the problem you run into is if your team has a mid who is bottle crowing. you will be hogging the courier between the two of you and your safelane will never see their items or you will be without the bottle for a while.

with heroes like clock and mirana, I personally prefer to wait until after my first big item to get a bottle if i'm finding that my mana regen is hurting my ability to return to farming after a team fight or something.

having a bottle doesnt mean you have to bottle crow, though it does give you the option. walking back to base or camping runes becomes much more profitable with a bottle
usually you can tell that you need mana regen later on, just buy the bottle before you need it
cw and potm have tiny mana pools so its worth picking up bottle on them a lot of the time

hooahah

3752 Posts

June 24 2014 07:05 GMT

#18043

Alright, simple question - I played Viper vs OD mid and I got fucking smashed (had 11 cs 5 minutes in). Bad matchup or did I just get outplayed?

yann2

Malaysia7 Posts

June 24 2014 07:09 GMT

#18044

Lately I am so obsessed with Brewmaster, so why is it so strong, how to counter it?

[APGT]Tex

22 Posts

June 24 2014 07:28 GMT

#18045

On June 24 2014 16:05 hooahah wrote:
Alright, simple question - I played Viper vs OD mid and I got fucking smashed (had 11 cs 5 minutes in). Bad matchup or did I just get outplayed?

OD is one of the best midder in the game it is normal to be in trouble agaist him. Then viper is a strong harrass hero but od with prison easy win. Vs od you have to use his lack of ganking and rune control, so gank other lane with good rune and call support to gank mid and if opponents supports don't react you win the lane

govie

9334 Posts

June 24 2014 07:49 GMT

#18046

On June 24 2014 16:05 hooahah wrote:
Alright, simple question - I played Viper vs OD mid and I got fucking smashed (had 11 cs 5 minutes in). Bad matchup or did I just get outplayed?

https://dotametrics.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/1v1matchupchart.png

above table belongs in the first article, a small section about viper vs od --> http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/

Eriksen

Micronesia720 Posts

June 24 2014 09:40 GMT

#18047

On June 24 2014 16:09 yann2 wrote:
Lately I am so obsessed with Brewmaster, so why is it so strong, how to counter it?

Brew's so strong, because:
a) Clap = big AoE damage + slow
b) Haze = semi-Tinker's Laser (and does not disjointed with manta or stuff)
c) Passive = massive evasion+crit-hit boost
d) Ult = now there are 3 of you, triple the trouble! And with aghanim, earth got clap. Clap clap.

How do you counter this hero? Well pretty easy to sum up this problem is: lock him down before he uses his ultimate. Brewmaster, despite the strong abilities he has, is not an easy-to-escape hero without his dagger on. You may form a lineup full of stunners, get a Silencer, make someone buy an Orchid, Hex, or anything, and you're good to go.

To counter him with a carry hero: strong right-click heroes will simply win, even with his ult on. N`aix, Faceless Void, Slardar, Sven, or anyone can easily go toe-to-toe with Brew as long as he didn't use his Haze on you.

icystorage

Jollibee19350 Posts

June 24 2014 10:12 GMT

#18048

black hole also counter's his ult. if enigma has bkb and can tank up, he can bkb bh the panda ult to was some seconds on the ult

Kraznaya

United States3711 Posts

June 24 2014 10:22 GMT

#18049

On June 24 2014 19:12 icystorage wrote:
black hole also counter's his ult. if enigma has bkb and can tank up, he can bkb bh the panda ult to was some seconds on the ult

except pandas cd is a lot shorter...

if i had to pick some time to be caught in a hole primal would be it

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22212 Posts

June 24 2014 10:54 GMT

#18050

If clock hooks and then cogs a panda, who then splits, will his splits be trapped inside the cogs?

Erasme

Bahamas15899 Posts

June 24 2014 11:49 GMT

#18051

On June 24 2014 16:05 hooahah wrote:
Alright, simple question - I played Viper vs OD mid and I got fucking smashed (had 11 cs 5 minutes in). Bad matchup or did I just get outplayed?

you got outplayed, viper can easily win this matchup assuming no ganks. Nethertoxin is fairly good, go 1-1-3 and harass him. Kill him at lvl 6 by using your ult after he emprisonned you

KOFgokuon

United States14911 Posts

June 24 2014 12:27 GMT

#18052

If you have mana when you hit level 6 the od did something wrong

However with levels in nether toxin you should have great farm

Comeh

United States18919 Posts

June 24 2014 14:01 GMT

#18053

It's a pretty even matchup heavily dependent on momentum from the first 2 levels and how well the viper controls the creepwave. If he can stay on his highground, OD will lose.

hooahah

3752 Posts

June 24 2014 14:03 GMT

#18054

On June 24 2014 20:49 Erasme wrote:

Show nested quote +

you got outplayed, viper can easily win this matchup assuming no ganks. Nethertoxin is fairly good, go 1-1-3 and harass him. Kill him at lvl 6 by using your ult after he emprisonned you

Ouch. Ok, learning progress I guess.

How am I supposed to contest last hitting though when the guy has 30+ more damage than me? He also didn't actually attack me, just kept prisoning me whenever I was about to get a last hit...

icystorage

Jollibee19350 Posts

June 24 2014 14:04 GMT

#18055

don't beat yourself up when losing the lane against OD. That hero's a dick.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

June 24 2014 14:06 GMT

#18056

Just read nethertoxin for a sec. Also use ur orb to harass him since you can kill him wit hit if he positions poorly and wastes prison.

@Erasme 1-1-3 seems notably suspect vs a hero that does 0 magic damage pre ult and by and large loses harass wars due to your orb anyway.

Arisen

United States2382 Posts

June 24 2014 14:40 GMT

#18057

I'm trying to learn invoker. I'm having almost no luck, sadly. I know there are a TON of styles you can do, but I'm looking to learn the most straightforward easy way to play and branch off from there. So, I know this is a very complex hero, so I have a few sub questions that might help me out.

1) How do I know when to level up which orb and what orbs (assuming I'm not trying to invoke something at the time) should I have up most of the time? The guides I've read don't seem to explain why we're leveling up certain orbs; probably because they assume I know

2) What spells should I be running early game the majority of the time? I'm guessing forge spirits, but but I don't know what other spell to invoke.

3) You see a lot of invokers in solo q go fast midas. Is this advisable for an inexperienced invoker? What should I be aiming for as a core? I see everything from Midas>Eul, Midas>Sheepstick straight Aghs rush, and even a radiance rush or two. I'm just not sure what I should be going for (obviously it will be somewhat situational to the game, but a general idea would be great).

EDIT:
Forgot to add this in; most mids I play have a quck wave push so I can go for rune.What should invoker do in the stead of having a spell like DK's breath fire or tinkers march that quickly pushes up the wave? What am I doing with my time? On DK I"m looking to push and get some fast towers, on heroes like ns, qop, etc I'm looking to set up ganks; but I'm not sure what to be doing with invoker.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

June 24 2014 14:42 GMT

#18058

On June 24 2014 23:40 Arisen wrote:
Hi I'd like a complete guide to invoker

wrong thread ask/read the hero specific thread (http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-strategy/454924-hero-invoker)

DinoMight

United States3725 Posts

June 24 2014 15:03 GMT

#18059

Hi all,

Does Witch Doctor see competitive play? I'm not really familiar with the pro scene. I just know that on my 2nd try with him (ever) I went 17 - 0 - 16 yesterday.

Is he really THAT easy??

LOL

EDIT - I literally just went straight Arcanes => Ag's => Refresher and used only Q and R.