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To the Chinese, I agree that what Banana said wasn't considered racist. Some countries aren't being as sensitive as the others. But still, it's definitely considered racist in the global manner. Just like the recent Dunkin's donuts case from Thailand. They made a commercial about a girl eating a donut and her whole body turns black because of the deep chocolate flavor of the donut and no one in Thailand thinks it's racist. However the commercial got banned in Thailand because the US dunkin received many complains about it. Things are accessible everywhere now with the internet and that's why the looking at racism case with the global point of view is important.
Banana actually got criticized by a Chinese caster that he's being racist with his comment on Chuan. However the Chinese community doesn't really act against his comment because the majority of them also hate Chuan. That's why I wonder what happened between Chuan and Zhou several months before TI3. It was definitely racist of him to say that but it's unfortunate that people are on his side not because they're all racist, but because they hate Chuan as well.
So what happened?? I'm sure the Chinese crowd loved Chuan after TI2.
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On September 10 2013 02:13 aintz wrote:
so some idiot posts that most chinese are racists and you believed him? thats a problem right there dont you think.
Why is there a problem in acknowledging that there's a problem?
From my experience and from the experiences of my friends,* yes, I firmly believe that China is a place that is rampant with casual racism, an attitude that is in part due to bad blood between countries and in part rooted in some ridiculous superiority complex.
*And to cover my bases, yes, I'm Asian (Taiwanese), and I have spoken to my Asian (Singaporean, Chinese, HK, Korean, Japanese) friends about racism in Asia, and they all agree.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf. Am I really going to need to explain this further? I'd think what I said would be clear enough, but here I go.
'Racist' remarks are a method of offending. The degree of which varies between different cultures, between different communities, between different people.
Think of it like stealing. Stealing is a crime, everywhere, but the severity of which differs everywhere. And it also differs based on the amount which is stolen. So, while the slightest degree of racism might be equivalent to a bank robbery in some countries, in others it's pickpocketing. This has nothing to do with the morality and what's right as a human being in a global culture, because that's not a realistic way to look at issues.
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Well this topic has been quite derailed.
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On September 10 2013 02:13 aintz wrote:
so some idiot posts that most chinese are racists and you believed him? thats a problem right there dont you think.
chinese people, and in extension, the rest of east asian nations are super xenophobic.
sweeping generalization I know, but it's a kind of mentality that's always been prevalent in that geography.
so on topic, were people complaining that chuan was unprofessional with that tweet, or was it something else they were accusing him of?
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In before we talk politics in less than 10 posts.
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On September 10 2013 02:30 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf. Am I really going to need to explain this further? I'd think what I said would be clear enough, but here I go. 'Racist' remarks are a method of offending. The degree of which varies between different cultures, between different communities, between different people. Think of it like stealing. Stealing is a crime, everywhere, but the severity of which differs everywhere. And it also differs based on the amount which is stolen. So, while the slightest degree of racism might be equivalent to a bank robbery in some countries, in others it's pickpocketing. This has nothing to do with the morality and what's right as a human being in a global culture, because that's not a realistic way to look at issues.
We are talking past each other.
I don't give a shit about whether or not someone is offended by a racist remark, and I don't care about "degrees of racism" here. It does not change the fact that "Malaysian dog" is a racist remark, because the race or the racial aspect of a person is being turned into a pejorative.
Nowhere did I mention morality, but as long as we're on the topic, I think that intentionally trying to harm someone of your own free will with no higher stakes involved is flat-out wrong.
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On September 10 2013 02:43 GodBlessMali wrote:
In before we talk politics in less than 10 posts.
Nazis
There, Godwin's law
Can we place get back ontopic
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this is becoming SC2 level of whine and drama mongering.
people say dumb shit sometimes, it's ok guys can we stop now?
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I thought godwin's law was "Hitler" not "Nazi's".
But yeah racism is objectively bad because Hitler >_>
OT: Why's the west so bad at finalizing their swaps? 
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On September 10 2013 02:52 Sn0_Man wrote:I thought godwin's law was "Hitler" not "Nazi's". But yeah racism is objectively bad because Hitler >_> OT: Why's the west so bad at finalizing their swaps?
well liquid is playing in weplay, which starts in 2 days, so they're finalized
edit: nvm, not until the 25th
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Liquids probably going retain their "Best team NA" title based on rumors.
EG's roster is finalized, I'm sure.
I dont know about Dignitas, Fogged has been emo honestly.
KP is finalized, Envy has been emo about scrims recently (but wasn't taking them too seriously).
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Why don't we all agree that Banana's comment is clearly morally objectionable and leave it there? This is a post about transfers after all and the comment has done nothing to prevent his transfer (on the rumours).
I am curious about where Rattlesnakes will go with their trio of decent players, maybe they would be that desperate team that picks up Chuan despite the "clubhouse poison" reputation.
I suspect the NA teams having non-finalized roster has something to do with contract status of the players on the move.
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Sneak pick at the new DK vs new TF (both with 1 "standin") - http://dotabuff.com/matches/304575289 . Mushi destroying Mu in mid and BurNIng solo against trilane.
For those, who's lazy to look up Steam ID's:
Mu - TA, Xtt - Bat, ZSMJ - Naga, Zhou - Gyro, LongDD (standin) - Rubick;
Dai - Bane, LaNm - SWM, BurNIng - AM, Mushi - QoP, Kabu (standin) - Clock.
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The Chinese/Taiwanese certainly talk about race a lot more than you'll hear in the States or Europe. I wouldn't say the people are racist because of it, but it is a matter of nationalism.
It's how to put it... a double standard type of racism. Every so often you'll hear something racist with intent but at the same time they're accepting of others. It's more about national pride than race or superiority. What banana said seems to be in retaliation to the disrespect given to zhou.
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On September 10 2013 02:44 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:30 teapoted wrote:On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf. Am I really going to need to explain this further? I'd think what I said would be clear enough, but here I go. 'Racist' remarks are a method of offending. The degree of which varies between different cultures, between different communities, between different people. Think of it like stealing. Stealing is a crime, everywhere, but the severity of which differs everywhere. And it also differs based on the amount which is stolen. So, while the slightest degree of racism might be equivalent to a bank robbery in some countries, in others it's pickpocketing. This has nothing to do with the morality and what's right as a human being in a global culture, because that's not a realistic way to look at issues. We are talking past each other. I don't give a shit about whether or not someone is offended by a racist remark, and I don't care about "degrees of racism" here. It does not change the fact that "Malaysian dog" is a racist remark, because the race or the racial aspect of a person is being turned into a pejorative. Nowhere did I mention morality, but as long as we're on the topic, I think that intentionally trying to harm someone of your own free will with no higher stakes involved is flat-out wrong.
So basically what you're saying is that you don't care about the topic at all, ok.
On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf.
It doesn't make it less racist, it makes it less relevant.
On September 10 2013 02:21 RiZu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 00:47 BlitzerSC wrote:
Banana is just jelly that Chuan is better than 99,99% of pro chinese players. You are overestimating Chuan a bit too much...
And underestimate banana.
On September 10 2013 01:33 oneofthem wrote:
banana should be banned from all competitive play for his comment. honestly don't see how this is a huge black eye for the chinese scene
connotations, cultural frame of reference, exact phrasing and wording are pretty much impossible to get carried over in a translation
On September 10 2013 01:40 ch33psh33p wrote:
Chuan's shit was way more offensive than Bannanas.
I strongly agree with that.
On September 10 2013 01:51 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:41 teapoted wrote:
SpawN is Swedish though. Chuan aint Chinese.
Either way, it depends on the culture and the phrasing. You can hide behind "culture and phrasing" excuses all day, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a very racist remark.
It really does change everything.
On September 10 2013 01:54 aintz wrote:
im chinese and i still like him, i like skilled players.
saying "burden dropped" vs "malaysian dog" is a big pretty difference wouldn't you say. bananas an idiot.
And I'll say chuan is an idiot.
On September 10 2013 02:05 oneofthem wrote:
don't really see how a fact like 'most chinese are racist' makes a racist remark any less offensive. it would make it even more of a problem, since it highlights a problem with the general culture over there.
This post itself is far more questionable than anything banana said.
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I'll just leave it here that calling someone 'dog' in SEA/Chinese culture is one of the most offensive things you can say.
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On September 10 2013 03:59 treeqt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:44 babylon wrote:On September 10 2013 02:30 teapoted wrote:On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf. Am I really going to need to explain this further? I'd think what I said would be clear enough, but here I go. 'Racist' remarks are a method of offending. The degree of which varies between different cultures, between different communities, between different people. Think of it like stealing. Stealing is a crime, everywhere, but the severity of which differs everywhere. And it also differs based on the amount which is stolen. So, while the slightest degree of racism might be equivalent to a bank robbery in some countries, in others it's pickpocketing. This has nothing to do with the morality and what's right as a human being in a global culture, because that's not a realistic way to look at issues. We are talking past each other. I don't give a shit about whether or not someone is offended by a racist remark, and I don't care about "degrees of racism" here. It does not change the fact that "Malaysian dog" is a racist remark, because the race or the racial aspect of a person is being turned into a pejorative. Nowhere did I mention morality, but as long as we're on the topic, I think that intentionally trying to harm someone of your own free will with no higher stakes involved is flat-out wrong. So basically what you're saying is that you don't care about the topic at all, ok. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:13 babylon wrote:
Uh? Just because it's not as offensive in one country as it is in another doesn't make it any less racist. If someone calls me a chink on the street, and I'm not personally offended, does that somehow make them less racist than if I were personally offended? Wtf. It doesn't make it less racist, it makes it less relevant. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:21 RiZu wrote:On September 10 2013 00:47 BlitzerSC wrote:
Banana is just jelly that Chuan is better than 99,99% of pro chinese players. You are overestimating Chuan a bit too much... And underestimate banana. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:33 oneofthem wrote:
banana should be banned from all competitive play for his comment. honestly don't see how this is a huge black eye for the chinese scene connotations, cultural frame of reference, exact phrasing and wording are pretty much impossible to get carried over in a translation Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:40 ch33psh33p wrote:
Chuan's shit was way more offensive than Bannanas. I strongly agree with that. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:51 babylon wrote:On September 10 2013 01:41 teapoted wrote:
SpawN is Swedish though. Chuan aint Chinese.
Either way, it depends on the culture and the phrasing. You can hide behind "culture and phrasing" excuses all day, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a very racist remark. It really does change everything. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:54 aintz wrote:
im chinese and i still like him, i like skilled players.
saying "burden dropped" vs "malaysian dog" is a big pretty difference wouldn't you say. bananas an idiot. And I'll say chuan is an idiot. Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:05 oneofthem wrote:
don't really see how a fact like 'most chinese are racist' makes a racist remark any less offensive. it would make it even more of a problem, since it highlights a problem with the general culture over there. This post itself is far more questionable than anything banana said.
1. No, it doesn't mean I don't care about the topic at all.
2. Good, I see we agree, it doesn't make it any less racist. Awesome.
3. No, it doesn't change everything.
Yay to effortless one-line remarks.
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On September 10 2013 02:27 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:13 aintz wrote:
so some idiot posts that most chinese are racists and you believed him? thats a problem right there dont you think. Why is there a problem in acknowledging that there's a problem? From my experience and from the experiences of my friends,* yes, I firmly believe that China is a place that is rampant with casual racism, an attitude that is in part due to bad blood between countries and in part rooted in some ridiculous superiority complex. *And to cover my bases, yes, I'm Asian (Taiwanese), and I have spoken to my Asian (Singaporean, Chinese, HK, Korean, Japanese) friends about racism in Asia, and they all agree.
i lived the first 11 years of my life in china and ive never even heard of the word racism until i moved to canada and experienced it first hand. young racists (kids born after the 80s) are generally uneducated idiots unlike the older generation who mightve been shaped by their experiences.
ive met many foreign people when i was growing up in china (we lived on campus of a university and get travellers often) and everyone treated them with respect.
i dont care what race you are, spewing racist comments when you are upset is just stupid and it shows everyone around you how stupid you are.
please dont make judgement about a country with more than 1 billion people because you and your friends have your own opinions. ive met many people from difference races and to say that chinese are more racist than the average first world population is just absurd. less open and friendly however would be a more accurate description.
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What Banana said is racist, that's certain and we should leave it there. He just got lucky because he's not famous and he didn't say it in English on facebook or twitter.
This DK vs Tongfu though http://dotabuff.com/matches/304575289
....that 12 deaths Gyro :D
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EPT
