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On October 07 2010 08:35 biskit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 07:05 ImbaTosS wrote:
By the same token, let's all go be Red Dead Redemption pros...
We also all know how underrated BW was at the time. What was it they said... "Warcraft in space"..?
I don't understand what you mean by "Red Dead Redemption pros" ? (I heard it's a good game, haven't played it) It's just people's opinions thinking SC2 is crap without being able to prove it by any means because actually the game is lauded universally by the media and a huge commercial success. It is the fastest selling RTS game of all time. I don't think BW was underrated, it got pretty high rating as it is. And they called it as they see it, Warcraft in space which was the initial intention of developers pre-alpha build. But yeah, neither my opinion nor the opinion of the mass can change anyone's opinion here. I prefer some objectivity when debating matter, otherwise opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.
What he's trying to say is that its retarded to compare how balanced and good a game is based on meta critic. Reviewers typically review the game the week it comes out and their rating is never based on multiplayer or long term balance related issues.
Check out the WC3 scene, it doesnt even have 10% the amount of hype/skill/spectating value compared to BW. Not to mention is heavily unbalanced (theres not a single player at the top that plays Undead.. Night Elf, Human, n now Orc took turn to be overpowered, but nvr before has all 3 of them been in perfect balance). Hell even a WC3 custom maps is owning the actual game in terms of popularity right now (DotA aka Defense of the Ancients).. It is probably for this reaon (that Blizz cant cash in on DotA's popularity at all) that they made their new shitty rule about all Custom Maps in Starcrap2 now belong to them n shits.
I didn't follow the WC3 or BW scene much but do you think that its at least a little bit of fluke that blizzard managed to stumble onto this "perfect balance" in BW? I'm not sure how hard blizzard worked on balancing WC3 when compared to BW but it seems like to me that every game ever made strives for the "perfect balance" and BW is pretty much the only one to hit it right on the spot.
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On October 06 2010 13:02 HunterX11 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 08:23 Vedic wrote:On October 05 2010 07:55 moopie wrote:On October 05 2010 07:53 Selith wrote:On October 05 2010 07:47 moopie wrote:
Citation needed.
The matter that's going to go to court is about whether Blizzard owns IP to StarCraft 1 or if it is, as KeSPA said few months earlier, no one owns IP to StarCraft 1 and is for public use. I don't think any court would agree with what KeSPA said here. Blizzard clearly created StarCraft 1 as a private corporation using private money, so the game's IP belongs to Blizzard no matter what you do with StarCraft 1. Again, you are assuming how the Korean courts would handle this, assuming that the matter goes to court. These assumptions are all well and good, but they are far from factual. Err, what? South Korea is more nazi about copyright laws than the US, and Activision has more than enough money to bury anyone they want. South Korea is big on supporting IP rights, and there are only a few "fair use" exceptions - none of which KeSPA qualify for. Activision is a pauper compared to the companies that sponsor Brood War. Hell, even Vivendi SA is a small fish compared to Samsung alone. Don't forget that the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is on KeSPA's side, too. If the IP question comes to a head in South Korea, it is far more likely than anything that publishers will lose their claim to own the sole rights to broadcast footage of their games being played.
Who cares which company is bigger. Just because Samsung is a lot larger, doesn't mean that they'll be directing 100% of their resources into Progaming. I mean, if Samsung did they would own the market.
Activision's main business is gaming. Blizzard has a vested interest in making Starcraft 2 a successful e-sport. I think for KT and Samsung etc., they don't care except to see e-sport as a marketing cost.
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If they were to sue Kespa, to which Samsung is a part of (along with many other big dudes), its not just a matter of the Brood War branch anymore, if they successfully get sued by some other firm and it makes it to the news, it ll hit the firm's image pretty hard, and so they will be putting in some efforts to stop Activision from winning.. And again in case u didnt realise, Activision is rather small compared to Kespa ppl.
@ crazeman
Yea i think its a fluke as well.. I mean, D2 had no need for balance, and despite the zillions of patches that WC3 received, all Blizz managed to do was giving the races (outside of Undead) turns to be overpowered.. Seeing how balanced BW is right now, Blizz obviously lucked out there.. And i wont count on them to luck out again.
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On October 07 2010 11:34 crazeman wrote:
What he's trying to say is that its retarded to compare how balanced and good a game is based on meta critic. Reviewers typically review the game the week it comes out and their rating is never based on multiplayer or long term balance related issues.
Geez, how many times do people need to say it? Starcraft 1 didn't become balance after 3 months. It was only "balanced" after Brood War came.
It's only fair to judge SC2 after its expansions out before you cry about its balance.
Edit: Looking at this chart made by choboPEon, I don't understand how you can call BW balanced.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/choboPEon/chart4j.jpg)
Chart Sources: Liquipedia.net, KeSPA Rankings
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On October 04 2010 16:21 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 16:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 04 2010 15:59 ArvickHero wrote:On October 04 2010 15:55 PrinceXizor wrote:
sounds like kespa trying to help its business partners and gretech not liking mbcs attitude and pulling the plug until mbc drops its attitude. no good can come from a stalemate on either side, and both sc1 and sc2 will suffer until mbc conceeds or gretech does. at least ogn will be good. and thats enough for me. (as it means sc1 will continue) MBC can't concede to anything lol, Gretech is just being a little bitch and wants to find some excuse to kill the BW scene. Bunch of bastards, I'm glad me and all of my friends deleted GOM player from our computers. well sounds like to me both MBC and Gretech are being bitches about each other.......Seems like a normal family to me. Gretech:Dad KeSPA:Mom MBC:Renegade teen son OGN:Younger brother who always gets what he wants. this is my simple yet very crude analogy. Really, MBC didn't do anything bad here, they complied with GOM's rules about not broadcasting games past August and so they did it. They just chose not to go into negotiations while their games were still broadcasting (whereas OGN took the initiative), so GOM gets pissy over it. Why the fuck they do, I don't even know, I can only guess they just want to kill the BW scene. as for analogies, this is mine KeSPA: Mom who raised the family by herself, made a lot of mistakes but was overall decent. Gretech: Crack addict divorced father who just came out of jail and now wants full custody rights to the kids. OGN: Kid who thinks its better to defer to the father to avoid conflict and ensure safety in the future MBC: Kid who refuses to speak with the father.
I think you're being too harsh on the dad in your analogy
it'd be more like the Dad who just disappeared early after birth and wasn't there to raise the kids, then shows up after they graduate from college
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On October 07 2010 11:43 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 13:02 HunterX11 wrote:On October 05 2010 08:23 Vedic wrote:On October 05 2010 07:55 moopie wrote:On October 05 2010 07:53 Selith wrote:On October 05 2010 07:47 moopie wrote:
Citation needed.
The matter that's going to go to court is about whether Blizzard owns IP to StarCraft 1 or if it is, as KeSPA said few months earlier, no one owns IP to StarCraft 1 and is for public use. I don't think any court would agree with what KeSPA said here. Blizzard clearly created StarCraft 1 as a private corporation using private money, so the game's IP belongs to Blizzard no matter what you do with StarCraft 1. Again, you are assuming how the Korean courts would handle this, assuming that the matter goes to court. These assumptions are all well and good, but they are far from factual. Err, what? South Korea is more nazi about copyright laws than the US, and Activision has more than enough money to bury anyone they want. South Korea is big on supporting IP rights, and there are only a few "fair use" exceptions - none of which KeSPA qualify for. Activision is a pauper compared to the companies that sponsor Brood War. Hell, even Vivendi SA is a small fish compared to Samsung alone. Don't forget that the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is on KeSPA's side, too. If the IP question comes to a head in South Korea, it is far more likely than anything that publishers will lose their claim to own the sole rights to broadcast footage of their games being played. Who cares which company is bigger. Just because Samsung is a lot larger, doesn't mean that they'll be directing 100% of their resources into Progaming. I mean, if Samsung did they would own the market. Activision's main business is gaming. Blizzard has a vested interest in making Starcraft 2 a successful e-sport. I think for KT and Samsung etc., they don't care except to see e-sport as a marketing cost.
For KT, SKT, and Woongjin(maybe others), I think there's a significant investment and you should expect that they'll defend it as well as they can.
Each of those companies is much larger than Activision, and the SK corp is damn huge(about half the revenue of Samsung).
On October 07 2010 12:53 biskit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 11:34 crazeman wrote:
What he's trying to say is that its retarded to compare how balanced and good a game is based on meta critic. Reviewers typically review the game the week it comes out and their rating is never based on multiplayer or long term balance related issues.
Geez, how many times do people need to say it? Starcraft 1 didn't become balance after 3 months. It was only "balanced" after Brood War came. It's only fair to judge SC2 after its expansions out before you cry about its balance. Edit: Looking at this chart made by choboPEon, I don't understand how you can call BW balanced. Chart Sources: Liquipedia.net, KeSPA Rankings
That's largely because of NaDa, Boxer, and oov, who were all terran but really used concepts that were universal. If you look at the total games played, it's as close to 50% in each MU as possible. There's a slight T>Z>P>T imbalance, but it's only very small.
That doesn't represent balance because the only thing that really matters is post-Savior.
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On October 07 2010 12:23 ffreakk wrote:
If they were to sue Kespa, to which Samsung is a part of (along with many other big dudes), its not just a matter of the Brood War branch anymore, if they successfully get sued by some other firm and it makes it to the news, it ll hit the firm's image pretty hard, and so they will be putting in some efforts to stop Activision from winning.. And again in case u didnt realise, Activision is rather small compared to Kespa ppl.
This is childish thinking at most. If it makes it to court Samsung and the other big fish are already losers, because it will get huge in the media and they will lose face whether they win or lose. And they have slim chances of winning, so what they are going to do is actually cut a deal, as good a deal as they can get, and keep it from escalating. It's the best thing that they can do, Kespa will fold in the end, simply because Blizzard is willing to go all the way for their IP rights, while they aren't. Kespa means nothing actually, just the interests of some companies, and when those companies decide that things went too far they will back down and make a compromise. The more they act tough the more Gretech will fistfuck them.
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On October 07 2010 17:14 ptz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 12:23 ffreakk wrote:
If they were to sue Kespa, to which Samsung is a part of (along with many other big dudes), its not just a matter of the Brood War branch anymore, if they successfully get sued by some other firm and it makes it to the news, it ll hit the firm's image pretty hard, and so they will be putting in some efforts to stop Activision from winning.. And again in case u didnt realise, Activision is rather small compared to Kespa ppl.
This is childish thinking at most. If it makes it to court Samsung and the other big fish are already losers, because it will get huge in the media and they will lose face whether they win or lose. And they have slim chances of winning, so what they are going to do is actually cut a deal, as good a deal as they can get, and keep it from escalating. It's the best thing that they can do, Kespa will fold in the end, simply because Blizzard is willing to go all the way for their IP rights, while they aren't. Kespa means nothing actually, just the interests of some companies, and when those companies decide that things went too far they will back down and make a compromise. The more they act tough the more Gretech will fistfuck them.
This is childish thinking at most, koreans are a proud people, a lot of them already side with kespa on this issue, and it would be more damaging to the companies if they showed a lack of conviction.
They already said they are ready to duke it out with blizzard (a foreign company)
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While dismissing my post as childish thinking, you fail to provide any factual information on your part.
And they have slim chances of winning
as have been discussed many times before. This is a grey area where we have no way to be sure other than waiting for the court's decision.
As for your other points, most are just personal wishful speculations imo. Although i do agree that the bigger the firm, the more they will prefer settling out of court, but there is a limit to how much they will give in, though i do not know what the limit is. What i do know (think?) is that IF Blizz bring this to court, then those guys will put in some real effort to make sure that they wont lose (getting sued and win isnt so much bad reputation, getting sued n lose is).
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How is Gretech being greedy for wanting approx. the same amount of money that Kespa charged when it was in the same position?
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How is Gretech greedy for wanting a return on their investment?
When you own the rights to something, it's not greedy to not just give it away for free to everyone.
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EPT
