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On February 05 2011 00:23 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 22:35 FryKt wrote:
All of you who are defending BLizzard with all your might, just why? Why do you do that?
Blizzard should do all they can to get us to stay" keep playing the game, buy expansions etc, play ladder" They are NOT doing us a favor in adding new maps, you make this seem like they are giving us a gift or something. OF COUSE THEY SHOULD ADD NEW MAPS IN FUCKING 6 MONTHS WHEN EVERYONE HATES THEM. Why the fuck they haven't yet is a mystery.
Every one cries for bigger more sc1 maps, So why don't they fucking copy some from sc1, make them a little different, and keep some of the smaller ones we have now. So the noobies who don't like big maps can just vote them down, and vice versa. They try to balance everything over maps who the majority hates.
And now they try to make some new maps, but I mean they fail. The first one, okei lost temple fixed. Which actually are a map old as rock. But it's one of the best with xelnaga and Shakruas( but shakuras have those f'ing backdoors)
And when they make new maps, they put in all kind of shit, like rocks on every fucking expansion, grass everywhere so you don't see shit, but that's okey becouse there are 43572942 Xelnaga towers showing you when the opponents scv's are taking a shitbreak behind the backdoor rocks of everyfucking expansion.
TL.DR:
Blizzard are not doing us a favor, they are slow and try too much new. Start making maps which are more standard, THEN make all the rocks, grass and all that crap. Holy shit this is good, needs to be quoted and bumped. I dont understand the sheep mentality on so many people here, the work blizzard is doing is subpar right now, we need to give them clearer feedback like the quote above me, so that the thickheaded people at blizzard understand what they are doing is in fact wrong. They will never give up on sc2 cause we give them a shitstorm, they will improve.
If you want your feedback to be taken seriously, act like a serious person instead of whiny kid 3 billion on some forum (making said forum worse in the process).
That said, I can't help but notice Blizz seems a bit stuck in a certain pattern here. Much can be said about the original map pool, but it seemed it a bit more.. varied?
I like the cliff being gone on LT of course, not sure about the islands and the middle. As for the other maps, I'd have to see how they work out size wise. A little voice keeps screaming in my ear about close positions however.. :/
Nobody's saying these'll all end up in the map pool though. They're test maps. Maybe they'll see which work out best? As for the different pools between the ladder and each of the big tournaments, that would suck, I'd hope Blizzard'd realize that, but GSL hasn't switched over officially yet either so who knows what'll happen there.
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Finally bliz, we'll see how this goes. Haters still gonna hate.
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Map 1 is a lost temple 2.0 right. The changes are defiantly a welcome sight.
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No archon toilet fix?
Im really suprised, considering fact that Blizzard already showed will to remove all this kind of bugs be making vortex destroy FF, so I was expecting this ASAP. Kinda strange...
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All I heard from people before was whining about no new maps. Now all I read is whining because the new maps aren't good enough. And I'm sure everybody with an opinion on these maps has tested them thoroughly on the PTR so they must be right.
PTR is there for a reason. No need to form bias on a map before you even try it.
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On February 04 2011 22:56 GinDo wrote:Serious people stop hating on maps you never PLAYED ON. Remember this?-> Lets Play Shakuras PlataeuEveryone hated Shakuras just from looking at it. Read some of the Crap said in that thread. Know Shakuras is one of the Favorite maps. Also remember the H8 on Xelnaga Caverns for having an open natural and a backdoor to the natural. People are stupid and like to join the huge bandwagon of Hate without any credible justification.
So true. I like it how people just whine like hell about these maps even though they probably haven't even given the maps a chance. I'm quite bummed that EU doesn't have PTR, I'd love to test those maps out, they seem relatively interesting, who knows, some of them might turn out to be awesome.
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On February 05 2011 00:38 Defacer wrote:If I were them I would seriously look at their "balance team" and ask myself what the hell they are actually doing all day.
balancing heart of the swarm.
I think they figured out people are uninterested in paying for ladder maps and have moved on to their new opportunity to make money from us.
we had a HUGE debate back in the beta about whether or not the community should be involved in balance decisions or whether blizzard should just ignore them. well, the ignore them crowd seems to have won. I wonder if they are happy?
ultimately the PTR has been the biggest wasted opportunity I have ever seen. we have now gotten to test out shorter phoenix build time and a bunch of terrible maps. BTW blizz said this is a sneak peak, I wouldnt expect these maps to change significantly.
they had an opportunity to test a stim nerf. but they didnt. they had an opportunity to test an ultra buff like a collision size reduction but they didnt. they had an opportunity to do something about 4 gate wars into war of the worlds in PvP but they didnt. to me, it's starting to look like major balance changes are going to cost us 40 dollars a piece.
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What's with all the rocks? I mean, all the destructible rocks just seem to narrow down the options.
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tooo much hate and pessimism Q.Q
seriously guys chill the fuck out.
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Your average TL poster has a very specific mindset about what they want your average ladder map to look like.
It appears to differ greatly from what blizzard is after.
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Testmap 1, Lost temple without the ledges at the natural...? 
Oh well, more maps appreciated.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50979 Posts
On February 05 2011 00:55 HollowLord wrote:
What's with all the rocks? I mean, all the destructible rocks just seem to narrow down the options.
*Tempted to make a joke with the name HollowLord*
Well its blizzards formula of success...
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On February 05 2011 00:54 P00RKID wrote:
All I heard from people before was whining about no new maps. Now all I read is whining because the new maps aren't good enough. And I'm sure everybody with an opinion on these maps has tested them thoroughly on the PTR so they must be right.
PTR is there for a reason. No need to form bias on a map before you even try it.
If you look at the feedback when people saw the new GSL maps and the ICCUP maps they were almost all positive. It's not about people always complaining, it's about the fact that Blizzard just can't make maps.
Also it's not hard to look at a map preview and figure out what will happen on the specific map. And those bs maps are nothing but cheese maps.
Use the GSL maps / ICCUP maps for crying out loud. they are 100 times better!
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Am I the only one who is concerned about the Team matchmaking? I really hope that patch note means AT vs AT and RT vs RT
Also, New LT looks awesome. Gotta try that one out.
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Well I guess if the rocks turn out to work alright I'll be happily surprised, I've just never played a map and gone "oh thank god these rocks are here."
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Come on guys lets give these a chance. Blizzard did what the community asked, lets just sit and enjoy the ride. At least we know blizzard is trying to help the game, these maps are definitely a improvement from what we already have.
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On February 05 2011 00:16 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 23:44 Rareware wrote:On February 04 2011 22:49 syllogism wrote:On February 04 2011 22:39 Integra wrote:On February 04 2011 22:35 FryKt wrote:
All of you who are defending BLizzard with all your might, just why? Why do you do that?
Blizzard should do all they can to get us to stay" keep playing the game, buy expansions etc, play ladder" They are NOT doing us a favor in adding new maps, you make this seem like they are giving us a gift or something. OF COUSE THEY SHOULD ADD NEW MAPS IN FUCKING 6 MONTHS WHEN EVERYONE HATES THEM. Why the fuck they haven't yet is a mystery.
Every one cries for bigger more sc1 maps, So why don't they fucking copy some from sc1, make them a little different, and keep some of the smaller ones we have now. So the noobies who don't like big maps can just vote them down, and vice versa. They try to balance everything over maps who the majority hates.
And now they try to make some new maps, but I mean they fail. The first one, okei lost temple fixed. Which actually are a map old as rock. But it's one of the best with xelnaga and Shakruas( but shakuras have those f'ing backdoors)
And when they make new maps, they put in all kind of shit, like rocks on every fucking expansion, grass everywhere so you don't see shit, but that's okei becouse there are 43572942 Xelnaga towers showing you when the opponents scv's are taking a shitbreak.
TL.DR:
Blizzard are not doing us a favor, they are slow and try too much new. Start making maps which are more standard, THEN make all the rocks, grass and all that crap. So freaking good that it needs to be quoted. It's actually a pretty bad post. Embodies the typical entitlement that is so prevalent these days. I agree I don't see why people feel that raging on Internet forums will go anywhere. Wouldn't Blizzard be more open to listening if people made posts that did not include a bunch of insults? Nothing really seems to work, Blizzard just kinda marches to the beat of their own drum. It's pretty obvious for a long time we haven't been happy with the maps. Their stance was "that's like, your problem" meanwhile both the foreign community and GSL has been making some good maps for a long time, but the endeavor seems almost fruitless since they won't ever make it to ladder. and instead of acknowledge that they are like "okay here's some maps" And the maps aren't completely awful like some that we've been playing since forever, but they still aren't as good as what the community puts out, which we still won't have a good environment to practice them in. It's like they specifically try to keep us happy, but not too happy.
I extremely agree!
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On February 05 2011 00:55 red_b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 00:38 Defacer wrote:If I were them I would seriously look at their "balance team" and ask myself what the hell they are actually doing all day. balancing heart of the swarm. I think they figured out people are uninterested in paying for ladder maps and have moved on to their new opportunity to make money from us. we had a HUGE debate back in the beta about whether or not the community should be involved in balance decisions or whether blizzard should just ignore them. well, the ignore them crowd seems to have won. I wonder if they are happy? ultimately the PTR has been the biggest wasted opportunity I have ever seen. we have now gotten to test out shorter phoenix build time and a bunch of terrible maps. BTW blizz said this is a sneak peak, I wouldnt expect these maps to change significantly. they had an opportunity to test a stim nerf. but they didnt. they had an opportunity to test an ultra buff like a collision size reduction but they didnt. they had an opportunity to do something about 4 gate wars into war of the worlds in PvP but they didnt. to me, it's starting to look like major balance changes are going to cost us 40 dollars a piece.
Fuck man, a strategy where people are forced to pay for significant balance changes makes perfect sense, and is so fucking diabolical I didn't even consider it.
Doh!
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TestMap 1: Looks like LT and Python had a baby, I like it and think it will work just fine (except close positions will make it a little crazy ofc.
TestMap 2: depends on how big it actually is, i'm dling the PTR patch now and can't wait to play it. a possible hard third depending on spawns, but cross positions it will be ok imo.
TestMap3: looks alright, though the narrow passageways may be a blessing and a curse. It will make TvZ impossible to do with no tanks (which is good), but also an out of position force could easily be FG'd and then banelinged. this applies to all other matchups too, PvP will probably be more 4gate -> colo wars, and so on, just because space controlling splash damage units will be sooooooo strong. We'll just have to see on this one.
TestMap4: there are soooooooooo few bases I'm wary about it, but otherwise it might be good.
TestMap5: is actually New Antioch I believe? maybe its modified a bit. but it seems like close positions will be impossible to FE, maybe its way bigger than it looks though.
Overall I don't think they'll be too bad, but I think nearly that custom map makers like iccup have consistently done a better job in a shorter time frame in terms of maps design,
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On February 05 2011 01:10 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 00:55 red_b wrote:On February 05 2011 00:38 Defacer wrote:If I were them I would seriously look at their "balance team" and ask myself what the hell they are actually doing all day. balancing heart of the swarm. I think they figured out people are uninterested in paying for ladder maps and have moved on to their new opportunity to make money from us. we had a HUGE debate back in the beta about whether or not the community should be involved in balance decisions or whether blizzard should just ignore them. well, the ignore them crowd seems to have won. I wonder if they are happy? ultimately the PTR has been the biggest wasted opportunity I have ever seen. we have now gotten to test out shorter phoenix build time and a bunch of terrible maps. BTW blizz said this is a sneak peak, I wouldnt expect these maps to change significantly. they had an opportunity to test a stim nerf. but they didnt. they had an opportunity to test an ultra buff like a collision size reduction but they didnt. they had an opportunity to do something about 4 gate wars into war of the worlds in PvP but they didnt. to me, it's starting to look like major balance changes are going to cost us 40 dollars a piece. Fuck man, a strategy where people are forced to pay for significant balance changes makes perfect sense, and is so fucking diabolical I didn't even consider it. Doh!
The idea they'd do this is also.. silly. It does not match their history nor their intention to have SC2 be a viable e-sport.
You need to iterate this shit, that's what PTRs are for. It seems more helpful for all involved to operate under that assumption (which is not without precedent, see the infestor change for last patch).
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EPT
