Gretech-Kespa Negotiation Update

On October 04 2010 15:55 PrinceXizor wrote:
sounds like kespa trying to help its business partners and gretech not liking mbcs attitude and pulling the plug until mbc drops its attitude. no good can come from a stalemate on either side, and both sc1 and sc2 will suffer until mbc conceeds or gretech does. at least ogn will be good. and thats enough for me. (as it means sc1 will continue)

On October 04 2010 16:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:


well sounds like to me both MBC and Gretech are being bitches about each other.......Seems like a normal family to me.

Gretech:Dad
KeSPA:Mom
MBC:Renegade teen son
OGN:Younger brother who always gets what he wants.

this is my simple yet very crude analogy.

On October 04 2010 16:45 BLinD-RawR wrote:


Why would it be bad for sc2...both should survive.

On October 04 2010 16:21 ArvickHero wrote:

Really, MBC didn't do anything bad here, they complied with GOM's rules about not broadcasting games past August and so they did it. They just chose not to go into negotiations while their games were still broadcasting (whereas OGN took the initiative), so GOM gets pissy over it. Why the fuck they do, I don't even know, I can only guess they just want to kill the BW scene.

as for analogies, this is mine

KeSPA: Mom who raised the family by herself, made a lot of mistakes but was overall decent.
Gretech: Crack addict divorced father who just came out of jail and now wants full custody rights to the kids.
OGN: Kid who thinks its better to defer to the father to avoid conflict and ensure safety in the future
MBC: Kid who refuses to speak with the father.

On October 04 2010 16:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:


well sounds like to me both MBC and Gretech are being bitches about each other.......Seems like a normal family to me.

Gretech:Dad
KeSPA:Mom
MBC:Renegade teen son
OGN:Younger brother who always gets what he wants.

this is my simple yet very crude analogy.

On October 04 2010 16:21 ArvickHero wrote:

Really, MBC didn't do anything bad here, they complied with GOM's rules about not broadcasting games past August and so they did it. They just chose not to go into negotiations while their games were still broadcasting (whereas OGN took the initiative), so GOM gets pissy over it. Why the fuck they do, I don't even know, I can only guess they just want to kill the BW scene.

as for analogies, this is mine

KeSPA: Mom who raised the family by herself, made a lot of mistakes but was overall decent.
Gretech: Crack addict divorced father who just came out of jail and now wants full custody rights to the kids.
OGN: Kid who thinks its better to defer to the father to avoid conflict and ensure safety in the future
MBC: Kid who refuses to speak with the father.

On October 04 2010 18:29 nadafanboy42 wrote:

No, this is the right analogy:

KeSPA: Mom who is an alchoholic, sucks her children dry, beats them for no reason other then to feel in control and ran off with some random guy she picked up in a bar leaving her kids to fend for themselves then came crying back months later.
IEM: Random Guy
Gretech: Hard working upstanding real dad who made some mistakes but is overall decent, who tried to help look after the kids, who encouraged them to explore and nurture their talents and expand and go to international college. But Mom didn't like her kids leaving home so she accused dad of abuse and had the courts give her sole custody. But Dad got a great new lawyer who overturned the custody ruling and now he's back, and he ain't taking Mom's shit anymore.
Blizzard: Great new lawyer. Is he good, is he bad? Nobody knows but the fans like him just because he's on the poor Dad's side.
OGN: Eldest son who is smart, capable, and always ends up excelling at everything he does.
MBC: Youngest son who tries really hard but always ends up fumbling things up and making bad decisions.

On October 04 2010 18:37 ShadeR wrote:

Hate to post a oneliner but seriously... lolwut?!

On October 04 2010 18:29 nadafanboy42 wrote:

No, this is the right analogy:

KeSPA: Mom who is an alchoholic, sucks her children dry, beats them for no reason other then to feel in control and ran off with some random guy she picked up in a bar leaving her kids to fend for themselves then came crying back months later.
IEG: Random guy
Gretech: Hard working upstanding real dad who made some mistakes but is overall decent, who tried to help look after the kids, who encouraged them to explore and nurture their talents and expand and go to international college. But Mom didn't like her kids leaving home so she accused dad of abuse and had the courts give her sole custody. But Dad got a great new lawyer who overturned the custody ruling and now he's back, and he ain't taking Mom's shit anymore.
Blizzard: Great new lawyer. Is he good, is he bad? Nobody knows but the fans like him just because he's on the poor Dad's side.
OGN: Eldest son who is smart, capable, and always ends up excelling at everything he does.
MBC: Youngest son who tries really hard but always ends up fumbling things up and making bad decisions.

who tried to help look after the kids, who encouraged them to explore and nurture their talents and expand and go to international college.

On October 04 2010 18:29 nadafanboy42 wrote:

No, this is the right analogy:

KeSPA: Mom who is an alchoholic, sucks her children dry, beats them for no reason other then to feel in control and ran off with some random guy she picked up in a bar leaving her kids to fend for themselves then came crying back months later.
IEG: Random guy
Gretech: Hard working upstanding real dad who made some mistakes but is overall decent, who tried to help look after the kids, who encouraged them to explore and nurture their talents and expand and go to international college. But Mom didn't like her kids leaving home so she accused dad of abuse and had the courts give her sole custody. But Dad got a great new lawyer who overturned the custody ruling and now he's back, and he ain't taking Mom's shit anymore.
Blizzard: Great new lawyer. Is he good, is he bad? Nobody knows but the fans like him just because he's on the poor Dad's side.
OGN: Eldest son who is smart, capable, and always ends up excelling at everything he does.
MBC: Youngest son who tries really hard but always ends up fumbling things up and making bad decisions.

On October 04 2010 19:10 Kishkumen wrote:
I am I the only one who feels like this situation is way more complicated than I can make judgments about? It seems like lots of people are trying to make things black and white when to me it all looks pretty gray. I guess everyone needs heroes and villains.

On October 04 2010 20:06 Holgerius wrote:
Aside from fucking us fans over, can you imagine how it would feel for the actual players if Gretech successfully killed off BW? They have pretty much devoted their life to playing this game for fucks sake. Goddamnit.

On October 04 2010 20:19 aimaimaim wrote:
we should just all wait for the PL to kick in and see how its going to appeal to the mass. The death of BW will not be by the hands of companies but by the fans themselves .. if people doesn't like BW anymore, then its done :D

On October 04 2010 21:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:


Both of them are being stubborn...no need to point one side when the other side also is wrong.

MBC refused to negotiate with gretech just as much as gretech refused MBC.Gretech now only speaks to OGN and KeSPA(sort of)....

On October 04 2010 21:18 Telcontar wrote:
300,000,000 won is about $260,000 right? thats a lot of money...

On October 04 2010 22:18 infinity2k9 wrote:
It's funny when people say omg the prize money is so big! SC2 is huge already! When now some of the money is directly coming from the BW scene to even support it, instead of real sponsors they actually got themselves.. over-charging for low quality streams/vods, taking money from OGN/MBC... does this sound like a self-sufficient successful scene to you?

On October 04 2010 21:18 Telcontar wrote:
300,000,000 won is about $260,000 right? thats a lot of money...

On October 04 2010 17:20 GTR wrote:
i guess i'll ask in here since all the translators on staff are away.

a) estro situation (start of october already)
b) savior's sentence for match fixing
c) any interviews post-chuseok for effort?

On October 04 2010 16:27 shannn wrote:
I can't understand why they don't want to negotiate with MBC. They complied with the rules Gretech set out (playing till end of August) yet Gretech still get angry about MBC even though complied with their rules.

And Kespa paying 300.000.000 won for PL/MSL/OSL for a year isn't quite what I expected but still shows me that they earn more than that a year (probably way more) but still willing to pay a huge fee seems to me that Gretech is very greedy.

On the other hand they have an agreement with OGN for a small fee so this makes me wonder what really does go in Gretech's mind. They are angry because MBC didn't want to negotiate with Gretech untill the deadline (end of August) instead of negotiating during the season or something?

Both parties not coming to an agreement will hurt E-Sports and I hope it won't get worse than it is now.

On October 04 2010 22:18 infinity2k9 wrote:
It's funny when people say omg the prize money is so big! SC2 is huge already! When now some of the money is directly coming from the BW scene to even support it, instead of real sponsors they actually got themselves.. over-charging for low quality streams/vods, taking money from OGN/MBC... does this sound like a self-sufficient successful scene to you?

On October 05 2010 02:06 Thurokiir wrote:


They offered to pay out just above the amount of prizes for a single GSL season.

Hardly a "big fee".

On October 04 2010 16:55 kawatan wrote:


sc1 pros considering the shift to sc2 might just stay-depriving sc2 of readily available talent. by keeping the sc2 field mediocre it'll follow the same path of sc1 tournaments that were exclusively for women.

On October 04 2010 19:10 Kishkumen wrote:
I am I the only one who feels like this situation is way more complicated than I can make judgments about? It seems like lots of people are trying to make things black and white when to me it all looks pretty gray. I guess everyone needs heroes and villains.

On October 05 2010 03:24 cerebralz wrote:
According to how this story is posted, I really don't see the fault in what Gretech is doing. This is assuming there isn't any meaning lost in translation.

They are the sole entity capable of sub contracting the rights to SCBW. OGN realizes this and negotiates quickly: good business model. MBC decides they rather take their chances and ignore the negotiating process risking legal action: poor business model.

It seems like the money really is a non-issue, since the amount really is very small in the corporate world. The bigger issue is just MBC not recognizing the authority of Gretech. If Gretech lets it go, it would set a terrible precedent not only for the remainder of BW but for SC2 as well, which is the future. If they are the only ones with the broadcast rights, they should act like it and protect that fact. If they show weakness or sloppiness in exercising their rights, no one should pay attention to them at all.

They are relatively new in the BW as a corporate entity, but that doesn't exclude them for having the final authority licensed by blizzard. The best thing for the industry, is for the players to recognize this fact and follow suit.

On October 04 2010 23:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:

It may sound like a lot but relevant to the situation here it is really not much at all.

On October 05 2010 05:45 Selith wrote:
Some notes were left off from OP's post. As a result, it made Gretech look bit more evil than they should really be.

The article's reporter said:

1. Gretech have stated during 5th negotiation that as long as KeSPA and others recognize intellectual property ownership of SC1 to Gretech, Gretech would allow SC1 Proleague for a very small fee. This offer was made by Gretech first. [The article reporter] believes Gretech is more interested in getting IP ownership recognized rather than the money.

2. Reason why Gretech does not want to deal with MBC is because MBC is already deciding what date next season's prelims would start, as well as preparing to force the league while negotiations weren't even complete. So, [reporter believes] Gretech does not wish to acknowledge MBCGame as one of the official Proleague platform because MBCGame does not appear to respect Gretech's IP.

3. [Reporter believes] KeSPA's position can be understood as, not only they will not accept MBCGame being excluded, all IP-related negotiations relating to Proleague/Starleague will be done within KeSPA.

On October 05 2010 04:32 Legace wrote:



Oh yes.

I've been "behind the scenes" of quite a few things that has been printed in the 'press' - not to claim I had anything to do with these things but I had, on these occasions, a extremely good insight on what really happend. Point being, things are always a lot more complicated and deeper then what the we - the public will ever know. It's business and it's rational - unlike some of the comments made here.

On October 05 2010 07:25 Nightfall.589 wrote:
I find it very amusing every time someone brings up a corporation and the word "Greed" in the same sentence.

The purpose of a corporation is to...

Wait for it...

Make money for their shareholders.

Now, it may be that "Playing nice" will end up making more money for Gretech's shareholders, then antagonising MBC. If you're going to argue that, argue that, instead of accusing a company of being greedy. That's like accusing water of being wet.

On October 05 2010 04:54 Milkis wrote:
KeSPA charged IEG something like 1,700,000,000 won for 3 years of broadcasting rights
KeSPA/IEG charged OGN/MBC 750,000,000 won each for 3 years of broadcasting rights of Proleague

On October 05 2010 07:47 moopie wrote:

Citation needed.

On October 05 2010 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
OGN is the big winner here, they are going to get broadcasting rights alot cheaper than through kespa and they will be on gretechs good side (which is good considering gretech will ultimately win any dispute in court if it comes to it)

On October 05 2010 07:48 Lightwip wrote:
You know, sticking up for MBC really shows that KeSPA does what it has to do and protect the companies involved in the scene.
Proves they actually serve a legitimate purpose.

On October 05 2010 04:39 So no fek wrote:
That's pretty lame by Gretech.

I think it was a bit of a sneaky move by MBC to move up their entire schedule, while not trying to negotiate, but I don't see anything wrong with it. If Gretech really cared so much about it, they should have made the deadline a date closer to when negotiations were going on. If MBC continued past that, I could see some justification in their decision. But nope, MBC just altered their schedule to close before the date that they were told they had to stop broadcasting by. It's Gretech's fault for not seeing that as a likely outcome.

I'm curious as to what "small" fee they want OGN to pay. If it's significantly less than the 250k, then I see no reason for them not to take it and let MBC/OGN broadcast.

On October 05 2010 07:56 PrinceXizor wrote:

Or just proves that the Corporations involved in kespa have invested in MBC and do not want to lose money.

On October 05 2010 08:06 Shikyo wrote:

Gretech, out of good will, let MBC operate to the end of August without needing to pay, even though they had every right to make them pay. What MBC did was extremely rude and disrespectful, I'm not sure why people think Gretech isn't being rationale here.

On October 05 2010 07:55 moopie wrote:

Again, you are assuming how the Korean courts would handle this, assuming that the matter goes to court. These assumptions are all well and good, but they are far from factual.

On October 05 2010 07:35 robertdinh wrote:


Just because your goal is to make money for your shareholders doesn't mean that that is valid justification for terrible business ethics.

Some corporations hold themselves to a higher standard, it's about making money, but doing it the right way.

On October 05 2010 08:23 Vedic wrote:


Err, what? South Korea is more nazi about copyright laws than the US, and Activision has more than enough money to bury anyone they want. South Korea is big on supporting IP rights, and there are only a few "fair use" exceptions - none of which KeSPA qualify for.

Your post represents the denial of most Brood War fanboys, where you don't actually contribute to the conversation, and instead just try to make it seem like "NOBODY KNOWS". You seem to assume that South Korea is in some kind of judicial stone age, even though they're just as advanced as most nations.

On October 05 2010 08:42 moopie wrote:

Putting the dismissive attitude of your post aside, no I don't think its as clear cut as you do clearly. I didn't claim that nobody knows, but you or I certainly don't, since we don't even have all the facts on hand, let alone full knowledge of past agreements and interactions between KeSPA and Blizzard (besides what was reported regarding the 2007 reselling of rights and the articles of the power struggle this past year). Since I'm not looking to get in a long repetitive argument discussing what has already been discussed on this forum many times before and you are clearly an experienced Korean copyright attorney with full facts on the case I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

On October 05 2010 08:44 aimaimaim wrote:

also SK being Nazi about IP rights .. source?? proof? all of what you said are just speculations. they dont have agencies listing the websites you visit, they dont have a very active organization like the M.P.A.A., they dont have a president who sides with big companies when comes to destroying/blocking file-sharing and file-sharing websites.

On October 05 2010 09:11 moopie wrote:

Yes, like this:

And since KeSPA is a non-profit organization ("an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals"), and no fees are charged from the audience for any events, this isn't such a simple cut and dry case. As for reselling rights, it also isn't such an easy ruling since the rights are sold to broadcast events in which players using a tool they have purchased and whether or not what they do with it is copyrighted. Does adobe own my art? this discussion can go on and on (and already has in the past), I think I'm done here.

On October 05 2010 09:15 urashimakt wrote:

Make sure you read that very carefully. I don't believe Blizzard ever went non-profit with Starcraft 1, so that work is not available for others.

On October 05 2010 09:44 aimaimaim wrote:


"LIMITATIONS TO AUTHOR'S PROPERTY RIGHTS"

Blizzard/Gretech, from what i've understand, cant sue kespa because what kespa falls under the limitation. or does kespa charge people for the show??? are they pay-per-view??

does SC fall under cinematography??


bah .. this is the problem .. there isn't any clear law that actually states that its prohibits the use a program/software and the product of that program/software be broadcasted. this can only be sorted out if there is going to be a new law specifically for this or use any existing laws about broadcasting sports and recreational activities.

On October 05 2010 09:58 urashimakt wrote:

None of the limitations listed apply to Starcraft 1 as an intellectual property. KeSPA isn't immune to lawsuits solely due to its status as a non-profit organization. These laws are actually fairly straightforward, though anyone would admit the language used is tedious. That's just how those lawyer jerks do things.

On October 05 2010 10:02 aimaimaim wrote:


im not saying they are immune, im just saying that they might have leverage when it goes down to courts. thats why im asking if they were actually charging for pay per view and/or staged events.

On October 05 2010 11:27 cerebralz wrote:
Look at it this way. In a few years or so, SC2 will be crushing BW if not totally extinguishing it in popularity. If Gretech is nonchalant about their IP rights with what exists now, what stops Kespa in a few years time of saying: "Well, SC2 is popular, we want to control it illegally just like BW."

It's bad business all around if they let MBC slide. Kind of like letting someone trespass on your property continually and not calling the cops. If years later you want to get them out because they started building stuff and taking your land, it's very hard to do because over the years your non-action was considered consent.

On October 05 2010 11:27 cerebralz wrote:
Look at it this way. In a few years or so, SC2 will be crushing BW if not totally extinguishing it in popularity. If Gretech is nonchalant about their IP rights with what exists now, what stops Kespa in a few years time of saying: "Well, SC2 is popular, we want to control it illegally just like BW."

On October 05 2010 09:11 moopie wrote:

Yes, like this:

And since KeSPA is a non-profit organization ("an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals"), and no fees are charged from the audience for any events, this isn't such a simple cut and dry case. As for reselling rights, it also isn't such an easy ruling since the rights are sold to broadcast events in which players using a tool they have purchased and whether or not what they do with it is copyrighted. Does adobe own my art? this discussion can go on and on (and already has in the past), I think I'm done here.

On October 05 2010 12:01 Raz0r wrote:
How does Gretech have intellectual property rights of Broodwar, when Blizzard made the game? Am I not understanding something here? Please fill me in.

On October 05 2010 14:16 suchanx7 wrote:
hahahahahaha i cant believe whats happening here

you guys should know the ugly korean underground system.
its just another dirty turf war that came-outta-nowhere organization is trying to claim what's never been theirs in the first place

On October 05 2010 17:31 Tomred87 wrote:
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't KeSPA screw Gretech pretty damn hard in the past? By not sanctioning their league officially or something? And Gretech couldn't upkeep their tournament because of that and had to shut it down?

It's difficult to say anyone's really in this to save E-sports. No matter how you look at it, everyone is trying to preserve their own existence. It just so happens that Gretech is the one asking for money and KeSPA is the one refusing to pay it.

On October 05 2010 02:06 Thurokiir wrote:


They offered to pay out just above the amount of prizes for a single GSL season.

Hardly a "big fee".

안녕하세요. (사)한국e스포츠협회입니다.
게임단 및 선수 개인 요청에 의한 프로게이머 자격변경 명단을 공지합니다.
감사합니다.


# 은퇴

▶ 관련규정 : 프로게이머 등록규정 _ 제18조 (프로게이머의 자격 취소)
① 프로게이머 또는 준프로게이머가 개인사정으로 자격을 취소하고자 할 때에는 협회에 자격 취소 신청서를 제출하여 자격을 취소할수 있다.
② 자격 취소 신청은 연중 상시로 신청가능하며, 협회는 자격 취소 신청을 통해 자격이 말소된 프로게이머를 홈페이지를 통해 공지한다.
③ 자격 취소를 한 프로게이머는 공인게임대회에 참가할 수 없으며 그 기간은 아래와 같다.
가. 정기적으로 개최되는 프로화 된 리그가 존재하는 종목 : 3년
나. 정기적으로 개최되는 프로화 된 리그가 존재하지 않는 종목 : 1년
④ 자격 취소를 한 준프로게이머는 1년 동안 자격을 재취득 할 수 없다.

▶ 기준일자 : 2010년 10월 5일

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On October 05 2010 22:03 ShadeR wrote:


Is this what your refering to? Google translate is a bit ambiguous for me =/

On October 05 2010 23:57 maybenexttime wrote:


Dude, get a grip. To be a progamer, you have to be on a KeSPA sanctioned progaming team. NaDa did not renew his contract with WeMade because they do not have an SC2 line-up.

On October 06 2010 05:41 biskit wrote:
Also people seem to forget that it was KeSPA who forced NaDa to pull out from his SC2 showmatch with TLO. There is no justification for that, why would an organisation have the power to control which games you're allowed to play.

On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T

On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:


No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them.

On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:


No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them.

On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.

Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.

There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.

I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa.

On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.

Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.

There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.

I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa.

On October 06 2010 10:48 zenMaster wrote:

I don't understand why some of you bash KeSPA with all your might, we all know Korean netizens are the most critical group on the internet.

Do you find it absurd that KeSPA disallow the progamers that they pay, feed and house to publicly play SC2? KeSPA pays, feeds, houses progamers to play BroodWar, not some shitty game with "StarCraft" in the name.

NaDa is treated like a legend, icon, role model in BW even though he can't compete with the young guys anymore. I'm pretty sure getting everything paid to coach young players, do PR, and sit on the bench looking pretty during matches is treating him badly. People still bow down before him for god sakes.

On October 05 2010 08:23 Vedic wrote:


Err, what? South Korea is more nazi about copyright laws than the US, and Activision has more than enough money to bury anyone they want. South Korea is big on supporting IP rights, and there are only a few "fair use" exceptions - none of which KeSPA qualify for.

On October 06 2010 11:54 toadstool wrote:


I can't believe you're not getting warnings for your comments. Starcraft 2 is not a shitty game, it's a good game that followed the best game that ever came out.

On October 06 2010 13:36 palexhur wrote:
When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports.

On October 06 2010 13:36 palexhur wrote:
When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports.

On October 06 2010 11:54 toadstool wrote:


I can't believe you're not getting warnings for your comments. Starcraft 2 is not a shitty game, it's a good game that followed the best game that ever came out.

I think you're taking your gretech hate too seriously. I mean, all our old favourite pro gamers are switching over to SC2, 80% of SC talk on this forum is on SC2 and you throw that around.


And they did treat Nada badly, Nada wasn't going anywhere in BW anymore. The fact that he changed games shouldn't affect what he's done in the past for KESPA.

I lost all respect for KESPA as an organisation after that. It seems they're just being vindictive.

On October 06 2010 14:00 AlBundy wrote:


Are you talking about KeSPA and NaDa ? I thought KeSPA was a non-profit association... Hmm I might want to re-read all these threads before posting more.

On October 06 2010 14:20 Loanshark wrote:
It's a shitty game which people only play because it followed the best RTS ever made. The Starcraft 2 scene is what is simply because it has Starcraft in the name. Only reason why the pros switched over. If we changed the names of the units, the name of the game, and the names of Raynor, Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, no one would give a shit about this game.

On October 06 2010 14:22 palexhur wrote:


From where the money comes?, please be logical, the sponsor companies (Kespa) give the money , if their profit is only advertising (and not some money figures in the annual sheet) for their companies or products , let them be. Btw I am refering to people who says that Kespa has no right to cancel the showmatch of Nada, He and whoever signs a contract with Kespa is tied to that. On the other hand of course if Nada didnt want to renew the contract and want to play pacman, chess, SC2 or whatever, It is his choice. At the end I suposse Kespa felt betrayed because Nada was an icon and He was in a big salary because of that, not because right now He had any real chance of winning anything in the pro-scene.

On October 06 2010 15:07 biskit wrote:


Yes, million of people will play Blizzard game even if they change all the names. Tell me which Blizzard game is not ridiculously successful?
[...]

On October 06 2010 16:04 ffreakk wrote:
Starcrap2 now belong to them n shits.

On October 06 2010 20:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:


why do we still have these kinds of posters?

and Ryo,you can't just say that Gretech wants to kill BW off...They just want control over it its not the same thing it just leads to the death of brood war in sometime(not relatively soon) in the future.

nothing that has happened so far really proves that Gretech wants to kill BW.

On October 06 2010 20:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:


why do we still have these kinds of posters?

and Ryo,you can't just say that Gretech wants to kill BW off...They just want control over it its not the same thing it just leads to the death of brood war in sometime(not relatively soon) in the future.

nothing that has happened so far really proves that Gretech wants to kill BW.

On October 07 2010 01:28 BLinD-RawR wrote:


Facepalm....

forgot about this....my logic is flawed.

apologies.

On October 05 2010 00:23 pR0gR4m3R wrote:


a) Dunno nothing yet. Seems like house could be still closed. Maybe Artosis/Tasteless could provide us with more "in site" info

b) Sentence will be this Oct 6th

c) As a big "Neo Messiah" fan, couldnt find any interviews for the last days. Personally I hope he could make like ex-Woongjin´s MVP, when this last one said to leave Stars for retirement, and then, few days later, gets into a Sc2 team and really to play this Oct qualification

Regards

On October 06 2010 16:29 biskit wrote:
Quality is subjective. But if you want to play by the numbers, SC2 got 93 from Metacritics, and 92.29% from gamerankings. BW got 92% from gamerankings (combining PC and Mac version).

The game is not balanced yet. BW wasn't balanced yet either when it first came out.

Starcrap... lol

On October 07 2010 01:11 supernovamaniac wrote:


"Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end." - 4th negotiation.

On October 07 2010 07:05 ImbaTosS wrote:
By the same token, let's all go be Red Dead Redemption pros...

We also all know how underrated BW was at the time. What was it they said... "Warcraft in space"..?

On October 07 2010 08:35 biskit wrote:


I don't understand what you mean by "Red Dead Redemption pros" ? (I heard it's a good game, haven't played it)

It's just people's opinions thinking SC2 is crap without being able to prove it by any means because actually the game is lauded universally by the media and a huge commercial success. It is the fastest selling RTS game of all time.

I don't think BW was underrated, it got pretty high rating as it is. And they called it as they see it, Warcraft in space which was the initial intention of developers pre-alpha build.

But yeah, neither my opinion nor the opinion of the mass can change anyone's opinion here. I prefer some objectivity when debating matter, otherwise opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.

Check out the WC3 scene, it doesnt even have 10% the amount of hype/skill/spectating value compared to BW. Not to mention is heavily unbalanced (theres not a single player at the top that plays Undead.. Night Elf, Human, n now Orc took turn to be overpowered, but nvr before has all 3 of them been in perfect balance). Hell even a WC3 custom maps is owning the actual game in terms of popularity right now (DotA aka Defense of the Ancients).. It is probably for this reaon (that Blizz cant cash in on DotA's popularity at all) that they made their new shitty rule about all Custom Maps in Starcrap2 now belong to them n shits.

On October 06 2010 13:02 HunterX11 wrote:


Activision is a pauper compared to the companies that sponsor Brood War. Hell, even Vivendi SA is a small fish compared to Samsung alone. Don't forget that the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is on KeSPA's side, too. If the IP question comes to a head in South Korea, it is far more likely than anything that publishers will lose their claim to own the sole rights to broadcast footage of their games being played.

On October 07 2010 11:34 crazeman wrote:

What he's trying to say is that its retarded to compare how balanced and good a game is based on meta critic. Reviewers typically review the game the week it comes out and their rating is never based on multiplayer or long term balance related issues.

On October 04 2010 16:21 ArvickHero wrote:

Really, MBC didn't do anything bad here, they complied with GOM's rules about not broadcasting games past August and so they did it. They just chose not to go into negotiations while their games were still broadcasting (whereas OGN took the initiative), so GOM gets pissy over it. Why the fuck they do, I don't even know, I can only guess they just want to kill the BW scene.

as for analogies, this is mine

KeSPA: Mom who raised the family by herself, made a lot of mistakes but was overall decent.
Gretech: Crack addict divorced father who just came out of jail and now wants full custody rights to the kids.
OGN: Kid who thinks its better to defer to the father to avoid conflict and ensure safety in the future
MBC: Kid who refuses to speak with the father.

On October 07 2010 11:43 toadstool wrote:


Who cares which company is bigger. Just because Samsung is a lot larger, doesn't mean that they'll be directing 100% of their resources into Progaming. I mean, if Samsung did they would own the market.

Activision's main business is gaming. Blizzard has a vested interest in making Starcraft 2 a successful e-sport. I think for KT and Samsung etc., they don't care except to see e-sport as a marketing cost.

On October 07 2010 12:53 biskit wrote:


Geez, how many times do people need to say it? Starcraft 1 didn't become balance after 3 months. It was only "balanced" after Brood War came.

It's only fair to judge SC2 after its expansions out before you cry about its balance.

Edit: Looking at this chart made by choboPEon, I don't understand how you can call BW balanced.


Chart Sources: Liquipedia.net, KeSPA Rankings

On October 07 2010 12:23 ffreakk wrote:
If they were to sue Kespa, to which Samsung is a part of (along with many other big dudes), its not just a matter of the Brood War branch anymore, if they successfully get sued by some other firm and it makes it to the news, it ll hit the firm's image pretty hard, and so they will be putting in some efforts to stop Activision from winning.. And again in case u didnt realise, Activision is rather small compared to Kespa ppl.

On October 07 2010 17:14 ptz wrote:


This is childish thinking at most. If it makes it to court Samsung and the other big fish are already losers, because it will get huge in the media and they will lose face whether they win or lose. And they have slim chances of winning, so what they are going to do is actually cut a deal, as good a deal as they can get, and keep it from escalating. It's the best thing that they can do, Kespa will fold in the end, simply because Blizzard is willing to go all the way for their IP rights, while they aren't. Kespa means nothing actually, just the interests of some companies, and when those companies decide that things went too far they will back down and make a compromise. The more they act tough the more Gretech will fistfuck them.

And they have slim chances of winning