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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:14 cecek wrote:
I never played lol, but form what I've heard it's kind of like that, but there isn't a system that enforces it.
Btw, how often do you write something and not edit it 20 seconds later to add something? :D About 100% of the time.
What happens is that I read it and then realize "well what if they respond with X" and then edit it in disregarding if the other person already read the message.
Just edited this one for good measure.
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On November 09 2013 09:09 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 09:07 cecek wrote:On November 09 2013 09:00 teapoted wrote:On November 09 2013 08:53 TheYango wrote:On November 09 2013 08:44 cecek wrote:
What I mean is, I think they took all the stuff (items, lasthits, etc.) away, because it makes the game seem more complex and harder to get into. (that might be wrong, it's just my assumption) And they keep the hero "roles" in. I mean, if I wanted to make the dota genre more casual friendly, role differentiation would be one of the first things out. Especially before items and the gold system altogether.
I dunno if that actually makes sense. If you bear in mind the audience that Blizzard's been working with for years now (namely the WoW crowd), role differentiation really is not unintuitive or difficult a concept for them in the slightest. Of all the concepts in the genre, that one will be quite familiar to them. This is considering that they will have similar roles as they do have in WoW. Because in Dota we don't have that. I mean in WoW you have tanks/dps/healers. And (at least in Vanilla when I played) you could say that CC was a role. Tanks and healers are things we don't really have in Dota. I mean if we look at the heroes which have heals they don't play 'like a healer' in the same sense as a healer in WoW. And well tanks aren't much of a concept in WoW PVP either. It could be interesting if they do reinforce those roles in a Dota-like game. But who knows, I don't think they will. ~ Again I think I'd be more interested if this is more a bunch of mini-games than if they do something that's more like Dota, which from the descriptions it seems in-between. Because I don't think you can have a really stripped down version of Dota really work, it won't have the longevity. (and LoL, for all the complaints, even as someone who doesn't play it I can see it isn't 'that' stripped down) I don't think MMO roles would work at all in a hero brawler (gotta give the term a shot) game. The entire tank class is based around aggro, which just doesn't work if the enemy is a human and not an AI. Also, I don't think it would even be such a good idea. I think you would either have to have a super rigid system, where it straight up didn't allow you to pick 5 healers for example, or it would cause a huge amount of rage if something like that happened. Again doesn't LoL already have that sort of forced meta thing going on? I at least feel like I keep on hearing people complain about it. And yeah tanks don't really make sense. I mean you could make a character which acts like a tank such as Axe but it's not really the same thing. And it was never said again...
You could have a 'tank' sort of like an armadon where you get to run around doing sustained damage and being a pain to kill, and then a dps class like a sniper where you have to be super cautious about positioning but also have huge potential for damage.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:14 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 09:08 teapoted wrote:On November 09 2013 09:06 canikizu wrote:On November 09 2013 08:54 kirsed wrote:On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote:
The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. That just means they have one big ass raid boss to order them around, not means they can do whatever the they want and got paid for it. Well they won't do whatever they want because the company wouldn't hire someone who would do that. Valve's an enormously wealthy company with a relatively tiny staff. If people don't manage themselves then that system wouldn't work. (And in some instances it doesn't) Yeah. They still have staff managers (Gaben is presumably one of them), and they have fired people before, sometimes really high profile people as well. You're expected to work on stuff, but you will have absolutely no oversight over what you're actually working on. No business manager will be whining on you to "We need a new AAA game, preferably with either "revelations" or "origins" in the title, and finish it within a year. New IP?! GET OUT!" *cough EA cough* Their handbook stated something like: "You have no boss, and Gabe Newell is your biggest not boss"
Doesn't the handbook describe some kind of a peer review system? That everyone rates their coworkers how much they contribute to the project. It's not like that there's zero oversight over the employees.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Well especially if a lot of things are aimed spells you could have a tank.
Like someone that has intercept from Warriors in WoW who runs to other heroes and absorbs the next hit. Or some sort of taunt would screw up enemies aiming spells and redirect towards you.
It's 'possible' given a completely new game, especially considering they have different game modes if you have creeps which are more important and threatening. But I don't think you could put it in to like Dota, it has to be designed around a lot of concepts that work to 'tank'.
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On November 09 2013 09:17 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 09:14 Excludos wrote:On November 09 2013 09:08 teapoted wrote:On November 09 2013 09:06 canikizu wrote:On November 09 2013 08:54 kirsed wrote:On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote:
The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. That just means they have one big ass raid boss to order them around, not means they can do whatever the they want and got paid for it. Well they won't do whatever they want because the company wouldn't hire someone who would do that. Valve's an enormously wealthy company with a relatively tiny staff. If people don't manage themselves then that system wouldn't work. (And in some instances it doesn't) Yeah. They still have staff managers (Gaben is presumably one of them), and they have fired people before, sometimes really high profile people as well. You're expected to work on stuff, but you will have absolutely no oversight over what you're actually working on. No business manager will be whining on you to "We need a new AAA game, preferably with either "revelations" or "origins" in the title, and finish it within a year. New IP?! GET OUT!" *cough EA cough* Their handbook stated something like: "You have no boss, and Gabe Newell is your biggest not boss" Doesn't the handbook describe some kind of a peer review system? That everyone rates their coworkers how much they contribute to the project. It's not like that there's zero oversight over the employees.
I have no idea. As much as I wish it, I don't work there 
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On November 09 2013 09:14 Excludos wrote:
Their handbook stated something like: "You have no boss, and Gabe Newell is your biggest not boss"
The exact quote is:
"Gabe Newell—Of all the people at this company who aren’t your boss, Gabe is the MOST not your boss, if you get what we’re saying."
@Above, you can find their hand book online, it's incredibly hilarious.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:19 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 09:17 cecek wrote:On November 09 2013 09:14 Excludos wrote:On November 09 2013 09:08 teapoted wrote:On November 09 2013 09:06 canikizu wrote:On November 09 2013 08:54 kirsed wrote:On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote:
The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. That just means they have one big ass raid boss to order them around, not means they can do whatever the they want and got paid for it. Well they won't do whatever they want because the company wouldn't hire someone who would do that. Valve's an enormously wealthy company with a relatively tiny staff. If people don't manage themselves then that system wouldn't work. (And in some instances it doesn't) Yeah. They still have staff managers (Gaben is presumably one of them), and they have fired people before, sometimes really high profile people as well. You're expected to work on stuff, but you will have absolutely no oversight over what you're actually working on. No business manager will be whining on you to "We need a new AAA game, preferably with either "revelations" or "origins" in the title, and finish it within a year. New IP?! GET OUT!" *cough EA cough* Their handbook stated something like: "You have no boss, and Gabe Newell is your biggest not boss" Doesn't the handbook describe some kind of a peer review system? That everyone rates their coworkers how much they contribute to the project. It's not like that there's zero oversight over the employees. I have no idea. As much as I wish it, I don't work there
Me neither. The handbook was leaked on the internet. I'm sure you could google it easily.
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These are the things valve does as a company rated after how important they are:
+ Show Spoiler +
You might notice a certain game there.
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Like anything in real life though, you never know what would happen if it were the other way around. People argue that since Valve had strict hiring procedure, if they had managers, we would have Half-Life 4 by now.
This is like economy theory, we're playing guessing game lol. Valve is successful, but noone knows whether they would be more successful if they had the other way.
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as an extremely obvious counterpoint, Valve wouldn't be valve if they were any other way
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I prefer a "release when its finished" attitude to a "release on tuesday" attitude.
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if valve wasn't exactly as valve is, TF2 never would have seen the light of day
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Aaaaaaaand that was WCS for me. Back to dota 2.
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Remember the amount of shit Valve got from...
-How bad steam was when it first came out?
-When Half Life 2 didn't work when it launched for about a week?
-Asking people to pay and play 1.6 through steam?
-When L4D2 was announced and how everyone that bought it's predecessor felt ripped off?
-How unsupportive they were to the competitive CS scene? (the pro CS community has been very vocal about this)
There are tons more but people still look up to Valve as a company because of the amount of good will they earned from improving Steam as a platform, releasing L4D1 content even after the release of it's predecessor and trying to help the CS GO community by adding shit to their game.
The most important thing from a financial perspective was Steam though. The revenue they get from the platform alone is what enables Valve the freedom to do as they please.
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Valve is slow but steady. If you have patience you will be happy. If you don't have patience you will just annoy yourself because are not gonna move faster for your convience.
They should take as much time as they want. I'm not in a hurry.
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Valve always delivers in the end.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yVrZFDm.jpg)
Ursa set with the g-league ticket. It's kinda meh.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
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Id like some perspective from the pro CS community on what they think of Valve now that they started to do some more work on GO. They were very vocal in speaking against Valve and their lack of support for many years and I can see why given what they have done to Dota.
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That looks...I don't know, I think I like it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sEfYqYw.jpg)
