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On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard
Well, that's kind of logical, isn't it? I mean, Blizzard hosts huge amounts of servers for games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, and unlike WoW they don't ask players to pay a monthly fee while they do have to pay for those servers. They have to get their money from somewhere. Blizzard, like any company out there, isn't a charity that aims to please us, poor gamers, at every turn.
Besides, I played a lot of Diablo 2 without ever bothering to post in a chat channel. I just played the game with a group of friends, or on my own. People seem to forget that there still is a huge demographic that barely ever plays online.
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On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard
That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
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On March 29 2012 23:15 xavra41 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
Don't kid yourselves >_>
Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
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On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote:
It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone?
its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics.
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On March 29 2012 23:21 kuresuti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:15 xavra41 wrote:On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard That's why they made a channel named "trade"? Don't kid yourselves >_> Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
He said they didn't want chat channels to prevent trading. But yeah I would advertise in chat channels to sell shit because of the giant transaction fee. I have made 1.5 mill in this patch (14) from flipping in the AH so i know it like the back of my hand.
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On March 29 2012 23:21 kuresuti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:15 xavra41 wrote:On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard That's why they made a channel named "trade"? Don't kid yourselves >_> Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
You obviously never played any MMO with an AH. A majority of people used chat systems or forums to sell shit even with the AH.
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You know, if you actually read the thread you'd know that chat channels are in right now. I know reading is boring and everything so I even took a screenshot.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8hlXC.jpg)
They still suck like every ingame chat ever, use IRC.
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Of course there are channels, but they are very crippled, just like in Sc2. Who uses all those public chat channels? There's almost nobody in there and you cannot get something going there. They don't care about 20 ppl trading via channels, but I am sure they do care if 80% of all the users would circumvent the Auctionhouse via easy accessible, and organizable chatrooms with a good system.
You'll not go around and search for some channel with frequent visitors, when you can just click one button and use the AH.
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On March 29 2012 23:49 zJayy962 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:21 kuresuti wrote:On March 29 2012 23:15 xavra41 wrote:On March 29 2012 21:31 Kuni wrote:
Translation:
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse.
Thank You
Le Blizzard That's why they made a channel named "trade"? Don't kid yourselves >_> Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH. You obviously never played any MMO with an AH. A majority of people used chat systems or forums to sell shit even with the AH.
Irrelevant, Diablo isn't an MMO. The volume of trades per person in Diablo is a lot higher than most other games, using channels will simply be too tedious. Just curious, what MMOs are you talking about exactly?
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On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote:
I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
Do you feel some sort of power by being so monumentally ignorant? I mean it's hard to understand how someone can have the gall to say "who cares?" when the bnet forums are constantly alight with this discussion on their own. It's quite clear that people DO care and they care very much.
Furthermore I don't understand why anyone would actually be against the implementation of a Bnet that doesn't suck in the social aspect. People that just want to play can do that and nothng changes for them. For the people that want to be social...yea those are the ones that typically play several YEARS longer than the people that just play the game. It is important and nobody should be against making Bnet better because as it is now it's absolutely terrible and shows no signs of obvious improvement.
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I do feel without the old bnet chat channels is going to be more productive in the sense that you will be more focused on playing rather just doing stupid shit in chat channel. I like the idea of private guild channels and friends channels. Pub chat is just retarded, all you see is trolls and spammers.
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On March 29 2012 23:23 Gorguts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote:
It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone? its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics.
It's really disgusting how creative gameplay and innovative ideas have been phased out as companies try to maximize their profit. They really don't care about making a great game anymore.
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On April 01 2012 02:37 TORTOISE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:23 Gorguts wrote:On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote:
It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone? its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics. It's really disgusting how creative gameplay and innovative ideas have been phased out as companies try to maximize their profit. They really don't care about making a great game anymore.
Whether a game is good or not is purely personal. Personally, I find that the best games ever are games that have come out the past 5 years or so, and that includes the COD: MW series, Starcraft 2, Half Life 2: Ep2, Skyim, Bioshock etc.
Personally, I don't care too much about chat channels either. I never really used them in Diablo 2, Lord of Destruction, Warcraft 3 or Starcraft 2.
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On April 01 2012 03:36 maartendq wrote:
Whether a game is good or not is purely personal. Personally, I find that the best games ever are games that have come out the past 5 years or so, and that includes the COD: MW series, Starcraft 2, Half Life 2: Ep2, Skyim, Bioshock etc.
Personally, I don't care too much about chat channels either. I never really used them in Diablo 2, Lord of Destruction, Warcraft 3 or Starcraft 2.
I can understand your point of view, but wouldn't you agree that it could at least be an option you can turn on or off?
So people like you can turn it off and keep playing without chat, the way they like. And people that do want to chat can also have it. That way those two perfectly valid views would not collide and everyone will be happier about it.
The thing is, a lot of people actually have some sort of clan and would like to have a place to meet online before or in between the games. Of course you can still play the game without chat channels. That is not what s being argued over the bnet forums (and here).
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I think Blizzard has forgotten just why their games used to be so incredibly fun. When you play a boardgame you don't just stare at your opponent, make your moves, and when the game is done you go upstairs to sleep, no you freak out, you bargain, you laugh and you have a great time. Older Blizzard games captured that sort of feeling, that you could talk jump into a chat channel and talk about the game, or just talk about whatever was the topic that day, and the Clan/Guild features made that so much better since you would also sort of "know" the people you were talking to. Newer Blizzard games make me feel like I'm playing against the AI when I'm playing multiplayer. The only difference is that this AI is much more likely to swear at me. People are simply more friendly when they feel they know who they are around, and chat channels and clans did that for the players.
I'm not saying that PC games should give the player the same sense of community as boardgames do, they obviously can't, but regardless of that, BW and WC3 felt better and more fun to play than SC2 ever did, even though the games were not necessarily better, and that can all be attributed to the UI.
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On February 09 2012 07:17 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:12 Glasse wrote:On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player. Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all. If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house. It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either. I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard. Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue. In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0. Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing  Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam. Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well. As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
All of my current gaming buddies are people I met and bonded with from Warcraft III. Some of them from public channel too. Another very close friend of mine (still to this day) is someone I met on a Warcraft III public channel. One of these people also met his current girlfriend whom he now lives with through WC3, girlfriend whom I and my other friends met on a public channel. Mock it if you will, but it's true and it's still going on, after about 6 years. I can't say I have experienced the same thing with SC2. One, because the game isn't nearly as fun as WC3 to me - I really find WC3 to be the ultimate game Blizzard has made so far - and two, because you really do feel alone on BNet 2.0.
I wasn't all that excited about D3 because it's not really my type of game, eventhough I did play D1 and D2. I also was not excited about SC2, but I bought it anyway for the sake of how I feel (well.. felt) about Blizzard. I pretty much trusted their judgement and figured hey it's Blizzard, so let's spend some money.
I won't be doing the same with D3, I have no intention of buying it whatsoever. And to the people who say "yes you will buy it because you posted here blabla" I'm merely answering to this statement of you can't make any long term friends through chats. The next Blizzard game I might buy is WC4, but I will for sure be skipping D3 and the next SC2 expansions to come.
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No imba chat system, no moding ability....Well, a lot of people will buy this game but it will die very soon imo
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On April 01 2012 20:54 Sps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 07:17 Excalibur_Z wrote:On February 09 2012 06:12 Glasse wrote:On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player. Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all. If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house. It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either. I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard. Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue. In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0. Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam. Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well. As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels. All of my current gaming buddies are people I met and bonded with from Warcraft III. Some of them from public channel too. Another very close friend of mine (still to this day) is someone I met on a Warcraft III public channel. One of these people also met his current girlfriend whom he now lives with through WC3, girlfriend whom I and my other friends met on a public channel. Mock it if you will, but it's true and it's still going on, after about 6 years. I can't say I have experienced the same thing with SC2. One, because the game isn't nearly as fun as WC3 to me - I really find WC3 to be the ultimate game Blizzard has made so far - and two, because you really do feel alone on BNet 2.0. I wasn't all that excited about D3 because it's not really my type of game, eventhough I did play D1 and D2. I also was not excited about SC2, but I bought it anyway for the sake of how I feel (well.. felt) about Blizzard. I pretty much trusted their judgement and figured hey it's Blizzard, so let's spend some money. I won't be doing the same with D3, I have no intention of buying it whatsoever. And to the people who say "yes you will buy it because you posted here blabla" I'm merely answering to this statement of you can't make any long term friends through chats. The next Blizzard game I might buy is WC4, but I will for sure be skipping D3 and the next SC2 expansions to come.
I don't know you meet most of your buddies in public chat, at least for me I would add people who are cool and competent in the game rather than adding someone from public chat. I've said this before, without the public chat, there will be less spam, less trolling, and more gaming. If you want to chat, I am sure you can chat up a storm in game or find an IRC channel for that purpose.
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On April 02 2012 01:46 bOneSeven wrote:
No imba chat system, no moding ability....Well, a lot of people will buy this game but it will die very soon imo
Why would it die soon because of no chat and no modding? Are you new to Blizzard games or something? Look at SC and D2, both no modding and they were/are still the most popular games around. You are comparing apples with oranges, WoW is MMORPG, D2/D3 are RPGs.
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I do feel without the old bnet chat channels is going to be more productive in the sense that you will be more focused on playing rather just doing stupid shit in chat channel.
The social experience is what made and makes SCBW / D2 / War3 battle.net so great
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EPT
