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On February 19 2012 21:21 rehagel wrote: OMG every patch makes the game even worse. Whats next? Items integrated into the UI and don't drop anymore? Diablo 3 has ABSOLUTLY NO CHAR-INDIVIDUALIZATION!
Actually it allows for quicker character individualization and the same amount of it.
I think it's a good idea to allow for maximum skill customization without the requirement of insane grinding and luck to get the actualy runes that finally match the skill set up you want.
This way I can play with the skillset I want and farming is now about the equipment items only. Also as Jay Wilson mentioned, this removes the rather annoying rune swapping that would occur later on whenever you want to try out something else.
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On February 19 2012 21:39 Psyqo wrote: I can't help but feel that every level 60 character will be built the exact same way. There will be class guides that pop up ala Elitist Jerks, and everyone will copy because everyone gets every rune.
Sooo...where is the difference to D2?
I think patch 13 is awesome. This means that you only have to reach lvl 60 to have access to every rune in its most powerful form (though not as powerful as before in the highest lvl as I understood it) and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes you want. Despite that you can still sink in hundrets of hours to find gear so nothing lost for the more hardcore players.
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Blizzard, why do you hate chat channels?
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and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes
That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW!
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Seems OK but what if the rune that unlocks at level 60 is crucial to your build? You have to run through Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulty using a build you don't like?
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On February 19 2012 23:22 rehagel wrote:That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW!
The point of the game is to have fun while farming etc.
What this particular change has to do with WoW I don't know. Apparently WoW is the most casual game on earth or something.
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On February 19 2012 23:33 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 23:22 rehagel wrote:and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW! The point of the game is to have fun while farming etc. What this particular change has to do with WoW I don't know. Apparently WoW is the most casual game on earth or something.
Spot on, I don't see it to be fun to farm for runes, which have probably a really low chance of dropping in general, and then even getting the specific rune you want. And you need to farm for multiple levels. Whereas runes are really crucial to the gameplay, if you only have a chance to make use of them, it would suck.
There's probably still plenty to farm.
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On February 19 2012 23:26 Yacobs wrote: Seems OK but what if the rune that unlocks at level 60 is crucial to your build? You have to run through Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulty using a build you don't like? You only have to run the game once with each class.
Unless you're hardcore.
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For me, Diablo 3 was a casual game as soon as they announced infinite respecs/no skill trees/no stat allocation/less diverse stats on weapons (IMO).
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
I don't really mind these changes because, for me, they don't really affect what the experience will be overall.
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Don't worry, I am sure they will have "charms" or items that + effectiveness for x type of ruin
and you'll just farm those
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You won't farm runes. But I'm sure you'll farm something else. There's always something to farm.
I like the changes, although it's a bit more like in D2, since you can't put any skill in the keybinded slots, it means there will be more "ideal" builds everyone will try to get, just like in D2, which sucks.
It's still gonna be great though.
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Sorry for not being 100% up to date but, runes will no longer be dropping ingame? =/
Kinda sucks imo, since D2/3 is about farming and making your character better bit by bit... The less farming and chasing the perfect items, the less fun you have playing a game like D2/3.
The comparison to WoW isn't THAT far off, since WoW became boring as hell when every single char of X class had the same damn items, and identical builds. At lvl 60 there was none of those guaranteed drops for set item gloves/chest/head/feet etc, and weapons were REALLY scarce. (I think my guild killed Chromaggus 30-40 times before the crossbow dropped.)
Frustrating as fuck yeah, but so damn awesome when you finally get the item only 2-3 (or none) other people on the server have. Also keeps you motivated to actually do instances and chase the items. When i stopped playing WOW back in 2010, you could get a fully equipped char with really good items in a couple of weeks (if boosted ofcourse).
I don't mind things being more casual, but I really hope Blizzard doesn't let D3 turn into a game as boring and unmotivating as WOW.
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Played through the 13 the same way as I did 12 (DH)... This patch is about twice as good as the game was before.
First, the rune system is really nice. People are whining over nothing. Sure it's easy to build anyway you want now but there's still gear that will determine what builds work well. Now though I can actually play what I want without being relient on lucky rune drops.
Ok on to why patch 13 is so amazing...
-The new skill UI is miles ahead of the old one, though I wish elective mode would maybe consolidate more skills into fewer tabs so it was easier to pick the one you want. Still picking skills based on where you want them bound is just way more streamlined than before.
-The new progression is way beyond what we had before. You have something to look forward to every level which is great. Plus the usable rewards come way more often. As a DH Hungering Arrow/Impale are good enough to clear the beta with no sweat, so in 12 there wasn't much to look forward to after level 2. Now you get runes along the way that really help to have something to look forward to even if you aren't going to switch your skills out. On top of that you now get skill slots unlocked faster which makes the game way more engaging. In 12 you'd be pretty much strongly encouraged into a certain build. 1-5 you needed 1 resource generator/0 resource spell and 6-12 you'd have the same + one utility spell. Now the unlocks are 1,2,4,6,12 which means pretty early on you have slots enough to use interesting spells.
So for comparison in 12 my DH did: Hungering Arrow, Impale -> Elemental Arrow, Dodge which made combat super dull because it was just spam impale/elemental arrow until 0 hatred, then hungering arrow.
In 13 my DH by level 6 had: Hungering Arrow, Impale, Bola Shot (which was unusable in any build in 12), Rapid Fire This made combat awesome. I could pull off bola shots on packs of monsters, impale big guys, and use hungering arrow to finish guys off. Likewise I could have done a few other options like used evasive fire, caltrop (not really needed this early on though), or strafe instead.
So overall the new progression, especially for DH I suppose, kicks the crap out of the old progression.
(Note for the following: I played beta 2.5 times through in 12 while I don't have any hard proof stuff has changed 13's world felt pretty different including what spawned, how it spawned, and how much of it. It's possible I just had bad RNG luck, but I don't think so)
-Difficulty. 13 is not hard, just like 12. In some ways it's easier (more skill access) and some ways it's actually harder (a bit more HP, seemingly more elites). But overall it feels way better. In 12 there was no danger and there was no illusion of danger. This made the game feel more like a chore than anything (Gotta get through normal before the game is fun!). In 13 there is no danger, but the game does a much better job of creating an illusion of danager. The game seems to spawn more of the 2ndary monster types like the projectile skeleton summoners, the archer skeletons, quill beasts, and scavengers. Likewise the spawning seems to be better with more monsters overall (*My level seems to indicate this. On a full clear my DH just made level 10, on this play through my DH hit level 11 + 25% to 12) and more elites (I had about 7-8 elite packs in this run vs 2-3 in my previous). There seems to be more small events and more times when monsters spawn around you (again not a big deal, but makes the zombies FEEL more dangerous). Overall this drastically changes how I felt about the playthrough.
-World. My world this time felt much bigger/more open than before and in 12 the 3 times I went through areas they felt to have the same layout pretty much. This time I could see more areas that felt distinct in layout.
So overall this patch is A+ compared to before.
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that. Yeah but in D3 hypothetically you'll have stuff like Inferno being hard as shit to get through. On top of that you'll still need multiple sets of gear if you want to try out different builds.
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On February 20 2012 00:58 Kurr wrote: For me, Diablo 3 was a casual game as soon as they announced infinite respecs/no skill trees/no stat allocation/less diverse stats on weapons (IMO).
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
I don't really mind these changes because, for me, they don't really affect what the experience will be overall.
That pretty much sums how I feel as there is really no consequence for your decisions at all. The no stat allocations is just really dumb IMO. Will probably buy the game, but not hyped as they keep changing systems and dumbing everything down.
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Since runes are such an important part of your character and his/her strengths with the build, I always found it stupid you would have to farm on end to try some diversity and experimentation.
This way, you will get to try the different features and uniqueness each rune offers without having to farm fo eternity which is really positive.
I don't understand the people who say it's becoming casual. The very top top items will still only drop in inferno mode, and they will still be rare. That perfect Windforce or Tyrael's Might will still take WEEKS to farm, this update just allows the average player to experience more of the game.
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On February 20 2012 02:39 iLikeRain wrote: Since runes are such an important part of your character and his/her strengths with the build, I always found it stupid you would have to farm on end to try some diversity and experimentation.
This way, you will get to try the different features and uniqueness each rune offers without having to farm fo eternity which is really positive.
I don't understand the people who say it's becoming casual. The very top top items will still only drop in inferno mode, and they will still be rare. That perfect Windforce or Tyrael's Might will still take WEEKS to farm, this update just allows the average player to experience more of the game.
Very untrue. Just look at how extremely similar every crafted item is when using a formula (there was a screenshot of the "top crossbows in beta" somewhere in the forum and they were all pretty much the same with small stat differences.). Blizzard has stated they want every method (rares, crafting and uniques) to give great items but mostly rares/crafted be the best. As such, everyone will be using rares with slightly different stats but overall pretty much the same once a cookie cutter build gets chosen.
Also, it took pretty much months/years for a perfect Tyrael's Might and even then, that was just finding a duped one being traded.
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Have to side with the qq'ers here. I mean what are we really supposed to farm... gold, gear directly?
They keep trying to ruin this game with each patch it seems. This patch added some nice things, leveling to 12 was pretty smooth. But honestly, my faith in blizzard went from low to very low
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On February 20 2012 02:56 Pufftrees wrote:Have to side with the qq'ers here. I mean what are we really supposed to farm... gold, gear directly? They keep trying to ruin this game with each patch it seems. This patch added some nice things, leveling to 12 was pretty smooth. But honestly, my faith in blizzard went from low to very low u can still farm gems :D
honestly I'm not worried, they added like twice as many equipment slots as D2 had, and its not like d2 ever had this runestone thing. Think of it as just a bigger skill tree.. for each skill you get to modify it a bit
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Leveled up another char and I guess I don't mind it too much, its something giving a direct reason to level. Guess just have to see as we get to launch whats really going on.
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I'm wondering how many of the people that cry out "the new patch is awful" actually HAVE a beta key and played through the available content! Cause I'm having the sensation that most of them have no clue whatsoever what the actual game feels like. There was a great post earlier, by the user Logo, explaining why this patch is actually great, and I have to agree with most of the points he made:
- the world feels much more alive than ever, there seems to be a threat looming around in every corner, and, although the difficulty isn't increased per se, the user will feel a much greater challenge due to the increased number of bosses and normal enemies. -the skill system is better than ever: you can actually feel your character getting better with each level, because there's either a new skill that can be used on either the mouse/1-4, or a rune that can improve an existing skill. The variety of skills a character can use is therefore increased, making the game feel much more interactive. - what most of the qq'ers have no idea about is the fact that Blizz stated that game can and will be soloable up to Inferno and up to level 60. This means that everyone will eventually have access to all the skill/rune combination. Overall, the system will be much more flexible than what D2 had, where you had to play till your fingers dropped to get to level 95+. -Someone asked "what are we supposed to farm?". This made me lol, just because I see that people get this silly idea that they will need to farm their asses out in order to enjoy the game to the fullest. Relax, guys! Since you'll be able to max out your level solo, you'll have all the time in the world to farm for whatever legendary or set item you most desire. The reason why they removed the idea of droppable runes is exactly the wish for you all to be able to personalize your skills to max, in order to focus all your "farming" on whatever else yo may want to do.
Overall, the patch feels great, and I'm looking forward to an awesome full game. Keep up the good work, Blizz!
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