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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 13 2015 04:17 lolfail9001 wrote: They did not want to win? That's about the only thing i can produce from them picking bone7 Axe. Or offlane WR Maybe that Bone7's drafting is just as messy as EE's. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
Picks aside, I missed the series but from briefly glancing at the vods it seemed like in both games early game was fine for c9, and then there was one massive fight that turned the game very far in EG's favor. First game it was that moment where c9 tried to go for rosh and it somewhat narrowly failed, and second game it was when EG brought all 5 players mid and c9 tried to fight, messed up their counter initiation and got wyvern ulted and stuff and EG won the fight 5-0. But anyway this finals was like at the most pointless time to make any sort of speculation of what is wrong or what should be changed with c9. We'll see at TI how it goes for every team, and then teams will change based on the results there. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
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Beyonder01
Canada44 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On July 13 2015 10:36 Beyonder01 wrote: I still can't believe Secret dropped out of tourney. I can't believe the tournament actually ended | ||
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blobrus
4297 Posts
On July 13 2015 11:27 Elyvilon wrote: I can't believe the tournament actually ended I'm looking forward to season 4 and its thrilling conclusion in 2018. | ||
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Baradrist
Germany96 Posts
On July 13 2015 12:57 blobrus wrote: I'm looking forward to season 4 and its thrilling conclusion in 2018. It really didn't feel like a real tournament ... games here and there. I couldn't even follow. =( It kind of just went on in the background. I prefer other formats. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On July 13 2015 20:45 Baradrist wrote: It really didn't feel like a real tournament ... games here and there. I couldn't even follow. =( It kind of just went on in the background. I prefer other formats. This tournament really showed us that as a tournament organizer you have to make a set schedule or atleast have periods of time in which games have to be finished. In my opinion teams should actually be able to schedule a single best of x series themselves, but this tournament made it clear that such a task is to hard for many teams  | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On July 13 2015 04:17 lolfail9001 wrote: They did not want to win? That's about the only thing i can produce from them picking bone7 Axe. Or offlane WR EE spoke at length on his stream about how hiding strats was pretty worthless for all but maybe EG and Secret unless you're sitting on some exploit/something that is broken. He said that for C9 the confidence boost of winning was the most important thing. He seemed to share the sentiment that individual/surprise picks don't matter too much right now, not nearly as much as the community makes out. The game is won and loss on understanding Dota in general. Obviously if he was saving strats he should still say the same thing, though. So who knows. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On July 15 2015 13:22 Lachrymose wrote: EE spoke at length on his stream about how hiding strats was pretty worthless for all but maybe EG and Secret unless you're sitting on some exploit/something that is broken. He said that for C9 the confidence boost of winning was the most important thing. He seemed to share the sentiment that individual/surprise picks don't matter too much right now, not nearly as much as the community makes out. The game is won and loss on understanding Dota in general. Obviously if he was saving strats he should still say the same thing, though. So who knows. As far as I recall he didn't say that it makes sense for Secret or EG to save strats, I think even a bit on the contrary. I think he said that if you are a team that legitimately can win TI, then you probably are not trying to save strats from most of the TI teams because you are going to beat them anyway. And the teams that you maybe would want to hide something from (like Secret from EG) are going to see what you like before the important series in the end of the tournament anyway. So overall I would say that "hiding strats" could be more beneficial to teams who maybe are not locked in to get a good placing in the groups, so they can take some early surprise wins over better teams when noone knows what they are actually doing. But Secret on the other hand is probably going to do well in groups no matter if their strats are hidden or not, and they will still have to use their top picks if not in groups then at least in early playoff rounds, because they don't want to risk losing either. Assuming that Secret gets in the finals, it's pretty unlikely that the team they are facing is in the dark before the match. Though funnily enough the team that won TI last year almost didn't make it out of groups, so it's not like they just cruised through the tournament until the end. This year though it seems to me at least that top contenders like Secret or EG are strong enough that it's hard to see them really struggle in the group stage, no matter if people know what they want to pick or not. | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On July 15 2015 17:54 spudde123 wrote: As far as I recall he didn't say that it makes sense for Secret or EG to save strats, I think even a bit on the contrary. I think he said that if you are a team that legitimately can win TI, then you probably are not trying to save strats from most of the TI teams because you are going to beat them anyway. And the teams that you maybe would want to hide something from (like Secret from EG) are going to see what you like before the important series in the end of the tournament anyway. So overall I would say that "hiding strats" could be more beneficial to teams who maybe are not locked in to get a good placing in the groups, so they can take some early surprise wins over better teams when noone knows what they are actually doing. But Secret on the other hand is probably going to do well in groups no matter if their strats are hidden or not, and they will still have to use their top picks if not in groups then at least in early playoff rounds, because they don't want to risk losing either. Assuming that Secret gets in the finals, it's pretty unlikely that the team they are facing is in the dark before the match. He didn't say it makes sense for EG/Secret, he said it doesn't make sense for anybody else. The difference is EG/Secret could conceivably save strats all the way to one another as well as they're good enough at Dota for saved strats to not matter, unless they're broken. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On July 15 2015 23:44 Lachrymose wrote: He didn't say it makes sense for EG/Secret, he said it doesn't make sense for anybody else. The difference is EG/Secret could conceivably save strats all the way to one another as well as they're good enough at Dota for saved strats to not matter, unless they're broken. No, he was specifically talking about teams that have a chance of winning TI and will be around in the final rounds. He didn't say anything about everyone else in the tournament. Except for c9 he said that for them it would be more important to gain confidence from winning Dotapit than it would be to actively hide something. Of course it's possible that some "reactionary" picks that are only viable in certain types of games stay hidden until later in the tournament (just because those games didn't come up), but in general if you have preferred openings or a clear picking style, it's pretty hard to completely hide those until the very end. As you said the one special case he mentioned was that if you have some stupid exploit that you can pull out in one game, but a lot of those have been removed from the game these past few years so it doesn't seem so likely. | ||
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