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On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them
the villians trumped everybody though .. i still can't believe newbee actually won that winner bracket game 1 finals vs EG
(game 2 was kinda irrelevant since EG was on a tilt game according to arteezy)
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On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them
I personally think that it's also the same reason why every single champion (except Navi, I don't really know their post-TI1 history) slumped at least a little bit.
And I think this factor gets bigger and bigger with the rising prize pool. Seems to me like a trend.
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On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them
Its always the case.
Newbee is this student everyone has in the class. He fks around all the time, then when the finals are around the corner, he crams a year's worth of material in a week and tops the class.
Everyone feels that is unfair, especially those that studied hard for the entire year and topped class tests. But thats just how it is.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now."
Doesn't really make sense, because DAC is also a fuckton of money, absolutely comparable to TI.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:11 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now." Good luck getting 5 millions every TI just by starting to practice a couple of months before it.
tbh with patches every so often you don't need that much practice, you can probably get back in mechanical and communication form pretty fast and then into winning form not that much longer.
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On February 01 2015 02:11 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them
well i mean the public perception was more about the endearment of the players, but the vibe was there eh i don't think newbee were all about the money for TI4 at all
yea i made another edit...
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On February 01 2015 02:13 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now." Doesn't really make sense, because DAC is also a fuckton of money, absolutely comparable to TI.
DAC is a fuckton of money.
But saying 2 million is absolutely comparable to 11 million is a misnomer.
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On February 01 2015 02:06 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:00 Salazarz wrote:On February 01 2015 01:58 hfglgg wrote:On February 01 2015 01:56 Salazarz wrote:
Obviously if someone disagrees with you they are blind fanboys and / or blind haters. What else is new you just dont have any arguments beside fanboying a name. Yup, I never watch any dota games nor follow any tournaments and can't have an opinion as to how strong teams are. You got me! if you think that a teams which biggest achievment with its current roster is a shared 5th place at a starladder with no t1 teams in it is worthy of an ti5 invite, then you are clearly delusional.
Yeah, because there are so many Western teams with consistently better results this season. Like VPP, they have so many big wins and do so well in series against top teams all the time, right?
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On February 01 2015 01:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
doesnt matter tradition's tradition, newbee would have to really shit up the next six months or disband for valve to break tradition of inviting the ti champ. you can reason all you want, it's falling on deaf ears
To the best of my knowledge it is not a precedent, and not tradition either. None of the previous "reigning" champs ever fell out of top 16 contention when the next TI rolled around. If it were to happen, I think it's certainly possible they could not get an invite, and, I would hope they wouldn't.
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On February 01 2015 02:13 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:11 SKC wrote:On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now." Good luck getting 5 millions every TI just by starting to practice a couple of months before it. tbh with patches every so often you don't need that much practice, you can probably get back in mechanical and communication form pretty fast and then into winning form not that much longer.
It's one thing to get back in a good enough form to get a decent result. Another is to guarantee a first place in TI every year, which is what he was talking about. Noone is even close to the level of domination where they could do it.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:12 Harrason wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them I personally think that it's also the same reason why every single champion (except Navi, I don't really know their post-TI1 history) slumped at least a little bit. And I think this factor gets bigger and bigger with the rising prize pool. Seems to me like a trend.
Post TI1 Na'Vi won literally everything. They slumped hardcore, they sometimes even played with standins, but still totally walked over everybody.
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On February 01 2015 02:13 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:06 hfglgg wrote:On February 01 2015 02:00 Salazarz wrote:On February 01 2015 01:58 hfglgg wrote:On February 01 2015 01:56 Salazarz wrote:
Obviously if someone disagrees with you they are blind fanboys and / or blind haters. What else is new you just dont have any arguments beside fanboying a name. Yup, I never watch any dota games nor follow any tournaments and can't have an opinion as to how strong teams are. You got me! if you think that a teams which biggest achievment with its current roster is a shared 5th place at a starladder with no t1 teams in it is worthy of an ti5 invite, then you are clearly delusional. Yeah, because there are so many Western teams with consistently better results this season. Like VPP, they have so many big wins and do so well in series against top teams all the time, right?
they still did so much better than na'vi though and VPP from time to time could stood up against the big three while na'vi couldn't even win consistently against t2 teams .. right now na'vi still has shit standings results speaking results wise
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On February 01 2015 02:13 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:11 SKC wrote:On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now." Good luck getting 5 millions every TI just by starting to practice a couple of months before it. tbh with patches every so often you don't need that much practice, you can probably get back in mechanical and communication form pretty fast and then into winning form not that much longer.
Precisely. That's actually a problem that was highlighted in the CS:GO community when people suggested a TI-esque tournament for CS:GO. A very great idea in itself, but it inadvertently causes the whole scene to revolve around that one big tournament. There's a lot of pros, but also some major cons to go along with that.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:15 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:12 Harrason wrote:On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them I personally think that it's also the same reason why every single champion (except Navi, I don't really know their post-TI1 history) slumped at least a little bit. And I think this factor gets bigger and bigger with the rising prize pool. Seems to me like a trend. Post TI1 Na'Vi won literally everything. They slumped hardcore, they sometimes even played with standins, but still totally walked over everybody.
i know this is said over and over again but the competition back then wasn't quite as cuttthroat as it is now
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:13 beifru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:13 cecek wrote:On February 01 2015 02:08 Harrason wrote:
Look, to those people who says Newbee doesn't deserve an invite, if I were to think from their point of view, this is what I would think:
"From a monetary standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to train hard for the entire year if you can get an entire year's worth of training in just 2 months.
To get as much as a million USD as an individual every single year(and I bet this year it's going to be even higher), I wouldn't care less what my haters say. I will slack as much as I want, and I wouldn't give a shit about anything except TI. Obviously, I need to discuss that with my team, but if my team's okay with it(as is evident with their attitudes), then I am going to holiday till TI.
If I fuck up as a result, shame on me then. I still wouldn't trade it for valuable time that I have to spend in order to work, because money is 'easy' now." Doesn't really make sense, because DAC is also a fuckton of money, absolutely comparable to TI. DAC is a fuckton of money. But saying 2 million is absolutely comparable to 11 million is a misnomer.
What is the threshold for calling something comparable for you, then? I think 2.5 and 11 absolutely is on the same scale and is comparable.
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On February 01 2015 02:12 beifru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them Its always the case. Newbee is this student everyone has in the class. He fks around all the time, then when the finals are around the corner, he crams a year's worth of material in a week and tops the class. Everyone feels that is unfair, especially those that studied hard for the entire year and topped class tests. But thats just how it is.
That is a wrong comparison though.
Newbee had strong results pre-TI4 and was regarded as one of the strongest Chinese Team coming into TI4 along with All-Star DK who were losing their steam.
That term is more suitable for Navi 2011-2012.
Navi wasn't doing well before TI2.
But they somehow make it to the finals of TI2 without much practice.
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On February 01 2015 02:14 Vansetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 01:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
doesnt matter tradition's tradition, newbee would have to really shit up the next six months or disband for valve to break tradition of inviting the ti champ. you can reason all you want, it's falling on deaf ears To the best of my knowledge it is not a precedent, and not tradition either. None of the previous "reigning" champs ever fell out of top 16 contention when the next TI rolled around. If it were to happen, I think it's certainly possible they could not get an invite, and, I would hope they wouldn't.
I personally like the idea of defending champion in all kind of competition, even if it's only to see them crash. It's an important part of prestigious tournaments imo. I understand your point so it's more a matter of taste.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:17 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:14 Vansetsu wrote:On February 01 2015 01:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
doesnt matter tradition's tradition, newbee would have to really shit up the next six months or disband for valve to break tradition of inviting the ti champ. you can reason all you want, it's falling on deaf ears To the best of my knowledge it is not a precedent, and not tradition either. None of the previous "reigning" champs ever fell out of top 16 contention when the next TI rolled around. If it were to happen, I think it's certainly possible they could not get an invite, and, I would hope they wouldn't. I personally like the idea of defending champion in all kind of competition, even if it's only to see them crash. It's an important part of prestigious tournaments imo. I understand your point so it's more a matter of taste.
and plus noone actually knows how valve invites teams so anything is conjecture really haha
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On February 01 2015 02:17 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:15 cecek wrote:On February 01 2015 02:12 Harrason wrote:On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them I personally think that it's also the same reason why every single champion (except Navi, I don't really know their post-TI1 history) slumped at least a little bit. And I think this factor gets bigger and bigger with the rising prize pool. Seems to me like a trend. Post TI1 Na'Vi won literally everything. They slumped hardcore, they sometimes even played with standins, but still totally walked over everybody. i know this is said over and over again but the competition back then wasn't quite as cuttthroat as it is now
Noone is talking about competition. Navi certainly didn't show the lack of motivation from winning a lot of money, even after 3 finals in TIs.
Most teams that win TI slump after a while. Not surprising, since most teams that are at the top slump after a while, TI or not. EG didnt start having issues because of TI winnings.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:17 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:15 cecek wrote:On February 01 2015 02:12 Harrason wrote:On February 01 2015 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
yea that kind of thinking around money was why DK, EG, and VG were the heroes and newbee was the villain of TI4; the former 3 just seem to be more hungry to prove their worth at dota, doesn't feel like money factors in that much for them I personally think that it's also the same reason why every single champion (except Navi, I don't really know their post-TI1 history) slumped at least a little bit. And I think this factor gets bigger and bigger with the rising prize pool. Seems to me like a trend. Post TI1 Na'Vi won literally everything. They slumped hardcore, they sometimes even played with standins, but still totally walked over everybody. i know this is said over and over again but the competition back then wasn't quite as cuttthroat as it is now
Oh yeah, totally. Doesn't change the fact that Na'Vi were in a league of their own during and after TI1.
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EPT
