less effective, not stop.
On August 22 2018 11:40 Shergal wrote: what is UP with teams and invisible heroes
Invis = invincibility
WK aghs has been super popular this tournament. Never seen it work out all that great though.
edit, a more serious responce. Invis costs money for supports. So they are poor and can't afford save items. Allowing the invis heroes to keep feeding off them. Late games cores can't carry detection so if you pick off supports you can often just walk away.
this has always been true, however in the past top teams have never been so sloppy with preemptive sentries and generally knowing how to move against invis threat
On August 22 2018 11:40 Shergal wrote: what is UP with teams and invisible heroes
Invis = invincibility
WK aghs has been super popular this tournament. Never seen it work out all that great though.
edit, a more serious responce. Invis costs money for supports. So they are poor and can't afford save items. Allowing the invis heroes to keep feeding off them. Late games cores can't carry detection so if you pick off supports you can often just walk away.
this has always been true, however in the past top teams have never been so sloppy with preemptive sentries and generally knowing how to move against invis threat
I think it is an evolving game. You have the defensive side with sentries and positioning working against it. Then offensive side that splits map, gets money and moves around your moves. I think people have become better at dodging the 5 man balls that invis prompts and splitting up for money advantage.
Position 6 supports aren't wanted any longer either. It was them that used to get all that detection. Now you want a saving or initiating item even on them so they skimp as much as they can.
On August 22 2018 11:46 Ramiz1989 wrote: Very unlucky aegis timeout.
Hardly anything but unlucky, both teams for sure know aegis timers. Wasn't it on invoker anyway? edit: never mind i'm dumb; aegis timers they knew for sure though
On August 22 2018 11:47 Kishin2 wrote: Spending all your networth on wards as a 5 support is actually so fun. Feels good when you win the game with most spent on support items.
Feels horrible when you lose. Always feel like blaming my teammates, even though most of the time it was me they were feeding on.
On August 22 2018 11:40 Shergal wrote: what is UP with teams and invisible heroes
Invis = invincibility
WK aghs has been super popular this tournament. Never seen it work out all that great though.
edit, a more serious responce. Invis costs money for supports. So they are poor and can't afford save items. Allowing the invis heroes to keep feeding off them. Late games cores can't carry detection so if you pick off supports you can often just walk away.
this has always been true, however in the past top teams have never been so sloppy with preemptive sentries and generally knowing how to move against invis threat
I think it is an evolving game. You have the defensive side with sentries and positioning working against it. Then offensive side that splits map, gets money and moves around your moves. I think people have become better at dodging the 5 man balls that invis prompts and splitting up for money advantage.
Position 6 supports aren't wanted any longer either. It was them that used to get all that detection. Now you want a saving or initiating item even on them so they skimp as much as they can.
if you don't have detection, then don't make moves that blatantly play into invis heroes' advantage. it's just sloppy moves like serenity trying to 3-man push a t1 against a nyx and having no cover, or mineski being set up for like a minute and not putting a sentry on the most likely clinkz path
On August 22 2018 11:40 Shergal wrote: what is UP with teams and invisible heroes
Invis = invincibility
WK aghs has been super popular this tournament. Never seen it work out all that great though.
edit, a more serious responce. Invis costs money for supports. So they are poor and can't afford save items. Allowing the invis heroes to keep feeding off them. Late games cores can't carry detection so if you pick off supports you can often just walk away.
this has always been true, however in the past top teams have never been so sloppy with preemptive sentries and generally knowing how to move against invis threat
I think it is an evolving game. You have the defensive side with sentries and positioning working against it. Then offensive side that splits map, gets money and moves around your moves. I think people have become better at dodging the 5 man balls that invis prompts and splitting up for money advantage.
Position 6 supports aren't wanted any longer either. It was them that used to get all that detection. Now you want a saving or initiating item even on them so they skimp as much as they can.
if you don't have detection, then don't make moves that blatantly play into invis heroes' advantage. it's just sloppy moves like serenity trying to 3-man push a t1 against a nyx and having no cover, or mineski being set up for like a minute and not putting a sentry on the most likely clinkz path
I agree it is sloppy. The problem comes in the mixed message they get. They need items and detection and the team never clears up that they should just ignore items and a pos 3 getting vlad or something is needed to compensate.
Always look funny when a core does BKB with linken still up. Then you consider that they could get chainstunned into death in 2s and it is the right move. :p
On August 22 2018 12:00 BigO wrote: HOLY SHIT! Didnt know Noone was that good at Invoker!
He is really good on a lot of heroes, people just think that he isn't good on playmaking heroes but just on scaling cores that could be played mid which isn't true, he plays a lot of Invoker and Storm in pubs, he plays Visage as well.
On August 22 2018 12:00 IshinShishi wrote: mushi shouldn't have died to invoker, everything went to shit from there
What do you mean "from there"? That was the end of the fight lol, everyone bought back at that point already. Even if he didn't die there VP would still take the fight convincingly, Necro was on 1/5 hp with no cooldowns, he really wouldn't have done anything.
Or did you mean his first death? Because I didn't see how he died first time lol.
Man this TI vp version is shit. Where's the swagger. They're playing and drafting so unlike themselves. They're respecting the meta too much and playing catch up
On August 22 2018 12:00 IshinShishi wrote: mushi shouldn't have died to invoker, everything went to shit from there
What do you mean "from there"? That was the end of the fight lol, everyone bought back at that point already. Even if he didn't die there VP would still take the fight convincingly, Necro was on 1/5 hp with no cooldowns, he really wouldn't have done anything.
Or did you mean his first death? Because I didn't see how he died first time lol.
I watched it again on 0.25x speed, mushi wasted scythe on rodjer without killing him, took too long to BB when everyone did it instantly, came back into the fight 4x1 (DK was pretty much dead) and then got picked off by an invis invoker because he wouldn't retreat after almost dying trying to save the already dead DK. So yea, mushi lost pretty much by himself.
Necrolyte has always been a positional hero that lacks resources when caught, Mushi showed us that he absolutely blows at that the entire game.
I feel like its a huge mistake to put Mushi on heroes that need to be doing predictable things right, he is the guy with good reflexes and flashy plays, not a LoH type of player.
Iceiceice didn't seem very bothered by that loss. Was smiling when the interview started.
Might be more bothered later on when it has time to sink in. With the artifact thing it sounds like a dota break for a while. Though most players take their yearly vacation after TI.
Don't understand why they keep giving iceiceice a hero that doesn't skirmish well without items. How does he make plays. And when they give him pango, the team drafts no carries to go along. Right from the drafts Mineski have loss the game. Basically they paid too much attention to the meta and not play to their strengths.
On August 22 2018 13:34 DucK- wrote: Don't understand why they keep giving iceiceice a hero that doesn't skirmish well without items. How does he make plays. And when they give him pango, the team drafts no carries to go along. Right from the drafts Mineski have loss the game. Basically they paid too much attention to the meta and not play to their strengths.
Yeah 71 really put them in some bad situations drafting this tournament.
If you look at their play when they were behind, they were able to coordinate and put up fights when they were behind in games. It makes you wonder how they would have done if they ever won an early game...
Iceiceice was pretty disappointing this tournament, along with Jabz. The others played fine, but I think they have to say goodbye to 71 after this at the very least.
Congratulation to the winner and of course to Valve that eventually find a meta that suit the Westerner most. There was almost absence of Death Prophet in this TI8 which was fully played by Easterner well previously. And PL too. So the ultimate aegis winner goes to.... VALVE... Yeah...
Damn I wish we had separate thread for all the nice things that happened on TI8. Starting from Gaben announcer pack + short Gaben clips that were hilarious, to EG doing nice PR and giving away RTZ jerseys to the father and his son that plays DotA2 and other memes.
On August 22 2018 13:34 DucK- wrote: Don't understand why they keep giving iceiceice a hero that doesn't skirmish well without items. How does he make plays. And when they give him pango, the team drafts no carries to go along. Right from the drafts Mineski have loss the game. Basically they paid too much attention to the meta and not play to their strengths.
Yeah 71 really put them in some bad situations drafting this tournament.
If you look at their play when they were behind, they were able to coordinate and put up fights when they were behind in games. It makes you wonder how they would have done if they ever won an early game...
Iceiceice was pretty disappointing this tournament, along with Jabz. The others played fine, but I think they have to say goodbye to 71 after this at the very least.
A coach that doesn't play dota has no place in the drafting seat
On August 22 2018 16:20 Kelefei2016 wrote: Congratulation to the winner and of course to Valve that eventually find a meta that suit the Westerner most. There was almost absence of Death Prophet in this TI8 which was fully played by Easterner well previously. And PL too. So the ultimate aegis winner goes to.... VALVE... Yeah...
ye i agree the game should be balanced around a region's comfort picks
On August 22 2018 16:20 Kelefei2016 wrote: Congratulation to the winner and of course to Valve that eventually find a meta that suit the Westerner most. There was almost absence of Death Prophet in this TI8 which was fully played by Easterner well previously. And PL too. So the ultimate aegis winner goes to.... VALVE... Yeah...
Just lol, this has to be one of the most ridiculous comments that I've seen.
Adapting to the game, meta and picks is a huge part of the competitive scene, if you can't adapt then you are out, it is simple as that. Whining how this TI isn't "fair" because picks don't suit eastern teams is just hilarious. Death Prophet was also very well played by other teams as well, PL is very popular pick right now, you don't even have arguments, you are whining just for the sake of whining(or because your team lost which might be the case).
Half these teams aren't even prepared for the meta because they didn't have a tournament before TI to practice it, you see them forcing some strategies and picks that are in the meta at the moment, and that just doesn't suit their playstyle and not doing well with them, you can't blame anyone but those teams.
On August 22 2018 16:20 Kelefei2016 wrote: Congratulation to the winner and of course to Valve that eventually find a meta that suit the Westerner most. There was almost absence of Death Prophet in this TI8 which was fully played by Easterner well previously. And PL too. So the ultimate aegis winner goes to.... VALVE... Yeah...
Just lol, this has to be one of the most ridiculous comments that I've seen.
Adapting to the game, meta and picks is a huge part of the competitive scene, if you can't adapt then you are out, it is simple as that. Whining how this TI isn't "fair" because picks don't suit eastern teams is just hilarious. Death Prophet was also very well played by other teams as well, PL is very popular pick right now, you don't even have arguments, you are whining just for the sake of whining(or because your team lost which might be the case).
Half these teams aren't even prepared for the meta because they didn't have a tournament before TI to practice it, you see them forcing some strategies and picks that are in the meta at the moment, and that just doesn't suit their playstyle and not doing well with them, you can't blame anyone but those teams.
Ya, DAC was dominated by Easterner and rendered urge to nerf DP, which was well-played by easterner. Easterners are very well in the playstyle of small group catch and hunt, but westerner are good in teamfight. If one wanna counter this, we need to nerf DP (2 heroes cant really hunt DP, but in teamfight 5v5 DP is rather slow in damage output, he is kind of slow sustained hero), and by the same time "upgrade" VS, which is perfectly abused hero by western team.
Aliens built the pyramids, the Earth is flat, we never landed on the Moon and Valve creates a patch that favors westerners right before TI. And whats more interesting, all these 4 things are part of the same plan. dun dun dun
Wasn't the player with best win rate on VS part of Mineski, an Eastern team? (excluding players with less than 5 games) Nahaz said something to that effect in one of his 60s segments at least.
EPT
The International/2018/Main Event
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