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On September 29 2015 05:14 TomatoBisque wrote:
Game 1 wasn't as extreme but neither game was particularly close, no
What are you on about?
MB was winning in the mid-game, and just threw away the game by getting careless the moment they were on top. The Roshan play was just utterly bone-headed.
In no way, shape or form was that not a close game.
MB had to repeatedly throw and feed and even after that, they could have won if they had just locked themselves in base instead of sending 3 people to run around like chickens and get killed.
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On September 29 2015 13:49 AT.Epiphany wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 05:14 TomatoBisque wrote:
Game 1 wasn't as extreme but neither game was particularly close, no What are you on about? MB was winning in the mid-game, and just threw away the game by getting careless the moment they were on top. The Roshan play was just utterly bone-headed. In no way, shape or form was that not a close game. MB had to repeatedly throw and feed and even after that, they could have won if they had just locked themselves in base instead of sending 3 people to run around like chickens and get killed.
people who say game 1 was not close have no faith in n0tail to carry
people who say game 1 was close have faith in n0tail to carry
also MB was winning for about 5 minutes of game 1
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MB got one good teamfight and some pickoffs, but n0tail was behind all game (he was barely ahead of the ogre for a good portion of the early game) because he just died over and over and then spent what money he did get from comeback gold on a mjollnir (why?)
This left Miracle in a position where he had to solo carry vs. Lina, Beastmaster, and PA.
5jungz also got the first 2 roshes uncontested, and the third one was basically MB handing it to them along with a Miracle + dual support kills
MB also had no natural diffusal carrier, which forced Moon to build one just to have a chance, which is even more gold that MB spent on suboptimal items
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On September 29 2015 15:47 TomatoBisque wrote:
MB got one good teamfight and some pickoffs, but n0tail was behind all game (he was barely ahead of the ogre for a good portion of the early game) because he just died over and over and then spent what money he did get from comeback gold on a mjollnir (why?)
This left Miracle in a position where he had to solo carry vs. Lina, Beastmaster, and PA.
5jungz also got the first 2 roshes uncontested, and the third one was basically MB handing it to them along with a Miracle + dual support kills
MB also had no natural diffusal carrier, which forced Moon to build one just to have a chance, which is even more gold that MB spent on suboptimal items
I don't really agree with this assessment.
In the first place, 5J had only one real carry, and this was bound to be a huge problem in the late-game if both teams played optimally. Lina wasn't being played as a core at all and BM is simply not a carry, no matter how farmed he is. Meanwhile despite feeding, NoTail caught up to some extent, especially in the middle and in any case, an Ember being better than a BM or Lina in late game is inevitable. On top of that, Ogre Magi and Omniknight do little offensively in a big team-fight putting an enormous burden on the PA. If you asked me to pick a side at around the 35 minute mark, it would be Radiant every single time.
This is a positional assessment, like I would make in a game of chess. Radiant is objectively better there, and it's not even close. The Gold difference understates Radiant's position and how big the SF was at this point. Even after the Roshan throw, they could have won if they had locked themselves in base and defended high-ground rather than getting slaughtered like chickens on some rather aimless expeditions out of their base.
Put two elite teams in that game from 35 and I'm positive Radiant wins 70% of the time at least.
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That game 1 looked to be a stomp for 5jungz, but then MB started getting pickoffs on them a few times and it became relatively close. But even when the game went a bit later I don't think the game was terrible for 5jungz lineup wise given the farm both teams had. MB had nothing they could do against a PA with a BKB. They also can't really burst the PA in a fight pre BKB unless they somehow manage to find and disable the Omniknight at the same time, and even then it may not work. They probably also have to disable the BM so that he doesn't just roar the SF and prevent him from right clicking. For Ember to make any sort of contribution lategame he needed more items, and BM, Lina and Ogre can be monsters with their ability to lock down and burst a single target. While Lina and Ogre weren't "cores", they both were getting their aghs up (I believe Lina had hers at a pretty good timing), which already makes their contribution in a fight generally bigger than Ember with those items.
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But it wasn't two elite teams, it was MB and 5jungz. I've won games with 5 carries vs. a more balanced lineup in stupidly lopsided games, just because the game would have gone the other way if people were better doesn't mean it's close. If it was two better teams, maybe Ember wouldn't have fed, he wouldn't have gone mjollnir, Radiant wouldn't have given up every rosh, etc.
But that's not what happened, and saying the game was close based off some fictional scenario where teams played better is silly
I'm also pretty much gonna agree with spudde's post above, adding that Lina definitely had agh's by 35 minutes, probably got it closer to 30 minutes. You're really disrespecting the amount of lockdown and damage that 5jungz's supports had, not to mention how tanky they were, which would be a huge problem considering that MB's supports are pretty defensive (Dazzle, and then Rubick's best steals are Omni spells and Roar/Laguna)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Doom/Nightstalker picks hype boys.
EDIT: Oh, come on s4, why you gotta pick bad heroes.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Lol, Alliance are keeping it true to their roots.
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the fuck is this alliance draft lol. i don't think vega can lose this
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orangey yellowish draft + wisp
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Battle Cry seems stupidly strong now.
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double helm of dom double necrobook inc
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
I wonder... dominated catapults get battle cry buff? I could see it being hilarious (if not for hilarious low BAT of them).
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
And now, guys, we learn, why Chinese almost always played LD as 1 position in tri-lane.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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On September 30 2015 00:20 lolfail9001 wrote:
I wonder... dominated catapults get battle cry buff? I could see it being hilarious (if not for hilarious low BAT of them).
They do
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lmao how do u just fall for the stick bait rofl
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Guys. This team won against NiP. You realize how fucking bad EU dota is right now?
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EPT
