As far as having open public channels, there's far more negative to them than positive and we maintain a stance that creating an open chat environment without a social structure behind it is an invitation for moderation and support disasters. Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future.
No social tools at launch beyond the friend list/facebook stuff just like we had in SC2. No clan system, it's all stuff they want "in the future"
My biggest complaint of D3 beta is that the game looks like bnet 0.2 hasn't even stepped up to version 0.3 yet. There's a "find public group" button and nothing else. If you don't want to play a specific quest, what do you do? If you want to find people to trade with, how do you do it? It's just like SC2. If you have people on your friends list you can play with them, but you are basically cut off from everyone else.
They are making the same mistake all over again. The thing is, Diablo to me requires even more social tools than SC2 bnet did, and people were universally unhappy with one, I don't see how people will be satisfied when D3 delivers the same underwhelming UI.
I just don't understand what kind of online system actively tries to stop you from communicating with other players.
Edit: seems like everyone in that thread are very much against it as well.
"Let's repeat the same mistakes we did with starcraft 2." "I'm not the only one who feels lonely among the masses of boring silent rushers." "I would miss that if it werent there. Battle.net will feel so empty. Alone under millions." "I will no longer be purchasing Diablo 3. This is pathetic." "Let's not even try to fix it let's just throw it out (the game)." "dear god is blizzard seriously clueless about how open chat channels were what made the sc1/wc3/d2 communities grow huge and have a very "home-like" feeling to them?"
When I opeened friend list in Beta and there was Cain yelling "You have no friends." I was ROFL for quite some time, made me wanna see FotR once again ^^
Yea B.net 2.0 sucks, all SC2 players know that. I really dont know why Blizzard dont want country chats, such a nice thing back in days that even when totally new you had people to talk with in native language... No privacy either - if someone wants to harass you, your chat on anything... well he can. Lets just hope everyone has 1000 pals to play with, everyone is nice and nobody want to hack or abuse something and then you gotta love new b.net.
Not impressed, not impressed at all. Back in D2 days there weren't even a lot of serious online RPG-based mass multiplayer games to compete with D2. Nowadays there are gazillions of them out there, and with good quality too. How is D3 going to appeal to the generic mass of gamers when it lacks the 'community' feeling?
I think what they meant is that they don't have the staff power or programming capabilities to weed out the bots and spammers.
Come on, is this really necessary? I mean... I can understand their arguments, but their not very accurate really. Since when were general chats in D2 all that bad? I mean sure, there will be some idiots here and there, but that's unavoidable anyway, Diablo requires socializing. This certainly won't help the cause... I'm a little dissapointed, hopefully things turn out alright. I'd hate to be let down by the most anticipated game of this millenium >.>
Can't say I expected better from blizz since bnet 0.2 was unveiled in sc2 :\ i'll still buy the game, but the old blizzard that used to be a dream factory lost its place in my heart a long time ago
You have to understand, you guys are the minority. The research pretty much confirms what Blizzard is doing. Basically, the biggest demographic of multiplayer videogames, 14-25 year old males, is a complete turn off to every other demographic. It's a negative experience for everyone else. Almost every other year, I read a major study showing how the biggest stumbling block to the expansion of hardcore multiplayer games is its current player base.
WoW's player base is generally older than most games in the market nowadays, especially FPS and action games. And I still have most general chat channels turned off on most of my characters. SC2's community is even worse, just judging from in game chat.
I can definitely see more negatives than positives in allowing public chat channels. It's pretty odd that they don't have guild support, though, as many of my current and former WoW guildmates are likely to pick up this game.
I have spent years telling everyone how I would trash every other game when D3 comes and now it's getting to a point where I consider not even buying it.
They're not clueless. They're not putting these features in to save money (on development time, on moderators, on complaints from players with thin skins, etc.) and they're simply presenting it as "Daddy Blizzard knows best!"
On February 07 2012 06:50 Yacobs wrote: They're not clueless. They're not putting these features in to save money (on development time, on moderators, on complaints from players with thin skins, etc.) and they're simply presenting it as "Daddy Blizzard knows best!"
not just to save money, but to MAKE money by eliminating the option of bartering item for item through chat, and forcing users to use the AH for their every trading needs. KACHING!
On February 07 2012 07:35 mark05 wrote: Why do they have to keep making the same mistakes and again and again, don't they learn?
elimination of chat channels = higher profits && community complaining = irrelevant bitching and whining cuz u gonna buy the game anyway -> eliminate chat channels
This has been known for ages already so i'm not sure what the fuss is about really. Then again, at this point it seems the raging mob has great pleasure picking up their torch and pitchfork to rip into Blizzard about pretty much anything. Yet most, if not all of them will still end up buying the game at release. There's so many other way to communicate with others these days, mainly voice comms ( skype, ventrilo, teamspeak and such ) but also all sorts of big community forums. I personally know more then enough people who will play D3, and especially with max 4 player per game it will be really easy to fill up games. You actually see how many spots there are free in games your friends are in via the friendslist now, which is really neat ! And if you somehow dont have any friends there will still be public games to join and meet new people.
Why the fuck does Blizzard continue to think people actually like playing within a totally empty vacuum of space? They've been saying they would make upgrades to the failed turd that is Bnet 2.0 since launch of SC2 and not much has been done. I had real expectations some improvements would be made with the release of D3 but I see Blizzard once again does what they have done best since the release of WoW: disappoint.
personally i play videogames to play the game, not to talk to people since I do that plenty when i go outside. From my experience, a lot of the people on the internet are people I wouldn't want to be friends with
The no chat for trade is kinda lame tho, but i guess thats what auction house is for
I will still be purchasing the game, but I am also starting to feel like the game is only going to be greater a year or two after release. I understand that the game itself has issues and it has delayed the game. That I do not mind; but b.net is a seperate issue. B.net is meant to be a core mechanic for the future Blizzard games.
Yes, it does need the assistance of the actual Diablo III development team to implement it. But I think this whole notion of, "looking to add something in the future" is getting a bit old. We were told about channels and chat before Sc2 release. How long did it take for even that to be implemented? Now, I thought that since it was in Sc2, we would have at least gotten to that point and progressed a little bit. It just does not seem like that is the case anymore.
On February 07 2012 05:59 andrewlt wrote: You have to understand, you guys are the minority. The research pretty much confirms what Blizzard is doing. Basically, the biggest demographic of multiplayer videogames, 14-25 year old males, is a complete turn off to every other demographic. It's a negative experience for everyone else. Almost every other year, I read a major study showing how the biggest stumbling block to the expansion of hardcore multiplayer games is its current player base.
WoW's player base is generally older than most games in the market nowadays, especially FPS and action games. And I still have most general chat channels turned off on most of my characters. SC2's community is even worse, just judging from in game chat.
I can definitely see more negatives than positives in allowing public chat channels. It's pretty odd that they don't have guild support, though, as many of my current and former WoW guildmates are likely to pick up this game.
If they don´t want the 14-25 year old males to turn away other demographics, they should consider thatin any event those 14-25 year old males will alwys be 60%-80% of the people who buy and play this game for months. If you remove that pesky and annoying demographic, then there is next to nothing left.
I see no way that people older than 35 and women of all ages will ever stay long enough on a game like this. If they want to target another demographic, maybe they should make other games.
I don't understand blizzard's issue with b.net 1, they basically say "it simply doesnt work" yet it was perfect for sc and d2. they think no communication is best? and fuckin b.net 2, look how convoluted its UI is.. 80% of the stuff you never touch.
there's some improvements, like matchmaking and auction house I guess.. with millions of people you cant just have a big list of public games like d2 had, u'd have to sort them. Auction house would've been perfect with just gold, but with real money its a big nuisance (everytime you find something good, you think "should I keep it or make money?").
I'm not buying D3. They have already proven that the "new" BNet is utter garbage. There is no reason not to implement chat channels. The people who actually use it purposely should override what spam it causes.
On February 07 2012 09:58 Assault_1 wrote: I don't understand blizzard's issue with b.net 1, they basically say "it simply doesnt work" yet it was perfect for sc and d2. they think no communication is best? and fuckin b.net 2, look how convoluted its UI is.. 80% of the stuff you never touch.
there's some improvements, like matchmaking and auction house I guess.. with millions of people you cant just have a big list of public games like d2 had, u'd have to sort them. Auction house would've been perfect with just gold, but with real money its a big nuisance (everytime you find something good, you think "should I keep it or make money?").
B.net 1.0 was quite outdated though. I do find it quite humerous that one of the rationalities for B.net 2.0 was to allow for more of a broader, social interaction theme to be added. But due to the rather deplorable and very delay progression to B.net, it is actually hindered any Social interaction beyond that of actually being in the game.
I am having slight difficulties remembering but, can anyone remind me how many changes have actually been done to B.net 2.0? I know it was released, and I remember channels being introduced. But I can't recall anything else or anything significant beyond that.
Some of the stuff Blizzard is doing with Bnet 0.2 is almost saying "we DARE you to say you won't buy this, because we're almost sure you WILL no matter what features we take out."
On February 07 2012 11:01 scaban84 wrote: I don't believe for a half-second that people posting in a D3 forum are not going to buy the game. So lols...
Exactly, as said before; see you all at release. And if not, your loss. =)
On February 07 2012 11:01 Serpico wrote: Some of the stuff Blizzard is doing with Bnet 0.2 is almost saying "we DARE you to say you won't buy this, because we're almost sure you WILL no matter what features we take out."
They've dared me to not buy HOTS or Legacy of the void either, and I'm not buying Diablo 3 either. I stopped playing SC2 actually precisely because whenever I had it open I couldn't chat with anyone and I just got bored of only playing the game with no interaction.
They're going to need to make a really nice game to get any of my money again, at least I'll be saving like 100 euros
Blizz games too expensive, they gotta have the content to make up for it. Welp, looks like I'm playing 50 indie games instead (or maybe just buying hats for techies :D).
On February 07 2012 04:39 Klesky wrote: Sigh, I don't really understand this at all. I mean, 70% of the time I spent 'playing D2' I was sitting in channels talking about irrelevant shit. And I don't agree that it introduces more negatives, the only real negative was the spambots, but they won't exist due to the RMAH. So I'm a little confused as to why they want to do this.
Oh and this "release a game, patch in the rest of the contents later." that Blizzard is doing now is pretty annoying.
To be honest, I think that Blizzard is just content with making everything harder to get so they make more money. They should stop being greedy and put out a damn competent game and then with the patches / expansions MAKE IT EVEN BETTER. It's really frustrating when they continue to make the same mistakes and you read all the feedback comments ARE UNANIMOUS so do they not even read them? What the hell is going on @ Blizz HQ seriously...
hm? Seems fine, or at least for the chat channel thing. He said he's ok with chat channel that a user creates and can invite people into, I mean, that is what a chat channel is. He's saying he doesn't want something like the SC2 "General Discussion" Chat channel or whatever, which I'm fine with.
I give up. It would have been nice if Blizzard were the company I had hoped, that never fucked up. But it's not a big deal, we can look for games somewhere else. I feel like a schmuck because in hindsight this result should have been obvious at the release of WoW.
On February 07 2012 11:01 scaban84 wrote: I don't believe for a half-second that people posting in a D3 forum are not going to buy the game. So lols...
Exactly, as said before; see you all at release. And if not, your loss. =)
None of us needs this game. There are tons of other games and other companies. Maybe there's one person in the thread who has a fetish and gets off patronizing bad companies. The rest of us figure if we are going to waste our time, it might as well be with a game we like.
It blows my mind that companies keep creating this situation where they vacuum every grain out of the community's sandbox because the studio insists on being internet nannies. Hopefully Blizzards will be self-defeating in the long run and we can have a good industry again.
I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Blizzard has lost a lot of what made me love them, since they messed up Battle.net 2.0 so hard and now this. Blizzard is nothing but frustration and let downs anymore.
Seems like they are intent on destroying this game before it's even out. I thought they'd be using d3 to build onto bnet, not take steps backward. It's like they don't know people want these features and instead of fixing the issues they'd just not deal with them now and "patch later". The heart of the game is socializing, killing things, and getting items.
What's the difference? We'll all still buy it anyway, right?
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
I remember how they use to hype up battle.net 2.0. It was suppose to have "mind blowing" features. Instead it was missing basic features from the original battle.net.
I still like blizzard, a lot, but what the hell man? In my opinion, they need to replace whoever is in charge of Battle.net and rethink how they interact with their fans about works in progress.
Sadly though, they are still better than almost every other game company out there. VALVe is starting to look better and better though.
I wish I could sit in on Blizzard's meetings, just to understand what they are thinking. I think they have been making some bad decisions hiring subpar designers recently.
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
Why what? The old BNET features are now redundant. IRC style chat is no longer necessary and contradicts battletags.
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
Why what? The old BNET features are now redundant. IRC style chat is no longer necessary and contradicts battletags.
On February 07 2012 11:48 oBlade wrote: It blows my mind that companies keep creating this situation where they vacuum every grain out of the community's sandbox because the studio insists on being internet nannies. Hopefully Blizzards will be self-defeating in the long run and we can have a good industry again.
And yet you manage to find time to complain about companies you dont like when you may well be doing the same thing. Hyperbole I know, just had to say it anyway.
I personally hate the idea of Open channels, it means you spend alot of meaningless time in game.
Join a guild, play with your friends, if people have been playing so many "other" games for years and havent found like minded friends to try new games with then well yeah, sucks for you. Ive played WoW pretty hardcore for 4-5 years and I dont ever remember talking to anyone outside my guild. And I enjoyed the social aspect of it sure but I dont see why open channels were appealing there. I didnt play broodwar but war3 was pretty much the same.
Honestly if people are such vets of mmo/multiplayer they cant possibly have made NO likeminded friends to enjoy the game with. Its a weak arguement and ofcourse its a seflish opinion but Im not trying to make new D3 friends sorry, I have a community and Im going to enjoy it with them.
There has never really been an awesome broad community" if there has people always talk about it with disdain. No one ever talks about the masses in a positive tone ever, well atleast until apparantly its been taken away from them. Hell alot of the time people like to talk about the larger community even of this forum like theyre a bunch of idiots in every other thread that has some kind of difference of opinion involved, not realising ofcourse that they are apart of said community.
D3 will mean sub groups of similar players will find ways to find each other and enjoy the game together more, just for the most part like SC2. Bnet 2.0 is annoying sure but not because you cant go into random country channels and what not.
Its not the same social buzz it used to be, but its a more mature and efficient one. Theyll get it right eventually, and if they dont. Well then people have already expressed the desire to play other games.
The AH looks ok to me aswell. I feel they will only make money if they take cuts for people who buy items with actual cash (not sure if theres an ingame currency system having looked into it, but I doubt it wont exist) then well yeah they take cuts just like any other AH.
TL:DR dont really care either way, but I dont see what the fuss is about.
That's sad.The Brood War BRA-1 channel was half the fun for me.After 2-3 days you could easily idenfity the persons that were active,the clans , there was a real feel of community. Joining the gosu kr ops to get stomped. The WC3 dota channels...good times.
This new bnet stinks.I miss the old custom game list , in WC3 it was a dota fest but it still worked fine.The lack of clan support..I used to stare at the clan tags in channels all day wishing someday I would be part of that team.
Honestly I'll still buy the game just because the only blizzard game where channels didnt matter to me was D2.But I thoguht they would upgrade the current sc2 bnet , but if they are using the same philosophy in D3 I don't think the system will change.
Bnet got so much better with every game... until Sc2. Wc3 Bnet was a thing of beauty, full clan support, chat channel support, automated tournaments, ranking lists and stats. Bnet 2.0 was an abortion and Blizzard seem oblivious to the whole situation.
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
Why what? The old BNET features are now redundant. IRC style chat is no longer necessary and contradicts battletags.
people forget the value of simplicity
Simplicity in this case meaning regression.
These games were released twelve years apart and you're trying to compare them on a checklist. It's like the PC vs Mac debate, trying to compare them is useless and nonproductive because each has their own market and design.
Unless you really want to prepare a counter-argument about how typing /whisper /join every few seconds is actually more pleasurable than not, and how an [intimidating] heavy-featured game client will be better for blizzard as a company than BNET2, uh, go ahead.
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
Why what? The old BNET features are now redundant. IRC style chat is no longer necessary and contradicts battletags.
people forget the value of simplicity
Simplicity in this case meaning regression.
These games were released twelve years apart and you're trying to compare them on a checklist. It's like the PC vs Mac debate, trying to compare them is useless and nonproductive because each has their own market and design.
Unless you really want to prepare a counter-argument about how typing /whisper /join every few seconds is actually more pleasurable than not, and how an [intimidating] heavy-featured game client will be better for blizzard as a company than BNET2, uh, go ahead.
ummm ok...I dont see how comparing features is flawed at all. Games 10 years in the future SHOULD have more features because we should have more resources to provide those features. I dont understand the rationalizing of removing incredibly simple yet enjoyable things like chat channels. It boggles my mind the mental gymnastics people will go through to tell themselves that less is better when it comes to the products you buy. I'd like more for my money, thank you very much.
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: I'll play the devil's advocate, fine, whatever. The new BNET's lack of features is not due to incompetence or negligence (lol.)
Asserting that blizzard doesn't listen to it's community is also a bit silly.
But do remember that Blizz is making more intelligent business decisions than before, and as they've grown, they've had to distinguish their brand of services. There literally isn't a better way to do that than a client-server-client system.
Also, kindof related, WoW. On release in 2004, literally most of the time spent "playing" was socializing and running around the world. You couldn't really enjoy the game without making friends, that was the whole appeal. Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
Not a very good devils advocate since you refrained from even explaining why! Than again, that may be partly due to playing devils advocate on a topic where one does not even believe it, makes it a bit difficult.
I do agree with the second point about Blizzard not listening to the community. Blizzard obviously does, that does not necessarily translate over to doing as the community demands.
Why what? The old BNET features are now redundant. IRC style chat is no longer necessary and contradicts battletags.
people forget the value of simplicity
Simplicity in this case meaning regression.
These games were released twelve years apart and you're trying to compare them on a checklist. It's like the PC vs Mac debate, trying to compare them is useless and nonproductive because each has their own market and design.
Unless you really want to prepare a counter-argument about how typing /whisper /join every few seconds is actually more pleasurable than not, and how an [intimidating] heavy-featured game client will be better for blizzard as a company than BNET2, uh, go ahead.
ummm ok...I dont see how comparing features is flawed at all. Games 10 years in the future SHOULD have more features because we should have more resources to provide those features. I dont understand the rationalizing of removing incredibly simple yet enjoyable things like chat channels. It boggles my mind the mental gymnastics people will go through to tell themselves that less is better when it comes to the products you buy. I'd like more for my money, thank you very much.
Oh, I guess it's a slight misunderstanding. I don't mean "more features" is better or worse than the original BNET and I really don't mean to tell you what's good or bad. I'm saying that more features will alienate users and make BNET more difficult to use.
How can they still not understand that a major part of online gaming is bringing people together? And that a platform like Battle.net gives a great opportunity to do so? Don't they realize how much that attributed to the success of WoW and many other hugely popular games? How can they not prioritize the social aspect of online games, especially as they're emphasizing the online part more than ever with things like always-online?
I think my days of being happy about anything Blizzard does are over. If they plan on releasing another incomplete product under the veil of "the game won't ship with all the features, but sometimes later they may be implemented!" I'm not buying it this time.
On February 07 2012 13:52 Zelniq wrote: How can they not prioritize the social aspect of online games, especially as they're emphasizing the online part more than ever with things like always-online?
This is what really drives it home for me. It's not as simple as they aren't including features that are awesome, and that we're used to. It's that they're brazenly blowing smoke up our asses because none of their actions agree with the "Always Connected" PR strategies.
On February 07 2012 15:16 Flamingo777 wrote: Exactly this. I believe that Blizzard is wrongly trying to escape the topic by saying that these channels could be taken advantage of. Blizzard has the power to strictly moderate a chat, they just don't want to hire the mods who could do so.
They shouldn't need to moderate chat rooms on the internet to begin with.
On February 07 2012 13:52 Zelniq wrote: How can they still not understand that a major part of online gaming is bringing people together? And that a platform like Battle.net gives a great opportunity to do so? Don't they realize how much that attributed to the success of WoW and many other hugely popular games? How can they not prioritize the social aspect of online games, especially as they're emphasizing the online part more than ever with things like always-online?
Exactly this. I believe that Blizzard is wrongly trying to escape the topic by saying that these channels could be taken advantage of. Blizzard has the power to strictly moderate a chat, they just don't want to hire the mods who could do so.
On February 07 2012 05:59 andrewlt wrote: You have to understand, you guys are the minority. The research pretty much confirms what Blizzard is doing. Basically, the biggest demographic of multiplayer videogames, 14-25 year old males, is a complete turn off to every other demographic. It's a negative experience for everyone else. Almost every other year, I read a major study showing how the biggest stumbling block to the expansion of hardcore multiplayer games is its current player base.
WoW's player base is generally older than most games in the market nowadays, especially FPS and action games. And I still have most general chat channels turned off on most of my characters. SC2's community is even worse, just judging from in game chat.
I can definitely see more negatives than positives in allowing public chat channels. It's pretty odd that they don't have guild support, though, as many of my current and former WoW guildmates are likely to pick up this game.
The biggest demographic is the majority, not the minority
When SC2 came out without chat I was all over Bnet forums arguing in favor of chat channels. It seemed to me it would enhance my gaming experience so much since I didn't have any real life friends playing. Then when chats came out, I entered a chat room and... nothing much happened. I discussed a recent patch for a moment and that was the only time I used chat.
Don't hype over chat, guys. There isn't much in it, really.
omg. so sad they cant see how important chat rooms are. i loved idling in bw for hours just talking to whoever. i hardly play sc2 now because there's no community online
I will continue telling myself I wont be bothered.. because I am casual now and will only play with friends I already know or just play "alone" with others and not bother getting to know people. Just as in SC2.
However... SC2 lasted like 3-4 months for me then I just stopped logging in. That "welcome screen" isn't very welcoming at all tbh and I really felt lonely and crippled. The pathetic chat they introduced for SC2 is beyond crap.
Not surprised though. The bnet team and bnet development has been a lackluster to say the least.
Open channels in D3 has another thing which Blizzard doesn't want. You could have global trade channels where people trade items instead of putting them on the auction houses, specially the RMAH.
I can't help feeling that the implications on RMAH on this game is far more then just shutting down the black market of armor/weapons sold for diablo online.
Now they can have paid services: "stash increasing item drops" -> sells for $$ on RMAH "gold collecting pets" -> sells for $$ RMAH "no global chat" -> no global trading -> more RMAH activity
I hope I am wrong. I want to believe Bashiok.
I stopped logging in to SC2 because it still feels lonely. None of my friends play SC2 because they find it anti-social and exhausting. They feel like you always are competing and not having fun.
Competition is fine but between games I'd like to hangout somewhere and chat and all but I just stare at the "find match" button and eventually either play one more game or logout.
On February 07 2012 16:01 Knuppe wrote: I will continue telling myself I wont be bothered.. because I am casual now and will only play with friends I already know or just play "alone" with others and not bother getting to know people. Just as in SC2.
However... SC2 lasted like 3-4 months for me then I just stopped logging in. That "welcome screen" isn't very welcoming at all tbh and I really felt lonely and crippled. The pathetic chat they introduced for SC2 is beyond crap.
Word. I will play D3 some just as I played SC2. But the weak social interactions will probably tire me pretty soon.
I really don't know why everybody is complaining about this.
I have played WC3 and D2 for about one decade and the last thing i'd miss about those games are the open chat channels.
If you log into the game you are looking into the fl first. Then you decide to either play with your friends or join a game (searchmap/funmap in wc3/sc2 or look at the gamenames in d2).
The only time i would hang out in channels, was when i met with friends/tournament opponents in a private one.
I'm not saying that everyone feels that way... I just wanted to share my point of view and i'm really surprised that there are so many people missing the ability to hang out in channels with 1/3 bots, 1/3 guys who brag and talk trash instead of playing and 1/3 noobs searching for clans that close half a week later or begging for free stuff in D2...
Cmon guys.. obviously Bnet 0/2 was created not for communication purposes but for a simple control and gathering statistic over people who pay for their games. It is just easier to do buisness with it.
On February 07 2012 17:09 LFish wrote: I really don't know why everybody is complaining about this.
I have played WC3 and D2 for about one decade and the last thing i'd miss about those games are the open chat channels.
If you log into the game you are looking into the fl first. Then you decide to either play with your friends or join a game (searchmap/funmap in wc3/sc2 or look at the gamenames in d2).
The only time i would hang out in channels, was when i met with friends/tournament opponents in a private one.
I'm not saying that everyone feels that way... I just wanted to share my point of view and i'm really surprised that there are so many people missing the ability to hang out in channels with 1/3 bots, 1/3 guys who brag and talk trash instead of playing and 1/3 noobs searching for clans that close half a week later or begging for free stuff in D2...
You have to take the bad with the good. Open channels are the best place to meet new people without actually leaving the game to visit external communities. Battle.Net 2.0 invites you to (only) play with friends while not giving you any opportunity to actually make friends.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Lots of people bought SC2 as well. And look at how the population is declining each season.
Somehow I have the feeling that SC2 losing population has more to do with how to find games/ the ladder system rather than SC2 game itself.
And I don't want D3 to go down that road as well. I want D3 to be just as WoW where the population just grew because of how great the game/social aspects of the game was.
Just look at WoW now. When removing the "need" to interact with others in combination with making the content accessible for "everyone". You might argue that the more accessible a game is the more populare it could be but WoW just shows people are starting to jump ship.
I'm afraid that D3 a year from release will be declining just as SC2.
wow holy fuck, blizzard what happened to "release it when it's ready?" keep diablo 3 until you have a UI that doesn't embarrass your company like sc2's is doing. fuckkkkk
I think a major part of chatchannels is that they are in the game since release. I rly dont use the chatchannels in sc2, just because i didnt get used to them. I used them in all bnet-games where they were implimented since realease. I guess i wont use them in d3 if they are not available at release.
Another thing is: Does chatchannels are rly so expensive for blizzard? i mean i cant imagine taht its hard to impliment them the only reason i can think of is that they produce traffic without making the game "better" but i doubt it if u ban spambots.
i really dont think this was due to "negligence" or whatever you guys are saying... it was a business decision (which I don't agree with). When they implemented the AH it was about expanding profits, and no support for chat is exactly what they need to ensure trades only happen on AH. You're gonna tell me you're going to use d3jsp to save like 10% or however much commission blizzard takes per transaction, when the built-in AH is right there? Come on people, blizzard isn't dumb, it didn't "forget" or "misjudge" the community's voice, it just chose to go down this road because the company knows how to make money. Personally, i'm just sad to face the reality that blizzard is no longer a company with its gamers as their first priority, and will be voting with my wallet by not buying the game... sad that my journey with the Diablo legacy that started with D1 in elementary school comes to an end here, but I'll live with other things occupying my freetime
As far as having open public channels, there's far more negative to them than positive and we maintain a stance that creating an open chat environment without a social structure behind it is an invitation for moderation and support disasters. Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future.
tThe thing about diablo is that everyone i know will play it, atleast 20 people, and with that many RL friends/acquaintances playing the same game it can never be boring. What i dislike more is a 4 player cap on the server
Yes, Diablo 3 is going to end up being mediocre. Such seems to be the way of Blizzard these days. And it's not like they don't put effort into their games, they are just really stubborn about inputting basic things for some god awful reason.
Diablo 3 will also suffer from the fact that they are consistently removing features or promising features and never putting them in (such as the hardcore hall of the dead which is now "wishlist" aka never going to happen).
I seriously don't understand Blizzard. They already have the model for success... they fucking made it. Adding those features from the past and a few new features would take them a couple of weeks at most... but NOPE, need fucking facebook integration.
And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
On February 07 2012 06:05 KenNage wrote: i bought sc2 and regreted it, seems like this one will go to the same path so im not making the same mistake again (:
Says the person with over 500 posts on an sc2-related forum.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
SC2 is losing more and more players. I don't know why that is but I can only speak for myself when I say that I stopped logging in because of bnet without going through the complete list of things I don't like with it.
I expected SC2 to be like WoW, that is the population increasing over time not declining a year after release.
What made WoW was the social aspect of the game. I played so many years and thinking of what I actually did in the game it was like playing half the time and chatting the other half. The social aspects of the game were great. I got to knew a lot of people thanks to believe or not global chat/trade channels.
What will make players keep playing Diablo 3 and increasing its playerbase won't be a new set of weapons or new areas. It will be the social aspect of the game. If the game or environment will make you feel lonely like bnet with SC2 does I'm afraid D3 will not have an increasing playerbase over time. I'd say if the playerbase declines just after a year the game is quite fail.
On February 08 2012 02:53 Kmonx wrote: Blizzard changing the chat system doesn't bother me that much since there are ways to communicate(forums, skype, etc.) with people.
Why have a friends list when you can just use facebook?
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
SC2 is losing more and more players. I don't know why that is but I can only speak for myself when I say that I stopped logging in because of bnet without going through the complete list of things I don't like with it.
I expected SC2 to be like WoW, that is the population increasing over time not declining a year after release.
What made WoW was the social aspect of the game. I played so many years and thinking of what I actually did in the game it was like playing half the time and chatting the other half. The social aspects of the game were great. I got to knew a lot of people thanks to believe or not global chat/trade channels.
What will make players keep playing Diablo 3 and increasing its playerbase won't be a new set of weapons or new areas. It will be the social aspect of the game. If the game or environment will make you feel lonely like bnet with SC2 does I'm afraid D3 will not have an increasing playerbase over time. I'd say if the playerbase declines just after a year the game is quite fail.
I think you are overestimating the importance of chat channels, they are important but they are not integral. Many single player games do fine without any social aspect at all. The single player portion of D3 will most likely do just as well. How do you define success anyway? SC2 is a success of giant proportions, but it is losing players, is it a failed game after all?
You do have a valid point in that the social aspect is important in a game focused on multiplayer, but I think the majority of players will either play alone or with previous friends. I might be wrong about this but didn't most people use d2jsp or similar sites to do their socializing in D2?
Also comparing SC2 to D3 is difficult, since D3 can be played without competing. SC2 is a very competitive game and if you are not willing to compete, there isn't much content for you to enjoy. Casual bronze league games might be what they are, but they are still competitions. In D3 there will be a lot of content for the solo and/or non-competitive player to explore.
On February 07 2012 05:59 andrewlt wrote: You have to understand, you guys are the minority. The research pretty much confirms what Blizzard is doing. Basically, the biggest demographic of multiplayer videogames, 14-25 year old males, is a complete turn off to every other demographic. It's a negative experience for everyone else. Almost every other year, I read a major study showing how the biggest stumbling block to the expansion of hardcore multiplayer games is its current player base.
WoW's player base is generally older than most games in the market nowadays, especially FPS and action games. And I still have most general chat channels turned off on most of my characters. SC2's community is even worse, just judging from in game chat.
I can definitely see more negatives than positives in allowing public chat channels. It's pretty odd that they don't have guild support, though, as many of my current and former WoW guildmates are likely to pick up this game.
That's interesting if it's true. Where do you find those studies?
i wont miss public channels.. wasnt that scamming/spamming only in diablo2 ?! i played up to 2005 and i cant think of anyone i met from public channels. guild support is a must though, but im confident they will bring this in in the future.
On February 07 2012 06:05 KenNage wrote: i bought sc2 and regreted it, seems like this one will go to the same path so im not making the same mistake again (:
Says the person with over 500 posts on an sc2-related forum.
This forum predates sc2.
I agree with him completely, the new bnet made me not enjoy sc2 at all, won't be buying any blizzard games that use bnet 0.2.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
I don't think you understand. We were forced to buy SC2 and will be forced to buy Diablo 3, but the expansions will have to run under their own merit. If they don't live up to his expectations, we won't buy them, compared to the fact that we'll buy Diablo 3 even if they make almost every decision wrong. Too invested at this point not to.
And I think the same way. HotS isn't an auto-sale for me like WoL was, because I haven't been waiting for an infinite number of years. If it isn't an improvement, I won't buy it, that simple. And if they keep ignoring the social aspect of games, they won't have many people waiting around to buy it regardless, having left due to boredom.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
I don't think you understand. We were forced to buy SC2 and will be forced to buy Diablo 3, but the expansions will have to run under their own merit. If they don't live up to his expectations, we won't buy them, compared to the fact that we'll buy Diablo 3 even if they make almost every decision wrong. Too invested at this point not to.
And I think the same way. HotS isn't an auto-sale for me like WoL was, because I haven't been waiting for an infinite number of years. If it isn't an improvement, I won't buy it, that simple. And if they keep ignoring the social aspect of games, they won't have many people waiting around to buy it regardless, having left due to boredom.
Isn't it possible people could buy expansions because of the... I don't know, actual content?
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
SC2 is losing more and more players. I don't know why that is but I can only speak for myself when I say that I stopped logging in because of bnet without going through the complete list of things I don't like with it.
I expected SC2 to be like WoW, that is the population increasing over time not declining a year after release.
What made WoW was the social aspect of the game. I played so many years and thinking of what I actually did in the game it was like playing half the time and chatting the other half. The social aspects of the game were great. I got to knew a lot of people thanks to believe or not global chat/trade channels.
What will make players keep playing Diablo 3 and increasing its playerbase won't be a new set of weapons or new areas. It will be the social aspect of the game. If the game or environment will make you feel lonely like bnet with SC2 does I'm afraid D3 will not have an increasing playerbase over time. I'd say if the playerbase declines just after a year the game is quite fail.
I think you are overestimating the importance of chat channels, they are important but they are not integral. Many single player games do fine without any social aspect at all. The single player portion of D3 will most likely do just as well. How do you define success anyway? SC2 is a success of giant proportions, but it is losing players, is it a failed game after all?
You do have a valid point in that the social aspect is important in a game focused on multiplayer, but I think the majority of players will either play alone or with previous friends. I might be wrong about this but didn't most people use d2jsp or similar sites to do their socializing in D2?
Also comparing SC2 to D3 is difficult, since D3 can be played without competing. SC2 is a very competitive game and if you are not willing to compete, there isn't much content for you to enjoy. Casual bronze league games might be what they are, but they are still competitions. In D3 there will be a lot of content for the solo and/or non-competitive player to explore.
I've honestly been so utterly dissapointed with everything in Diablo 3 and most of SC2, and these are most likely the reason I stopped gaming in the first place. If I ever do some back, most likely will play GW2 or PoE, both are lightyears ahead of D3 atm.
On February 07 2012 06:05 KenNage wrote: i bought sc2 and regreted it, seems like this one will go to the same path so im not making the same mistake again (:
Says the person with over 500 posts on an sc2-related forum.
I've been here for like 8 years and I assure you, it's not because of sc2. I don't know who comes to these decisions in the blizzard conference rooms but damn, I never thought I'd see such a lackluster sequel while having the potential to be better in every single way.
It's like tuning in to watch Usain Bolt run the 100 meter sprint through the shallow end of a pool while wearing snow shoes and a straight jacket.
I do like the new Battle.net and I couldn't care less about chat channels or clan support. Seing that I will not be buggered by goldspammer or other idiots makes me happy. I do see the reason though why others might disagree.
This is pathetic, no reason for blizzard not to implement chat channels. They already have them, they just need to make the windows bigger and add moderation / access priveleges.
Yea well Id say after AH system this is the second reason why d2jsp will remain super important in D3.
Its just that RMAH will allow to trade pretty much only basic items because trading rares and now even uniques with too many variables can take literally weeks even if you already know people who might be interested, its totally unrealistic that anonymous RMAH with limited time to offer could ever be good tool for trading really interesting items.
As it goes for community, is Blizzard really saying that having it is bad thing? That there should be only closed groups of people, just like guilds or clans, with no way to meet new people? On the side note, I must say that year after year I feel more that I dont belong to thins world anymore ^^
Anyway, my point is that this is just another thing that is not going to have ingame solution... But since we are totally used to that from D2, I personally dont see such a big issue in it anymore.
I mean its not like Blizzard doesnt think its needed, they clearly said its a wrong thing to have. I could never ever agree with that, but nvm this game is made for 15 years old to last next 5 years, I cant really see myself playing it for even part of that time... So Ill just have to deal with it as it is - I mean, I dont agree with about 1/3 decissions Blizzard is making, but new generations somehow like it.
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
I don't think you understand. We were forced to buy SC2 and will be forced to buy Diablo 3, but the expansions will have to run under their own merit. If they don't live up to his expectations, we won't buy them, compared to the fact that we'll buy Diablo 3 even if they make almost every decision wrong. Too invested at this point not to..
I'm confused, how are you invested in a game that hasn't been released? If anything, I can understand being invested in HoTS because having spent a bunch of time with WoL (even though I still see that as a stretch), but on D3? How are we forced to buy anything? Is Blizz hypnotizing people or something?
On February 08 2012 01:48 ThaZenith wrote: And yet again Blizzard is broadcasting their stupidity to the world.
They're lucky that people are so invested in them/their games in the present, but they're losing a lot of future loyalty by purposely fucking over their player base.
Completely agreed. I'm not sold on SC2 expansions yet and I'm not sold on any future games after D3 (including the expansion they will obviously sell us for the same price as the game).
In the future, my purchases of Blizzard games will be judged like other games so I will be harsher. I might buy a WC4 since I like WC3 a lot more than SC but it will highly depend on if they change their approach towards their games.
I'm going to buy Diablo 3 because I've been waiting a long time for it but even then that's a bit generous of me. I'll probably end up playing GW2 in the long term.
Seriously, how can you even think like this. You are experiencing a temporary rage because blizzard are idiots, but you haven't even tried the final product, maybe not even the very small beta!
You are not sold on the D3 expansion? What parts of it do you not like? Please list specifics.
I don't think you understand. We were forced to buy SC2 and will be forced to buy Diablo 3, but the expansions will have to run under their own merit. If they don't live up to his expectations, we won't buy them, compared to the fact that we'll buy Diablo 3 even if they make almost every decision wrong. Too invested at this point not to..
I'm confused, how are you invested in a game that hasn't been released? If anything, I can understand being invested in HoTS because having spent a bunch of time with WoL (even though I still see that as a stretch), but on D3? How are we forced to buy anything? Is Blizz hypnotizing people or something?
Well kind of! We grew up with Blizz' games and we saw them getting better and better. I really liked the bnet-features of WC3. Also everytime i opened a blizzgame-package i got surprised. I was surprised when i could play starcraft with a bunch of my friends with 1 cd in a lan without swapping the disc around. I was surprised when D2 got better with almost every patch and so on.
These days i really just want to see the new graphics, meet the heroes of my youth again, see how they do and play some games. Its not like i really mind paying 60 euros for a game anymore, i will buy the sc2 expansions for sure, no matter how bad they are and even though i shouldnt.
But it makes me sad, that blizzards "suprises" these days are not the ones i expected from them. They are just not the "cool young guys making great games with features nobody else dares" anymore, they are the mainstream-establishment now.
Yeah, I miss having to search through a host of a-holes and BMing neanderthals, not to mention the spambots, in order to find a decent game on a map that I actually want to play.
As for the people who are vowing not to buy the game unless the game is made according to your exact, and admittedly faulty, conditions, good! Maybe you'll find something important to get angry about instead of what amounts to a game.
I don't really care, chat channels are just spamfests and I don't usually make friends through game chats, I usually play with m friends and if I don't I mostly don't make any type of contact. If I just enjoy playing with someone I randomly find while gaming I add him to friends list and play some more, but that's it.
I understand many people's complaints about this, in my personal case it doesn't matter. I think they're mostly just annoying. People in chat channels are childish and annoying mostly, it's almost as bad as Blizz forums, which is already disastrous.
Honestly my biggest complaint with the game is only 4players....really? Hell I can log on d2 right now "the game no one plays anymore" and find more than 7 friends to play with, just splits the community up even more.
On February 08 2012 08:36 NotSorry wrote: Honestly my biggest complaint with the game is only 4players....really? Hell I can log on d2 right now "the game no one plays anymore" and find more than 7 friends to play with, just splits the community up even more.
In terms of balance and difficulty it works. In terms of Blizzards goal for how the game ought to be played, it works. Yes, it would be nice to play with more. But we have to argue this sensibly. When you mention 8 players, why 8?
Does it benefit the current game, or the current dungeons? Does it either hinder or compliment how the game current is set up? If 8, why not 9, 10, 11..etc? Must be able to actually make arguments for why and why not we should have X amount if players. From what I have seen, Blizzard has a pretty good reason for it. Whereas the complaints against usually revoles around; it was in D2 and or that I just want to play with more of my friends.
Blizzard is not run anymore by nerds, but from professionals. Blizzard is not anymore the company you could blindly buy games from, but they still make very good games.
On February 08 2012 07:33 suspiria wrote: Yeah, I miss having to search through a host of a-holes and BMing neanderthals, not to mention the spambots, in order to find a decent game on a map that I actually want to play.
I don't think anyone suggested getting rid of Battle.net 2.0 matchmaking. Good chat and good matchmaking aren't mutually exclusive. If everyone you ever met was a neanderthal, the problem is either that you need a thicker skin, or that you weren't hooking up with the right people and finding the right channels for you. And I don't think it's helpful to pretend it's easy to find good custom games in SC2.
On February 08 2012 08:01 mordk wrote: I don't really care, chat channels are just spamfests and I don't usually make friends through game chats, I usually play with m friends and if I don't I mostly don't make any type of contact. If I just enjoy playing with someone I randomly find while gaming I add him to friends list and play some more, but that's it.
I understand many people's complaints about this, in my personal case it doesn't matter. I think they're mostly just annoying. People in chat channels are childish and annoying mostly, it's almost as bad as Blizz forums, which is already disastrous.
Exactly, also Real-ID should help keeping in touch with friends, you can actually see how much room there is in your friend's games. Also you store a list of the last x "random" people you've played with so you can easily get in contact with them again later if you want.
So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
On February 08 2012 07:33 suspiria wrote: Yeah, I miss having to search through a host of a-holes and BMing neanderthals, not to mention the spambots, in order to find a decent game on a map that I actually want to play.
I don't think anyone suggested getting rid of Battle.net 2.0 matchmaking. Good chat and good matchmaking aren't mutually exclusive. If everyone you ever met was a neanderthal, the problem is either that you need a thicker skin, or that you weren't hooking up with the right people and finding the right channels for you. And I don't think it's helpful to pretend it's easy to find good custom games in SC2.
Fair enough. It does suck not being able to find easy opponents for custom maps.
I do have thick skin. It's not that I get hurt or irritated. It's just more of a hassle (okay, I cry...a little...)
On February 08 2012 04:05 ThaZenith wrote: ...Too invested at this point not to..
I'm confused, how are you invested in a game that hasn't been released? If anything, I can understand being invested in HoTS because having spent a bunch of time with WoL (even though I still see that as a stretch), but on D3?
How are we forced to buy anything? Is Blizz hypnotizing people or something?
When I say 'invested' or 'forced', I'm not referring to their literal dictionary definitions. I shall explain for you, since you don't seem to understand.
I haven't invested any money into blizzard or the game. I haven't invested any time into the game itself. But I've invested a ton of time into following the development, and beta, and all my energy/hope in how it'll turn out. Not to mention untold years since D2 waiting for another game. Which means I'm 'forced' to buy it. I could, theoretically, in a perfect universe, decide not to buy it, but that's not happening here.
Hmm I will probably still buy this since I know enough people who are gonna be getting the game regardless. @ThaZenith, i think you mean you feel obligated to buy it because of all the time and energy invested in following D3, as well as playing D2. You're not actually forced to buy anything though...
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
No one is arguing that the actual gameplay won't be good or fun. But the social aspect of the game lacking is indeed worrying for some of us since the social aspects are as important as the actual gameplay. There is a number of times one can kill the same shit over and over again before it gets old.
I didn't login to WoW for 4 years because everyday hoping to find a new piece of armor. I logged in because it was so fun to just hangout outside of Orgrimmar and dueling, chatting in Barrens chat, chatting with guildies etc. The social aspects of WoW was great.
I didn't expect something similar for Diablo 3 but yeah, I was hoping for atleast a global chat where I could go "anyone wanna trade... anyone wanna duel...anyone looking for an arena team of wizard/monk..." or just "hey sup guys...".
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
There's nothing to "suck up". Blizzard games have thrived becaused they have always encouraged the growth of communities. Since Cataclysm and SC2, the company stance on this has apparently changed.
The social component is equally as important as good gameplay for many people. Why else would you play a multiplayer game?
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
Uhhh, if you think simply implimenting chat channels is some monumental undertaking that is trying to please everyone....then wow. Low standards galore here. And yes, when you want to talk to no one and think chat channels dont have a place in diablo 3, a game the devs are trying to do everything they can to keep connected online and with other people, ya you're a bit antisocial. There should be nothing to "suck up", you're not tough because you can live without chat channels, you're just letting blizzard off the hook because you're a fan.
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
Uhhh, if you think simply implimenting chat channels is some monumental undertaking that is trying to please everyone....then wow. Low standards galore here. And yes, when you want to talk to no one and think chat channels dont have a place in diablo 3, a game the devs are trying to do everything they can to keep connected online and with other people, ya you're a bit antisocial. There should be nothing to "suck up", you're not tough because you can live without chat channels, you're just letting blizzard off the hook because you're a fan.
implementing chat channels are not that big of a task.
but still.. if i don't care if the game has chat channels or not, don't make me antisocial at all, no matter what the devs are trying to do.. i don't care as long as i can communicate the way i feel like communicating, and with the people i feel like communicating with... and it by no way show how social i am.. Other things might make me anti social.. but not this i'm not though because i can live without them.. if i'm though its because of other things... i'm not letting blizzard of the hook because i'm a fan.. i let them off the hook becauase i dont need them to be on it.
you're just going after everyone who do not have the same fire you have because you're not getting what you want
I really dont get the whole idea of "not being social" thing and those chat channels. I never used a chat in sc2 and I will never will. I play with my friends, we gather play some 1v1 trainings, 3v3,4v4 and etc., doing smoke pauses and whatever else - toilet, beer and we continue. Why would I want some chat channels when we are on skype? So basically the same will be in D3. I just dont use this feature and I will probably never use it.
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
Uhhh, if you think simply implimenting chat channels is some monumental undertaking that is trying to please everyone....then wow. Low standards galore here. And yes, when you want to talk to no one and think chat channels dont have a place in diablo 3, a game the devs are trying to do everything they can to keep connected online and with other people, ya you're a bit antisocial. There should be nothing to "suck up", you're not tough because you can live without chat channels, you're just letting blizzard off the hook because you're a fan.
Completely unrelated to being a fan, I wouldn't care about this issue no matter the developer. I just don't usually make friends through game's chat capabilities. IMO the reason Blizz won't put chat channels in their games anymore is because they don't want to moderate them, simple as that, and they don't want the channels to turn into hell on earth with all the spam and all the idiots.
I think Blizzard should offer things like guild support and guild chat channels, a better, easier to use interface to communicate with your friends, etc, considering they just don't seem to want to add open chat channels.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
On February 08 2012 10:11 Serpico wrote: So we've established that people that are antisocial don't care about chat channels....ok. That doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. There's no feature that 100% of people will use or like unless it's a mandatory part of the game. I don't understand the "well I PERSONALLY won't use it....therefore it's fine being gone." It's close minded. It's just like the offline/online debate the game has brought up. I want everyone to get as much use and enjoyment out of the game and would love chat channels.
Calling people who dont need chat channels to make friends antisocial. Speaking of close minded. =) Keeping everyone happy is impossible and will obviously never happen. Just suck it up and give the game a whirl when it's out because knowing Blizzard it will turn out great for both casual and hardcore players in the end. Or don't, although i fail to see why one would keep actively posting about the game in that case.
Uhhh, if you think simply implimenting chat channels is some monumental undertaking that is trying to please everyone....then wow. Low standards galore here. And yes, when you want to talk to no one and think chat channels dont have a place in diablo 3, a game the devs are trying to do everything they can to keep connected online and with other people, ya you're a bit antisocial. There should be nothing to "suck up", you're not tough because you can live without chat channels, you're just letting blizzard off the hook because you're a fan.
Too true, buddy. Who says there's no single player? You login, and you're immediately confined to a concrete box with little glory sized holes in which you can talk (or "whisper" now :S) to your selective friends. This is SC2, and now D3. For a company who's sticking with the always online route, they sure are keeping limiting social potential and interaction. I know personally, this is what greatly minimized the longevity of SC2 for me.
I'll be playing with a few friends sure, but the majority of my friends when I play a virtual game are people I've met in channels. BW had more way more top amateur and mid-road teams than SC2 will ever have, solely because of the open communication concept. I mean, just look at the clan-league system we had in wgt, pgt, and iccup. It's so sad to see them going a different route... because I know many of todays young gamers will not experience the friendships and good times I had while growing up, and that was probably the biggest part of why I kept logging in everyday.
This thread makes me feel like the only person in the world that doesn't give two shits about a public chat channel...
Edit:: The last place I want to meet people is in general chat. I make friends in games, I make friends on TL, I make friends at events. I bought SC2 for both the single player and the multiplayer and I was happy with what I got. I didn't buy it so I could talk to a bunch of kids caps-locking obsenities and slurs in the general chat. I bought the game for a fun competitive experience
And D3... I will buy to have fun with real life friends. Slaying monsters, finding treasure, getting stuck at bosses.
Playing with friends from general chat makes me think of this.
On February 08 2012 22:10 SeeDLiNg wrote: This thread makes me feel like the only person in the world that doesn't give two shits about a public chat channel...
Edit:: The last place I want to meet people is in general chat. I make friends in games, I make friends on TL, I make friends at events. I bought SC2 for both the single player and the multiplayer and I was happy with what I got. I didn't buy it so I could talk to a bunch of kids caps-locking obsenities and slurs in the general chat. I bought the game for a fun competitive experience
And D3... I will buy to have fun with real life friends. Slaying monsters, finding treasure, getting stuck at bosses.
Playing with friends from general chat makes me think of this.
***forever alone picture***
lol . As long as you acknowledge that other people have made meaningful connections through chat, and that the social experience has been more for them than "kids caps-locking obscenities...". I've read quite a few posts about people who have made long-term friendships with people they've met in Brood War chatrooms. What better place to meet people who share your interests than through a gaming service?
Well anyways its disappointing to me to learn that Blizzard is back to its social engineering ways. Its kind of interesting to learn how poor of an opinion Blizzard has of the people that play their games. When I go to the general chat for SC2 streams, I see many people making the typical paranoid "troll" claims whenever someone says something they find wrong or offensive, a few crazies, some "X is OP comments"...but on the whole its quite enjoyable. There are lots of genuinely funny and smart people there (although its difficult to interact when the chat moves so quickly!)
Ultimately it would be nice to see a poll to see what the entire community thinks (not necessarily just the people who comment on forums). Are we truly a minority? Or are we the majority? If I were to guess I'd think we were the majority.
The thing is if they restrict our ability to communicate with each other they can somewhat force us to use the auction house/real money auction house. That will make them money and this whole thing is built around that. They don't give a shit, they want money. The beta feels like a console game built around matchmaking and milking the money out of their customers. (Call of duty 2012)
On February 09 2012 00:30 Glasse wrote: The thing is if they restrict our ability to communicate with each other they can somewhat force us to use the auction house/real money auction house. That will make them money and this whole thing is built around that. They don't give a shit, they want money. The beta feels like a console game built around matchmaking and milking the money out of their customers. (Call of duty 2012)
The auction house is very convenient even with chat channels. It's very tedious to go around asking people if they have the item you want, and if they want anything you have for it. Do you want to go back to the D2 style trading? (If you are/were a d2jsp user, you will still be able to in D3)
On February 08 2012 22:10 SeeDLiNg wrote: This thread makes me feel like the only person in the world that doesn't give two shits about a public chat channel...
Edit:: The last place I want to meet people is in general chat. I make friends in games, I make friends on TL, I make friends at events. I bought SC2 for both the single player and the multiplayer and I was happy with what I got. I didn't buy it so I could talk to a bunch of kids caps-locking obsenities and slurs in the general chat. I bought the game for a fun competitive experience
And D3... I will buy to have fun with real life friends. Slaying monsters, finding treasure, getting stuck at bosses.
Playing with friends from general chat makes me think of this.
You're discussing things on a forum full of people you don't know. On TL IRC people discuss games with people they don't know. Same on stream chats. Are these all foreveralones too? Surely no one here has real life friends, else they'd limit their discussions to those friends.
Chat is a tool like any other. For trading, theorycrafting, sharing knowledge about the game. I can ask for advice on a character build in chat just like I can on a forum only one is right there in the game and the other I have to tab out and find somewhere to do it. This tool isn't being improved upon, it's just being removed. The goal is not to "make friends" although you freely admit you can make friends anywhere else, so if it happens in chat why is that suddenly shameful to you? If you play with someone you met in d3 chat as opposed to a d3 public game and become friends, is that friendship forever marred?
Either you don't understand that, or you were too eager to post a foreveralone picture and remind the internet that you have friends to really understand what chat is about. Congratulations on having friends, though. That's truly remarkable
On February 09 2012 00:30 Glasse wrote: The thing is if they restrict our ability to communicate with each other they can somewhat force us to use the auction house/real money auction house. That will make them money and this whole thing is built around that. They don't give a shit, they want money. The beta feels like a console game built around matchmaking and milking the money out of their customers. (Call of duty 2012)
The auction house is very convenient even with chat channels. It's very tedious to go around asking people if they have the item you want, and if they want anything you have for it. Do you want to go back to the D2 style trading? (If you are/were a d2jsp user, you will still be able to in D3)
I am not saying it's inconvenient, but why else would they pretty much reduce the size of our stash by half and make us unable to trade without a 3rd party if it wasn't to make more money with the rmah?
On February 08 2012 02:53 Kmonx wrote: Blizzard changing the chat system doesn't bother me that much since there are ways to communicate(forums, skype, etc.) with people.
Why have a friends list when you can just use facebook?
Using facebook as your friends list is cool and all but some people don't have one, don't care to use it, or just don't play video games period.
On February 09 2012 00:30 Glasse wrote: The thing is if they restrict our ability to communicate with each other they can somewhat force us to use the auction house/real money auction house. That will make them money and this whole thing is built around that. They don't give a shit, they want money. The beta feels like a console game built around matchmaking and milking the money out of their customers. (Call of duty 2012)
The auction house is very convenient even with chat channels. It's very tedious to go around asking people if they have the item you want, and if they want anything you have for it. Do you want to go back to the D2 style trading? (If you are/were a d2jsp user, you will still be able to in D3)
I am not saying it's inconvenient, but why else would they pretty much reduce the size of our stash by half and make us unable to trade without a 3rd party if it wasn't to make more money with the rmah?
I didn't say they weren't doing it for the money. I know it's shit that they are moneygrubbing bastards these days (hi activison), but it's still an improvement, so I am welcoming it.
The stash still seems pretty big in my opinion. I'll wait and see if I am wrong before jumping to conclusions. You can also always use the the non RM auction house (AFAIK there is no real money involved at all), but right now it seems like it will be a smaller market though you never know.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
Treasure, meteors and mayhem keep me entertained for days or weeks, months at best.
Channels and social contacts keep me entertained for years; in some cases, even decades.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
Treasure, meteors and mayhem keep me entertained for days or weeks, months at best.
Channels and social contacts keep me entertained for years; in some cases, even decades.
So it's not actually the videogame itself that is important, since you get bored of it relatively quickly. It's the talking to people that you pay good money for?
Facebook is free and has a much larger playerbase than D3 will ever have, you should try that. If you want to talk about D3, you will probably find more fans of D3 on your favorite social network than you will ever find in ingame chat channels.
Some people say they shouldn't have to tab out of the game to do this, which is a fair point, but then again, how often are you both chatting and playing at the same time? Is it really that difficult to tab out while you aren't even playing? (Idling in the bnet menu is not playing)
On February 08 2012 02:53 Kmonx wrote: Blizzard changing the chat system doesn't bother me that much since there are ways to communicate(forums, skype, etc.) with people.
Why have a friends list when you can just use facebook?
Using facebook as your friends list is cool and all but some people don't have one, don't care to use it, or just don't play video games period.
Or they dont want their personal information sold. Facebook isn't really an option and it should never have to be.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
Treasure, meteors and mayhem keep me entertained for days or weeks, months at best.
Channels and social contacts keep me entertained for years; in some cases, even decades.
So it's not actually the videogame itself that is important, since you get bored of it relatively quickly. It's the talking to people that you pay good money for?
Facebook is free and has a much larger playerbase than D3 will ever have, you should try that. If you want to talk about D3, you will probably find more fans of D3 on your favorite social network than you will ever find in ingame chat channels.
Some people say they shouldn't have to tab out of the game to do this, which is a fair point, but then again, how often are you both chatting and playing at the same time? Is it really that difficult to tab out while you aren't even playing? (Idling in the bnet menu is not playing)
Yes, I only buy video games to chat with people. Look, if you're just here to provoke or to discuss nonsense, there's the door. That posts of yours is borderline trolling and you know it.
If you don't understand the importance of social aspects in gaming, read all of the UI threads that have surfaced here on TL over the last week. Read the anecdotes. Understand how a vibrant community not only creates contacts and friends, but also happy, long-term customers for a company that's investing into these details.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
Treasure, meteors and mayhem keep me entertained for days or weeks, months at best.
Channels and social contacts keep me entertained for years; in some cases, even decades.
So it's not actually the videogame itself that is important, since you get bored of it relatively quickly. It's the talking to people that you pay good money for?
Facebook is free and has a much larger playerbase than D3 will ever have, you should try that. If you want to talk about D3, you will probably find more fans of D3 on your favorite social network than you will ever find in ingame chat channels.
Some people say they shouldn't have to tab out of the game to do this, which is a fair point, but then again, how often are you both chatting and playing at the same time? Is it really that difficult to tab out while you aren't even playing? (Idling in the bnet menu is not playing)
Hope you don't plan to play the wizard. You should look up what stat point that class specializes in. How do you do it? I mean, how do you look at things so black and white?
On February 07 2012 07:35 mark05 wrote: Why do they have to keep making the same mistakes and again and again, don't they learn?
elimination of chat channels = higher profits && community complaining = irrelevant bitching and whining cuz u gonna buy the game anyway -> eliminate chat channels
Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
Okay, since you are so omnipotent perhaps you can tell me why I would want to buy this game? Because I sure as hell can't think of a reason myself.
Honestly we should start handing out bans for these kinds of posts.
"What? No chat channels? I'm not buying this game! Fuck the awesome story, boss battles and treasure hunting! Fuck the epic meteors of the sorcerer or the dual-wield mayhem of the Barb! No chat channels, no sale Blizzard, get it in your heads!"
This seems like a pretty accurate line of thinking some people here seem to have. Not targeting you specifically mind you.
Treasure, meteors and mayhem keep me entertained for days or weeks, months at best.
Channels and social contacts keep me entertained for years; in some cases, even decades.
So it's not actually the videogame itself that is important, since you get bored of it relatively quickly. It's the talking to people that you pay good money for?
Facebook is free and has a much larger playerbase than D3 will ever have, you should try that. If you want to talk about D3, you will probably find more fans of D3 on your favorite social network than you will ever find in ingame chat channels.
Some people say they shouldn't have to tab out of the game to do this, which is a fair point, but then again, how often are you both chatting and playing at the same time? Is it really that difficult to tab out while you aren't even playing? (Idling in the bnet menu is not playing)
Yes, I only buy video games to chat with people. Look, if you're just here to provoke or to discuss nonsense, there's the door. That posts of yours is borderline trolling and you know it.
If you don't understand the importance of social aspects in gaming, read all of the UI threads that have surfaced here on TL over the last week. Read the anecdotes. Understand how a vibrant community not only creates contacts and friends, but also happy, long-term customers for a company that's investing into these details.
I could say the same of your opinions. It just baffles me how much people are willing to fight for something that isn't even essential, even willing to look past the gameplay and boycott it just because it doesn't have chat channels and you tell me that I am trolling? Please...
I definitely understand the importance of socializing, since video games are best enjoyed with other people, but demanding something already existing in a VIDEO GAME isn't sane. I pay money because I want to play the game, if it has chat channels great, if it doesn't, whatever I'll just get on TL and find friends to discuss the game with, but to each his own I guess.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Well said. While SC2 & D3 both use Bnet 2.0, but other then that it makes no sense to try and compare them. As stated several times before it's like comparing apples and oranges really. Although something tells me some people simply want to disagree for the sake of it no matter what, even resorting to calling people who disagree close-minded, anti-social fansboys with low standards to justify their cause. It probably best to leave this be and agree to disagree, then patiently wait till the game is done before actually judging it. Something tells me whatever it is Blizzard will announce next will be ripped into by the angry band-wagon mob though. -_-
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Well said. While SC2 & D3 both use Bnet 2.0, but other then that it makes no sense to try and compare them. As stated several times before it's like compared apples and oranges really. Although something tells me some people simply want to disagree for the sake of it no matter what, even resorting to calling people who disagree close-minded, anti-social fansboys with low standards to justify their cause. It probably best to leave this be and agree to disagree, then patiently wait till the game is done before actually judging it. Something tells me whatever it is Blizzard will announce next will be ripped into by the angry band-wagon mob though. -_-
This is a highly subjective topic, I'll agree. Chat wasn't the same thing for everyone, and the old system wasn't perfect either. But please note that thousands of comments regarding SC2's and D3's UI elements don't just appear because some people "disagree for the sake of it".
This crowd also isn't just an "angry band-wagon mob". It's a (large) part of the respective games' fanbases passionate about their hobby and games they've grown to cherish. For them - or rather, for us - this isn't just about nostalgia, we're not glorifying a system for the sake of dusting off our pitchforks and starting a riot.
We're actually missing something in SC2 and D3. Chat, as it is in SC2 and will be in D3, is a major part of this. Please, even if you don't agree or feel the same way, realize that for some of us all these little things did indeed make the feeling of community complete, and we disagree with Blizzard's decision to scrap features for the sake of convenience.
Take a look at all of these discussions. Read the clones of the SC2 UI thread on the various official forums. By now, we're talking about thousands of users expressing their concerns. This isn't random, it's not an angry mob. It's a huge crowd of disappointed fans. You may not agree with us, which is perfectly fine. But don't dismiss or belittle us just because you don't understand our motivation.
*edit: This applies to kuresuti's reply well. Thanks for calling me "not sane", by the way. Manner much?
why change it when sc2 became so popular. they save money doing it this way. everyone bitches about sc2 but never does anything about it.
never really used d2 channels a lot. only thing it was mainly used for was trading which with their AH you don't need one anymore, and 90% of people used d2jsp in order to trade items.
i pretty much only used chat channels for botting chaos/baal runs, clans would have their own channels so you could see when it joins etc.
Yeah, I think I will not be playing D3 like some other guys said in this thread. I'm not the young kid I used to be when D2 was out, I did not intend to play it hardcore like I did back then, because of work and shit, but if you add to that the fact that you can't even make friends on the game because of a shitty Bnet, then I prefer just playing something else. There are a shitload of good games going out right now, and it's not going to stop.
Instead of telling you guys how bad your train of logic is for not playing this game because of XYZ, how about just joining the TL Diablo 3 IRC chat room when the game is out? There's a million communities out there that will support D3 that chatrooms simply are a waste of money for Blizzard (even if its easy to implement).
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
I don't know about you but most people in any game have almost no incentive or need to socialize with others. This continues in the D3 beta where the Skeleton king is so easy to kill at this point in the game that you don't need to talk to anyone to get to him or kill him, plus there is no point in not rushing it because in the end its just killing time. People are either grinding for achievements, or crafting. Nothing is challenging enough to warrant any strategy (that's probably why people are complaining about difficulty, but its just the start of Act 1 anyways).
I can understand however if you're pissed off because of this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308482 which basically says, the who SC2 experience is shortened by lack of features for custom games, viewing games, playing tournaments, ladder, and other things, so on and so forth.
As for the sharpen filter, while a great idea it also makes some graphics look worse. This may be because of rumors saying that D3 will never have higher end graphics than what you see right now.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
Not right away, but they are adding private chat channels down the line, just as they did for SC2. That's mentioned right in the OP! I don't have any problem with this.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
Not right away, but they are adding private chat channels down the line, just as they did for SC2. That's mentioned right in the OP! I don't have any problem with this.
I do, it was a mistake in sc2 and it's a mistake here too!
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
My worry is not the lack of public channels. I mean, who actually uses them? My worry is that since there wont be public channels, there wont be good support for chat in general. the simple addition of a central command line to type commands at like /f l would have made such a difference in sc2.
Not having chat period in the game at launch is the issue, public chat channels are not vital but are fun sometimes. I want to be able to barter inside the game conveniently if I have a group of friends that have things I want since I will be playing with a couple people. I don't want to have to use gold or real money for every transaction. I still havent seen good reason for not having ANY chat channels at release when this is something they dealt with in SC 2. It's like they had a problem bite them in the ass in the form of people constantly bugging them about chat, then turn around and tell us it isnt a priority as if people haven't asked for it before in another game. This one might need it more because of the potential for bartering.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
Not right away, but they are adding private chat channels down the line, just as they did for SC2. That's mentioned right in the OP! I don't have any problem with this.
I must have missed something because I have never noticed private channels in SC2.
Or you call private those things anyone can invite you to, anyone can join, anyone can spam or abuse and nobody can moderate? That would explain it ^^
Soooooo... hey everyone. How's it going? Good? Weather ok? Great... so, right... You know how sometimes you say something that's stupid and wrong and then people very reasonably get upset and create a lot of threads and discussions and demands with some pretty reasonable reasons for the thing you said wouldn't happen but then it turns out that you're stupid and wrong and the things you said are completely the opposite of what's actually true?
Yeah. So that happened. Public chat channels will be in Diablo III, barring any catastrophe that requires we remove them, because they're already implemented. In fact they'll be in an upcoming beta patch so you'll get to see and play around with them yourselves.
I'm not sure I can offer any explanation as to the incorrectness of my statements, except that I believed them to be correct when I made them. I apologize, and I'll strive to not be stupid and wrong in the future.
More info on the chat feature, and others, to come in the weeks ahead. Thanks for sticking with it, and me.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
Not right away, but they are adding private chat channels down the line, just as they did for SC2. That's mentioned right in the OP! I don't have any problem with this.
I must have missed something because I have never noticed private channels in SC2.
Or you call private those things anyone can invite you to, anyone can join, anyone can spam or abuse and nobody can moderate? That would explain it ^^
hahaha. Wow, what a jaded retort =] I can take or leave channel moderation most of the time, since often it's not needed, but of course there are a number of situations where it would have been nice to have but the functionality just isn't there. The channel invite auto-join thing is pretty annoying as well, thankfully I haven't seen that abused in a long time.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
I could care less about public channels tbh, there won't be ANY KIND OF CHAT outside of match making games is what i care about.
Not right away, but they are adding private chat channels down the line, just as they did for SC2. That's mentioned right in the OP! I don't have any problem with this.
I must have missed something because I have never noticed private channels in SC2.
Or you call private those things anyone can invite you to, anyone can join, anyone can spam or abuse and nobody can moderate? That would explain it ^^
hahaha. Wow, what a jaded retort =] I can take or leave channel moderation most of the time, since often it's not needed, but of course there are a number of situations where it would have been nice to have but the functionality just isn't there. The channel invite auto-join thing is pretty annoying as well, thankfully I haven't seen that abused in a long time.
Well the point is that just like you would never call "private" house or party if anyone could come and do whatever he likes yet owner/organizer could not say a word or ban him - just like that channel without rules or moderation simply is NOT private no matter what. There is no sense calling it so.
I personally like country chat channels and I often go there looking for players to play StarJeweled or Star Strikers.
An about moderation and how is it often not needed... perhaps. Just like most people dont need law saying "dont kill other human beeing or you will be punished" since they wouldnt do it even without it, but that doesnt mean we can have lawless society ^^
SC2 explamples where lack of moderation is serious issue are: progamers chats (I have seen solution naming them something like "."@[]##ˇˇ^^˘°*/-**//€]]][[\|´´ů§.""!!%ˇ08^˘°˛°°°°.,ů§ú-§ů!!)úˇ" because thats too long to read from stream and frankly kinda hard to recognize anyway - but isnt it lame?); clan chats; higher level team games chats etc.
To summarize what I think I really do believe country open chats are good thing to start with when you are new player and that private channels are really needed. Right now, unfortunatelly, SC2 or rather B.net 2.0 doesnt have any of these 2, so I dont like it. I dont really see it as a such a big problem though, Ill simply stay on d2jsp I dont think Ill have any other choice thanks to how is AH working anyway.
Really didn't see that one coming. Great to see the D3 team aknowledge the importance of social aspects of the game.
Can't really believe some people in this thread jumping right away on defending Blizzard on potentially removing global chat channels.
There will always be things that can be exploited. The solution is not "hey, lets remove it and say that sometime in the future we will come up with an alternative way of doing it correctly. Expect information soon = maybe in a couple of years".
None of my friends play D3. The global chat will definetely be somewhere I hangout, talk to the community (in real time so don't suggest forums thank you), maybe trade but most often try to find arena teams/ duelers.
I could see where chat would be helpful in trading (until I found d2jsp). In D2, I've always met friends while questing, not from chat channels, so it wouldn't bother me if they stayed out.
If they remove chat from games, then I'll freak out.
Why I like to have public channels is because when I'm with friends on Bnet (sc:BW or War3) we always hang around in a channel an gather there after games. It's convenience
Soooooo... hey everyone. How's it going? Good? Weather ok? Great... so, right... You know how sometimes you say something that's stupid and wrong and then people very reasonably get upset and create a lot of threads and discussions and demands with some pretty reasonable reasons for the thing you said wouldn't happen but then it turns out that you're stupid and wrong and the things you said are completely the opposite of what's actually true?
Yeah. So that happened. Public chat channels will be in Diablo III, barring any catastrophe that requires we remove them, because they're already implemented. In fact they'll be in an upcoming beta patch so you'll get to see and play around with them yourselves.
I'm not sure I can offer any explanation as to the incorrectness of my statements, except that I believed them to be correct when I made them. I apologize, and I'll strive to not be stupid and wrong in the future.
More info on the chat feature, and others, to come in the weeks ahead. Thanks for sticking with it, and me.
you know i don't see a sort of urgency for the communicating aspect anymore. i've been playing these games (including d2) for so long, that i feel that i've matured as a gamer and have already found the sort of friends that i'll mostly be playing with. I was always into pick-up-groups and guild-chat or w/e, but never into general chat.
These days, we have things like vent or skype which i feel can be perfect for a group of players that are more into VOIP. honestly, we're(players like myself) not 12-18 anymore and not naive to the point that we need to find some sort of company to make things worthwhile. The magic of the game is that you're experiencing the same things as the other players within the same game----how you choose to discuss it all and to organize a game with a stranger can be part of the magic too.
i DONT feel that it all comes down to having some general or preset chats. it may be backwards, but i atleast feel a sort of convenience taken away, and that it's more in -my- hands to make something happen if i really want it to. Honestly, when it comes to a game where i'll be experiencing something (like having to level up fresh characters through the same ways) i won't be thankful that it's made less convenient, but i'm not going to be playing as much as i was when was 13, or 15 back when d2 was a craze, i will be playing to the convenience of other people's schedules---including work, school, and my friends who have their own schedules as well.
absolutely not a factor to me anymore. there are always better ways to communicating in your own way to others. i remember playing with one friend, talking to them by having a corded phone sandwiched between shoulder and cheek for hours and hours. -That- was actually funny and fun to me.
Honestly I was somewhat excited for D3 when the beta FIRST started and then when people were streaming, but after the delays I was like "meh, I'll probably buy it" but now I'm 90% certain I'm done with Blizzard games, now I'll still probably watch SC because it's SC, but I honestly don't see me buying anymore of their games (coming from a guy who has literally played every single game they released from WC1 to SC2 and WoW) unless their new MMO (if it ever happens) is baller as fuck. It seems Blizzard is changing, and not for the good. Other companies are becoming more and more open with the community, I've seen official representatives from other games post on reddit about balancing and actually responding with "yes we're aware shit's not perfect, we're trying", but Blizzard "Oh yes, we're aware you want chat and LAN, but you see, the thing is, we don't give a fuck."
This shit will only will still happen until blizzard gets a drop in sales, i say.. everyone dont buy or wait at least 1 month to buy, and they will fix shit asap. Its like WoW, if everyone refused to pay, WoW would be a free MMO like all others. We gamers are allowing this. This needs to change. 1 person can change!
On February 12 2012 21:38 Lesrah wrote: This shit will only will still happen until blizzard gets a drop in sales, i say.. everyone dont buy or wait at least 1 month to buy, and they will fix shit asap. Its like WoW, if everyone refused to pay, WoW would be a free MMO like all others. We gamers are allowing this. This needs to change. 1 person can change!
Just as shithead bobby kotick would say "we are going to exploit and abuse all gamers selling them sequels of whatever we make no matter of quality, because thats what they simply do".
And he is right. For next couple years people exploit, abuse and drill all money from rain forrests, gamers etc. and it will work. But, trees and hardcore fans are eventually going to disappear. And new tiny trees or new casual fans/gamers coming to industry will not work the same way.
On February 12 2012 21:38 Lesrah wrote: This shit will only will still happen until blizzard gets a drop in sales, i say.. everyone dont buy or wait at least 1 month to buy, and they will fix shit asap. Its like WoW, if everyone refused to pay, WoW would be a free MMO like all others. We gamers are allowing this. This needs to change. 1 person can change!
Just as shithead bobby kotick would say "we are going to exploit and abuse all gamers selling them sequels of whatever we make no matter of quality, because thats what they simply do".
And he is right. For next couple years people exploit, abuse and drill all money from rain forrests, gamers etc. and it will work. But, trees and hardcore fans are eventually going to disappear. And new tiny trees or new casual fans/gamers coming to industry will not work the same way.
I agree, partly. But there will always be hardcore fans, and there will always be new and better companies striving to make the best game possible. I think of Blizzard as a company in their later years of the cycle. They don't work as hard, make lots of money, but sooner or later a bright-eyed up and comer will take their place.
If Blizzard had really changed like you guys are so boldly claiming then D3 and HotS would've already been released. WC4 would be released within the year and MoP would be incoming.
Blizzard hasn't changed. People have. They like to complain more than they used to.
I spent so much time in channels with people on diablo 2. It was great making friends to play with, trade with, or just form groups to better ourselves! I made great D2 friends who hooked me up with awesome items through simply chatting with them...
I love the bartering system, despite the massive spamming.
Oh god, why the hell does blizzard hate us so much...
I held off buying SC2 and I'm glad I never wasted my money. I hope Diablo 3 doesn't become the same situation.
I honestly never use public chat channels unless im looking for something very specific.. I mean if you look at D2 its just spam bots in them and if they see you, you get bombarded by private messages.. Not at all fun. Meh i could care less if theres a public chat system.. As long as i can chat with ym friends and sell my stuff and talk to ppl im in game with.. all good! Oh and for those that dont know, theres a tab where you can see the names of people you recently played with as well so you can message them directly or rejoin their public game.. kinda neat addition which not many ppl have talked about..
On February 07 2012 17:10 pampelmus wrote: LOL to all the people here threatening not to buy the game. You will buy it, and you know that too.
pffft I won't. Just like I refused to buy the crap SC2 was when blizzard released it, Diablo 3 won't get my money. Maybe I'll just pay to play Star Wars Old Republic, which I have been holding off on in anticipation of D3... but with the shit blizzard is pulling again, fuck that.
Blizzard has lost all credibility in my eyes. Nothing but greedy cocksuckers. I love the trade system in D2, and how it would fluctuate depending on when and where you were looking. With global market, it reminds me of goddamn maplestory econ, No thank you. I love the organic feel of being FORCED tO BE ONLINE WHILE TRADING. you could find great deals beccause someone wanted to unload something quick to buy something else, or wait for bargains or some noob selling an item for way cheap. With the stupid no chat channels and forced to use their trading system... no. Fuck you blizzard, you won't ever get any more business from me.
On February 23 2012 02:44 NostalgiaTag wrote: I honestly never use public chat channels unless im looking for something very specific.. I mean if you look at D2 its just spam bots in them and if they see you, you get bombarded by private messages.. Not at all fun. Meh i could care less if theres a public chat system.. As long as i can chat with ym friends and sell my stuff and talk to ppl im in game with.. all good! Oh and for those that dont know, theres a tab where you can see the names of people you recently played with as well so you can message them directly or rejoin their public game.. kinda neat addition which not many ppl have talked about..
Did you play D2 before the bots became a major issue? It was quite awesome.
I really only used chat channels in the early days for trading. When I play D2 now its pretty much just following Baal/Chaos run bots. So, I guess they arn't really needed.
On February 23 2012 14:10 RifleCow wrote: I really only used chat channels in the early days for trading. When I play D2 now its pretty much just following Baal/Chaos run bots. So, I guess they arn't really needed.
since riflecow didn't use them, therefore they arent needed
I decided to buy it as i feel i have to try it after so so many hours spent playing D1 and D2. If it sucks, i will be done with Blizzard. Seriously they are messing everything up.
The chat channels aren't the thing i am really worried about as i am sure you can make friends in actual game and also many of my friends will play it. I am worried about the trend of Blizzard simplyfying shit that even newborn could play it. I am worried that the game will be easier compared to d1 and d2 and i am worried the development of skills related to your level and gear you are wearing will not be done properly. I mean at the beginning of D2 i died countless times until i figured out how to play each character, how to beat certain boss. Maybe i am being a little masochist, but i loved the moments when i found out my level 35 or higher character is useless and i started all over again playing much smarter and expereienced from previous mistakes. Also it seems to me that all characters and spells are based on the same fundaments, only difference is mana/fury and the effect of the spell or animation of the attack. I also don't like the save points, Come on....starting naked in town was the best feature of previous Diablo. Buying the basic crap and go hunt your stuff back was which made it fun and exciting.
On February 23 2012 02:44 NostalgiaTag wrote: I honestly never use public chat channels unless im looking for something very specific.. I mean if you look at D2 its just spam bots in them and if they see you, you get bombarded by private messages.. Not at all fun. Meh i could care less if theres a public chat system.. As long as i can chat with ym friends and sell my stuff and talk to ppl im in game with.. all good! Oh and for those that dont know, theres a tab where you can see the names of people you recently played with as well so you can message them directly or rejoin their public game.. kinda neat addition which not many ppl have talked about..
Did you play D2 before the bots became a major issue? It was quite awesome.
This! The chats in D2 prebots were amazing! Random stupid arguments, finding people to trade/run you to hell etc. I loved hanging out in useast... And since with the way the game works now, unless people want to drop thousands of dollars, you're not going to get spam bots.... I don't see any real downside to public chats?
On March 21 2012 21:29 Ricjames wrote: I decided to buy it as i feel i have to try it after so so many hours spent playing D1 and D2. If it sucks, i will be done with Blizzard. Seriously they are messing everything up.
The chat channels aren't the thing i am really worried about as i am sure you can make friends in actual game and also many of my friends will play it. I am worried about the trend of Blizzard simplyfying shit that even newborn could play it. I am worried that the game will be easier compared to d1 and d2 and i am worried the development of skills related to your level and gear you are wearing will not be done properly. I mean at the beginning of D2 i died countless times until i figured out how to play each character, how to beat certain boss. Maybe i am being a little masochist, but i loved the moments when i found out my level 35 or higher character is useless and i started all over again playing much smarter and expereienced from previous mistakes. Also it seems to me that all characters and spells are based on the same fundaments, only difference is mana/fury and the effect of the spell or animation of the attack. I also don't like the save points, Come on....starting naked in town was the best feature of previous Diablo. Buying the basic crap and go hunt your stuff back was which made it fun and exciting.
Wait... they added save points? Sorry I have been avoiding most of the beta and development so I could be surprised when I buy it. Save points? You've got to be joking....
And I agree with almost everything you say, I remember vividly, my level 38 barb was almost all of a sudden useless! Was like fuck... exit, delete, new char. I spent about 10 years of my life with diablo 1-2. It's going to hurt inside, a lot if blizz fucks up D3
What I find annoying is when Blizzard states shit like "we noticed that having chats in D2 was a problem, so we wont have them anymore" but there's never any good reasoning behind their statements.
Sc2 chat channels are fine for d3. I have sc2 join teamliquid chat channel and startup and it matches anything bw and d2 bnet could offer and then some.
On March 22 2012 23:39 Animzor wrote: What I find annoying is when Blizzard states shit like "we noticed that having chats in D2 was a problem, so we wont have them anymore" but there's never any good reasoning behind their statements.
On March 22 2012 23:47 xavra41 wrote: Sc2 chat channels are fine for d3. I have sc2 join teamliquid chat channel and startup and it matches anything bw and d2 bnet could offer and then some.
Except the current D3 chat channel support is much worse than SC2's. If you don't have beta access you could e.g. read what I posted yesterday regarding the current D3 chat channel features in "UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care?" thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308482¤tpage=79#1572
On March 22 2012 23:39 Animzor wrote: What I find annoying is when Blizzard states shit like "we noticed that having chats in D2 was a problem, so we wont have them anymore" but there's never any good reasoning behind their statements.
I think it's more likely that they wanted to cut the chat channels as their current implementation is not commercial quality and they don't have development resources to improve chat features before launch (development resources available are assigned to something more critical).
Originally Bashiok stated that there were chat channel implementation already in September 2011. Early this year their statement changed to that there is no chat channel implementation or plans for it. After community pressure they suddenly 'remembered' that they had implementation for chat channels already done and integrated it into beta.
I think you wont be able to create named games like in d2 (every b.net 1 game). And that is huge for me. I think it was most important for d2 then wc3 or bw.
My desire to buy Diablo III has been steadily going down thanks to the disaster that is BNet 0.2. I'm honestly sitting on the fence on ordering it or not.
I think I might just end up pirating a blizzard game for the first time in my life, probably won't notice much difference between it and their 'online' version anyway.
On March 22 2012 23:47 xavra41 wrote: Sc2 chat channels are fine for d3. I have sc2 join teamliquid chat channel and startup and it matches anything bw and d2 bnet could offer and then some.
Except the current D3 chat channel support is much worse than SC2's. If you don't have beta access you could e.g. read what I posted yesterday regarding the current D3 chat channel features in "UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care?" thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308482¤tpage=79#1572
Oh I didn't know that because i have played the beta and it looked the same to me but I didn't use it. They did have trade channels if i remember which would solve his problem. You gotta meet blizz half way and try to make it work imo
On March 23 2012 03:59 Roflhaxx wrote: I think I might just end up pirating a blizzard game for the first time in my life, probably won't notice much difference between it and their 'online' version anyway.
You probably won't miss much if anything since it's a single player game with an multiplayer option
Im glad there getting us a BETTER core game cuz of this. I dont need these features right away and the game really just needs to be played, now. It will be a little lonely but with the way they implemented chat channels in sc2 didnt change things. We need a d2 type chat experience. One with our charasters are in the bottom so we can feel represented in chat properly. think that system is gonna happen in the future. So im glad to see it implemented in future and not be out on release. It just takes more TIME! F that. Bliz knows what there doing we, obviously, LOVE starcraft and they made that game too!
One of the best parts of BW, WC3 and TFT were the chat rooms and clan chats. I find playing sc2 is like playing single player because all I do is play with randoms, so they might as well be computers. They need to bring the social aspect back D:
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the social aspects in a game are just as bad as out of game in Diablo 3. I've found that most players don't talk in game. But, with the new in game chat system being a little chat box, it's nearly impossible to read what another player says when they do talk. The little chat box gets spammed so fast with game dialogue / check point information / level up info that you barely get a chance to see what they said.
Here's an example where I scrolled up a bit so you could see what I said right before the spam began...
Reading things in that chat box during game play is ridiculous and personally I miss the Diablo 2 in game chat.
Jesus fing christ why do I keep reading bad stuff about what was supposed to be the best game ever? And I mean the whole community seems to have more fun criticising the game that isnt even out yet than anything else. At this point, basicly ANYTHING is a good reason not to buy the game. wtf?
On March 23 2012 06:20 baba1 wrote: Jesus fing christ why do I keep reading bad stuff about what was supposed to be the best game ever? And I mean the whole community seems to have more fun criticising the game that isnt even out yet than anything else. At this point, basicly ANYTHING is a good reason not to buy the game. wtf?
We ran out of good stuff a few months ago, now we are criticizing the bad in hope that blizzard will take notice and do something about improving them.
Just because you criticize something doesn't mean you have to hate it, just that you want it to be better
On March 23 2012 06:20 baba1 wrote: Jesus fing christ why do I keep reading bad stuff about what was supposed to be the best game ever? And I mean the whole community seems to have more fun criticising the game that isnt even out yet than anything else. At this point, basicly ANYTHING is a good reason not to buy the game. wtf?
The game itself is promising. But its Bnet portion is another story...
On March 23 2012 06:20 baba1 wrote: Jesus fing christ why do I keep reading bad stuff about what was supposed to be the best game ever? And I mean the whole community seems to have more fun criticising the game that isnt even out yet than anything else. At this point, basicly ANYTHING is a good reason not to buy the game. wtf?
Well, when you have over a decade to get used to every single detail of a game and fall in love with each and every one, every deviation in the next game stands out like a sore thumb. A few of my friends were talking about d3 and the new UI, etc, recently and one of the first things someone asked: "Is there still a gem to activate?" 100% irrelevant aspect to the game that somebody (and probably multiple people) really want to see just for the nostalgia to keep it like d2.
On March 23 2012 06:20 baba1 wrote: Jesus fing christ why do I keep reading bad stuff about what was supposed to be the best game ever? And I mean the whole community seems to have more fun criticising the game that isnt even out yet than anything else. At this point, basicly ANYTHING is a good reason not to buy the game. wtf?
The best RPG ever is gonna come out again, sometime in summer :D
I don't understand what they're so afraid of with chat channels in B.Net.
From what I see, blizzard gamers and the communities in general are the best of any gaming community in terms of maturity and constructive talking. Even the B.Net general forums, despite what many people on TL may say, are several steps above any other gaming forum i've seen.
The community as a whole is asking for open chat channels. I haven't met a single gamer who says otherwise. Just give them to us! Or give us an extraordinarily articulate reason as to why "[we] really don't want them."
If D3 B.Net is not noticeably improved from what it is in SC2, I really don't see myself playing D3 very long after release. Social is everything in online gaming, and, through their actions, Blizzard is actively trying to fail it's customers and community.
On March 23 2012 08:18 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: I don't understand what they're so afraid of with chat channels in B.Net.
From what I see, blizzard gamers and the communities in general are the best of any gaming community in terms of maturity and constructive talking. Even the B.Net general forums, despite what many people on TL may say, are several steps above any other gaming forum i've seen.
The community as a whole is asking for open chat channels. I haven't met a single gamer who says otherwise. Just give them to us! Or give us an extraordinarily articulate reason as to why "[we] really don't want them."
If D3 B.Net is not noticeably improved from what it is in SC2, I really don't see myself playing D3 very long after release. Social is everything in online gaming, and, through their actions, Blizzard is actively trying to fail it's customers and community.
I disagree, people get the wrong idea of blizzard gaming community because of how good the mods on TL keep out the trash. The average blizzard game fan is no different than your basic COD/Halo fanboi, in many cases they are one and the same, but I agree with the rest of your post. Blizzard's PR is getting worse everyday.
B.net is fine. 2.0 is far from as bad as *some* people make it out to be. And old B.net is far from as good as those same people make it out to be (especially).
On March 23 2012 11:14 oxxo wrote: B.net is fine. 2.0 is far from as bad as *some* people make it out to be. And old B.net is far from as good as those same people make it out to be (especially).
Do you see "bnet 2.0" as an upgrade or a downgrade from it's ~14year old predecessor
On February 07 2012 11:52 jimmyjingle wrote: Today in 2012, you can defeat the end boss without talking to a single person.
This This This This This. I remember talking to one of my friends how to make WoW decent again:
- No flying mounts. - No dungeon finder. - No raid finder. - No achievements. - Increased difficulty of dungeons. (The way they are now is a bad joke) - No heirlooms. - Pvp rewards are much more difficult to get. - Arena system completely revamped again, only the best players should be able to get the best gear. - Bigger rewards to exploring, grouping and World PvP.
Although guild chat would be kind of nice I'm really not worried about it for release or ever. Ive found plenty of good friends in both DII and SC2 with out your silly guild support.
Why not just put them in and let the players have the option to use them or not? It's hard to believe they can't integrate it especially since SC2 already ironed out most of the technical kinks.
The real question though is which game will get guild/clan support first?
Battle.net 2.0 is badly designed on so many levels. Warcraft3 battle.net is the best one they made so far except it has crazy delay and hackers. Starcraft2 battle.net sucks because they tried too hard to appeal to casual gamers without really understanding how gamers feel about their game.
I mean, why does Blizzard spend time making a patch to make losses invisible to people below master league? Don't they deserve to know where they stand, and see their improvements as master players do? Do they honestly think that hiding the losses in their record encourages them to continue playing?
It's just one example. Another one is Facebook integration. Everyone has FB but that doesn't mean they're willing to integrate them with Battle.net. I mean, what incentives are there to do that? So that your non-gaming FB friends know you play a video game? Instead, what they should have included is clan support.
And it's nearly impossible to whisper to people not on your friends list. Really? Battle.net 2.0 reminds me too much of XBox LIVE. Well, this is PC gaming. The major difference is that PC gamers have access to their full keyboards. Just add a common command like /w and the problem would be solved. But Blizzard is, for some odd reason, too scared to deviate from the current model, which is designed by people who worked on XBox LIVE. Why would they do that? Because they lost their touch with gamers
On March 23 2012 12:41 NeMaTo wrote: Battle.net 2.0 is badly designed on so many levels. Warcraft3 battle.net is the best one they made so far except it has crazy delay and hackers. Starcraft2 battle.net sucks because they tried too hard to appeal to casual gamers without really understanding how gamers feel about their game.
I mean, why does Blizzard spend time making a patch to make losses invisible to people below master league? Don't they deserve to know where they stand, and see their improvements as master players do? Do they honestly think that hiding the losses in their record encourages them to continue playing?
It's just one example. Another one is Facebook integration. Everyone has FB but that doesn't mean they're willing to integrate them with Battle.net. I mean, what incentives are there to do that? So that your non-gaming FB friends know you play a video game? Instead, what they should have included is clan support.
And it's nearly impossible to whisper to people not on your friends list. Really? Battle.net 2.0 reminds me too much of XBox LIVE. Well, this is PC gaming. The major difference is that PC gamers have access to their full keyboards. Just add a common command like /w and the problem would be solved. But Blizzard is, for some odd reason, too scared to deviate from the current model, which is designed by people who worked on XBox LIVE. Why would they do that? Because they lost their touch with gamers
Just reminded me how friend lists in diablo 2 were just giant chat rooms with /f m command . I agree they should have common whisper commands like they have in wow where I can just type /w (friend who isn't in the game)
duh? all blizz games are going this way... just as all other mainstream games are heading in this direction.. once companies get so big they strictly focus on profits. that = fail
On March 22 2012 23:39 Animzor wrote: What I find annoying is when Blizzard states shit like "we noticed that having chats in D2 was a problem, so we wont have them anymore" but there's never any good reasoning behind their statements.
On March 23 2012 08:18 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: I don't understand what they're so afraid of with chat channels in B.Net.
From what I see, blizzard gamers and the communities in general are the best of any gaming community in terms of maturity and constructive talking. Even the B.Net general forums, despite what many people on TL may say, are several steps above any other gaming forum i've seen.
The community as a whole is asking for open chat channels. I haven't met a single gamer who says otherwise. Just give them to us! Or give us an extraordinarily articulate reason as to why "[we] really don't want them."
If D3 B.Net is not noticeably improved from what it is in SC2, I really don't see myself playing D3 very long after release. Social is everything in online gaming, and, through their actions, Blizzard is actively trying to fail it's customers and community.
Done for entirely economic reasons. They probably crunched the numbers and figured they'd they'd save millions in sever costs by cutting chat. As I see it, Act/Blizzard is milking their brands for everything their worth over the short term. I doubt the brand will command as much resepct in 10 years.
Wtf.....I wasent even that mad about no lan/clan/chat channels when ppl were bitching about that in sc2. But d3 is a completely social game. Holy fuck how dumb can they possible be. A big reason sc2 isnt that popular is because u feel like ur the only god damn person online somtimes lol. Wow this is just so dumb
Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
They dont want you to trade, they want you to use RMAH to sell/buy your items
Seriously I'm not sure why they are making this with SC2 and now D3... it makes almost no sense. This is easy to do and I don't see the economic problem for them (direct or inderect costs). The cost is very small for chats and the benefit in terms of clientele satisfaction is probably worth this small cost.
Really I just don't know. I'll still play since I have many friends that will play it, but I agree it is a shame and for this one thing (compared to RMAH) they cannot justify why they dont do it, my bet is a shameful reason that they purposely hide from the public.
Annnnnnnnd this is why I won't buy D3 until they add some more/better features in. No PvP or chat channels, these were seriously what kept me hooking on D2.
It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone?
Of all features of d2 chat channels was the most useless for me to a point of being annoying and irritating. It was a place were teen players were bitching about stuff using more abbreviations than words and were spam bots made any activity a hell. I praise blizzard for kicking open chat channels out. They were discouraging.
On March 26 2012 16:27 nimdil wrote: Of all features of d2 chat channels was the most useless for me to a point of being annoying and irritating. It was a place were teen players were bitching about stuff using more abbreviations than words and were spam bots made any activity a hell. I praise blizzard for kicking open chat channels out. They were discouraging.
you dont have to join them.................. and its not like bots cannot be prevented by blizzard.
i dislike the direction blizzard is taking with new games. why would they change stuff that was awesome in the old games?!
On March 26 2012 16:27 nimdil wrote: Of all features of d2 chat channels was the most useless for me to a point of being annoying and irritating. It was a place were teen players were bitching about stuff using more abbreviations than words and were spam bots made any activity a hell. I praise blizzard for kicking open chat channels out. They were discouraging.
you dont have to join them.................. and its not like bots cannot be prevented by blizzard.
Fighting bots is an endless fight - one that requires constant work = cost. Plus the open chat made the whole D2 design "dirty" imho. I can't really understand why you can't use chat outside the game in various D3 communities which - no doubt here - appear on the internet? Plus nobody is complaining there is no central "facebook" chat. I can't imagine why D3 should have one.
On March 26 2012 16:27 nimdil wrote: Of all features of d2 chat channels was the most useless for me to a point of being annoying and irritating. It was a place were teen players were bitching about stuff using more abbreviations than words and were spam bots made any activity a hell. I praise blizzard for kicking open chat channels out. They were discouraging.
you dont have to join them.................. and its not like bots cannot be prevented by blizzard.
i dislike the direction blizzard is taking with new games. why would they change stuff that was awesome in the old games?!
Because a lot of modern day games do not have great synergy with old school mechanics (like ui's.) Also, the old school games are looked upon with rose tinted glasses. With a nostalgia look, us being younger, etc. sort of influence our perspective. Which is why Diablo II chat channels were nice and all, but they became very mundane and not really that spectacular. With the current mechanics in the game (how we view other people's characters, our own, party members), it would be a lot of the exact same.
I recently got into the Dota 2 beta, and I was totally blown away by what I saw, it was amazing. Everything you wanted was in one screen and presented in a very nice way. Chat channels, personal skill level, friends, game selection,stats etc.
And whats more they also promote the e-sport aspect of it by constantly tellling you what matches are on, and which pro's are playing. it was really well done(it does have a lot of bugs currently, but it's beta for a reason).
After a while I realized that it was basically the war3 interface with some nice tweaks. Going back to sc2,I realized how much more they could've done to the ui. You can even watch whole pro-matches from the dota 2 game. I think they made a mistake in using a console UI designer. It's a little bit sad to see because it is blizzards original design made better, while blizzards current designs going backwards.
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
Actually fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
Actually fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
No shame in being conned once.
Can someone explain me what's wrong with social aspects of Starcraft 2, because I'm not getting it?
It is sad that Bnet takes the wrong direction. luckily I already have a lot of friends that will be playing the game togheter with me but for people that doesn't have any d3 friends before it is released is going to have to use some website to find friends to play with
I recently got into the Dota 2 beta, and I was totally blown away by what I saw, it was amazing. Everything you wanted was in one screen and presented in a very nice way. Chat channels, personal skill level, friends, game selection,stats etc.
And whats more they also promote the e-sport aspect of it by constantly tellling you what matches are on, and which pro's are playing. it was really well done(it does have a lot of bugs currently, but it's beta for a reason).
After a while I realized that it was basically the war3 interface with some nice tweaks. Going back to sc2,I realized how much more they could've done to the ui. You can even watch whole pro-matches from the dota 2 game. I think they made a mistake in using a console UI designer. It's a little bit sad to see because it is blizzards original design made better, while blizzards current designs going backwards.
Same here. Dota2 interface is what sc2 should've had
I feel like none of you people even played Diablo 2 in its prime. You say you want chat channels so you can trade items? Obviously you don't remember the 30+ spam bots per item trade channel making it literally impossible to sell/buy anything at all. Just use d2jsp like every other serious player.
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
Actually fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
No shame in being conned once.
Lol I did it backwards because they could've fixed this garbage and it would've been all roses an sunshine. But they don't give a rat's ass. Thus....shame on me for believing they would....the first time that is. (:
I've not used IRC for ages, since I stopped playing CS. It was a very nice tool, filtrating a little bit more than let's say warcraft open channels. IRC TS will get a new golden age!!
I've been prepared for this by about 10 years of playing non-Blizzard games online. IRC bouncer, check. TS/Vent server, check. Member in a forum full of D3 freaks, check. Let's get out the good old direct communication. Hardened veterans, unite!
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
Actually fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
No shame in being conned once.
I had to
I don't know I tend to agree with Blizzard though, as long as there are chat channels i.e. guild channels where me and the friends are playing can talk I don't really care about talking to a bunch of random people I don't know.
On March 27 2012 02:25 Okiesmokie wrote: I feel like none of you people even played Diablo 2 in its prime. You say you want chat channels so you can trade items? Obviously you don't remember the 30+ spam bots per item trade channel making it literally impossible to sell/buy anything at all. Just use d2jsp like every other serious player.
Thats true, but before d2jsp it was all bnet....if D2 had been released with the current bnet's chat functions it never would've gotten nearly as big as it was and there would''ve been no d2jsp in the first place. Bnet is just as big a part of D2 and to a lesser extent BW's success as the game themselves were. Because you could go into the game and have the whole social aspect without having to go to a random website or use chat channels like IRC. Everything was done in game due to the chat system and lobbies. Now that the system's served its purpose in making the franchises as big as they are Blizz no longer sees them as necessary and just decides to scrap them while adding nothing in return....its a backwards way to go about it and hopefully it bites them in the ass in the long run to teach them a lesson.
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
Why do people feel the need to chat with random people in a video game? Go out, have a couple of drinks and chat with random people if that's what you want.
Just look at some stream chat channel, those are a total mess full of trolls, is that what everybody craves for ? Even if those have admins, the amount of trolling keeps getting higher, specially when someone like idrA or Stephano streams, their chat channel is a total mess.
The sc2 chat system is more then fine, I don't see any problems if d3 will be using the same system.
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
People want a chat system because it is proven through past games that a good/working chat system is an integral part of the community. Why don't you go play single player Diablo 2 or single player Starcraft 2? 99% of people play the game to play with others. Therefore games that rely so much on a multiplayer experience should also include well designed multiplayer communication methods. The fact that anyone is even trying to argue otherwise is ridiculous.
Having played d1, scbw, d2, wc3, and sc2, and being an extremely avid blizzard gamer since the age of 8, I really believed that sc2 would be the premier e-sport. I played for over a year after it came out and I, like so many others(many of whom are still doing this) was pushing the belief that sc2 would be the "end all" e-sport, one of the hugest games for the next few years, which would attract undeniably huge amounts of attention and be catapulted to something more. I quit last fall like so many others who started with me did before me.
As someone who actively tries to get friends into/playing the games that I am playing, because it's more enjoyable to play with friends, SC2 was impossible besides gamers I knew back from bw/wc3 days. And even then it was hard. And, I can pretty positively say the reasoning behind so many departures and lack of lived up to hype is because of the absolutely horrid UI and lack of improvement in that realm. YES, the original battle.net is STILL a HUGE improvement over 2.0. Frankly, it's sad that the popular community figures either have not realized this or are afraid to speak up about it. Now Diablo 3 looks like it will be going the same route; massive potential which will never be lived up to for such stupid reasons like these.
On February 07 2012 05:59 andrewlt wrote: You have to understand, you guys are the minority. The research pretty much confirms what Blizzard is doing. Basically, the biggest demographic of multiplayer videogames, 14-25 year old males, is a complete turn off to every other demographic. It's a negative experience for everyone else. Almost every other year, I read a major study showing how the biggest stumbling block to the expansion of hardcore multiplayer games is its current player base.
WoW's player base is generally older than most games in the market nowadays, especially FPS and action games. And I still have most general chat channels turned off on most of my characters. SC2's community is even worse, just judging from in game chat.
I can definitely see more negatives than positives in allowing public chat channels. It's pretty odd that they don't have guild support, though, as many of my current and former WoW guildmates are likely to pick up this game.
I don't get how the largest demographic being unlikable to other demographics means no public channel system. You weren't forced into public channels so if you don't like it, don't go there. The largest demographic clearly wants something, but you're saying because said demographic is a turn off to others, there shouldn't be chat channels. This logic is so faulty in so many ways to me.
Public chat channels don't hurt anyone and they build a community which keeps players playing and invites more people to start playing. Honestly, it'd be the first thing I'd implement into any sort of online game.
p.s. I'm not part of that demographic and I can't stand most of the community from online gaming and I still think it's a terrible move by blizzard.
On March 26 2012 10:24 Rumpus wrote: Man, I have played the Diablo 3 beta and I didn't really know anyone else that did so I sort of said I'd shrug off the social aspects until launch. But after reading this, and going through it myself....I don't think so Blizzard.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
Certainly won't be getting Diablo if this is the crap we'll have to deal with. Already went through this issue with Starcraft 2, and still going through it =/.
For those who don't understand, the social aspect is insanely important to a game like this. How would I find people to trade/group with and actually do some friendly banter and so forth? I don't want to have to go through TL or the Diablo 3 forums, swap friend codes and start getting people together every time I want to meet or play with someone. That is ridiculous.
Actually fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I don't know I tend to agree with Blizzard though, as long as there are chat channels i.e. guild channels where me and the friends are playing can talk I don't really care about talking to a bunch of random people I don't know.
What happens when a item you want to buy or trade isn't in your guild or list of friends? Also what if you don't play with anyone?
I mean cmon..how are you going to sell ultra rare item without just advertising if someone wants it or try to trade for ultra rare item when no one in guild has it? You will just have to hope someone in your guild/friends have it or be forced to actually grind for it when you can maybe just afford to buy it with other items.
So wait you can only search for public games like SC2? How does it know what I want to do? How do I find people running Tristrum or the cow level. How do I fucking do anything? Am I just suppose to play this whole game single player or hope the guys in a random game are doing the same mission as me in the act or even doing anything at all?
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
Lol are you kidding me. Sounds like you might be the one that doesnt go outside haha. One of the only reasons you should play a game continuously is if there is something else keeping you there. To be honest there are not many games outside of sc2 that you want to sit there and play by yourself over and over. The whole point is to play with others and have fun. Most people who played d2 and WoW played because of the people and not because of the game.
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
Lol are you kidding me. Sounds like you might be the one that doesnt go outside haha. One of the only reasons you should play a game continuously is if there is something else keeping you there. To be honest there are not many games outside of sc2 that you want to sit there and play by yourself over and over. The whole point is to play with others and have fun. Most people who played d2 and WoW played because of the people and not because of the game.
I quit WoW because my friends (90% of which I made through the game) all stopped playing and my guild activity died down quite a bit. So 'yes', if making friends and social connections in D3 is as completely impossible as it is in SC2...count me out.
I don't care if it is the greatest game ever made. It's heart and soul comes from it's community and how we interact.
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
wow, i never thought of that. thats really sneaky of them if true : \
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
Well, that's kind of logical, isn't it? I mean, Blizzard hosts huge amounts of servers for games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, and unlike WoW they don't ask players to pay a monthly fee while they do have to pay for those servers. They have to get their money from somewhere. Blizzard, like any company out there, isn't a charity that aims to please us, poor gamers, at every turn.
Besides, I played a lot of Diablo 2 without ever bothering to post in a chat channel. I just played the game with a group of friends, or on my own. People seem to forget that there still is a huge demographic that barely ever plays online.
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
Don't kid yourselves >_>
Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote: It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone?
its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics.
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
Don't kid yourselves >_>
Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
He said they didn't want chat channels to prevent trading. But yeah I would advertise in chat channels to sell shit because of the giant transaction fee. I have made 1.5 mill in this patch (14) from flipping in the AH so i know it like the back of my hand.
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
Don't kid yourselves >_>
Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
You obviously never played any MMO with an AH. A majority of people used chat systems or forums to sell shit even with the AH.
You know, if you actually read the thread you'd know that chat channels are in right now. I know reading is boring and everything so I even took a screenshot.
They still suck like every ingame chat ever, use IRC.
Of course there are channels, but they are very crippled, just like in Sc2. Who uses all those public chat channels? There's almost nobody in there and you cannot get something going there. They don't care about 20 ppl trading via channels, but I am sure they do care if 80% of all the users would circumvent the Auctionhouse via easy accessible, and organizable chatrooms with a good system.
You'll not go around and search for some channel with frequent visitors, when you can just click one button and use the AH.
Hey guys, we want to maximize the use of the Moneyzzz-Auctionhouse. Therefore it is understandable, that we feel obliged to limit the amount of random communication between the players, who would surely use public chat channels to open trade channels and trade items ingame, without using the MONEYYZZZ-Auctionhouse. Thank You Le Blizzard
That's why they made a channel named "trade"?
Don't kid yourselves >_>
Even if there were more chat channels than you could handle, you would still use the AH. Why spend precious time advertising with no guaranteed success when you can just get your shit done in a few seconds using the AH.
You obviously never played any MMO with an AH. A majority of people used chat systems or forums to sell shit even with the AH.
Irrelevant, Diablo isn't an MMO. The volume of trades per person in Diablo is a lot higher than most other games, using channels will simply be too tedious. Just curious, what MMOs are you talking about exactly?
On March 29 2012 06:21 Amalaxi wrote: I buy a game to play it, the people who are complaining about a chat system (who cares?) are buying games to chat to others? Go outside.
Do you feel some sort of power by being so monumentally ignorant? I mean it's hard to understand how someone can have the gall to say "who cares?" when the bnet forums are constantly alight with this discussion on their own. It's quite clear that people DO care and they care very much.
Furthermore I don't understand why anyone would actually be against the implementation of a Bnet that doesn't suck in the social aspect. People that just want to play can do that and nothng changes for them. For the people that want to be social...yea those are the ones that typically play several YEARS longer than the people that just play the game. It is important and nobody should be against making Bnet better because as it is now it's absolutely terrible and shows no signs of obvious improvement.
I do feel without the old bnet chat channels is going to be more productive in the sense that you will be more focused on playing rather just doing stupid shit in chat channel. I like the idea of private guild channels and friends channels. Pub chat is just retarded, all you see is trolls and spammers.
On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote: It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone?
its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics.
It's really disgusting how creative gameplay and innovative ideas have been phased out as companies try to maximize their profit. They really don't care about making a great game anymore.
On March 26 2012 15:50 kcbgoku wrote: It's really sad for me that games I loved are kind of moving forward, but in reality they take a big step backward. Technology is getting better and better and in games we can see that especially with graphics, but useful features are just disappearing from games. No chat, no dedicated servers, no lan, no customization, no sharing replay (I'm not talking just about blizzard games). All of those are easy to implement and better for players. How do I know that? They've been in games for years and worked perfectly. Their lack is taking away from everyones experience and gives, 0? advantages over "the old stuff".
I'm putting ? next to the 0 because I just don't see them. Does anyone?
its true, games are all being dumbed down across the board. in features and in gameplay. and it is sad. They don't care so much about creating a great game anymore, but just suckering people in with graphics and cinematics.
It's really disgusting how creative gameplay and innovative ideas have been phased out as companies try to maximize their profit. They really don't care about making a great game anymore.
Whether a game is good or not is purely personal. Personally, I find that the best games ever are games that have come out the past 5 years or so, and that includes the COD: MW series, Starcraft 2, Half Life 2: Ep2, Skyim, Bioshock etc.
Personally, I don't care too much about chat channels either. I never really used them in Diablo 2, Lord of Destruction, Warcraft 3 or Starcraft 2.
Whether a game is good or not is purely personal. Personally, I find that the best games ever are games that have come out the past 5 years or so, and that includes the COD: MW series, Starcraft 2, Half Life 2: Ep2, Skyim, Bioshock etc.
Personally, I don't care too much about chat channels either. I never really used them in Diablo 2, Lord of Destruction, Warcraft 3 or Starcraft 2.
I can understand your point of view, but wouldn't you agree that it could at least be an option you can turn on or off? So people like you can turn it off and keep playing without chat, the way they like. And people that do want to chat can also have it. That way those two perfectly valid views would not collide and everyone will be happier about it.
The thing is, a lot of people actually have some sort of clan and would like to have a place to meet online before or in between the games. Of course you can still play the game without chat channels. That is not what s being argued over the bnet forums (and here).
I think Blizzard has forgotten just why their games used to be so incredibly fun. When you play a boardgame you don't just stare at your opponent, make your moves, and when the game is done you go upstairs to sleep, no you freak out, you bargain, you laugh and you have a great time. Older Blizzard games captured that sort of feeling, that you could talk jump into a chat channel and talk about the game, or just talk about whatever was the topic that day, and the Clan/Guild features made that so much better since you would also sort of "know" the people you were talking to. Newer Blizzard games make me feel like I'm playing against the AI when I'm playing multiplayer. The only difference is that this AI is much more likely to swear at me. People are simply more friendly when they feel they know who they are around, and chat channels and clans did that for the players.
I'm not saying that PC games should give the player the same sense of community as boardgames do, they obviously can't, but regardless of that, BW and WC3 felt better and more fun to play than SC2 ever did, even though the games were not necessarily better, and that can all be attributed to the UI.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
All of my current gaming buddies are people I met and bonded with from Warcraft III. Some of them from public channel too. Another very close friend of mine (still to this day) is someone I met on a Warcraft III public channel. One of these people also met his current girlfriend whom he now lives with through WC3, girlfriend whom I and my other friends met on a public channel. Mock it if you will, but it's true and it's still going on, after about 6 years. I can't say I have experienced the same thing with SC2. One, because the game isn't nearly as fun as WC3 to me - I really find WC3 to be the ultimate game Blizzard has made so far - and two, because you really do feel alone on BNet 2.0.
I wasn't all that excited about D3 because it's not really my type of game, eventhough I did play D1 and D2. I also was not excited about SC2, but I bought it anyway for the sake of how I feel (well.. felt) about Blizzard. I pretty much trusted their judgement and figured hey it's Blizzard, so let's spend some money.
I won't be doing the same with D3, I have no intention of buying it whatsoever. And to the people who say "yes you will buy it because you posted here blabla" I'm merely answering to this statement of you can't make any long term friends through chats. The next Blizzard game I might buy is WC4, but I will for sure be skipping D3 and the next SC2 expansions to come.
On February 09 2012 03:13 Excalibur_Z wrote: Holy crap guys, really? There is so much idiocy in this thread it was honestly difficult -- borderline agonizing -- to read through all 8 pages.
You are all looking at public chat channels through rose-tinted glasses. If you log into Diablo2, the instant you hit Enter Chat you are bombarded with bot advertisement whispers and miscellaneous spam from all the resident bots in Diablo II USA-1. That is the reason Blizzard doesn't want public chat channels. Private chat channels are another matter entirely and they outright say those are useful right in the quote.
A SC2-style format would work very well for D3, with no default public channels that you instantly join but retaining private channels for people to meet and discuss the game. The teamliquid channel in SC2 almost always contains many players discussing things from GSL to race balance to organizing practice matches.
I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding trading. There are two parallel auction houses last I heard, and that will simplify trading far more than any chat channel because it won't be luck of the draw that you happened to be online at the same time as someone who wants to sell that item you want. The auction house -- both gold and real money -- facilitate trading to the needs of every player.
Bots have an even easier time to advertise now. Click the matchmaking button, spam in game, leave game, rinse&repeat. The spam argument is probably the worst argument of all.
If you want to trade item for item you can't because the auction house doesn't allow that which was probably the best way to trade instead of using sojs or runes, now you are forced to even remove any kind of bargaining and only trade on the auction house.
It's not even going to be sc2 style chat either, its zero chat just like when sc2 launched and the community whined so much, there wont be private channels either.
I played sc, bw, wc3, tft, d1, hellfire, d2, lod and it was great because of the chat among other stuff. I stopped playing sc2 because it was so boring and the custom map list was horrendous. I got bored before they added the chat because there was nothing else to do than a call of duty-esque matchmaking. It felt like a single player game where i would queue against random computers that never talked other than saying gg at the end. I'm 100% sure I am not alone like this and im fairly sure sc2 woudl not have been a popular game had it been the exact same game by another dev because it has nothing for itself other than it being made by blizzard.
Right now playing the d3 beta is : hit matchmaking, people rush to skeleton king without saying a single word, leave, repeat. Pvp will probably be different but then there's no game list to find pvp games so it will probably be another dumb matchmaking queue.
In a perfect world, d3 would be on bnet 1.0.
Unrelated note: the graphics look like it's from torchlight unless you apply a direct3d filter to make them sharper/darker. It's disapointing
Regarding bot spam, I don't disagree that they have alternate forms of spamming players, but removing public chat channels that players join immediately after logging in will effectively remove one form of spam.
Trading in D2 was a terrible experience because there was no established economy when the game was first released. That makes things interesting at the very start because it introduces the possibility for trades to be wildly unfair for one player or the other, but eventually some form of standardized currency emerges. For D2 this was the SoJ which was bizarre because of their rarity and the arcane path players had to take to acquire them (having to carry both other unique rings for the SoJ to drop as the next unique ring was anything but intuitive or obvious). Gold was practically worthless in D2, but Blizzard has already said that gold will be the primary form of trading currency, just as it is in WoW. The WoW auction house as a model is extremely successful and, as long as gold carries some intrinsic value, the D3 auction house will succeed as well.
As for community interaction, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from players who used public chat channels to befriend or forge any sort of lasting relationship with another player. When I played BW, I think I joined one game ever that was advertised in a Brood War USA-# channel and it was some 3v3 BGH game, and that was only to dominate some random players. I could have done that through joining any game in the Join list. I joined a random "Clan recruitment" game where I was invited to the clan channel and joined the clan, just to see how easily I could become the best player in a random clan (strangely Empyrean was already in this clan). I played a random WGTour game where my opponent Paladin[USA] and I founded a small clan that lasted about a week. Practically every other game that I've played -- out of SC2 or BW or D2 -- has been a standard match with or against strangers either with or without friends that had no need for public chat channels. I still joined the relevant private channels of the day: ~nohunters, Brood War USA-1000, etc., but virtually nobody I've interacted with over my course of playing Blizzard games ever had any reason to visit -- nor had anything positive to say about -- public channels.
All of my current gaming buddies are people I met and bonded with from Warcraft III. Some of them from public channel too. Another very close friend of mine (still to this day) is someone I met on a Warcraft III public channel. One of these people also met his current girlfriend whom he now lives with through WC3, girlfriend whom I and my other friends met on a public channel. Mock it if you will, but it's true and it's still going on, after about 6 years. I can't say I have experienced the same thing with SC2. One, because the game isn't nearly as fun as WC3 to me - I really find WC3 to be the ultimate game Blizzard has made so far - and two, because you really do feel alone on BNet 2.0.
I wasn't all that excited about D3 because it's not really my type of game, eventhough I did play D1 and D2. I also was not excited about SC2, but I bought it anyway for the sake of how I feel (well.. felt) about Blizzard. I pretty much trusted their judgement and figured hey it's Blizzard, so let's spend some money.
I won't be doing the same with D3, I have no intention of buying it whatsoever. And to the people who say "yes you will buy it because you posted here blabla" I'm merely answering to this statement of you can't make any long term friends through chats. The next Blizzard game I might buy is WC4, but I will for sure be skipping D3 and the next SC2 expansions to come.
I don't know you meet most of your buddies in public chat, at least for me I would add people who are cool and competent in the game rather than adding someone from public chat. I've said this before, without the public chat, there will be less spam, less trolling, and more gaming. If you want to chat, I am sure you can chat up a storm in game or find an IRC channel for that purpose.
On April 02 2012 01:46 bOneSeven wrote: No imba chat system, no moding ability....Well, a lot of people will buy this game but it will die very soon imo
Why would it die soon because of no chat and no modding? Are you new to Blizzard games or something? Look at SC and D2, both no modding and they were/are still the most popular games around. You are comparing apples with oranges, WoW is MMORPG, D2/D3 are RPGs.
I do feel without the old bnet chat channels is going to be more productive in the sense that you will be more focused on playing rather just doing stupid shit in chat channel.
The social experience is what made and makes SCBW / D2 / War3 battle.net so great
what i really dont understand is why blizzards bnet actually got alot worse then what we had and other companies like valve create something that has all you want on their first try. look at dota2 , it offers almost evrything we could wish for bnet.
bnet goes down the drain and dissappoints evrywhere while others stomp out way superior products on the first go. its just sad and i really dont understand why thats the case.
On April 02 2012 01:46 bOneSeven wrote: No imba chat system, no moding ability....Well, a lot of people will buy this game but it will die very soon imo
Why would it die soon because of no chat and no modding? Are you new to Blizzard games or something? Look at SC and D2, both no modding and they were/are still the most popular games around. You are comparing apples with oranges, WoW is MMORPG, D2/D3 are RPGs.
D2 had modding and SC had moding through the map editor.
I completely agree with most of the people here, in that I sincerely hope Diablo 3 bnet is not going to be like Starcraft 2 bnet, which still feels very empty. Bring back the old WC3 bnet with all the chat, the clan channels, the clans, the different ranks inside a clan etc.
Of course the social experience is very important. I can't imagine who would want to just play a multiplayer game as if they're playing single player. And even if there are such people, they can still do it by NOT clicking the "enter chat" button, while all the rest of us social people can have a good time.
I played D2 for about 3 years after LoD. The public chat channels were, on balance, awful.
GBR-1 etc weren't so bad to begin with, but later on got infested by bots. The only good things I remember about those channels were occasional late night random chat with strangers talking shit, probably about the same level as Chuck Norris jokes.
Hardcore-1 etc was basically the HC trade channel. Even early on, near impossible to see anything you needed because of the massive amounts of spam, which also flooded out the whispers you used to try and negotiate in a never ending tide of scrolling text.
GAT was where I spent all my AFK time. Pretty much the only reason people were ever in there was to AFK, since if you just wanted to chat you'd enter one of the GAT games and chat in there.
The only chatting I really ever did was /f m to spam my whole friends list, and everyone on there did the same. You basically had friends lists that worked as a ghetto guild chat. As long as they implement that, I'm fine with it.
If I want to go talk to random people, I'll enter a public game and talk in there. Public channels were spam, inane drivel and afk, nothing more.
Maybe they will fix it in a future patch? I mean you have to look at it from a different perspective, not just yours. Blizzard is trying as hard as they can to give you the best product possible. As of now they are working on the WoW beta (general feedback and stuff), the StarCraft2 expansion, and polishing D3 along with other secret projects. So i suppose the questions is would you rather have a crappy chat for a few months, or have 2 crappy expansions that will take even longer to fix? Gota give em props for trying their best to juggle every thing :p
The only chatting I really ever did was /f m to spam my whole friends list, and everyone on there did the same. You basically had friends lists that worked as a ghetto guild chat. As long as they implement that, I'm fine with it.
Haha, so true. Most of your friends were offline anyway because everybody had plenty of accounts and you needed to keep track of them all.
At the beginning, I was angry at Blizz to do such a thing as starcraft 2 bnet. But after reading what you guys say, I feel like this is a good idea. TBH chat is for troll/spammer/no life or bot. If you want to met people try a bar or facebook + there's chance u meet girls in does places.
I can understand why they don't want to put in public channels but why in the world would they not implement chat channels with player moderation. That is what made battle.net great. PRIVATE channels with player moderation.
Played this Beta in SC2. and NEVER made a friend. Never even played 2v2 with an uknown person... That's .. WHAT ??? I played WoW. Met some real good friends there that i met. Hell my friend's sister married a guy from her guild now !
Bnet 2.0 is the most horrible thing. When i log i go to the chat channel... but that's scrolling to fast. You HAVE to join so there's no one there most of the time. You play SC2 clicking the finding match button like you launched your supernintendo...
So when i read here that open channels like in SC1 are regretion... please. They could have keep them and IMPROVE them... No they did something like IRC that never existed. I mean that even IRC has better chat featers than Bnet2.0 ... And we are talking 15years ago (sorry for my bad syntax).
I'm really considering to play Diablo3 but not buying it now... I canceled my pre-order and will wait till may to decide.
On April 05 2012 00:13 Bikini wrote: At the beginning, I was angry at Blizz to do such a thing as starcraft 2 bnet. But after reading what you guys say, I feel like this is a good idea. TBH chat is for troll/spammer/no life or bot. If you want to met people try a bar or facebook + there's chance u meet girls in does places.
Please... a lot of us here that knows diablo1 are 25+ years old... Don't talk about meeting girls. That's childish... I'm sure a lot of TLers with knowledge of D1 are married or engaged. And about the troll/spammers/bot (Why no-life ?) you could moderate your channels.
On April 04 2012 08:32 Tryndamere wrote: I don't know you meet most of your buddies in public chat, at least for me I would add people who are cool and competent in the game rather than adding someone from public chat. I've said this before, without the public chat, there will be less spam, less trolling, and more gaming. If you want to chat, I am sure you can chat up a storm in game or find an IRC channel for that purpose.
There is more to "chatting" than just sitting in a public channel and making friends. I did not say that was how I met all of my friends, since I said "some of them".
Also, mostly, it happened like this : x and y are on the same public channel, various conversations are going on between the amount of other users on the same channel and x and y stir up a conversation, and end up going "why not go for a little custom game?" and just like that, you got yourself a new friend.
My point is this is much harder to accomplish without public channels, and as bad as spam or bots are, public channels do give you the opportunity to just kinda stumble on random people and befriend them by chatting them up and then playing with them.
On the current BNet 2.0 however, you feel horribly alone and you literally can't do that. Which sucks.
d2jsp fixes all those chatroom problems which probably never works well and it lets ppl who play multiple games to sell their stuff to pay for things in other games
For me SC2 Bnet does feel empty, you feel very secluded. I don't really like that. Hope D3 is going to be better really, but anyways I'm gonna play the game through Steam so all my friends can see what I'm doing and I can always talk to them.
I really don't get how hard it can be to just put in some simple private channels to which you can invite people or that require a password or something.
So how the fuck do we meet new people? Sorry if it has been mentioned before. I have played SC2 regularly since the beta and practically haven't made a single lasting friend. It really feels like you're all alone, no one to communicate with. Looking for runs and groups made diablo and WoW what they are/were. To be honest, I never had a use for the chat in warcraft 3 (except for commands), but that was only because of the really good custom games lists.
I really don't get what Blizzard is doing. I understand the whole thing about not having LAN or single player, it actually makes sense. People are forced to pay for the game = Blizzard makes money. But what do they get from having such a shitty social part in Battle.Net 2.0? If the lobbies/custom games won''t allow you to decide the name, I don't see this working out very well. Like the custom game service in starcraft 2 is the worst thing I've ever seen. Blizzard really f*ckd up didn't they.
Edit: Just realised there is an almost identical post a couple of posts up, and I didn't even read it before writing my own. Really shows you how much people hate they way they're handling this.
If they can only get rid of the feeling that you are playing alone every night i'm satisfied. Whenever i play SC2 without friends it feels like i'm the only degenerate awake playing the game. I want to at least know that other people are there with me.
I'm coming around to the idea that it's all just a big plan by Blizzard to make sure people buy there B titles and play them once through in the first week but then go back to their A title that you have to pay a subscription for. It just makes no sense that they could completely turn their back on what made wc3 and WoW so successful.
Their reason for not having public channels is water tight, unless you got on the internet last night for the first time ever you should know how horrible of a cesspool online communities usually always are, even in heavily moderated places.
In a perfect world we would have public channels and everyone would behave...like a normal human being? And no moderation would even be needed, but we know that is impossible.
Perhaps they have concrete data on the people who left WoW the last year (2 million by their own report) perhaps many of them left because of the lousy community? And they dont want to the same here or in SC2.
On April 15 2012 20:23 Tyree wrote: Their reason for not having public channels is water tight, unless you got on the internet last night for the first time ever you should know how horrible of a cesspool online communities usually always are, even in heavily moderated places.
In a perfect world we would have public channels and everyone would behave...like a normal human being? And no moderation would even be needed, but we know that is impossible.
Perhaps they have concrete data on the people who left WoW the last year (2 million by their own report) perhaps many of them left because of the lousy community? And they dont want to the same here or in SC2.
Lousy community is just a cop-out excuse, though.
You could literally accuse every game of having a crappy community. The community is always what you as a player make of it.
On April 16 2012 06:14 unkkz wrote: Spam and bots are still no exscuse for not having guild/clan support and privately modded channels that are actually propper channels ala WC3
The point, very simply, is that we're seeing a general neglect of response from Blizzard to it's most loyal fans. Seriously, what's the big deal if you add a community chat channel? You don't HAVE to participate, if you don't want to. Don't want to chat to a bunch of people you don't know? That's fine, nobody's forcing you.
I would guess that most people that play SC2 or will play D3 have, at some point, played D2, WC3, or BW. We all loved the interface. Why change it? Terrible, terrible, terrible decision. SC2 has suffered from it - no LAN, dropped games in major tournaments (see MKP vs Parting last IPL), and a general sense of not even wanting to log on. It just does't feel like something we want to login to.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/uponsun/forever-alone-meme-280x250.png)
. As long as you acknowledge that other people have made meaningful connections through chat, and that the social experience has been more for them than "kids caps-locking obscenities...". I've read quite a few posts about people who have made long-term friendships with people they've met in Brood War chatrooms. What better place to meet people who share your interests than through a gaming service?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/00Nr1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8hlXC.jpg)
