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On October 06 2010 05:41 biskit wrote:
Also people seem to forget that it was KeSPA who forced NaDa to pull out from his SC2 showmatch with TLO. There is no justification for that, why would an organisation have the power to control which games you're allowed to play.
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
On October 06 2010 06:17 biskit wrote:
It might make sense to you, but I find that really petty for a professional organization.
Let him do what he wants, after all they allowed him to fly there and play, no? And later decided to change their mind.
He was at the convention to promote WeMade's game... Man, read about the issue first, then try to discuss it.
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On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service?
ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did.
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How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa.
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On October 06 2010 07:16 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service? ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did.
No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them.
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On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:16 Eury wrote:On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service? ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did. No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them.
That's some stupid logic there. All ESL can do is block Korean IPs. They can't control the rest of the world's internet. ESL did it to the best of their abilities and if KESPA expected some government firewall intervention, they were stupid and unreasonable.
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On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:16 Eury wrote:On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service? ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did. No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them.
It's pretty clear that KeSPA looked for any reason they could find to stop the game.
Are you also agreeing with their latest action taken against Nada that they are erasing his records? Are they going to do the same thing with Boxer? Not even netizens are defending KeSPA any longer, KeSPA has completely gone insane.
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On October 06 2010 07:53 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:On October 06 2010 07:16 Eury wrote:On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service? ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did. No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them. That's some stupid logic there. All ESL can do is block Korean IPs. They can't control the rest of the world's internet. ESL did it to the best of their abilities and if KESPA expected some government firewall intervention, they were stupid and unreasonable.
You know what's stupid? ESL agreeing to the terms they knew they couldn't meet and SC2 fanboys going apeshit over what happened afterwards.
On October 06 2010 07:53 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:On October 06 2010 07:16 Eury wrote:On October 06 2010 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:
It was ESL that blew it. KeSPA let NaDa play but ESL were supposed to make sure the match does not get broadcasted in Korea, they failed to ensure that. How can you seriously blame KeSPA here? ESL agreed to those terms, FFS... T___T
How the hell can ESL make sure that no one can watch a restream in Korea? Are they somehow going to force every stream service on the Internet to block everyone in Korea from their service? ESL agreed to not let Korean viewers access their stream, which apparently they did. No, they agreed that it's not going to get streamed in Korea at all. How they do that was irrelevant. KeSPA is not to blame here regardless of what happened afterwards. They actually let NaDa play in that showmatch at all, and they didn't even have to do that, considering how Blizzard/Gretech treat them. It's pretty clear that KeSPA looked for any reason they could find to stop the game. Are you also agreeing with their latest action taken against Nada that they are erasing his records? Are they going to do the same thing with Boxer? Not even netizens are defending KeSPA any longer, KeSPA has completely gone insane.
I'm pretty sure they did not. Not allowing the showmatch to happen at all wouldnt've been as bad PR as cancelling the showmatch while it was already taking place. It would've been better for KeSPA to not allow NaDa play in it at all an it was well within their power. They could've made excuse like "he was busy promoting Avalon."
I wholeheartedly disagree with this decision. I've been NaDa's fan ever since I've started following the BW progaming scene. I can't really understand what they tried to achieve here. NaDa parted with WeMade on good terms, he's a star player, other progamers weren't punished for switching (other than not being allowed to participate in KeSPA events, which is understandable).
I wish they retracted their (stupid) decision. Just because I'm siding with KeSPA when it comes to the Blizzard-KeSPA war, doesn't instantly mean I support their every decision.
As for netizens, I can't remember them ever defending KeSPA, no matter what Gretech/Blizzard did. They seem like a rather mindless/bandwagony folk to me.
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On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa.
I don't understand why some of you bash KeSPA with all your might, we all know Korean netizens are the most critical group on the internet.
Do you find it absurd that KeSPA disallow the progamers that they pay, feed and house to publicly play SC2? KeSPA pays, feeds, houses progamers to play BroodWar, not some shitty game with "StarCraft" in the name.
NaDa is treated like a legend, icon, role model in BW even though he can't compete with the young guys anymore. I'm pretty sure getting everything paid to coach young players, do PR, and sit on the bench looking pretty during matches is treating him badly. People still bow down before him for god sakes.
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On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa.
Korean netizens can hate on anything, there doesn't need to be a reason for them to bash someone. Tablo's saga anyone?
Nada was getting paid loads of money to play BW and promote the BW scene in Korea. Why shld Wemade or Kespa allow him to spend most of his time playing SC2? If you're a boss of a company and your highly paid employee tells you he'd like to spend his time promoting another company instead, what wld you do? I'd tell my employee to either stick with my company or quit. And if he quit, I wouldn't hire him again.
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On October 06 2010 10:48 zenMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa. I don't understand why some of you bash KeSPA with all your might, we all know Korean netizens are the most critical group on the internet. Do you find it absurd that KeSPA disallow the progamers that they pay, feed and house to publicly play SC2? KeSPA pays, feeds, houses progamers to play BroodWar, not some shitty game with "StarCraft" in the name. NaDa is treated like a legend, icon, role model in BW even though he can't compete with the young guys anymore. I'm pretty sure getting everything paid to coach young players, do PR, and sit on the bench looking pretty during matches is treating him badly. People still bow down before him for god sakes.
I can't believe you're not getting warnings for your comments. Starcraft 2 is not a shitty game, it's a good game that followed the best game that ever came out.
I think you're taking your gretech hate too seriously. I mean, all our old favourite pro gamers are switching over to SC2, 80% of SC talk on this forum is on SC2 and you throw that around.
And they did treat Nada badly, Nada wasn't going anywhere in BW anymore. The fact that he changed games shouldn't affect what he's done in the past for KESPA.
I lost all respect for KESPA as an organisation after that. It seems they're just being vindictive.
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what is wrong with u people? ofc they shouldnt allow him 2 play SCII if he has a contract for SC:BW srsly...
do u think football players are allowed 2 play official Baseball matches? dont freaking kid urself...
and the one above me oh yeah OLD SC:BW pros are switching because they do shit in SC:BW these days so they get to the next game where they can start winning again till they get raped by the young players again.
dont start with people like jaedong and flash because they say they will switch SOMEDAY because its obvious...
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On October 05 2010 08:23 Vedic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 07:55 moopie wrote:On October 05 2010 07:53 Selith wrote:On October 05 2010 07:47 moopie wrote:
Citation needed.
The matter that's going to go to court is about whether Blizzard owns IP to StarCraft 1 or if it is, as KeSPA said few months earlier, no one owns IP to StarCraft 1 and is for public use. I don't think any court would agree with what KeSPA said here. Blizzard clearly created StarCraft 1 as a private corporation using private money, so the game's IP belongs to Blizzard no matter what you do with StarCraft 1. Again, you are assuming how the Korean courts would handle this, assuming that the matter goes to court. These assumptions are all well and good, but they are far from factual. Err, what? South Korea is more nazi about copyright laws than the US, and Activision has more than enough money to bury anyone they want. South Korea is big on supporting IP rights, and there are only a few "fair use" exceptions - none of which KeSPA qualify for.
Activision is a pauper compared to the companies that sponsor Brood War. Hell, even Vivendi SA is a small fish compared to Samsung alone. Don't forget that the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is on KeSPA's side, too. If the IP question comes to a head in South Korea, it is far more likely than anything that publishers will lose their claim to own the sole rights to broadcast footage of their games being played.
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On October 06 2010 11:54 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:48 zenMaster wrote:On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa. I don't understand why some of you bash KeSPA with all your might, we all know Korean netizens are the most critical group on the internet. Do you find it absurd that KeSPA disallow the progamers that they pay, feed and house to publicly play SC2? KeSPA pays, feeds, houses progamers to play BroodWar, not some shitty game with "StarCraft" in the name. NaDa is treated like a legend, icon, role model in BW even though he can't compete with the young guys anymore. I'm pretty sure getting everything paid to coach young players, do PR, and sit on the bench looking pretty during matches is treating him badly. People still bow down before him for god sakes. I can't believe you're not getting warnings for your comments. Starcraft 2 is not a shitty game, it's a good game that followed the best game that ever came out.
OMG OMG someone disagrees with you, someone ban that bitch
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Well, like always a waiting game.
I just got MBC on my tv, and i'll be super said if i can't watch any sc on it 
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When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports.
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On October 06 2010 13:36 palexhur wrote:
When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports.
Are you talking about KeSPA and NaDa ? I thought KeSPA was a non-profit association... Hmm I might want to re-read all these threads before posting more.
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On October 06 2010 13:36 palexhur wrote:
When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports.
Kespa is not a private company. It is also a e sport regulator in korea. By comparison, NBA or NFL would never have the power to regulate other sports league such as NCAA or other local b teams.
Kespa is the creation of corruptions between the private business that sponsor korea's e sport and the Korean government who recognize Kespa as the regulator of all e sports.
This is why the GSL is currently an open tournament, and not an actual league with full time pro gamers licenses and salaries.
Last but not least, you have the right to "fire" your employee, but other companies also have the right to hire them as they see fit. Kespa does not allow free competition in the e sport industry. Therefore, noone can "hire" Nada in a competitive e sport. Which is why blizzard and gom are using GSL as a loop hole to try to buy pro gamers over to SC2.
This battle between blizzard and Kespa does not really leads to anywhere. Kespa bw broadcasting rights get threaten, meanwhile SC2 have yet to access to korea's TV broadcast, nor does it have kespa blessing to set up a real league with full time pro gamers salary.
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On October 06 2010 11:54 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:48 zenMaster wrote:On October 06 2010 07:28 biskit wrote:
How about consider how NaDa feels? How would you feel if you're not allowed to play a game you want to play? Would you be ok if somebody comes in the middle of your game and said, ok someone on the net did something so game's over for you.
Don't you find it wrong that they have the power to control which games people want to play? I never heard anywhere else, in any other game that an organization rules with such tyranny over their players. Professional gamers in other games can play whatever they want and moving on the game sequel is very natural (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3), they can play multiple games, or even move to competing games, Fatal1ty can play any game he wants. And he's sponsored by companies.
There must be a deep reason why NaDa rejected a renewal of his contract. Why reject a stable salary? He might be fed up by how they treat him. And they made him choose, ok you want to play SC2 so we won't allow you to play BW again and ban you arbitrarily for 3 years, why not allow him to play both? Never mind you're a BW legend, we'll delete your records from our database too now you've dirtied yourself with SC2 games.
I don't understand why some of you defend KeSPA with all your might, when even the Koreans netizens berate them for what they're doing to NaDa. I don't understand why some of you bash KeSPA with all your might, we all know Korean netizens are the most critical group on the internet. Do you find it absurd that KeSPA disallow the progamers that they pay, feed and house to publicly play SC2? KeSPA pays, feeds, houses progamers to play BroodWar, not some shitty game with "StarCraft" in the name. NaDa is treated like a legend, icon, role model in BW even though he can't compete with the young guys anymore. I'm pretty sure getting everything paid to coach young players, do PR, and sit on the bench looking pretty during matches is treating him badly. People still bow down before him for god sakes. I can't believe you're not getting warnings for your comments. Starcraft 2 is not a shitty game, it's a good game that followed the best game that ever came out. I think you're taking your gretech hate too seriously. I mean, all our old favourite pro gamers are switching over to SC2, 80% of SC talk on this forum is on SC2 and you throw that around. And they did treat Nada badly, Nada wasn't going anywhere in BW anymore. The fact that he changed games shouldn't affect what he's done in the past for KESPA. I lost all respect for KESPA as an organisation after that. It seems they're just being vindictive.
It's a shitty game which people only play because it followed the best RTS ever made. The Starcraft 2 scene is what is simply because it has Starcraft in the name. Only reason why the pros switched over. If we changed the names of the units, the name of the game, and the names of Raynor, Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, no one would give a shit about this game.
And the Gretech issue isn't about IP rights or copyrights anymore. Gretech themselves basically admitted that they just want to completely shut down Brood War so they can get more viewers. I'd much rather support Kespa, with all of its bad history, than Gretech and Activison/Blizzard.
Korea is the only place where esports has really taken root. The leagues, the channels, the players, the teams, the coaches, and by god, Kespa itself, didn't survive 10+ years by sucking balls.
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On October 06 2010 14:00 AlBundy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 13:36 palexhur wrote:
When I put the money I make the rules, It is as simple as that, If some employee in my company is promoting other products but mine, I got to tell you He will be fired right there. I am paying the worker from my pocket in order to get profits for the selling of my product not others, that applies at every bussines in the world, including e-sports. Are you talking about KeSPA and NaDa ? I thought KeSPA was a non-profit association... Hmm I might want to re-read all these threads before posting more.
From where the money comes?, please be logical, the sponsor companies (Kespa) give the money , if their profit is only advertising (and not some money figures in the annual sheet) for their companies or products , let them be. Btw I am refering to people who says that Kespa has no right to cancel the showmatch of Nada, He and whoever signs a contract with Kespa is tied to that. On the other hand of course if Nada didnt want to renew the contract and want to play pacman, chess, SC2 or whatever, It is his choice. At the end I suposse Kespa felt betrayed because Nada was an icon and He was in a big salary because of that, not because right now He had any real chance of winning anything in the pro-scene.
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On October 06 2010 14:20 Loanshark wrote:
It's a shitty game which people only play because it followed the best RTS ever made. The Starcraft 2 scene is what is simply because it has Starcraft in the name. Only reason why the pros switched over. If we changed the names of the units, the name of the game, and the names of Raynor, Zeratul, Kerrigan, Mengsk, no one would give a shit about this game.
Yes, million of people will play Blizzard game even if they change all the names. Tell me which Blizzard game is not ridiculously successful?
Only reason why pros switched over? Lol, how about money and recognition are the bigger reasons? Isn't that the reason why they become BW progamers in the first place? Or maybe they do it because they enjoy playing game? Or maybe they moved on because they don't like being controlled by KeSPA like slaves?
Anyway BroodWar is made by Blizzard, apparently an evil entity in your standard, so you shouldn't support it by not playing or spectating it. You should go and watch the game KeSPA creates itself.
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EPT
