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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VcYjUX!aVf!ZYZaYY
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VcYdUX!aVf!ZYZaYY
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#iYXQjP!giX!ccZYbZ
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#iYXQjP!giX!ccZYYZ
2 Monks
2 Witchdoctors
Abusing the most broken skills/passives. I can't imagine most of these abilities or passives making it past a month of retail.
quick Recap of abusive things
- vision quest for imba mana regen
- blood ritual + mass healing further exacerbates the imba mana regen
- big party wide support skills from WD and monk stacking team bonuses
- Double mantras, +24% damage, and evasion + armor.
- Tons of debuffs
- Good pure damage from WD spam
- Abusing best mathematical and utlity skills in the game.
- Great for inferno runs with little gear.
To summarize, the monks are unkillable, working together as the main tanks accompanied by WD support minions and hex spam. The deal out tons of cripple/heals/debuffs/stuns, while the witch doctors cast their high cooldown abilities in key situations and just spam the F out of Corpse Bomb abusing imba regen, 3x regen and 15% less mana costs, offsetting the penalties with monk healing. Basically imagine a normal spammable ability that does high AOE damage, that's what the WD have ALONG with huge buffs and ultimate abilities.
This is THE solution to Diablo 3, the best party possible. As you gear up you could possibly add in a barb for a monk, but that's iffy.
I GUARANTEE every part of this build is nerfed by retail or at least within 4 weeks of release. Vision Quest is broken in terms of what it does at what cost, The rest is just stacking every abusive ability into one single 4 man team, very straightforward.
things for sure nerfed: vision quest, guiding light
guiding light doesn't even make sense as the monk has no direct heal skills.
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Aren't you tired of making theorycrafting threads by now? You can't possibly know any of this to really be true from the beta.
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On March 03 2012 18:34 FinestHour wrote:
Aren't you tired of making theorycrafting threads by now? You can't possibly know any of this to really be true from the beta.
It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. Also it will be fun to see when they nerf this stuff.
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Just about all of your Diablo 3 threads are full of pretentious statements like this. How about you take a step down and wait for release before you claim yourself an "expert" etc.
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my brothers and i only play sorceror. four sorcerors ftw~! =)
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On March 03 2012 18:37 dacthehork wrote:
It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. Also it will be fun to see when they nerf this stuff.
Go to any game forum to the archive section. Search for theorycrafting threads before release and shortly thereafter. Laugh at all the total bullcrap 'experts' were writing in them 
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On March 03 2012 18:24 dacthehork wrote:
- Great for inferno runs with little gear.
Are you sure? What are you gonna do about the act 3 boss? It hardcounters this build >_>
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On March 03 2012 18:51 FeiLing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 18:37 dacthehork wrote:
It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. Also it will be fun to see when they nerf this stuff. Go to any game forum to the archive section. Search for theorycrafting threads before release and shortly thereafter. Laugh at all the total bullcrap 'experts' were writing in them
I remember my Beta SC2 predictions
Zerg had nothing but macro and was one dimensional, Terran had by far the biggest and most variety in it's toolset and was the best race because of this and would be a pain to balance, and Protoss relied on forcefields early, so the maps would greatly influence how good they where.
I also remember predicting that Terran would have tools taken away to balance them, loe and behold reaper was utterly nerfed to uselessness and now even the ghost is turned one dimensional. It's easy to figure out how blizzard balances, they are pretty good at getting most things "seemingly" balanced but fail when thinking about toolsets and how those work.
Vision quest is a great example, how Diablo 3 works is you don't really mind using 1-3 skill constantly without much variety. vision quest allows you to take 3 long cooldown skills, and 1 short cooldown skill that you will always use, and just by going this style you get 300% mana regen, 3x total. It's not even a bad tradeoff taking long cd skills, and you can turn that 3x mana regen and 15% of maan cost into health (this is funny cuz 30 hp is nothing now) and just destroy
If you look at passives and even stuff like guiding light they don't even make sense, this shows blizz really is not focusing too heavy of a focus on these skills. These builds are OUTRIGHT broken, thats why I'm so guaranteed they will be nerfed. The tools all combined are seriously hilarious, mass confusions, hexes, blinding flashes, serenity (5s bubble), etc are just hilariously stupid. Then a conviction aura increasing party damage by a quarter ALONE, there is just a ton of hilarious buffs that are just too good and easy to see.
Again just look at a passive like resolve and combine it with a runed crippling wave on monk. just that one passive and generator combo is nerfing enemy damage heavily, now stack those type of abilities across 4 heroes. Again the balance they have gives maybe +30% to one skill with a rune, these abilities give +24% damage to an entire party.
There are a ton of "mandatory" runes too, like ballistics to even bother taking a rocket based DH skill. It's very easy to say they have to balance the skills around the runes, meanign something like vision quest just becomes mandatory for any witch doctor, its just TOO good.
Anyone with a semi background in rpgs can look at VQ and know it's stupid.
there is also a fundamental superiority to the WD and MOnk in D3. By design they are party centric characters, with many party buffs or aoe utilility abilities that Scale heavily as the party size increases.
+24% damage taken by enemies, is amazing in a 4 person party, +15% damage to one character is not so amazing. The way the designed the semi-support classes (monk and WD) was giving them a lot of party wide tools. By stacking these supports on top of supports, and some just broken stuff like vision quest etc, you get a ridiculously broken result.
they wont specifically balance for 4 man parties, meaning the WD/Monk who excel in parties, also have to have great solo skills, dps, etc. Combining all of these into one team build the result is basically overpowered, and the design goals of the game support this. Some other classes also have some party buffing skills, but not to the extent of WD/monk.
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I'm bookmarking this thread.
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On March 03 2012 19:13 kuresuti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 18:24 dacthehork wrote:
- Great for inferno runs with little gear.
Are you sure? What are you gonna do about the act 3 boss? It hardcounters this build >_>
whos the act 3 boss?
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On March 03 2012 20:08 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:13 kuresuti wrote:On March 03 2012 18:24 dacthehork wrote:
- Great for inferno runs with little gear.
Are you sure? What are you gonna do about the act 3 boss? It hardcounters this build >_> whos the act 3 boss?
That one big dude who counters this.
+ Show Spoiler +
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@ dacthehork: ur a genius! a living legend! ... :=)
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Just so you know, there's more than one ideal party.
Think of this like a formula with at least 11 different factors for each character (x5) [skills(6), passive(3), stats(2)] and 3 more factors for pvE (monsters, environment, handicap).
You basically "figured" one of the 8729110000+ combinations (based on 14 factors, there's actually more). There's a lot more combinations to review and compare before you can say this is "solved". In therms of efficiency, I'm not sure its the most efficient party because some skills overlap.
Personally, I wouldn't play a Monk (hardcore mode) in Hell+ difficulty because his primary stat is "dexterity" which convert into dodge % which makes the damage input very random and hard to deal with.
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On March 03 2012 19:14 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 18:51 FeiLing wrote:On March 03 2012 18:37 dacthehork wrote:
It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. Also it will be fun to see when they nerf this stuff. Go to any game forum to the archive section. Search for theorycrafting threads before release and shortly thereafter. Laugh at all the total bullcrap 'experts' were writing in them I remember my Beta SC2 predictions Zerg had nothing but macro and was one dimensional, Terran had by far the biggest and most variety in it's toolset and was the best race because of this and would be a pain to balance, and Protoss relied on forcefields early, so the maps would greatly influence how good they where. I also remember predicting that Terran would have tools taken away to balance them, loe and behold reaper was utterly nerfed to uselessness and now even the ghost is turned one dimensional. It's easy to figure out how blizzard balances, they are pretty good at getting most things "seemingly" balanced but fail when thinking about toolsets and how those work.
Got a link to where you predicted all of this?
First off can I ask what you personally hope to get out of making a thread like this?
The way you speak makes you come off as so assured of yourself that I have a hard time believing you are looking for feedback. Do you just want us all to awe at your 'expert' superior intellect?
What is your goal for this configuration?
To not die? Is this a HC build?
If you think this configuration has any shot of being a fast and efficient killing group you are a real sweetheart
I mean do you actually think Mass Confusion and the rune from Blinding flash is going to speed up your killing efficiency at all? You have Resolve and Crippling Wave on your monks (it can't be correct to have these most likely unstackable effects on both monks) which lowers the damage they will deal to each other as well.
The entire configuration is defensive and you think it's going to be imbalanced that monsters around your level and gear quality won't be able to threaten you?
I don't understand how you could think this is ideal for anything other than staying in normal difficulty until the expansion comes out being that your only offensive skills over 4 characters are
2x Acid Cloud
2x Crippling Wave with defensive rune
2x Lashing Tail Kick with defensive rune
And then... Zombie Dogs...
And Fetishes.
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On March 03 2012 18:37 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 18:34 FinestHour wrote:
Aren't you tired of making theorycrafting threads by now? You can't possibly know any of this to really be true from the beta. It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. ...
You don't really believe this do you?
If that were true then Blizzard would have no trouble doing the same.. They have an entire department dedicated to things like that.
Now if you were to replace the word "imbalanced" with "among the most powerful", then I can agree with you :D I have little doubt this will be a particularly powerful combination. You seem pretty good at finding powerful combinations, but you vastly overestimate your ability to see all of the other powerful combinations which thoroughly hinders your ability to compare.
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Man Barrin that is the best quote I've ever read on any site anywhere =]
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Seems like a strong comp for chain smoking blunts.
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Looks really boring to play, though. As a WD, I just stand there and jam the LMB over and over and then every 90 seconds I hit LMB, 2, 3, 4 in quick succession? Sweet.
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On March 03 2012 22:55 inReacH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:14 dacthehork wrote:On March 03 2012 18:51 FeiLing wrote:On March 03 2012 18:37 dacthehork wrote:
It's actually pretty easy for an expert to solve a system like this and find imbalanced combinations. Also it will be fun to see when they nerf this stuff. Go to any game forum to the archive section. Search for theorycrafting threads before release and shortly thereafter. Laugh at all the total bullcrap 'experts' were writing in them I remember my Beta SC2 predictions Zerg had nothing but macro and was one dimensional, Terran had by far the biggest and most variety in it's toolset and was the best race because of this and would be a pain to balance, and Protoss relied on forcefields early, so the maps would greatly influence how good they where. I also remember predicting that Terran would have tools taken away to balance them, loe and behold reaper was utterly nerfed to uselessness and now even the ghost is turned one dimensional. It's easy to figure out how blizzard balances, they are pretty good at getting most things "seemingly" balanced but fail when thinking about toolsets and how those work. Got a link to where you predicted all of this? First off can I ask what you personally hope to get out of making a thread like this? The way you speak makes you come off as so assured of yourself that I have a hard time believing you are looking for feedback. Do you just want us all to awe at your 'expert' superior intellect? What is your goal for this configuration? To not die? Is this a HC build? If you think this configuration has any shot of being a fast and efficient killing group you are a real sweetheart I mean do you actually think Mass Confusion and the rune from Blinding flash is going to speed up your killing efficiency at all? You have Resolve and Crippling Wave on your monks (it can't be correct to have these most likely unstackable effects on both monks) which lowers the damage they will deal to each other as well. The entire configuration is defensive and you think it's going to be imbalanced that monsters around your level and gear quality won't be able to threaten you? I don't understand how you could think this is ideal for anything other than staying in normal difficulty until the expansion comes out being that your only offensive skills over 4 characters are 2x Acid Cloud 2x Crippling Wave with defensive rune 2x Lashing Tail Kick with defensive rune And then... Zombie Dogs... And Fetishes.
wrong
Mantra of Conviction +24% damage taken by enemies
2x Hex - +24% damage dealt to hexed enemy
Big Bad Voodoo 1-2x - +30% damage Dealt, +20% attack speed.
Mass Confusion - +20% damage taken
Vision Quest passive - 300% mana regen - 3x the casting of dps mana skill
Blood Ritual - 15% less mana costs for even more spam of high damage mana skill
Guiding Light - +16% damage dealt
266% weapon damage - spell casted 3.45x as often with +16% damage, +30% damage, +20% damage,+24 damage + 24% damage ideally, adds up.
There is no real reason to have more than 1-2 skills to dump mana into for damage on a WD, especially with vision quest, who be casting 1/3rd the normal spells through a variety of meh stuff, just cast the best one 3x as much.
Lashing Tail Kick with stun and Acid Cloud are pretty much the only spenders you need for damage, they dont have cooldowns, so there is no real reason to have two or three spenders.
Vision Quest is a broken passive, blood ritual is pretty broken too. Also this damage is transferred to the dogs, fetishes, etc too. I mean you can make small tweaks depending on the balance of the actual game but this pretty much is abusing everything broken in the game. Also the idea is inferno is ridiculously hard, being able to reliable walk through the difficulty will be very important. Having unkillable tanks for shit like duriel is also key, Basically no downtime, less risk, etc So you can quickly rush through to inferno and farm. Pure damage or "killing" time isn't as important, you only need 1 or so damage skill a player, lashing tail kick / acid cloud. The idea is simply do the most powerful things you can in any format.
I think all three of the last passives mentioned will be revised, (blood ritual, guiding light, and vision quest)
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EPT
