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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 04 2013 01:29 dfs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 01:26 teapoted wrote:
He is a player for EG which people blame all their losses for ignoring the fact that they have a captain who gets drowned in praise who might actually be a bigger part of the issues that team has. The only issue Fear has is that he is only 1 man and he can't have a team that consists only of himself. Yes, reading TL you'd think Fear is the greatest player on earth.
I have a hard time not blaming the way EG loses on the captain. As it has been this way through multiple line-ups. Not that fear is a bad player, but I can't see how he's a good captain if his players always play bad. Jeyo didn't play this bad on other teams. He was always criticised sure, but not like this.
So all EG fans now say 'kick jeyo', but if they'd do that, I don't think much would really change.
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On November 04 2013 01:12 []Phase[] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 00:45 SKC wrote:
It was a "he" on Dota 1, but the lore in Dota 2 uses "it'. "She" would probally the worst one to pick. When I think of Puck, I think of Puck from A Midsummer Night's Dream. I always thought that was where the name came from, tho I assume that also originated from someplace else. In any case, in the play he's male, therefore I assumed he was some kind of young male faerie dragon or something. Might not be relevant to beliefs on the dota 2 version, but I'm happy with my stance on it.
Puck is a pretty lady and no one is going to convince me otherwise.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
When did the Fear circlejerk start, anyway? Wasn't it when he won Fistful of Tangoes that suddenly people saw him as the god of dota. I'm pretty sure he used to get flamed for farming too much before and it suddenly turned around magically.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
The puck in dota 2 is definitely feminine
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'.
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Well I don't think anyone can deny Fear is a really skilled player. As a captain I don't know, but definitely one of the top player based on individual skill. And Empire has been on fire lately, you can't blame EG so much for losing against them, it's probably better to reckon Empire's performance.
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On November 04 2013 01:32 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 01:29 dfs wrote:On November 04 2013 01:26 teapoted wrote:
He is a player for EG which people blame all their losses for ignoring the fact that they have a captain who gets drowned in praise who might actually be a bigger part of the issues that team has. The only issue Fear has is that he is only 1 man and he can't have a team that consists only of himself. Yes, reading TL you'd think Fear is the greatest player on earth. I have a hard time not blaming the way EG loses on the captain. As it has been this way through multiple line-ups. Not that fear is a bad player, but I can't see how he's a good captain if his players always play bad. Jeyo didn't play this bad on other teams. He was always criticised sure, but not like this.
Putting together a talented team is hard and there is a subset of "high level" players are developed nasty habits of blaming their team mates. That sort of stuff happens in professional sports, but those teams have coaches that manage those issues. Also, other teams, more established teams liked Na'vi and Alliance won't have the issues as much with new players, because what new player is going to blame Dendi or Puppy? Fear has a rough job and making a competitive team is going to require them to break some eggs.
On November 04 2013 01:40 Gevna wrote:
Well I don't think anyone can deny Fear is a really skilled player. As a captain I don't know, but definitely one of the top player based on individual skill. And Empire has been on fire lately, you can't blame EG so much for losing against them, it's probably better to reckon Empire's performance.
Being a captain is not a skill you develop over night, it takes time. Its about managing people as much as knowing the game. No one wakes up in the morning and is Puppy.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'.
Has anyone really called ZSMJ's support play amazing? I don't know about that... Also, Burning, Sylar and Hao all get a ton of praise from casters and the community.
Also, majority of people agree that EternalEnvy plays better on a carry than on a support. I don't think you can make that generalization that you're trying to make.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 04 2013 01:42 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'. Has anyone really called ZSMJ's support play amazing? I don't know about that... Also, Burning, Sylar and Hao all get a ton of praise from casters and the community. Yes, most of the Chinese carries do (ofc not Zhou), but it has nothing to do with how they perform. Statistically, which is a good measurement for carry players (not so much supports), the western carries who get flamed constantly are equal or often better.
It's a matter of perception. A carry player dies, it's the end of the world. A support dies, who cares. A carry player you dislike dies, he's terrible. A carry play you like dies, it's forgiveable, it was his team, it was the other team spending a lot of resources to get him, etc...
And yes, a lot of people praise ZSMJ's support play. And it is good, I'm not denying that.
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On November 04 2013 01:44 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 01:42 cecek wrote:On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'. Has anyone really called ZSMJ's support play amazing? I don't know about that... Also, Burning, Sylar and Hao all get a ton of praise from casters and the community. Yes, most of the Chinese carries do (ofc not Zhou), but it has nothing to do with how they perform. Statistically, which is a good measurement for carry players (not so much supports), the western carries who get flamed constantly are equal or often better. And yes, a lot of people praise ZSMJ's support play.
Yeah, I always wondered what the fuck people were talking about when they would say things like "Western carries don't have the brilliance of Burning." Then I would watch a match with him and be like "he is clearly right clicking at the right time and avoiding death." But fandom is always irrational and anyone can justify why their favorite player is so amazing and brilliant.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Also, majority of people agree that EternalEnvy plays better on a carry than on a support. I don't think you can make that generalization that you're trying to make. EE gets flamed constantly for his carry play.
He also got flamed constantly for his support play.
This isn't really a good example. I'm not saying these players are bad at support. Fear and ZSMJ are good at support.
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On November 04 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
Being a captain is not a skill you develop over night, it takes time. Its about managing people as much as knowing the game. No one wakes up in the morning and is Puppy.
Man you just killed my dream, each morning I rush to the bathroom, look at the mirror and check my hair. But no indeed, I'm still not Puppey :-/
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everyone is terrible right guys
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
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I think Burning gets praise because he always has a team that is so good at allowing him to come back where as other carries generally don't have this team.
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On November 04 2013 02:00 Numy wrote:
I think Burning gets praise because he always has a team that is so good at allowing him to come back where as other carries generally don't have this team.
He has a team that just wins the game 4v5 while he is doing whatever.
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On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'.
So Zhou(getting flamed a lot) is performing on the same level as Burning(gettingpraised)? Like burning doesnt die in silly ways that much =)
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 04 2013 02:16 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'. So Zhou(getting flamed a lot) is performing on the same level as Burning(gettingpraised)? Like burning doesnt die in silly ways that much =) I think you missed the point.
Obviously people perform at different levels but in general carry players are criticized a lot more than players in every other position. To the point where if you just read comments you'd think all carry players are terrible.
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On November 04 2013 02:23 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 02:16 zezamer wrote:On November 04 2013 01:39 teapoted wrote:
As I've said multiple times before. All carry players are shit.
ZSMJ return disappointing. Move to support, now he's amazing. Fear carry medicore. Move to support, amazing. The only one that doesn't fit this is XBOCT, but he only plays support when he's lagging.
It just has to do with people not understanding carry play. I mean people praise Burning. But Burning really doesn't perform better than the carries who get flamed. It's because every death to someone you hate means he's shit. Burning dies it's like 'eh whatever'. So Zhou(getting flamed a lot) is performing on the same level as Burning(gettingpraised)? Like burning doesnt die in silly ways that much =) I think you missed the point. Obviously people perform at different levels but in general carry players are criticized a lot more than players in every other position. To the point where if you just read comments you'd think all carry players are terrible.
Ah, ok. Haven't read couple last pages =9, carry players do get way more shit than other roles, havost earlier and black lately
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EPT
