On April 22 2012 19:59 Catch]22 wrote: Sniper is really more of a trilane-hero who needs to be taken care of for the first 20 minutes ( moreso than your regular hard carries ) whereas SF can just Mid and play around, so no, I'd say they are nothing alike.
Actually, Sniper having some decent solo mid matchups is one of his few saving graces that actually gets him picked occasionally in China.
His solo lane matchups are arguably way more reliable than Shadowfiend (who has a lot of mid matchups that can straight-up shut him out of the game on level 1).
I don't understand the multitude of players using tryhard as an insult.
"Herp derp you want to play the game to the best of your potential? LOL TRYHARD LOL."
It's just some stupid insult to use when someone is better than you and you want an excuse for losing. "Oh I wasn't trying as hard as you lololol."
Same with all these players saying "it's a pub game" like that's supposed to mean something. You are not competitive players, all you fucking play are pub games.
I mean it makes sense when those kinds of things come from pro players because yeah sometimes they want to just play with their shitty friends and yeah pub games are completely unimportant to them but 90% of the community talks like they are pro players.
On April 22 2012 19:59 Catch]22 wrote: Sniper is really more of a trilane-hero who needs to be taken care of for the first 20 minutes ( moreso than your regular hard carries ) whereas SF can just Mid and play around, so no, I'd say they are nothing alike.
Actually, Sniper having some decent solo mid matchups is one of his few saving graces that actually gets him picked occasionally in China.
His solo lane matchups are arguably way more reliable than Shadowfiend (who has a lot of mid matchups that can straight-up shut him out of the game on level 1).
how so??
SF starts with ~10 less base damage than anyone else in order to balance out the fact that he gets Necromastery stacks (he has the second-lowest base damage in the game, after Goblin Techies). This means that it's hard for him to GET last-hits though at the start of the game, especially coupled with the fact that Shadowraze is incredibly weak before level 3, which means you have zero trading power against anyone. Essentially, the playability of the lane is often dependent on how many creeps you get on the first wave--if you can get enough stacks to close the damage gap and make lasthitting easier for yourself, you can snowball the lane, but likewise if the other guy gets 1-2 denies more and hits level 2 before you, you can just get shoved completely off the lane due to your complete inability to trade with them.
Note that quite a few of the times that SF has been played so far in DotA 2, it has been as part of a duo lane against a 3-1-1 or 2-1-1+jungle setup, which allows the support to safely get SF to 8 stacks at level 1, and then pull creeps for the rest of laning while SF smoothly plays a solo matchup with max Necromastery stacks.
On April 22 2012 19:59 Catch]22 wrote: Sniper is really more of a trilane-hero who needs to be taken care of for the first 20 minutes ( moreso than your regular hard carries ) whereas SF can just Mid and play around, so no, I'd say they are nothing alike.
Actually, Sniper having some decent solo mid matchups is one of his few saving graces that actually gets him picked occasionally in China.
His solo lane matchups are arguably way more reliable than Shadowfiend (who has a lot of mid matchups that can straight-up shut him out of the game on level 1).
how so??
SF starts with ~10 less base damage than anyone else in order to balance out the fact that he gets Necromastery stacks (he has the second-lowest base damage in the game, after Goblin Techies). This means that it's hard for him to GET last-hits though at the start of the game, especially coupled with the fact that Shadowraze is incredibly weak before level 3, which means you have zero trading power against anyone. Essentially, the playability of the lane is often dependent on how many creeps you get on the first wave--if you can get enough stacks to close the damage gap and make lasthitting easier for yourself, you can snowball the lane, but likewise if the other guy gets 1-2 denies more and hits level 2 before you, you can just get shoved completely off the lane due to your complete inability to trade with them.
Note that quite a few of the times that SF has been played so far in DotA 2, it has been as part of a duo lane against a 3-1-1 or 2-1-1+jungle setup, which allows the support to safely get SF to 8 stacks at level 1, and then pull creeps for the rest of laning while SF smoothly plays a solo matchup with max Necromastery stacks.
wow shit, i didn't realise SF had such a low base damage, i always felt that somehow it was harder to LH with sniper lol.
now that you mention it, SF has a lot been in a dual lane hmm.
if you want to play to your pontential you wont solo que matchmaking... no I dont use it as an insult to someone being better than me, I use it when someone does something which is not fun for me or for him, like trilaning in a pub with am, lich, es, Im sorry but that is not fun for anyone, ofc you will win that game, no pub can beat a trilane antimage... why do you think that not pro players should care about pub games, they are just pub game, they mean absolutely nothing
On April 23 2012 00:52 konadora wrote: wow shit, i didn't realise SF had such a low base damage, i always felt that somehow it was harder to LH with sniper lol.
Sniper's base damage actually isn't that much better than SF, but Sniper's enormous range advantage means that particularly in vs. Melee matchups, he can start making things very uncomfortable for the enemy laner starting at level 2.
Unrelated:
Zenith vs. LGD scrim.
I'm very impressed with Zenith's early-game fundamentals (obs missed both kills bottom, but ice completely trashed LGD early game). That said, LGD also showing the strength of their teamplay even in the face of an awkward laning phase.
On April 23 2012 01:01 Curu wrote: When you play nothing but pub games saying "it's a pub game so I don't try" is just so fucking stupid it's unbelievable.
Complaining about tryharding is like deciding to 6 worker rush in every SC2 game then whining when you lose.
The attitude is the same. If you decide you don't want to use Marines because it's not fun, don't whine about your opponent when he makes an air unit.
Most people in DotA think they are better than they are because they have the option of blaming many factors out of their control for their losses. It makes for an unbelievably annoying attitude where players spend the entirety of losing games typing to find every reason for why nothing was their fault. Seriously in what other type of game would you not get laughed off the face of the earth for saying "you only won because you picked a better strategy, nerd."
I have nothing against people who don't want to play completely srsface. I also hate it when there's an Antimage or trilane in the game, on my team or the enemy's. But I really hate people who whine about it and try to insult other people for wanting to play the best strategies. It's your choice to play suboptimally, that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to have to as well just because you want to.
So is there like a vod thread in this subforum? I've never played dota before so I don't have a clue about anything but I've been getting more and more curious about dota2.
On April 23 2012 00:52 konadora wrote: wow shit, i didn't realise SF had such a low base damage, i always felt that somehow it was harder to LH with sniper lol.
Sniper's base damage actually isn't that much better than SF, but Sniper's enormous range advantage means that particularly in vs. Melee matchups, he can start making things very uncomfortable for the enemy laner starting at level 2.
I'm very impressed with Zenith's early-game fundamentals (obs missed both kills bottom, but ice completely trashed LGD early game). That said, LGD also showing the strength of their teamplay even in the face of an awkward laning phase.
Sniper has 1 more base dmg and no necromastery, but is blessed with one of the best attack animations in the game and insane range, which makes his last hitting decent once u get used to it. (being able to start something like wraith band nowadays tango branch also helps) while SF last hitting becomes ez mode once u get a decent amount of souls while the opposition can generally deny you of all cs before that
Yeah, that game, the strength of the Chinese has always been team execution and willingness to play for victory.
I say tryharding is when you 5 man stack in pubs aka pub stomping. Yea we 5 strangers will beat you and your TS/Vent teammates. Real fun.
On April 23 2012 01:31 koreasilver wrote: So is there like a vod thread in this subforum? I've never played dota before so I don't have a clue about anything but I've been getting more and more curious about dota2.
I think it is better to go to joindota.com for most of your dota 2 needs. They have VODS and stuff over there or hit up a livestream and watch some pros play. Synderen is one of the better ones as he is really informative although he caters more towards mid to higher skilled players. I suppose the best thing to read before you jump into a game is this: Welcome to Dota, you suck. Gives a good albeit indepth overview of how to start playing dota.
tryhard doesnt mean that they tried hard to win, it means the won in a way that the opponent had no way to do anything against, aka. 5 man stack with TS/vent using a trilane and good hero lineup, like the pub opponents have literaly no way do do anything against it....
Just for the record: For me, a tryhard is someone who thinks that an AP pub game is the best representation of skill there is.
It's AP. If you click fast enough you can get the most imba team possible, with as many top picks as you want. And if it's a 5-man-stack vs 5 randoms, then yeah, you're gonna win. I hate watching progamers stream, when they encounter a stack and all that stack does is hunt them down the whole game. That's not being good at the game, that's being a dick.
As for counterpicking: I've seen people wait ages to pick, because someone on the enemy team did it too. "I have to counterpick." >_>
EPT
