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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/4475014/Skill_and_Rune_Changes-2_18_2012#blog
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3123246179#13
General All characters have been wiped. Please note that this wipe will also affect gold, achievements, items, followers, and artisans. Intelligence now grants 0.1 per point to resistances, and will no longer award any bonus to healing from health globes When dual-wielding, certain skills will now always use your main-hand weapon to determine damageFor example, Cyclone Strike will use your main-hand weapon damage even if your off-hand weapon is set to swing next An option to permanently enable Advanced Tooltips has been added to the Gameplay Options Auction House The gold auction house is once again available for testing The listing fee for all auctions has been removed The transaction fee for auctions in the currency-based auction house has been increased to 1.25 Beta Bucks The minimum listing price for an item in the currency-based auction house has been increased to 1.50 Beta Bucks Players may now only have 10 active auctions per auction house Tooltips have been added which will allow players to compare items on the auction house to the items they're currently wearing Battle.net Public chat is now available to test Cross-game support has been added! You can now chat with Real ID friends playing the World of Warcraft PTR or StarCraft II PTR, as well as view their in-game status and current broadcasts. Skills The levels at which both active and passive skills unlock have been adjusted for all classes Skill runes are now available for testing The first skill rune will unlock for all characters at level 6, and players can unlock additional runes as they level up In total, players will be able to gain access to 5 skill runes for each skill by level 60 Character skills have been broken down into categories, and each category has been assigned to a specific mouse button or action bar slot in the skill UI The following categories will be shared by all classes: Primary Attack "Primary Attack" applies to skills that typically generate resources and can be used frequently By default, Primary Attack is assigned to the first mouse button Secondary Attack "Secondary Attack" applies to more powerful skills that are commonly limited by a cooldown or resource cost By default, Secondary Attack is assigned to the second mouse button Defensive "Defensive" applies to skills which can be used to escape or control the flow of combat By default, Defensive is assigned to the first action bar quick slot Each class will also have three additional categories which are unique. By default, these categories will be assigned to the second, third, and fourth quick slots in the main action bar. Elective Mode: For players who wish to explore character builds which cannot be accomplished with the provided categories, an “Elective Mode” has been provided. When activated, Elective Mode will allow you to place any skill in any skill category slot, as freely as you could before. To enable Elective Mode, simply check the corresponding box located in the Gameplay Options menu. The cooldown on swapping skills has been decreased from 30 seconds to 15 seconds Classes Barbarian Active Skills Bash Weapon damage increased from 145% to 150% Cleave Weapon damage increased from 115% to 120% Frenzy Weapon damage increased from 100% to 110% Ground Stomp Base skill no longer deals weapon damage Stun duration increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds Hammer of the Ancients Weapon damage increased from 180% to 200% Leap Attack Weapon damage increased from 100% to 125% Threatening Shout Damage reduction decreased from 50% to 25% Passive Skills Weapons Master Swords/Daggers: Damage bonus increased from 10% to 15% Maces/Axes: Chance to critically hit increased from 5% to 10% Polearms/Spears: No change Mighty Weapons: Fury generated per hit increased from 1 to 3 Demon Hunter Active Skills Bola Shot Weapon damage to main target increased from 100% to 130% Weapon damage to other targets in range increased from 75% to 110% Caltrops Movement speed reduction decreased from 65% to 60% Chakram Weapon damage increased from 135% to 150% Entangling Shot Hatred generation decreased from 4 to 3 Evasive Fire Weapon damage increased from 115% to 125% Pathing has been improved when performing a backflip Hungering Arrow Weapon damage increased from 85% to 115% Impale Weapon damage decreased from 275% to 250% Vault Pathing has been improved Passive Skills Steady Aim Damage bonus when no enemies are within 10 yards increased from 10% to 20% Vengeance Maximum Hatred bonus decreased from 50 to 25 When healed by a health globe, Hatred gain increased from 10 to 20 and Discipline gain increased from 1 to 2 Monk Active Skills Breath of Heaven Spirit cost reduced from 50 to 25 Heal amount increased Now has a 15 second cooldown Dashing Strike Weapon damage decreased from 160% to 80% Pathing has been improved Exploding Palm Weapon damage from bleed effect decreased from 65% to 60% Lashing Tail Kick Weapon damage decreased from 225% to 200% Mantra of Evasion Chance to dodge bonus decreased from 25% to 15% Secondary bonus to dodge attacks, in effect for the first 3 seconds after activation, also decreased from 25% to 15% Passive Skills Guardian's Path When dual-wielding, chance to dodge bonus increased from 10% to 15% While using a two-handed weapon, Spirit regeneration bonus increased from 20% to 25% Resolve Enemy damage reduction decreased from 30% to 25% Witch Doctor General Witch Doctor mana has received a tuning pass Active Skills Corpse Spiders Weapon damage per swing decreased from 38% to 25% per spider Firebomb Weapon damage decreased from 155% to 100% Grasp of the Dead Movement speed reduction increased from 50% to 60% Haunt Duration of Haunt no longer scales per level Now deals 350% weapon damage over 15 seconds Hex Damage bonus to hexed enemy decreased from 20% to 12% Plague of Toads Weapon damage decreased from 150% to 130% per toad Summon Zombie Dogs Weapon damage per hit decreased from 15% to 9% per dog Passive Skills Spiritual Attunement Mana regeneration decreased from 2% to 1% of maximum Mana per second Wizard General Arcane Power regeneration has been lowered from 12.5 per second to 10 per second Active Skills Arcane Orb Weapon damage increased from 225% to 250% Diamond Skin Maximum absorption amount decreased Frost Nova No longer deals weapon damage Ray of Frost Weapon damage increased from 155% to 200% Movement speed reduction decreased from 40% to 30% Attack speed reduction decreased from 30% to 20% Duration of slow and attack speed reduction decreased from 5 seconds to 3 seconds Shock Pulse Weapon damage increased from 90% to 105% Wave of Force Weapon damage decreased from 250% to 220% Movement speed reduction increased from 50% to 60% Passive Skills Glass Cannon Damage bonus reduced from 20% to 15% Crafting The cost to level the Blacksmith has been reduced by 50% The gold and reagent cost of Blacksmithing recipes has received a tuning pass The following affixes now have a chance to appear twice when crafting an item: Min damage Max damage All Elemental damage types Followers Templar Skills Heal Heal amount increased Loyalty Healing per second increased Items General Passive Spirit regeneration granted by the Spirit Regeneration item affix has been increased Quivers will now grant +damage New item affixes have been added! Chance on hit to: Fear Stun Freeze Immobilize Chill Blind Slow Knockback Vendors Vendors will now change their inventories more often throughout the game, and will have access to wider variety of item affixes The chance for a white item to appear in a vendor's stock has been reduced from 30% to 10% The vendor value of all items has been reduced Monsters The health and damage of all monster in the game have been adjusted The amount of gold dropped by monsters has been increased Bug Fixes For a full list of documented game and service bugs, please review the Known Issues sticky located in the Beta Bug Report forum. Achievements should now awarded properly once their objectives are met Accounts that were locked by error messages (such as ERROR_395002) should now be unlocked Players should now be able to buy gold using their Beta Bucks
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IIRC Bashiok stated that it's unlikely that runes will be in beta tests.
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On February 17 2012 00:20 Hrwa wrote: IIRC Bashiok stated that it's unlikely that runes will be in beta tests. yes. they wont drop, but the changes also seem to effect skills and some reworks on the classes themselves. It also could be a new UI tab etc.
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On February 17 2012 00:32 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 00:20 Hrwa wrote: IIRC Bashiok stated that it's unlikely that runes will be in beta tests. yes. they wont drop, but the changes also seem to effect skills and some reworks on the classes themselves. It also could be a new UI tab etc.
Why do you name topic with your speculation...... seriously
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Wow - this is huge ne... oh they didn't actually say they were working runes into this patch and you just hope they will be out anyway...
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United States22154 Posts
Renamed to be less misleading.
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I'm really hoping we'll get to try out runes in Beta. It's a large part of character customization and I feel it's worthwhile for Blizzard to throw it out there to get some community feedback.
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There is going to be an article by Jay Wilson with regards to runes/skills, despite what actually occurs in the beta patch.
>>I'm really hoping we'll get to try out runes in Beta. It's a large part of character customization and I feel it's worthwhile for Blizzard to throw it out there to get some community feedback.<<
Runes don't drop until later on in act2. No need to overwhelm the new player by having runes drop when you're lvl 3..
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On February 17 2012 03:43 Gescom wrote: There is going to be an article by Jay Wilson with regards to runes/skills, despite what actually occurs in the beta patch.
>>I'm really hoping we'll get to try out runes in Beta. It's a large part of character customization and I feel it's worthwhile for Blizzard to throw it out there to get some community feedback.<<
Runes don't drop until later on in act2. No need to overwhelm the new player by having runes drop when you're lvl 3..
Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to that article.
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On February 17 2012 03:43 Gescom wrote: There is going to be an article by Jay Wilson with regards to runes/skills, despite what actually occurs in the beta patch.
>>I'm really hoping we'll get to try out runes in Beta. It's a large part of character customization and I feel it's worthwhile for Blizzard to throw it out there to get some community feedback.<<
Runes don't drop until later on in act2. No need to overwhelm the new player by having runes drop when you're lvl 3..
Still I think they should add it in the beta, make it drop in the cathedral in the beta, remove it for release; ezpz.
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On February 17 2012 07:30 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 03:43 Gescom wrote: There is going to be an article by Jay Wilson with regards to runes/skills, despite what actually occurs in the beta patch.
>>I'm really hoping we'll get to try out runes in Beta. It's a large part of character customization and I feel it's worthwhile for Blizzard to throw it out there to get some community feedback.<<
Runes don't drop until later on in act2. No need to overwhelm the new player by having runes drop when you're lvl 3.. Still I think they should add it in the beta, make it drop in the cathedral in the beta, remove it for release; ezpz.
except they might as well give you endgame armor too, for how relevant those runes would be in relation to the release game.
giving you things that dont drop til act2 in the first couple parts of act1 is not what a beta is about. its not so you can try everything in the game, its for BLIZZARDs benefit.. not the players. (well indirectly its the players that benefit from a more solid game..)
my point is, dropping runes in the current beta content would serve no purpose at all for blizzard's improvement of the game, but it would have the negative impact of requiring them to modify the existing game code for a special condition that would have to be removed at launch and verified that nothing breaks...
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It's been confirmed the rune changes will be going live with patch 13. So it wasn't a misleading title.
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On February 17 2012 08:42 dacthehork wrote: It's been confirmed the rune changes will be going live with patch 13. So wasn't a misleading title.
Can you point to where it was stated by a blue that rune changes will be going live with the patch.
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On February 17 2012 08:46 Nilrem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:42 dacthehork wrote: It's been confirmed the rune changes will be going live with patch 13. So wasn't a misleading title. Can you point to where it was stated by a blue that rune changes will be going live with the patch.
1. It involved a full character wipe according to the devs. 2. Multiple instances saying rune changes will be coming out next patch. 3. tweets directly from bashiok confirmed this.
Doomwolf @Bashiok Rune stuff today or tomorrow? Bashiok @EmperorDoomwolf Whenever the patch goes live.
Patch 13 - Rune Changes - was an accurate title.
No problem.
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very nice, just received my betakey today =)
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Hopefully this really is final.
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On February 17 2012 08:48 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:46 Nilrem wrote:On February 17 2012 08:42 dacthehork wrote: It's been confirmed the rune changes will be going live with patch 13. So wasn't a misleading title. Can you point to where it was stated by a blue that rune changes will be going live with the patch. 1. It involved a full character wipe according to the devs. 2. Multiple instances saying rune changes will be coming out next patch. 3. tweets directly from bashiok confirmed this. Show nested quote +Doomwolf @Bashiok Rune stuff today or tomorrow? Bashiok @EmperorDoomwolf Whenever the patch goes live. Patch 13 - Rune Changes - was an accurate title. No problem. I'm confused because just last week Bashiok said:
Q: will we be seeing any runestones or gems in beta? A: Extremely unlikely. The point of the beta is to test the service, patcher, launcher, and hardware compatibility.
Q: As a beta member, is there any other content we will be testing, runes/jeweler etc? A: Negatory. There will be some skill and class changes, items, but you'll be level 13 until the game releases.
Seems to me that just info about runes will be released with patch 13, but time will tell.
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On February 17 2012 09:39 Moliere wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:48 dacthehork wrote:On February 17 2012 08:46 Nilrem wrote:On February 17 2012 08:42 dacthehork wrote: It's been confirmed the rune changes will be going live with patch 13. So wasn't a misleading title. Can you point to where it was stated by a blue that rune changes will be going live with the patch. 1. It involved a full character wipe according to the devs. 2. Multiple instances saying rune changes will be coming out next patch. 3. tweets directly from bashiok confirmed this. Doomwolf @Bashiok Rune stuff today or tomorrow? Bashiok @EmperorDoomwolf Whenever the patch goes live. Patch 13 - Rune Changes - was an accurate title. No problem. I'm confused because just last week Bashiok said: Q: will we be seeing any runestones or gems in beta? A: Extremely unlikely. The point of the beta is to test the service, patcher, launcher, and hardware compatibility.
Q: As a beta member, is there any other content we will be testing, runes/jeweler etc? A: Negatory. There will be some skill and class changes, items, but you'll be level 13 until the game releases. Seems to me that just info about runes will be released with patch 13, but time will tell.
Yes, the new rune system will be unveiled, you cant mess with them in beta though but there will be some changes to classes too.
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Bashiokji on patch 13 @Grug16 We're trying ***FOR TODAY***... maybe.
I added the for today since it was a response to a question if patch 13 would come out friday.
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I just rented out my last D3 beta key today too
Oh well, I'll just rent one for a few hours on JSP
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Hooomg! And I'm gonna be out of town for the whole weekend... What mockery is this?!
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delayed to saturday or sunday.
typical
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On February 18 2012 10:09 dacthehork wrote: delayed to saturday or sunday.
typical
Yup, hopefully it actually comes out this weekend though.....
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Server just went down.. patch inc?
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I really really doubt Blizzard will miss the chance to monetize runes in one shape or another...
This is only guessing but I always had a guess the reason why runes were never finished until now was because they were waiting for a locked version of the RMAH. Meanwhile they test ideas and would chose one final when the rest of the game was set in stone.
We'll see tommorow but if runes are not physical and not allowed to be traded I would be REALLY surprised.
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rune system image was datamined, see opening post. My theory, it's a horardric cube system. You mix different runes? to get different skill effects. Looks really weird.
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does the image in the first post look like the shittiest UI in the history of UI's? maybe I just dont know how to read it
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On February 19 2012 10:12 Assault_1 wrote: does the image in the first post look like the shittiest UI in the history of UI's? maybe I just dont know how to read it
Its a sheet of icons, not how it would appear to you - source someone D3 forums.
also new info, confirming runes unlock with level.
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I was pretty excited with runes being a drop and being so hard to get them high level... will be fun to try them out in the beta though.
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Interesting, more answers in few hours.
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On February 19 2012 10:52 rezoacken wrote: Interesting, more answers in few hours.
BAH, this sucks, I will be sleeping before the patch opens up for us.
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Wow D3 is making huge changes like this still? I've see many other changes, and I wouldn't call them major (even if others would). This however, is a very huge change, and certainly makes Diablo 3 seems very far away.
I wonder how many people are going to flock to Path of Exile if it goes to open beta before Diablo 3 launches.
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On February 19 2012 11:06 Xapti wrote: Wow D3 is making huge changes like this still? I've see many other changes, and I wouldn't call them major (even if others would). This however, is a very huge change, and certainly makes Diablo 3 seems very far away.
I wonder how many people are going to flock to Path of Exile if it goes to open beta before Diablo 3 launches.
I agree. They really need to just release this thing. The latest should be in April.....
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Jay wilson posted it: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/35227-jay-wilson-skill-and-rune-changes/
Finished reading it.
I'm okay with the changes. It doesn't look like it needs a big amount of work: -Skill system is just categorizing skills and making the UI more user friendly so no big deal. -Rune system now that they scrapped rune level, they have less things to balance around so I'm quite confident it is not a huge deal anymore.
At first reading the skill system I was pulling my hair because it is SOOOOOOOOOO noob friendly but when he mentioned there is an option to deactivate it I'm okay with that.
Quite confident for a Q2 release.
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i dont even know what the runes do unless they play a role like D2 did
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Sorry, might be being blind here, but how do you know that the hall of the dead is in?
I have not seen it referenced since Bashiok said that it was on their to do list a week or so ago....
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still dunno what the runes do in D3 after reading 3 times in that blog =\,did they remake the new rune system and not work like in D2?
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On February 19 2012 12:08 Rampoon wrote: Sorry, might be being blind here, but how do you know that the hall of the dead is in?
I have not seen it referenced since Bashiok said that it was on their to do list a week or so ago....
It's a place in battlenet where you can show off your dead Hardcore mode characters.
On the new rune system i have a problem with everyone having the highest rank of all the runes when they hit 60. So when you are done with Hell mode you have only regular items to hunt for. This and the fact that now when you have all the runes at all times when you are lvl 60, basically this means that instead they could just have given each class say 80 skills to pick from, instead of having these modifiers, which everyone at level 60 will now have as standard.
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On February 19 2012 12:14 justiceknight wrote: still dunno what the runes do in D3 after reading 3 times in that blog =\,did they remake the new rune system and not work like in D2?
It's 0% comparable to D2.
In D3 now here what runes are:
You chose a skill. For every skill you have chosen you now have a choice of rune to make the skill slightly different.
Example: I pick Electrocute, in the skill interface I have now a new window where I can pick a rune for this Electrocute skill. I for example can chose the Rune A that will make Electrocute no longer jump but make 50% more damage.
Runes are closer to what glyphs are in WoW. You don't drop runes, you unlock runes as you level up (for a specific spell).
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On February 19 2012 12:31 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 12:14 justiceknight wrote: still dunno what the runes do in D3 after reading 3 times in that blog =\,did they remake the new rune system and not work like in D2? It's 0% comparable to D2. In D3 now here what runes are: You chose a skill. For every skill you have chosen you now have a choice of rune to make the skill slightly different. Example: I pick Electrocute, in the skill interface I have now a new window where I can pick a rune for this Electrocute skill. I for example can chose the Rune A that will make Electrocute no longer jump but make 50% more damage. Runes are closer to what glyphs are in WoW. You don't drop runes, you unlock runes as you level up (for a specific spell).
Its so silly, they remove the skill trees and leveling up abilities....then they change runes to completely mimic that system...wut
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On February 19 2012 12:32 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 12:31 rezoacken wrote:On February 19 2012 12:14 justiceknight wrote: still dunno what the runes do in D3 after reading 3 times in that blog =\,did they remake the new rune system and not work like in D2? It's 0% comparable to D2. In D3 now here what runes are: You chose a skill. For every skill you have chosen you now have a choice of rune to make the skill slightly different. Example: I pick Electrocute, in the skill interface I have now a new window where I can pick a rune for this Electrocute skill. I for example can chose the Rune A that will make Electrocute no longer jump but make 50% more damage. Runes are closer to what glyphs are in WoW. You don't drop runes, you unlock runes as you level up (for a specific spell). Its so silly, they remove the skill trees and leveling up abilities....then they change runes to completely mimic that system...wut
Well you still can change runes and skills anytime you want...
If you want a skill tree comparison this is the same as having a skill tree with unlimited free respec.
Though this is a bit cleaner to achieve that that just have skills and modificator than have say a huge tree with 80 skills. But yeah in the end it's similar.
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I finished download patch, if some people are interested by the stream or a particular class I will provide one later.
Many people will do it also probably anyway.
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On February 19 2012 12:39 rezoacken wrote: I finished download patch, if some people are interested by the stream or a particular class I will provide one later.
Many people will do it also probably anyway.
Can't log in yet? Ye i was hoping to find a stream.
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On February 19 2012 12:44 Nausea wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 12:39 rezoacken wrote: I finished download patch, if some people are interested by the stream or a particular class I will provide one later.
Many people will do it also probably anyway. Can't log in yet? Ye i was hoping to find a stream.
Nope says Bnet is in maintenance
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Wow they slammed the witch doctor with nerfs to everything except a +10% snare on zombie arm AOE
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They delayed the maintenance to 11pmPST not sure I'll stream we'll see.
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Nooooooo, they nerfed zombie dogs! And Hex!
But the overall changes are good. Now I can easily make the kind of character I want to make, instead of having to hunt for specific items.
Just release the game already! It's good enough!
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dammit extended maint, I wanted to play tonight )=
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Not sure how I feel about built-in runes... more convenient, but one less set of items for people to work toward...
Perhaps there will be more beta invites to try out these new changes, yes? T_T
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omg delayed again D: goodnight
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So the chat looks exactly like SC2 one. I can't believe Blizzard can't design a better chat system.
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Just give a release date.
At this point I have stopped reading the "new and exciting changes to Diablo 3". I don't care what system you choose Jay. Just release the game.
The day of discussing systems and mechanics are long gone.
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On February 19 2012 18:35 Odoakar wrote: So the chat looks exactly like SC2 one. I can't believe Blizzard can't design a better chat system.
Yeah I dont't get it, too >.>
Anyway, the new rune system is nice :>
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OMG every patch makes the game even worse. Whats next? Items integrated into the UI and don't drop anymore? Diablo 3 has ABSOLUTLY NO CHAR-INDIVIDUALIZATION!
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I can't help but feel that every level 60 character will be built the exact same way. There will be class guides that pop up ala Elitist Jerks, and everyone will copy because everyone gets every rune.
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The only difference between patch 13 and 12 is what when someone reads a build on elitist jerks they won't have to grind for runes. I fail to see how this changes the concept of character depth.
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On February 19 2012 21:21 rehagel wrote: OMG every patch makes the game even worse. Whats next? Items integrated into the UI and don't drop anymore? Diablo 3 has ABSOLUTLY NO CHAR-INDIVIDUALIZATION!
Actually it allows for quicker character individualization and the same amount of it.
I think it's a good idea to allow for maximum skill customization without the requirement of insane grinding and luck to get the actualy runes that finally match the skill set up you want.
This way I can play with the skillset I want and farming is now about the equipment items only. Also as Jay Wilson mentioned, this removes the rather annoying rune swapping that would occur later on whenever you want to try out something else.
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On February 19 2012 21:39 Psyqo wrote: I can't help but feel that every level 60 character will be built the exact same way. There will be class guides that pop up ala Elitist Jerks, and everyone will copy because everyone gets every rune.
Sooo...where is the difference to D2?
I think patch 13 is awesome. This means that you only have to reach lvl 60 to have access to every rune in its most powerful form (though not as powerful as before in the highest lvl as I understood it) and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes you want. Despite that you can still sink in hundrets of hours to find gear so nothing lost for the more hardcore players.
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Blizzard, why do you hate chat channels?
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and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes
That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW!
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Seems OK but what if the rune that unlocks at level 60 is crucial to your build? You have to run through Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulty using a build you don't like?
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On February 19 2012 23:22 rehagel wrote:That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW!
The point of the game is to have fun while farming etc.
What this particular change has to do with WoW I don't know. Apparently WoW is the most casual game on earth or something.
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On February 19 2012 23:33 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 23:22 rehagel wrote:and don't have to farm hundrets of hours to get the runes That was the point to play this game! The game looks more and more like casualbullshit. All these changes in the last 2 month are going in the wrong direction! The game was really easy and casual before but it gets to a point where it will be like WoW! The point of the game is to have fun while farming etc. What this particular change has to do with WoW I don't know. Apparently WoW is the most casual game on earth or something.
Spot on, I don't see it to be fun to farm for runes, which have probably a really low chance of dropping in general, and then even getting the specific rune you want. And you need to farm for multiple levels. Whereas runes are really crucial to the gameplay, if you only have a chance to make use of them, it would suck.
There's probably still plenty to farm.
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On February 19 2012 23:26 Yacobs wrote: Seems OK but what if the rune that unlocks at level 60 is crucial to your build? You have to run through Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulty using a build you don't like? You only have to run the game once with each class.
Unless you're hardcore.
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For me, Diablo 3 was a casual game as soon as they announced infinite respecs/no skill trees/no stat allocation/less diverse stats on weapons (IMO).
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
I don't really mind these changes because, for me, they don't really affect what the experience will be overall.
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Don't worry, I am sure they will have "charms" or items that + effectiveness for x type of ruin
and you'll just farm those
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You won't farm runes. But I'm sure you'll farm something else. There's always something to farm.
I like the changes, although it's a bit more like in D2, since you can't put any skill in the keybinded slots, it means there will be more "ideal" builds everyone will try to get, just like in D2, which sucks.
It's still gonna be great though.
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Sorry for not being 100% up to date but, runes will no longer be dropping ingame? =/
Kinda sucks imo, since D2/3 is about farming and making your character better bit by bit... The less farming and chasing the perfect items, the less fun you have playing a game like D2/3.
The comparison to WoW isn't THAT far off, since WoW became boring as hell when every single char of X class had the same damn items, and identical builds. At lvl 60 there was none of those guaranteed drops for set item gloves/chest/head/feet etc, and weapons were REALLY scarce. (I think my guild killed Chromaggus 30-40 times before the crossbow dropped.)
Frustrating as fuck yeah, but so damn awesome when you finally get the item only 2-3 (or none) other people on the server have. Also keeps you motivated to actually do instances and chase the items. When i stopped playing WOW back in 2010, you could get a fully equipped char with really good items in a couple of weeks (if boosted ofcourse).
I don't mind things being more casual, but I really hope Blizzard doesn't let D3 turn into a game as boring and unmotivating as WOW.
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Played through the 13 the same way as I did 12 (DH)... This patch is about twice as good as the game was before.
First, the rune system is really nice. People are whining over nothing. Sure it's easy to build anyway you want now but there's still gear that will determine what builds work well. Now though I can actually play what I want without being relient on lucky rune drops.
Ok on to why patch 13 is so amazing...
-The new skill UI is miles ahead of the old one, though I wish elective mode would maybe consolidate more skills into fewer tabs so it was easier to pick the one you want. Still picking skills based on where you want them bound is just way more streamlined than before.
-The new progression is way beyond what we had before. You have something to look forward to every level which is great. Plus the usable rewards come way more often. As a DH Hungering Arrow/Impale are good enough to clear the beta with no sweat, so in 12 there wasn't much to look forward to after level 2. Now you get runes along the way that really help to have something to look forward to even if you aren't going to switch your skills out. On top of that you now get skill slots unlocked faster which makes the game way more engaging. In 12 you'd be pretty much strongly encouraged into a certain build. 1-5 you needed 1 resource generator/0 resource spell and 6-12 you'd have the same + one utility spell. Now the unlocks are 1,2,4,6,12 which means pretty early on you have slots enough to use interesting spells.
So for comparison in 12 my DH did: Hungering Arrow, Impale -> Elemental Arrow, Dodge which made combat super dull because it was just spam impale/elemental arrow until 0 hatred, then hungering arrow.
In 13 my DH by level 6 had: Hungering Arrow, Impale, Bola Shot (which was unusable in any build in 12), Rapid Fire This made combat awesome. I could pull off bola shots on packs of monsters, impale big guys, and use hungering arrow to finish guys off. Likewise I could have done a few other options like used evasive fire, caltrop (not really needed this early on though), or strafe instead.
So overall the new progression, especially for DH I suppose, kicks the crap out of the old progression.
(Note for the following: I played beta 2.5 times through in 12 while I don't have any hard proof stuff has changed 13's world felt pretty different including what spawned, how it spawned, and how much of it. It's possible I just had bad RNG luck, but I don't think so)
-Difficulty. 13 is not hard, just like 12. In some ways it's easier (more skill access) and some ways it's actually harder (a bit more HP, seemingly more elites). But overall it feels way better. In 12 there was no danger and there was no illusion of danger. This made the game feel more like a chore than anything (Gotta get through normal before the game is fun!). In 13 there is no danger, but the game does a much better job of creating an illusion of danager. The game seems to spawn more of the 2ndary monster types like the projectile skeleton summoners, the archer skeletons, quill beasts, and scavengers. Likewise the spawning seems to be better with more monsters overall (*My level seems to indicate this. On a full clear my DH just made level 10, on this play through my DH hit level 11 + 25% to 12) and more elites (I had about 7-8 elite packs in this run vs 2-3 in my previous). There seems to be more small events and more times when monsters spawn around you (again not a big deal, but makes the zombies FEEL more dangerous). Overall this drastically changes how I felt about the playthrough.
-World. My world this time felt much bigger/more open than before and in 12 the 3 times I went through areas they felt to have the same layout pretty much. This time I could see more areas that felt distinct in layout.
So overall this patch is A+ compared to before.
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that. Yeah but in D3 hypothetically you'll have stuff like Inferno being hard as shit to get through. On top of that you'll still need multiple sets of gear if you want to try out different builds.
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On February 20 2012 00:58 Kurr wrote: For me, Diablo 3 was a casual game as soon as they announced infinite respecs/no skill trees/no stat allocation/less diverse stats on weapons (IMO).
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
I don't really mind these changes because, for me, they don't really affect what the experience will be overall.
That pretty much sums how I feel as there is really no consequence for your decisions at all. The no stat allocations is just really dumb IMO. Will probably buy the game, but not hyped as they keep changing systems and dumbing everything down.
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Since runes are such an important part of your character and his/her strengths with the build, I always found it stupid you would have to farm on end to try some diversity and experimentation.
This way, you will get to try the different features and uniqueness each rune offers without having to farm fo eternity which is really positive.
I don't understand the people who say it's becoming casual. The very top top items will still only drop in inferno mode, and they will still be rare. That perfect Windforce or Tyrael's Might will still take WEEKS to farm, this update just allows the average player to experience more of the game.
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On February 20 2012 02:39 iLikeRain wrote: Since runes are such an important part of your character and his/her strengths with the build, I always found it stupid you would have to farm on end to try some diversity and experimentation.
This way, you will get to try the different features and uniqueness each rune offers without having to farm fo eternity which is really positive.
I don't understand the people who say it's becoming casual. The very top top items will still only drop in inferno mode, and they will still be rare. That perfect Windforce or Tyrael's Might will still take WEEKS to farm, this update just allows the average player to experience more of the game.
Very untrue. Just look at how extremely similar every crafted item is when using a formula (there was a screenshot of the "top crossbows in beta" somewhere in the forum and they were all pretty much the same with small stat differences.). Blizzard has stated they want every method (rares, crafting and uniques) to give great items but mostly rares/crafted be the best. As such, everyone will be using rares with slightly different stats but overall pretty much the same once a cookie cutter build gets chosen.
Also, it took pretty much months/years for a perfect Tyrael's Might and even then, that was just finding a duped one being traded.
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Have to side with the qq'ers here. I mean what are we really supposed to farm... gold, gear directly?
They keep trying to ruin this game with each patch it seems. This patch added some nice things, leveling to 12 was pretty smooth. But honestly, my faith in blizzard went from low to very low
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On February 20 2012 02:56 Pufftrees wrote:Have to side with the qq'ers here. I mean what are we really supposed to farm... gold, gear directly? They keep trying to ruin this game with each patch it seems. This patch added some nice things, leveling to 12 was pretty smooth. But honestly, my faith in blizzard went from low to very low u can still farm gems :D
honestly I'm not worried, they added like twice as many equipment slots as D2 had, and its not like d2 ever had this runestone thing. Think of it as just a bigger skill tree.. for each skill you get to modify it a bit
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Leveled up another char and I guess I don't mind it too much, its something giving a direct reason to level. Guess just have to see as we get to launch whats really going on.
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I'm wondering how many of the people that cry out "the new patch is awful" actually HAVE a beta key and played through the available content! Cause I'm having the sensation that most of them have no clue whatsoever what the actual game feels like. There was a great post earlier, by the user Logo, explaining why this patch is actually great, and I have to agree with most of the points he made:
- the world feels much more alive than ever, there seems to be a threat looming around in every corner, and, although the difficulty isn't increased per se, the user will feel a much greater challenge due to the increased number of bosses and normal enemies. -the skill system is better than ever: you can actually feel your character getting better with each level, because there's either a new skill that can be used on either the mouse/1-4, or a rune that can improve an existing skill. The variety of skills a character can use is therefore increased, making the game feel much more interactive. - what most of the qq'ers have no idea about is the fact that Blizz stated that game can and will be soloable up to Inferno and up to level 60. This means that everyone will eventually have access to all the skill/rune combination. Overall, the system will be much more flexible than what D2 had, where you had to play till your fingers dropped to get to level 95+. -Someone asked "what are we supposed to farm?". This made me lol, just because I see that people get this silly idea that they will need to farm their asses out in order to enjoy the game to the fullest. Relax, guys! Since you'll be able to max out your level solo, you'll have all the time in the world to farm for whatever legendary or set item you most desire. The reason why they removed the idea of droppable runes is exactly the wish for you all to be able to personalize your skills to max, in order to focus all your "farming" on whatever else yo may want to do.
Overall, the patch feels great, and I'm looking forward to an awesome full game. Keep up the good work, Blizz!
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On February 20 2012 02:39 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 00:58 Kurr wrote: For me, Diablo 3 was a casual game as soon as they announced infinite respecs/no skill trees/no stat allocation/less diverse stats on weapons (IMO).
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
I don't really mind these changes because, for me, they don't really affect what the experience will be overall. That pretty much sums how I feel as there is really no consequence for your decisions at all. The no stat allocations is just really dumb IMO. Will probably buy the game, but not hyped as they keep changing systems and dumbing everything down.
Yeah, I miss the good ol' times when I dumped everything in vitality. Why did Blizzard remove such an awesome feature.
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There are still people that complain about the stat allocation? ROFL! Like yeah, I really want the option to set my strength to whatever I need for my endgame armor, my dexterity to whatever I need for 75% block and my energy to... oh wait, nobody spends points on energy! )
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VdH, your argument is a straw man. The reason people are upset about stat allocation is because when a system doesn't work well you should FIX the system. Blizzard instead chose to simply remove it. If they were so concerned about retards playing the game then they could have easily made an "auto-allocation" option that is enabled by default.
Plus, sometimes it's fun to experiment with weird stat builds. Now there's basically no experimentation in the game at all.
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On February 20 2012 04:56 Yacobs wrote: VdH, your argument is a straw man. The reason people are upset about stat allocation is because when a system doesn't work well you should FIX the system. Blizzard instead chose to simply remove it. If they were so concerned about retards playing the game then they could have easily made an "auto-allocation" option that is enabled by default.
Plus, sometimes it's fun to experiment with weird stat builds. Now there's basically no experimentation in the game at all.
They did fix it...
Sometimes the only way to fix something is to remove it.
Having odd permanent choices makes little sense for a game that you play the main content 3 times over. It makes sense in a rogue-like, skryim, or other game where you arc through a story and your allocations affect your story (a narrative, or in a roguelike's case an emergent story).
In Diablo 3 you kill shit. Then kill some more shit. Then you do it 3x times in the same setting. If it takes you 2 tries to get an allocation right then you're going through the same setting 6-8 times (depending on if you bail before Inferno or not) with the same game play each time which is mind-numbingly boring just to get 1 decent character (Then you would do it again for each other type of build you want). If you can respec for free at max level then stats are meaningless anyways and just an annoying book keeping thing (respec because now your gear says this stat spec is optimal). For people who don't want to constantly drive characters through the same (easy) content, no stats is a huge improvement. For people who do, play hardcore.
Stats, as far as I am concerned, are a vestigial part of the game that came from D1's rogue-like roots (D1 was more rogue like than D2 which is more rogue like than D3).
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Just because you say the D2 stat system was not fixable doesn't make it the truth.
For people who do, play hardcore.
As expected, you completely miss the point. No one wants to play through the same content over and over again just for kicks. People want to build a character. Watching Blizzard build the character for you doesn't hit the mark. Is that really so hard to understand?
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Currently streaming should find it in the stream section on TL
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On February 20 2012 05:32 Yacobs wrote:Just because you say the D2 stat system was not fixable doesn't make it the truth. As expected, you completely miss the point. No one wants to play through the same content over and over again just for kicks. People want to build a character. Watching Blizzard build the character for you doesn't hit the mark. Is that really so hard to understand?
Yes, because it's just a stupid illusion anyways. You are lamenting the fact that you're not clicking 5 buttons every time you level up that are done purely for when you reach something like 60+ or 80+. From like 1-60 stats are just an annoyance that keeps you from using some drops that you can't really do anything about and have little, if any, bearing on how your character plays. Maybe in nightmare you'll be slightly weaker or slightly stronger depending on your stat distribution, but generally it's not an issue. The only decision in all that time is not what you want your stats to be, just a matter of priority of what to level. That plus a high chance to fuck it up if you don't read a guide or play multiple times.
Chances are you won't miss it once you actually play the game. Especially since the increased gear slots and skill/rune system means that there's a lot more variation in making optimal sets of gear. What's good for Rapid Fire is very unlikely to be what is good for Impale.
The gameplay of Diablo 2 & 3 and stats (doubly so permanent ones) were always at odds.
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They need to fire the person that made the new skill interface.
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On February 20 2012 05:32 Yacobs wrote:Just because you say the D2 stat system was not fixable doesn't make it the truth. As expected, you completely miss the point. No one wants to play through the same content over and over again just for kicks. People want to build a character. Watching Blizzard build the character for you doesn't hit the mark. Is that really so hard to understand? Hmm? Why are people so butthurt about allocating stat points? I just blindly placed them anywhere, I did most of my customization through gear, which is probably going to happen in D3 as well. Stat points in D1 and 2 weren't even interesting, I just wanted to continue killing stuff.
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[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE]On February 20 2012 04:09 VdH wrote: I'm wondering how many of the people that cry out "the new patch is awful" actually HAVE a beta key and played through the available content! Cause I'm having the sensation that most of them have no clue whatsoever what the actual game feels like. There was a great post earlier, by the user Logo, explaining why this patch is actually great, and I have to agree with most of the points he made:
- the world feels much more alive than ever, there seems to be a threat looming around in every corner, and, although the difficulty isn't increased per se, the user will feel a much greater challenge due to the increased number of bosses and normal enemies. -the skill system is better than ever: you can actually feel your character getting better with each level, because there's either a new skill that can be used on either the mouse/1-4, or a rune that can improve an existing skill. The variety of skills a character can use is therefore increased, making the game feel much more interactive. - what most of the qq'ers have no idea about is the fact that Blizz stated that game can and will be soloable up to Inferno and up to level 60. This means that everyone will eventually have access to all the skill/rune combination. Overall, the system will be much more flexible than what D2 had, where you had to play till your fingers dropped to get to level 95+. -Someone asked "what are we supposed to farm?". This made me lol, just because I see that people get this silly idea that they will need to farm their asses out in order to enjoy the game to the fullest. Relax, guys! Since you'll be able to max out your level solo, you'll have all the time in the world to farm for whatever legendary or set item you most desire. The reason why they removed the idea of droppable runes is exactly the wish for you all to be able to personalize your skills to max, in order to focus all your "farming" on whatever else yo may want to do.
Overall, the patch feels great, and I'm looking forward to an awesome full game. Keep up the good work, Blizz! [/QUOTE]
+ Show Spoiler + Played through the 13 the same way as I did 12 (DH)... This patch is about twice as good as the game was before.
First, the rune system is really nice. People are whining over nothing. Sure it's easy to build anyway you want now but there's still gear that will determine what builds work well. Now though I can actually play what I want without being relient on lucky rune drops.
Ok on to why patch 13 is so amazing...
-The new skill UI is miles ahead of the old one, though I wish elective mode would maybe consolidate more skills into fewer tabs so it was easier to pick the one you want. Still picking skills based on where you want them bound is just way more streamlined than before.
-The new progression is way beyond what we had before. You have something to look forward to every level which is great. Plus the usable rewards come way more often. As a DH Hungering Arrow/Impale are good enough to clear the beta with no sweat, so in 12 there wasn't much to look forward to after level 2. Now you get runes along the way that really help to have something to look forward to even if you aren't going to switch your skills out. On top of that you now get skill slots unlocked faster which makes the game way more engaging. In 12 you'd be pretty much strongly encouraged into a certain build. 1-5 you needed 1 resource generator/0 resource spell and 6-12 you'd have the same + one utility spell. Now the unlocks are 1,2,4,6,12 which means pretty early on you have slots enough to use interesting spells.
So for comparison in 12 my DH did: Hungering Arrow, Impale -> Elemental Arrow, Dodge which made combat super dull because it was just spam impale/elemental arrow until 0 hatred, then hungering arrow.
In 13 my DH by level 6 had: Hungering Arrow, Impale, Bola Shot (which was unusable in any build in 12), Rapid Fire This made combat awesome. I could pull off bola shots on packs of monsters, impale big guys, and use hungering arrow to finish guys off. Likewise I could have done a few other options like used evasive fire, caltrop (not really needed this early on though), or strafe instead.
So overall the new progression, especially for DH I suppose, kicks the crap out of the old progression.
(Note for the following: I played beta 2.5 times through in 12 while I don't have any hard proof stuff has changed 13's world felt pretty different including what spawned, how it spawned, and how much of it. It's possible I just had bad RNG luck, but I don't think so)
-Difficulty. 13 is not hard, just like 12. In some ways it's easier (more skill access) and some ways it's actually harder (a bit more HP, seemingly more elites). But overall it feels way better. In 12 there was no danger and there was no illusion of danger. This made the game feel more like a chore than anything (Gotta get through normal before the game is fun!). In 13 there is no danger, but the game does a much better job of creating an illusion of danager. The game seems to spawn more of the 2ndary monster types like the projectile skeleton summoners, the archer skeletons, quill beasts, and scavengers. Likewise the spawning seems to be better with more monsters overall (*My level seems to indicate this. On a full clear my DH just made level 10, on this play through my DH hit level 11 + 25% to 12) and more elites (I had about 7-8 elite packs in this run vs 2-3 in my previous). There seems to be more small events and more times when monsters spawn around you (again not a big deal, but makes the zombies FEEL more dangerous). Overall this drastically changes how I felt about the playthrough.
-World. My world this time felt much bigger/more open than before and in 12 the 3 times I went through areas they felt to have the same layout pretty much. This time I could see more areas that felt distinct in layout.
So overall this patch is A+ compared to before.
I still think the game will be fun to play... it just won't have a long life span for me. I've made 100s of characters in Diablo 2 because I enjoy trying out crazy stuff and making random builds. For me, building characters IS the goal/fun. In Diablo 3, I will make 5 characters. Simple as that.
Yeah but in D3 hypothetically you'll have stuff like Inferno being hard as shit to get through. On top of that you'll still need multiple sets of gear if you want to try out different builds.
Thanks guy for giving us REAL feedback That sounds a lot better than baseless QQing.
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On February 20 2012 04:56 Yacobs wrote: VdH, your argument is a straw man. The reason people are upset about stat allocation is because when a system doesn't work well you should FIX the system. Blizzard instead chose to simply remove it. If they were so concerned about retards playing the game then they could have easily made an "auto-allocation" option that is enabled by default.
Plus, sometimes it's fun to experiment with weird stat builds. Now there's basically no experimentation in the game at all.
Dude, you know what's wrong with the stat allocation system? It works like a charm in story-driven classic style RPGs, like Fallout 1 and 2, or any >3rd edition AD&D + KOTOR(which is AD&D inspired anyway). Why? Because the player actually has to think and plan and make REAL decisions whenever he allocates those points. "Am I gonna increase my constitution or my strength? A better CON gives me more survivability, while the STR adds to my damage...". Those were decisions that had a great impact on the character and the future game experience. (Not to mention friggin' Fallout 2, where you had to think 10 times before allocating a precious stat point when you had the chance to obtain one...). Diablo is an action-RPG, which means that the player generally wants (and needs) to lay down as much hurt as he can on hundreds of enemies while being able to wear the coolest gear and stay alive. Naturally, most players will aim for those cookie-cutter stat builds that allow them to do all these things. In Diablo, you don't have dilemmas like "Strength or Seduction? Hacking or Perception?" (VtM Bloodlines, just as an example) - that's why stat point allocation becomes useless for almost everybody. Sure, there are guys who want to try out wacky builds, but in D3, they can do so by customizing their gear and their skill choices via runes and such. How's this for an argument?
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No problem! My single player through of 12 was somewhat 'meh'* so when I rolled around in 13 and had a blast with the exact same character type I felt it was worthwhile to share.
*In 12 I found 2-player co-op to be a lot more engaging. Beyond the social aspect the game felt more than just 1-player doubled for 2 players and was more like how I wanted it (and how 13 feels now).
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Im in the beta aswell and i really have to say the patch is awesome, i love the new Skill&Runesystem. You get something new every level up. The Auction house is very funny to use, already sold 2 items . One minor critic would be that u cant create private channels at the moment, you can only join specific public chats. Everything else is awesome! From begin of beta until now i played 50~ hours, now its only 1/3 of act 1..., i guess this game will hook a lot :D.
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Patch 13 summarizing it up...
Lazy. Lets take out more shit to make it worse. Jay Wilson makes 6 figures for this game and they are to busy putting chili recipes on the forum site. What a joke.
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God i want beta, feels nice to read on DH improvements to funf actor though, its the class i want to play but it looked a bit boring before.
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This patch really sucks. I don't know if anyone else is finding it really bad because I did not read through this thread entirely.
Last patch the game was fun. I saw endgame potential with the rune system, I even saw the fun part of being able to twink out a fresh char once you had already made a high level char. Well, the new rune system pretty much ruins that.
Also, the skill system is pretty dumb. Did people really not know where or what to place on a certain mouse button? If I want to use Spectral Blades at level 1, I should be allowed to. Instead, I was forced to use magic misile to level 9, which made me not want to even play, god that sucked so much.
And level based rune system? Are you kidding? I thought this was supposed be be all about customization. Now we have to unlock that feature?
I really hope this is not release. Although, I have a hunch, this was in the works for quite some time. They gave us all the skills in previous builds only to take them away and reveal this.
Sucks.
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Ok finished leveling my wiz to lvl13 here are my thought:
Runes: Feel great, more choices to take, great idea to customize your spell. Problem: it makes beta even more easy than it was... my arcane orb runed has now double radius making me one shot half a screen... I hope games was not made easier overall in the process. The beta feels better than before overall and if difficulty is there in later difficulties I'm happy.
SkillUI: This is where I have a problem, this is pure garbage to me. I understand what they did for a noob friendly interface. I quickly removed the limitation by using the option... problem is it is still garbage. Hardcore gamers clearly got the finger on this one, this is the crappiest UI of crappy UI here are my thoughts I posted on Dfans:
Really for me it doesn't matter that much in the end, it's functional and get the job done but here is my feeling:
This UI is garbage imo:
1. Having to scroll through pages that only show 4 or 5 skills to find the ones you seek is a loss of time (in non noob mode).
2. It is also WAY too big for just 4 skill at a time (+passives)
3. It is REALLY annoying to "seek" the different runes you have unlocked, looking at future unlocks etc. because you cannot easily navigate to every skill at once: some slots cannot accept some skills (even in non noob mode) therefore you cannot look at the runes of this skill while having selected this slot, you must chose another slot JUST to look at this spell. Same thing happens when you try to look at runes of a spell you have already selected, since you cant assign a spell to 2 different slots you must go to the slot you have selected the spell just to look at runes.
What I'd like:
1,2. For point 1 and 2 Really I would have liked all skill displayed at the same time with tiny color icon below each skill icon that shows what runes are available, then if Blizzard really insist on it, just draw lines to split skills in category. This would both make the UI smaller and not require you to scroll pages. For the noob version just highlight the category of the slot and darken other skills. For runes when you select a skill another small window pops with the different runes.
3. Elective mode should remove EVERYTHING about any limitation. I mean no more skills that cannot be assigned to mouse button and the possibility to assign a spell twice. This would at least eliminate point 3.
4. Last idea, do something like I described for pros, keep this shit for noobs.
In the end this doesn't make or break the experience and the game is great, runes add a lot imo, but really this UI is soooo clumsy that it is not worth of a "our best idea" material.
In the end this doesn't make or break the experience and the game is great, runes add a lot imo, but really this UI is soooo clumsy that it is not worth of a "our best idea" material.
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New rune system is shit. Allow me to elaborate.
Instead of having to work for runes that improved and advanced your abilities to help you stand apart from others, you are now handed them free. But in the most ass way possible. If there is a fun rune for your build, with the old system you could pick up a rune and start having fun with it quickly, now there is a chance you have to level all the way to the end before that rune gets handed to you.
The UI for the new system is god awful. I dont think anyone here really likes it anyway. Im not sure I need to elaborate.
Runes used to be cool drops, with a whole crafting system built around it, thats all gone now
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Most of the runes unlock pretty early. The skills you get from 1-5 seem to cap out at 35 (for reference your last skill unlocks at 30) and the skills you get from 7-11 seem to end at 51 for the 5th rune.
So other than the last rune for a skill you should have pretty early access to most runes, or at least enough of them to not be a big deal.
Besides your passives go on pretty far themselves and they're just as likely to keep you from making a certain build.
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The new skills menu reminds me of the Rogers commercial, where two seniors are discussing a new cellphone designed specifically for them. The cellphone has large buttons and is easy to use, it also has a button that calls a family or friend in case of emergency.
Does Blizz think I am an old person?
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On February 20 2012 12:15 Boggler wrote: The new skills menu reminds me of the Rogers commercial, where two seniors are discussing a new cellphone designed specifically for them. The cellphone has large buttons and is easy to use, it also has a button that calls a family or friend in case of emergency.
Does Blizz think I am an old person?
The funny part is I don't think this UI is so much more noob friendly, I'm pretty sure I'll have to explain most of it to my GF anyway if she starts playing...
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On February 20 2012 06:56 VdH wrote: what's wrong with the stat allocation system? It works like a charm in story-driven classic style RPGs, like Fallout 1 and 2, or any >3rd edition AD&D + KOTOR(which is AD&D inspired anyway). Why? Because the player actually has to think and plan and make REAL decisions whenever he allocates those points. "Am I gonna increase my constitution or my strength? A better CON gives me more survivability, while the STR adds to my damage...". Those were decisions that had a great impact on the character and the future game experience. (Not to mention friggin' Fallout 2, where you had to think 10 times before allocating a precious stat point when you had the chance to obtain one...). Diablo is an action-RPG, which means that the player generally wants (and needs) to lay down as much hurt as he can on hundreds of enemies while being able to wear the coolest gear and stay alive. Naturally, most players will aim for those cookie-cutter stat builds that allow them to do all these things. In Diablo, you don't have dilemmas like "Strength or Seduction? Hacking or Perception?" (VtM Bloodlines, just as an example) - that's why stat point allocation becomes useless for almost everybody. Sure, there are guys who want to try out wacky builds, but in D3, they can do so by customizing their gear and their skill choices via runes and such. How's this for an argument?
You failed to answer the spirit of my post, instead choosing to elaborate on the silly point you've already made.
But let's discuss what you wrote, for laughs. In Fallout, AD&D, KOTOR, and any other "story-driven classic style RPGs," there is always a painfully obvious way to build your character optimally. Every heard of Small Guns? Perception, much? You can become a killing machine AND a diplomacy master with ease. And I'm not sure why you bring up KOTOR or any other BioWare title. They haven't made a game that involves any actual character choice since BG2 (no, choosing the good side vs. the evil side doesn't count). BioWare games have become the epitome of retard-friendly design. Why would I want that for Diablo?
You seem married to the idea that a mediocre implementation in Diablo 2 means that the feature should be condemned outright. Why don't you answer this: why can't you fix the problem rather than ignoring it? Answering that stat points are too much to think about when all you want to do is run around and kill sh1t, yo, is not valid because not everyone is like you and having an "auto-allocation" system for attributes would elegantly address your lack of interest in depth.
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On February 20 2012 13:30 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 06:56 VdH wrote: what's wrong with the stat allocation system? It works like a charm in story-driven classic style RPGs, like Fallout 1 and 2, or any >3rd edition AD&D + KOTOR(which is AD&D inspired anyway). Why? Because the player actually has to think and plan and make REAL decisions whenever he allocates those points. "Am I gonna increase my constitution or my strength? A better CON gives me more survivability, while the STR adds to my damage...". Those were decisions that had a great impact on the character and the future game experience. (Not to mention friggin' Fallout 2, where you had to think 10 times before allocating a precious stat point when you had the chance to obtain one...). Diablo is an action-RPG, which means that the player generally wants (and needs) to lay down as much hurt as he can on hundreds of enemies while being able to wear the coolest gear and stay alive. Naturally, most players will aim for those cookie-cutter stat builds that allow them to do all these things. In Diablo, you don't have dilemmas like "Strength or Seduction? Hacking or Perception?" (VtM Bloodlines, just as an example) - that's why stat point allocation becomes useless for almost everybody. Sure, there are guys who want to try out wacky builds, but in D3, they can do so by customizing their gear and their skill choices via runes and such. How's this for an argument?
You failed to answer the spirit of my post, instead choosing to elaborate on the silly point you've already made. But let's discuss what you wrote, for laughs. In Fallout, AD&D, KOTOR, and any other "story-driven classic style RPGs," there is always a painfully obvious way to build your character optimally. Every heard of Small Guns? Perception, much? You can become a killing machine AND a diplomacy master with ease. And I'm not sure why you bring up KOTOR or any other BioWare title. They haven't made a game that involves any actual character choice since BG2 (no, choosing the good side vs. the evil side doesn't count). BioWare games have become the epitome of retard-friendly design. Why would I want that for Diablo? You seem married to the idea that a mediocre implementation in Diablo 2 means that the feature should be condemned outright. Why don't you answer this: why can't you fix the problem rather than ignoring it? Answering that stat points are too much to think about when all you want to do is run around and kill sh1t, yo, is not valid because not everyone is like you and having an "auto-allocation" system for attributes would elegantly address your lack of interest in depth.
In those other games stats/permanent choices make your character and significantly alter the way they play (dialogue options, available solutions to puzzles, etc.) even if they aren't optimal and your method of picking skills influences what you have access to while playing. So while a certain build in Fallout is great, playing through with low int gives you a unique experience that's almost completely different. In Diablo you just kill shit and try to stay alive.
So in Diablo that doesn't happen until the end of the game. It's apples to oranges. There's absolutely no reason to play anything that's not optimal. There's no enjoyable content or greatly different character you get by having interesting stat allocation when it's only about survivability and damage output.
At best you can choose between stuff like burst dps vs sustained (say str vs energy) or minimizing dps (dodge/block rating) vs having more hp (vitality). But... D3 already does this! If I want to be a burst DPS master I can just grab a bunch of resource spending skills that stack in an interesting way (say Shadow Power for more damage, Preperation runed to restore hatred, Marked for Death to boost damage done, and a heavy hatred spender like Impale to really dish it out). Same with other choices (tanking via mitigation vs hp comes down to gear and again skill choices). Ok so you can't tank with a mana shield anymore, but that's no a stat thing; it's because there's no mana shield.
I'd love to see any stat system suggested for D3 that doesn't boil down to a mathematical optimization trick duplicating what gear already does and I'd love to see it because it probably can't be done.
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The UI actually got more tedius for me since I couldnt click on a skill on my bar and change it there...Don't like the change. I just didnt see how it wasnt simple enough already. As for runes, I wish I had the chance to get a bunch of different runes really early so I could have more than one effect for so many levels.
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I don't like the new Skill UI, it's so clunky and weird to use. Add the new Rune system to that, and I'm actually considering not buying D3. It's just not the same without the element of nearly unlimited drops.
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You guys dont ahve to discuss the UI anymore. It's shit and everyone knows it.
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found this on the blizz forums
seems like the chat channels are being put to good use
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Yacobs, you haven't got the slightest clue what game design actually is - your post painfully suggests this fact. First I'll respond to your attempt to counter my argument, then I'll tell why there isn't a single stat system that would not be redundant given D3's basic game mechanics.
Take Fallout 2, one of my examples. Sure, you can become a killing machine by boosting your PE to > 8 at the start, tagging Small Guns and boosting it to ~200%, but is that just one small way to enjoy the game for some people. Other will have a blast using the Power Fist, or maxing out skills like Sneak, Lockpick, Science or Steal. Why is Small Guns, high PE + Gauss Rifle the "painfully optimal" build? Just because it rips enemies to shreds? That's BESIDE the point of the game - combat is just an aspect, there's much more to Fallout than shooting stuff - if you don't realize this, I'm sorry for you, cause you're missing out on some awesome aspects of the game. In fact, there isn't one single character you can build in Fallout that has the versatility to explore every option you want on a single playthrough.
"And I'm not sure why you bring up KOTOR or any other BioWare title. They haven't made a game that involves any actual character choice since BG2" - is this a fucking joke? In BG2 and any 2nd edition D&D game, stat points get ROLLED or allocated at the start. Let's talk a little about the NWN series, where you actually had the option of adding stat points throughout the game, stat points that gave you multiclassing options and unlocked whole new skill trees... now in those situations, you really had to think twice before allocating those precious stats - "Do I wanna be a better Fighter, a better Mage or do I wanna choose a Prestige Class at the next level?"
"Why can't you fix the problem rather than ignoring it?" you ask... Well, first and foremost, Blizz already answered that. Jay Wilson said that they wanted to implement stat allocation at the start of the design process, they tested a lot of options throughout their internal builds, but couldn't come out with something satisfactory... Why was that, you ask? Because Diablo has a lot of features that are indispensable to the core mechanics of the game, and those features don't allow Blizz to implement a non-redundant stat allocation method?
What's cool about Diablo? Well, the loot system, the high-end gear, and the skills themselves. What will people naturally do? They'll try to find their coolest combination of skills (in their view) and then they'll seek out the beast gear they can finally best support and augment that combination to the max. Now, gear has requirements.... AS SOON AS you add a stat requirement for gear, people will add to those stats to their characters only as much as they need for that particular piece, hence the huge issue. Ok, remove stat requirements... but then what are we left with? The mechanics of each class don't allow for a great amount of flexibility - you can't have a Barbarian stop time or shoot Disintegrate rays, because then you'll have a very blurry line between the Barbarian and the Wizard... so still, why do we need stat allocation? Where is it relevant to the game mechanics? Sure, you could allocate some stats from the start, to give you some variations in skill behavior, amount of HP and Mana/Spirit/Arcane Power etc. for the rest of the game, but when you go Online, and especially to PvP, the trend of optimizing everything will again take over, and stat builds will become clones of the "optimal" one for each class. Furthermore, if new stat points could be spent at each level, the difference they would make would be hardly worth it when the player can find pieces of gear that provide huge bonuses, largely overriding the basic function of the added stat.
TL;DR: Blizzard made a design choice, pure and simple. They chose to focus character customization on the skill system, along with gear procuring methods and dedicated endgame areas and difficulties rather than spend months working on a half-redundant (at best) stat system.
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On February 20 2012 10:21 Medrea wrote:New rune system is shit. Allow me to elaborate. Instead of having to work for runes that improved and advanced your abilities to help you stand apart from others, you are now handed them free. But in the most ass way possible. If there is a fun rune for your build, with the old system you could pick up a rune and start having fun with it quickly, now there is a chance you have to level all the way to the end before that rune gets handed to you. The UI for the new system is god awful. I dont think anyone here really likes it anyway. Im not sure I need to elaborate. Runes used to be cool drops, with a whole crafting system built around it, thats all gone now
I kinda have to laugh here. I think you work more for your runes when you earn them by leveling then when you have to pray for them to drop. And in the old system there were only runes that dropped in a certain difficulty so you could only use it at a certain level anyway. The UI could use some streamlining yeah but it's personally not a big deal for me.
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I really don't mind the rune system of unlocking them rather than finding them. The new skill UI is beyond horrible though. Hopefully they change it back to how it was last patch.
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On February 20 2012 15:33 Assault_1 wrote: found this on the blizz forums
seems like the chat channels are being put to good use
Love the "Report sent." :d
But yeh that's the aspect that a lot people seem to forget when talking about chat channels as well as a custom map hosting system where you can choose the game's name yourself...
It's in some way just really inappropriate for a professional company to provide a service like this. I mean in Starcraft 2 it's no different and that is 12+ or so? And I doubt anyone of any age would like to read such moronic crap. Regarding the custom map hosting system, in Warcraft 3 there were a ton of games open named after urls to porn sites, hacker sites or just generally inappropriate.
Of course the fact that you cannot just simply create one account after the other helps with that slightly, but still, when Diablo 3 has like 10 million players that's one hell of a job for Blizzard to take care of all the reports etc. And I mean you have to check whether a report is valid too, and choose an "appropriate" punishment. It's not like guys that talk crap like in those screenshots would agree with getting punished for that. They'd just get mad and post angry stuff about Blizzard everywhere they could.
So yeh, public chat channels like in Wc3 / Sc1 have their fair share of negative aspects too, which should be taken into considertion more often.
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Just got a betakey! I didnt have any free time as it was already Ah well, I guess I can allways combine stuff or scrap things like sleeping and eating
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On February 21 2012 00:48 ihasaKAROT wrote:Just got a betakey! I didnt have any free time as it was already Ah well, I guess I can allways combine stuff or scrap things like sleeping and eating
It's not like it's that much content. Maybe 10-15 hours max if you really want to get every character to level 13
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is patch 13 worth playing through the beta again? do you get gem unlocks before lvl 12 or whenever you kill the last boss?
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Yes, it's worth a run through. (assuming you're talking about rune unlocks, they start at lvl6)
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On February 22 2012 06:05 Gescom wrote: Yes, it's worth a run through. (assuming you're talking about rune unlocks, they start at lvl6) hes talking about gem unlocks, they're not in the game
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Can't seem to join Public Games half the time, just shows a blankish screen when looking for quests to join.
Anyone else have this issue?
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On February 22 2012 05:56 Corvi wrote: is patch 13 worth playing through the beta again? do you get gem unlocks before lvl 12 or whenever you kill the last boss?
I would go for it; should try out the Ui and learn what is what since a lot has changed. That, and you get to try out a few of the actual runes.
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On February 22 2012 06:26 Shunjal wrote: Can't seem to join Public Games half the time, just shows a blankish screen when looking for quests to join.
Anyone else have this issue?
Me. One of the main reasons why I didn't really play much after patch 13.
Details here. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4079869096
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Got a general question here. Does the weapon DPS factor into primary skill damage? Let's say we look at the damage of the Demon Hunter's bola shot skill, does a better crossbow improve this DPS or not? When not, what's the point in getting high DPS weapons when you don't put them to use anyway?
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On March 06 2012 06:56 Argoth. wrote: Got a general question here. Does the weapon DPS factor into primary skill damage? Let's say we look at the damage of the Demon Hunter's bola shot skill, does a better crossbow improve this DPS or not? When not, what's the point in getting high DPS weapons when you don't put them to use anyway?
they do.
Skills for example do 135% of ur dmg etc.
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On March 06 2012 06:56 Argoth. wrote: Got a general question here. Does the weapon DPS factor into primary skill damage? Let's say we look at the damage of the Demon Hunter's bola shot skill, does a better crossbow improve this DPS or not? When not, what's the point in getting high DPS weapons when you don't put them to use anyway? Doesn't every skill say "does x% weapon damage". Meaning better weapons make your skills do a lot more damage. This is really noticable ingame.
Although I think attack speed (which also increases the dps) changes some other factors. But just higher DAMAGE (not dps) weapon increases the damage of all your skills too.
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On March 06 2012 07:19 imPermanenCe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 06:56 Argoth. wrote: Got a general question here. Does the weapon DPS factor into primary skill damage? Let's say we look at the damage of the Demon Hunter's bola shot skill, does a better crossbow improve this DPS or not? When not, what's the point in getting high DPS weapons when you don't put them to use anyway? Doesn't every skill say "does x% weapon damage". Meaning better weapons make your skills do a lot more damage. This is really noticable ingame. Although I think attack speed (which also increases the dps) changes some other factors. But just higher DAMAGE (not dps) weapon increases the damage of all your skills too.
Attack speed changes the animation speeds. So for any skill you spam, each component of DPS (Damage + Attack speed) does matter.
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