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On August 05 2013 14:53 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 14:33 Capped wrote:
I feel like its a bit overcomplicated (well maybe just too much) for a newcomer but i mean, its an article so you had to add some depth and if they are going to watch TI3, reading that isnt much of a problem anyway.
I understand it as i play the other moba that should not be named though.
Still dont have a damn clue about heroes / items though, which is the biggest thing when it comes to fully understanding a moba. Recommend using a Dota wiki for any heroes / items you dont recognise while watching TI3.
When you can start saying "Ahh lich's ult just bounces around and fucks people up or Ok so blink dagger lets them teleport every X seconds" instead of. Wtf is that ball of ice? How did the champ just warp across the screen?!?!! things start to make more sense lol.q
*Lich used because he's like 1 of 2 champs i learnt to play in dota. lol Don't call Lich champ. If you don't really know about heroes and items, you shouldn't expect to learn about it when watching the highest level of plays in TI, because it doesn't mean to teach you. Anyway, I know what you mean. It's kind of overwhelming when you don't really know about it. What they should do is making an article that summarize the popular heroes for the last 2 days, their usefulness, skills, item builds,.v..v.v so that people can start to learn about the actual gameplay instead of random rant assuming people are retards.
Given that there were picked more than 60 different heroes at only the first day it would be kinda much.
Heros who stand out, like weaver, are kinda hard to explain. Telling a noob weaver is good cause he gets away all the time and plays a good offlane is not as intuitiv.
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Guide wrote:
"reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On August 05 2013 18:48 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +Guide wrote:
"reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution" Yeah... Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location? edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side.
* All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already.
* Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you.
* Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
edit:  The International/2013
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On August 05 2013 18:58 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 18:48 d00p wrote:Guide wrote:
"reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution" Yeah... Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location? edit. great guide! * Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Thanks. That helps but I guess I'll need to play at least a little to really get into it. No free time is the problem. I also don't feel like being abused online for being a noob. That's a team game issue.
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The first part....
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ...
Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
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I sure wished someone showed me a guide like this when I first started playing Dota. All people kept telling me was PICK A STUNNER!
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On August 05 2013 09:42 Nakwa wrote:
Short guide to dota2:
Don't make mistakes, force the other team to make mistakes, keep control and pressure.
Shorter guide: stop feeding :-)
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On August 05 2013 19:06 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 18:58 imallinson wrote:On August 05 2013 18:48 d00p wrote:Guide wrote:
"reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution" Yeah... Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location? edit. great guide! * Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level. Thanks. That helps but I guess I'll need to play at least a little to really get into it. No free time is the problem. I also don't feel like being abused online for being a noob. That's a team game issue.
valve's system is doing a pretty good job at sorting out guys who are impolite. You will still get flamed for being a noob sometimes, but it never got out of hand when i played.
Dota2 has a tutorial now btw.
On August 05 2013 20:52 Kreb wrote:The first part.... Show nested quote +Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ... Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
I think it's relatively easy to say if you are improving, just watch your own replays a week ago and now. CS, positioning mistakes etc are good indicators. Besides you can see your mmr-region in dota2, it's just not as omnipresent as in sc2.
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Thank you for writing these. Hope the series continues. Enjoying it very much so far.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On August 05 2013 20:52 Kreb wrote:The first part.... Show nested quote +Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ... Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
I have to agree. Playing HoN where the MMRs were on display, as well as how much you stood to gain/lose added quite a bit of unnecessary pressure to the game.
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On August 05 2013 20:52 Kreb wrote:The first part.... Show nested quote +Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ... Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
There are ways to tell you are improving without using some ladder rank. Gold per minute, creep score(this is huge), denies and over all score is a good way to tell how good you are doing. Unlike SC2 and LoL, which just gives you a rank, Dota 2 requires that you actually look at your play and attempt to review it based on how you played previously.
Also, with no ladder rank, there is no reason to be worried about losing a game beyond the fact that you lost. There are rankings for 5 man teams, however, since that is the full package of Dota 2.
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Pretty certain that the author means you can't easily evaluate or quantify your gamesense, your decision making, overall strategy understanding, teamplay synergy, pick and ban analysis etc. Sure, you could be improving your raw stats, and still it could be that you are not improving on the above things.
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I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
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On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote:
I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
"Steal" was used in a very abstract way. Yes, it can mean their lives and their gold, as any kill achieves, but successful ganks can, for example, make a team unable to farm their own jungle because of the threat of new ganks, "stealing" map control. Don't take it too literally.
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On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote:
I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant.
Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes.
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So what exactly is a "gank"? This is the concept that translates least well for me from SC2.
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On August 05 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote:
I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control? The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant. Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes.
It sounds from this explanation that "gank" is kind of like "snipe", where you focus your efforts temporarily on picking off one unit (a hero in this case.)
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On August 05 2013 09:30 wei2coolman wrote:
Okay. This is so much better. Thought the viewer's guide was a bit toooooooooooooooo simplistic.
It was perfect for someone like me. I all about SC2 and I've been trying to get into Dota2 (just watching, not even playing) but it's so damn confusing, all those different hero's moves/spells and item combinations is so much information to take in. As someone mentioned in the views guide topic there doesn't seem to be a "Tasteless" in the Dota casting community, someone who always explains things in layman's or occasionally goes over the basics again on the off chance that there are new viewers watching. I was constantly clueless when phrases like "BKB" were been continuosly thrown around and the viewers guide really helped out with that.
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On August 05 2013 23:55 Random_0 wrote:
So what exactly is a "gank"? This is the concept that translates least well for me from SC2.
You find a hero out of position or that is to far up, jump them with one or more heroes and murder them realy, really, good. It is an ambush. There is a think called a Smoke Gank, which is a single item that makes everyone in a small area "cloaked" and gives them a speed boost(along with sweet music). It is the standard way to move a large number of players around the map, avoiding wards. Even sentry wards(which reveal cloaked stuff) do not show the "smoked" heroes on the mini-map. You have to see them on the main screen when they are within vision of the sentry ward.
On August 05 2013 23:57 Random_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote:
I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control? The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant. Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes. It sounds from this explanation that "gank" is kind of like "snipe", where you focus your efforts temporarily on picking off one unit (a hero in this case.)
Exactly, and they don't need to kill them, just drive them out of lane. Any time a core hero is out of lane, it is similar to lost mining time. Only in gank heavy line ups, they remove potential mining time. Its like the threat of DTs to a terran forcing them to save up for scans.
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On August 05 2013 23:58 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 09:30 wei2coolman wrote:
Okay. This is so much better. Thought the viewer's guide was a bit toooooooooooooooo simplistic. It was perfect for someone like me. I all about SC2 and I've been trying to get into Dota2 (just watching, not even playing) but it's so damn confusing, all those different hero's moves/spells and item combinations is so much information to take in. As someone mentioned in the views guide topic there doesn't seem to be a "Tasteless" in the Dota casting community, someone who always explains things in layman's or occasionally goes over the basics again on the off chance that there are new viewers watching. I was constantly clueless when phrases like "BKB" were been continuosly thrown around and the viewers guide really helped out with that.
That was well said. This pretty much sums up my feelings towrds Dota2 as well.
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EPT
