EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 4304
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Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:44 cecek wrote: What I mean is, I think they took all the stuff (items, lasthits, etc.) away, because it makes the game seem more complex and harder to get into. (that might be wrong, it's just my assumption) And they keep the hero "roles" in. I mean, if I wanted to make the dota genre more casual friendly, role differentiation would be one of the first things out. Especially before items and the gold system altogether. I dunno if that actually makes sense. If you bear in mind the audience that Blizzard's been working with for years now (namely the WoW crowd), role differentiation really is not unintuitive or difficult a concept for them in the slightest. Of all the concepts in the genre, that one will be quite familiar to them. | ||
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Kirsed
9381 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote: The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
>Community whines about no updates >Work on huge update and don't have time for diretide >Community whines about no diretide and harasses valve and other people >Valve actually goes ahead and starts working on diretide + new update And as mentioned above, yeah, people at valve don't on something specifically, their desks can be moved around to work on whatever, one week you might work on a project with people in TF2 and the next week you might be helping out with DotA2 stuff. They have a very weird working structure but it seems to work seeing that everyone who works there seems to love it. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote: The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D You never know what Valve thinks lol. They may genuinely be surprised about people reaction to Diretide, or they may think "So Halloween is over, other games' special events were over, let's roll Diretide out now and make people flock back to our game and get all da money." Either way, this means that new patch is approaching soon. There's no way they drag this mess for couple more months or something, noone would care about Diretide at that time anymore. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:52 cecek wrote: The way I see Valve is that because of the way they are structured you have to be somewhat lucky for them to work on the things which you care about in the game.The inner workings of Valve are like the biggest mystery to me. Reading this blog without context, I would guess Valve is a 5 man indie developer company talking about their first PC game, but they're one of the biggest companies in the business. :D For example if they didn't have the bot guy, someone else probably would have done some work on the bots, but not nearly to the same degree because no one is telling someone to do that and to finish it. That last point is important because we have features like TMM or like before the Hall of Fame which are just things that are thrown in there and clear that no one is really working on those aspects of the game. And Diretide is similar. If people are busy working on other shit there's no manager there to say "we need to release this or we need to supplement this with something else or announce we won't." | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:53 TheYango wrote: If you bear in mind the audience that Blizzard's been working with for years now (namely the WoW crowd), role differentiation really is not unintuitive or difficult a concept for them in the slightest. Of all the concepts in the genre, that one will be quite familiar to them. That actually makes a lot of sense. They're putting a lot of emphasis on the lore thing with all the famous characters. Didn't really occur to me that they're mainly aiming at fans of their other games before. | ||
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Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:54 kirsed wrote: Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. Probably bunch of drunk guys around a table throwing bear and eating ramen while planning for new hats | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:53 TheYango wrote: If you bear in mind the audience that Blizzard's been working with for years now (namely the WoW crowd), role differentiation really is not unintuitive or difficult a concept for them in the slightest. Of all the concepts in the genre, that one will be quite familiar to them. That actually makes a lot of sense. They're putting a lot of emphasis on the lore thing with all the famous characters. Didn't really occur to me that they're mainly aiming at fans of their other games before. Also, wonder what the "pretty significant" update is. I hope it's map editor, custom games support. Or maybe it's something to do with matchmaking, or finally a tutor system. (the greyed out "play with a mentor" button has been in the game for quite a while now) e: shit, quoted myself instead of editing. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:53 TheYango wrote: This is considering that they will have similar roles as they do have in WoW. Because in Dota we don't have that.If you bear in mind the audience that Blizzard's been working with for years now (namely the WoW crowd), role differentiation really is not unintuitive or difficult a concept for them in the slightest. Of all the concepts in the genre, that one will be quite familiar to them. I mean in WoW you have tanks/dps/healers. And (at least in Vanilla when I played) you could say that CC was a role. Tanks and healers are things we don't really have in Dota. I mean if we look at the heroes which have heals they don't play 'like a healer' in the same sense as a healer in WoW. And well tanks aren't much of a concept in WoW PVP either. It could be interesting if they do reinforce those roles in a Dota-like game. But who knows, I don't think they will. ~ Again I think I'd be more interested if this is more a bunch of mini-games than if they do something that's more like Dota, which from the descriptions it seems in-between. Because I don't think you can have a really stripped down version of Dota really work, it won't have the longevity. (and LoL, for all the complaints, even as someone who doesn't play it I can see it isn't 'that' stripped down) | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:54 kirsed wrote: Have you read their company handbook or whatever? They don't have managers or really any corporate structure at all. That just means they have one big ass raid boss to order them around, not means they can do whatever the they want and got paid for it. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:00 teapoted wrote: This is considering that they will have similar roles as they do have in WoW. Because in Dota we don't have that. I mean in WoW you have tanks/dps/healers. And (at least in Vanilla when I played) you could say that CC was a role. Tanks and healers are things we don't really have in Dota. I mean if we look at the heroes which have heals they don't play 'like a healer' in the same sense as a healer in WoW. And well tanks aren't much of a concept in WoW PVP either. It could be interesting if they do reinforce those roles in a Dota-like game. But who knows, I don't think they will. ~ Again I think I'd be more interested if this is more a bunch of mini-games than if they do something that's more like Dota, which from the descriptions it seems in-between. Because I don't think you can have a really stripped down version of Dota really work, it won't have the longevity. (and LoL, for all the complaints, even as someone who doesn't play it I can see it isn't 'that' stripped down) I don't think MMO roles would work at all in a hero brawler (gotta give the term a shot) game. The entire tank class is based around aggro, which just doesn't work if the enemy is a human and not an AI. Also, I don't think it would even be such a good idea. I think you would either have to have a super rigid system, where it straight up didn't allow you to pick 5 healers for example, or it would cause a huge amount of rage if something like that happened. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:06 canikizu wrote: Well they won't do whatever they want because the company wouldn't hire someone who would do that. Valve's an enormously wealthy company with a relatively tiny staff. If people don't manage themselves then that system wouldn't work. (And in some instances it doesn't)That just means they have one big ass raid boss to order them around, not means they can do whatever the they want and got paid for it. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:07 cecek wrote: Again doesn't LoL already have that sort of forced meta thing going on? I at least feel like I keep on hearing people complain about it.I don't think MMO roles would work at all in a hero brawler (gotta give the term a shot) game. The entire tank class is based around aggro, which just doesn't work if the enemy is a human and not an AI. Also, I don't think it would even be such a good idea. I think you would either have to have a super rigid system, where it straight up didn't allow you to pick 5 healers for example, or it would cause a huge amount of rage if something like that happened. And yeah tanks don't really make sense. I mean you could make a character which acts like a tank such as Axe but it's not really the same thing. hero brawler (gotta give the term a shot) game And it was never said again... | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Btw, how often do you write something and not edit it 20 seconds later to add something? :D | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:08 teapoted wrote: Well they won't do whatever they want because the company wouldn't hire someone who would do that. Valve's an enormously wealthy company with a relatively tiny staff. If people don't manage themselves then that system wouldn't work. (And in some instances it doesn't) Yeah. They still have staff managers (Gaben is presumably one of them), and they have fired people before, sometimes really high profile people as well. You're expected to work on stuff, but you will have absolutely no oversight over what you're actually working on. No business manager will be whining on you to "We need a new AAA game, preferably with either "revelations" or "origins" in the title, and finish it within a year. New IP?! GET OUT!" *cough EA cough* Their handbook stated something like: "You have no boss, and Gabe Newell is your biggest not boss" | ||
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