|
Prize money is never a viable source of income. That is a terrible way to do things, prize money goes towards an individual not a team. You think IdrA is gonna share his prize money among the members of EG if he wins? Think he'll pay the rent for the team house? Buy plane tickets for everyone to go to Korea? Prize money is almost NEVER going back into eSports, so keep it in mind. Even if it was a team tournament, you can't run a team on the basis that you have to win prizes to even stay afloat. Can't you see that's completely unsustainable? People see a large sum of money and all logic goes out the window.
On March 24 2011 08:22 chobopeon wrote:
Brood War was and is great. This is a new game and, overall, it has taken over as torch bearer for e-sports. The current state of SC2 in Korea is not the dream at all, not for me. In my opinion, it's just a start.
I have no idea what you're talking about with the football strike meaning more SC2 viewers but no, I don't think that.
Somebody started a thread about American Football downtime leading to more SC2 viewers, guess you didn't see it. And of course you don't think SC2 in Korea is the dream, but i never meant SC2 as the current situation there isn't ideal or a dream at all. I think people have to keep in mind BW was just the right game in the right place at the right time, coinciding heavily with the boom of PC Bangs in Korean and managing to somehow obtain a large female fanbase too which helped audiences a lot.
|
Prize money is not a viable source of income in and of itself. Okay. Understood. What does that have to do with this tournament? You don't know the way the prizes will be handed out, how intimately the teams are involved (are they sharing ad revenue?) or anything. Really, you don't know anything about this league. Not many of us do.
Wheat isn't saying SUPPORT ESPORTS UNCONDITIONALLY and neither am I. No one with a good head on their shoulders is. Without speaking for anyone else, I am saying that no one should be chanting "DOWN WITH IGN" or "LONG LIVE IGN" based on this. This is very interesting news with huge potential. Maybe it will be a wash, maybe it will succeed. That depends on a million details and we have very, very few of them.
|
On March 24 2011 08:11 infinity2k9 wrote:Paying for advisement isn't the same kind of money as i'm talking about in actually running teams though. This method of big money tournaments early in a games life didn't work in the past, so until it actually happens i'll be apprehensive about the situation. For one thing the totally average gamer is fickle and especially considering the kind of average gamer to go on IGN, probably is only half interested in strategy games at most. The most popular NA eSport so far if i'm not mistaken is Halo... totally different games we're talking about here. I don't see SC2 offering anything to these guys. Just my opinion anyway you're entitled to be excited if you have high hopes but i'm just trying to be realistic here. Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 08:05 chobopeon wrote:
If this dream is already realized for you in Korea, you're dreaming awfully small. You must be one of the crazy people like the guy who thought that American Football downtime would lead to somehow more SC2 viewers right? BW got 100,000 people live at a Proleague final in it's peak. If that's dreaming small then i got no idea wtf you are thinking this is going to turn into.
Getting the companies to come in an sponsor any thing in eSports is huge, and quite frankly it makes most sense for a company to pay for ads first. They aren't going to leap out and sponsor a team right away. When companies realize that hey this is working out really well for us with the ads, then they will look more into sponsoring teams. Like I said before, it has to start somewhere.
Even if IGN only gets a certain amount interested in strategy games, it doesn't mean people interested in others won't check out this tournament. sc2 is my first strategy game and now I'm completely obsessed with it. This league is about bringing in those new fans. Lots of people will just click and check it out. Thats the beauty of the internet. If IGN has this on their main page as the top story, you better believe a lot of people will check it out and a lot will get hooked, as long as it is presented well.
|
The prize money as income was responding to H2O who directly inferred that.
|
On March 24 2011 08:30 infinity2k9 wrote:
The prize money as income was responding to H2O who directly inferred that.
I did not mean to infer that prize money be the sole source of income for any person/team. My wording was bad on that part. My point was more along the lines of "More money means people will spend more time practicing". Whether or not it goes directly back into eSports was irrelevant to that point.
I'm not a great writer, and I tend to mess up my words and struggle to make myself clear often. I have to apologize for that.
|
I have no idea how poeple actually turns this to a bad thing.
|
On March 24 2011 04:46 Jinsho wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 04:15 hydra21 wrote:
Here's an example for one... Dr.Pepper is a sponsor of MLG. Do you think they care remotely about spending money so people from Croatia see their ads? Absolutely not because it's not a target market and they probably don't even have the infrastructure to sell there.
This is nonsense. Dr Pepper also owns the 7-up brand, which is sold internationally by Pepsi. Of all things you chose a soft drink which you can literally sell to anyone in the entire world. Of all things.
hahaha I was thinking the exact same thing.
|
Why must people argue with DjWheat. Man knows what he's talking about.
But I guess people love complaining on the internets. Bottom line, this will generate more money and awareness toward SC2 in america, which will draw more sponsorship. This will generate more money and awareness, and the feedback cycle continues until someday gaming will be as popular as say ...... Poker or Magic the Gathering (the main magic tournament has a million dollar grand prize IIRC) or even chess.
|
so like NASL but professional and with a real corporation behind it? im sure this will happen 100% while nasl is stil in question for me.
|
On March 24 2011 08:15 Gentleman7 wrote:
If tylers not in it it's not the top 16 in USA.
While I don't disagree with this sentiment, if you read the statement, they contacted certain teams, and also it seems like many of the players tehre are people who are alerady in california or in the west coast.
|
I totally agree with that was djwheat said. A good example for this business is the ESL. It started exactly like the IGN. With a german based series, german fans, players and stories. NOW it's an international player but based on the success they had withthin the german community. The ESL is based on 2.650.000 million registred players.
I totally think it is the smartest way to start a local based company and go for an organic growth.
Anyways; super excited and i'm gonna watch americans playing because i don't care about nationalites just about games as a viewer. 
|
On March 24 2011 05:07 djWHEAT wrote:
People got on my junk when I said the EXACT same thing about GOMtv's GSL. And I stuck by my word the entire time.
I'm fine if people don't like what I've said in this thread, I've got 10 years of experience seeing leagues start, fail, succeed, and grow. You can ignore the past 10 years of history... or you can use it to see why many of their decisions are in fact "smart".
Here are some FACTS:
- CGS, the first North American Televised Gaming Show, was destroyed because they tried to bite off more than they could chew. They thought they NEEDED to go global with their initiative and the end result was a waste of nearly $20 million dollars. That league died so fast because money was spent poorly. So for those who are expressing their concern over the fact that it's a NA focused league should consider that any company who's "breaking" into SC2 would be silly to attempt a "global" league when it could indeed fail. It's MUCH SMARTER to start with a very controlled and cost effective project, and grow from there. Just because it appears NA is their target for their first venture, doesn't mean they are ignoring the rest of the world.
And because I know someone will mention GSL, keep in mind that although GSL has "GLOBAL" in the title, they do not really have much operating cost outside of Korea. If you want to compete in that league you still have to get yourself to Korea to play. In CGS's case, they were fronting the cost of travel and accommodations for hundreds of players who ultimately (aside from a few Euro teams) brought nothing to the league.
- IGN is a North American company. Although they have reach well beyond NA, it makes sense (even if strictly from an advertising POV) that it would limit the first project to NA. That's just business folks. And it's smart business. You might not agree with it, but it's a pretty wise move especially considering all the other leagues which have fallen due to their urgency to expand "globally".
- North America has been look at in the eSports community as being "FUCKED UP" for the past 4 years. And technically, everyone who says this is right. We lost CPL, CGS, basically every major league which was present during the 2002-2005 eSports era. We need to rebuild like Doozers in Fraggle Rock. We need more potential for LAN events here in the US. As much as I preach global exposure to eSports, North America needs some SOLID leagues, events, and exposure to regain the prestige that NA once had. MLG is contributing to this and is a great effort, but we can't put all our eggs in one basket. NASL is a great start too... seeing IGN jump in the mix is equally as exciting.
- And since we're on the topic of IGN. NASL, ESL, MLG, etc... sorry but those guys are small potatoes compared to the potential exposure, revenue, and stability that IGN has to offer. Sure they might not have a glowing history in Pro-Gaming, but does that mean we should crucify them before they've even technically announced their intentions? In fact, I think we should as supportive as possible because don't we, as fans, just want more content, games, etc?
Additionally, it's a good time to reference the SotG PAX Edition in which Day[9] said one of the best way you can support SC2 is by SUPPORTING THE PLAYERS. With each new league that shows potential in this space, it's another opportunity for our rising NA stars to play, win, and earn. I for one would be tickled if I found out that my favorite NA players could focus 150% on SC2 because the amount of leagues (and potential prize money) continues to rise. Therefore... if we support the leagues, we're supporting the players (and even more than that - but I think this is a good time to reiterate what Day was saying).
I understand my post may have come off as harsh... but I'm tired of seeing communities shit on efforts which can only further the cause. And if this turns out to be one massive pile of shit (which I really doubt will be the case) - then I'll gladly come back and say ALL YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT. Until then, I'll continue to be the snobby optimist that I am.
CGS failed also because they chose CS:S over 1.6, alienating most of their fan base, and they did not have the benefit of having a game that has largely unified the esports world like SC2. Viewers equals revenue, and CGS did not have them. IGN doesn't have the problem of choosing the right game.
I think people are just naturally expressing their concern about how to make it the best possible product it can be. It seems like you're directing your frustration with the lackluster progress of esports in NA toward the community for not supporting organizations, which seems misplaced. Esports will become mainstream when they have an entertaining product that speaks to the masses. Yes, support of the hardcore is always good, but that alone will not lead to breakthrough. Internet forums are always going to have a diverse set of opinions both informed and ignorant, you can't really take it all too seriously. The proof will be in the pudding, and SC2 has shown far more potential for becoming mainstream in NA than all of its predecessors combined.
In regards to the league itself, if the prize pool is ~150k I feel like IGN has to have a slickly produced LAN finals at bare minimum. Online tournaments make for a comparatively boring show. Ideally this would be a LAN only league, but I understand if they want to dip their toes in the water before diving in.
|
Man seeing all the huge sc2 leagues pop up everywhere makes me so happy. It really show how far essports has grown in the last 10 years. I remember Yellow saying that, when he first started they didnt have much money and was like 3 guys living in a 2 room apartment and shit like that.
It just makes all warm inside to see all this. Also when you look at bw, and how it was the last 7-8 years. I didnt get any attention outside of korea, and foreigners had a really hard time becomming pros. Man this makes me so happy - It really does!
|
On March 24 2011 05:07 djWHEAT wrote:
People got on my junk when I said the EXACT same thing about GOMtv's GSL. And I stuck by my word the entire time.
I'm fine if people don't like what I've said in this thread, I've got 10 years of experience seeing leagues start, fail, succeed, and grow. You can ignore the past 10 years of history... or you can use it to see why many of their decisions are in fact "smart".
Here are some FACTS:
- CGS, the first North American Televised Gaming Show, was destroyed because they tried to bite off more than they could chew. They thought they NEEDED to go global with their initiative and the end result was a waste of nearly $20 million dollars. That league died so fast because money was spent poorly. So for those who are expressing their concern over the fact that it's a NA focused league should consider that any company who's "breaking" into SC2 would be silly to attempt a "global" league when it could indeed fail. It's MUCH SMARTER to start with a very controlled and cost effective project, and grow from there. Just because it appears NA is their target for their first venture, doesn't mean they are ignoring the rest of the world.
And because I know someone will mention GSL, keep in mind that although GSL has "GLOBAL" in the title, they do not really have much operating cost outside of Korea. If you want to compete in that league you still have to get yourself to Korea to play. In CGS's case, they were fronting the cost of travel and accommodations for hundreds of players who ultimately (aside from a few Euro teams) brought nothing to the league.
- IGN is a North American company. Although they have reach well beyond NA, it makes sense (even if strictly from an advertising POV) that it would limit the first project to NA. That's just business folks. And it's smart business. You might not agree with it, but it's a pretty wise move especially considering all the other leagues which have fallen due to their urgency to expand "globally".
- North America has been look at in the eSports community as being "FUCKED UP" for the past 4 years. And technically, everyone who says this is right. We lost CPL, CGS, basically every major league which was present during the 2002-2005 eSports era. We need to rebuild like Doozers in Fraggle Rock. We need more potential for LAN events here in the US. As much as I preach global exposure to eSports, North America needs some SOLID leagues, events, and exposure to regain the prestige that NA once had. MLG is contributing to this and is a great effort, but we can't put all our eggs in one basket. NASL is a great start too... seeing IGN jump in the mix is equally as exciting.
- And since we're on the topic of IGN. NASL, ESL, MLG, etc... sorry but those guys are small potatoes compared to the potential exposure, revenue, and stability that IGN has to offer. Sure they might not have a glowing history in Pro-Gaming, but does that mean we should crucify them before they've even technically announced their intentions? In fact, I think we should as supportive as possible because don't we, as fans, just want more content, games, etc?
Additionally, it's a good time to reference the SotG PAX Edition in which Day[9] said one of the best way you can support SC2 is by SUPPORTING THE PLAYERS. With each new league that shows potential in this space, it's another opportunity for our rising NA stars to play, win, and earn. I for one would be tickled if I found out that my favorite NA players could focus 150% on SC2 because the amount of leagues (and potential prize money) continues to rise. Therefore... if we support the leagues, we're supporting the players (and even more than that - but I think this is a good time to reiterate what Day was saying).
I understand my post may have come off as harsh... but I'm tired of seeing communities shit on efforts which can only further the cause. And if this turns out to be one massive pile of shit (which I really doubt will be the case) - then I'll gladly come back and say ALL YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT. Until then, I'll continue to be the snobby optimist that I am.
Amen to that djWHEAT! Not to give the finger to people here on TL but E-sporters in general are very narrowed minded, thinking that E-sports is a huge part of the gaming industry. Yes it's getting bigger and bigger but still it's just by a margin. Starcraft 2 is helping a lot though.
I think what IGN is doing is what NASL should had done (hello North American StarLeague). In my book only one can survive in the long run and my money is going for IGN. I don't think that two Starcraft 2-only high paying organizations can survive.
I think it's extremely bad and even ignorant to think that the IGN Proleague project will be handle like CGS because of the fact that both companies are owned by Rupert Murdoch. I'm quite confident in saying without knowing anything about it that the link stops there.
When saying that only one Starcraft 2 league will survive in the states I don´t include MLG as I think that either IGN Proleague or NASL can coexist with MLG. MLG is so much more and well established and Starcraft 2 is not their only game. Good to point out that MLG is putting up $200 000 for 2011 season, I think it's easy to forget that when you see NASL and IGN Proleague presenting their prize money.
|
On March 24 2011 10:21 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 05:07 djWHEAT wrote:
People got on my junk when I said the EXACT same thing about GOMtv's GSL. And I stuck by my word the entire time.
I'm fine if people don't like what I've said in this thread, I've got 10 years of experience seeing leagues start, fail, succeed, and grow. You can ignore the past 10 years of history... or you can use it to see why many of their decisions are in fact "smart".
Here are some FACTS:
- CGS, the first North American Televised Gaming Show, was destroyed because they tried to bite off more than they could chew. They thought they NEEDED to go global with their initiative and the end result was a waste of nearly $20 million dollars. That league died so fast because money was spent poorly. So for those who are expressing their concern over the fact that it's a NA focused league should consider that any company who's "breaking" into SC2 would be silly to attempt a "global" league when it could indeed fail. It's MUCH SMARTER to start with a very controlled and cost effective project, and grow from there. Just because it appears NA is their target for their first venture, doesn't mean they are ignoring the rest of the world.
And because I know someone will mention GSL, keep in mind that although GSL has "GLOBAL" in the title, they do not really have much operating cost outside of Korea. If you want to compete in that league you still have to get yourself to Korea to play. In CGS's case, they were fronting the cost of travel and accommodations for hundreds of players who ultimately (aside from a few Euro teams) brought nothing to the league.
- IGN is a North American company. Although they have reach well beyond NA, it makes sense (even if strictly from an advertising POV) that it would limit the first project to NA. That's just business folks. And it's smart business. You might not agree with it, but it's a pretty wise move especially considering all the other leagues which have fallen due to their urgency to expand "globally".
- North America has been look at in the eSports community as being "FUCKED UP" for the past 4 years. And technically, everyone who says this is right. We lost CPL, CGS, basically every major league which was present during the 2002-2005 eSports era. We need to rebuild like Doozers in Fraggle Rock. We need more potential for LAN events here in the US. As much as I preach global exposure to eSports, North America needs some SOLID leagues, events, and exposure to regain the prestige that NA once had. MLG is contributing to this and is a great effort, but we can't put all our eggs in one basket. NASL is a great start too... seeing IGN jump in the mix is equally as exciting.
- And since we're on the topic of IGN. NASL, ESL, MLG, etc... sorry but those guys are small potatoes compared to the potential exposure, revenue, and stability that IGN has to offer. Sure they might not have a glowing history in Pro-Gaming, but does that mean we should crucify them before they've even technically announced their intentions? In fact, I think we should as supportive as possible because don't we, as fans, just want more content, games, etc?
Additionally, it's a good time to reference the SotG PAX Edition in which Day[9] said one of the best way you can support SC2 is by SUPPORTING THE PLAYERS. With each new league that shows potential in this space, it's another opportunity for our rising NA stars to play, win, and earn. I for one would be tickled if I found out that my favorite NA players could focus 150% on SC2 because the amount of leagues (and potential prize money) continues to rise. Therefore... if we support the leagues, we're supporting the players (and even more than that - but I think this is a good time to reiterate what Day was saying).
I understand my post may have come off as harsh... but I'm tired of seeing communities shit on efforts which can only further the cause. And if this turns out to be one massive pile of shit (which I really doubt will be the case) - then I'll gladly come back and say ALL YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT. Until then, I'll continue to be the snobby optimist that I am. CGS failed also because they chose CS:S over 1.6, alienating most of their fan base, and they did not have the benefit of having a game that has largely unified the esports world like SC2. Viewers equals revenue, and CGS did not have them. IGN doesn't have the problem of choosing the right game. I think people are just naturally expressing their concern about how to make it the best possible product it can be. It seems like you're directing your frustration with the lackluster progress of esports in NA toward the community for not supporting organizations, which seems misplaced. Esports will become mainstream when they have an entertaining product that speaks to the masses. Yes, support of the hardcore is always good, but that alone will not lead to breakthrough. Internet forums are always going to have a diverse set of opinions both informed and ignorant, you can't really take it all too seriously. The proof will be in the pudding, and SC2 has shown far more potential for becoming mainstream in NA than all of its predecessors combined. In regards to the league itself, if the prize pool is ~150k I feel like IGN has to have a slickly produced LAN finals at bare minimum. Online tournaments make for a comparatively boring show. Ideally this would be a LAN only league, but I understand if they want to dip their toes in the water before diving in.
I don't suggest telling WHEAT different reasons why CGS failed lol.
Source over 1.6 was necessary to satisfy direct TV, just like spectating in 3rd person view, and starting out with max money. But that is by no means a primary reason, what Wheat stated is pretty much the big reason.
Also, people need to stop thinking of this as 150k for one 16 man invitational, given the information that has been found so far, it could very well be that the 150k is the TOTAL prize pool, and these 16 players were just the first in a qualification process or ANYTHING.
Speculation and assuming that 150k for one tournament is pretty foolish given that every bit of information written in the OP is all we have to go by right now.
|
|
|
Move over Korea, the starcraft paradigm are shifting!
|
There are those who said this day would never come, what have they to say now.
|
This is going to be awesome! I hope this encourages more people to play Starcraft 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
