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Active: 946 users

Best starcraft player of all time?

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verzisor
Profile Joined February 2009
Romania73 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:34:20
June 29 2009 20:17 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Poll: Who is the best Starcraft player of all time?
(Vote): Boxer
(Vote): Yellow
(Vote): Nada
(Vote): Iloveoov
(Vote): Jaedong
(Vote): Bisu
(Vote): FlaSh
(Vote): July
(Vote): Savior
(Vote): Reach
(Vote): Others (Specify)

jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
June 29 2009 20:20 GMT
#2
where is nal_ra ?! T_T
http://twitter.com/jhNz
plated.rawr
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway1676 Posts
June 29 2009 20:20 GMT
#3
Let's rename this thread to "Greatest fanboy-base on TeamLiquid of all time!" instead.
Savior broke my heart ;_; || twitch.tv/onnings
Kuja900
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3564 Posts
June 29 2009 20:21 GMT
#4
Julyzerg, close thread.
OMG you nasty gurl
barbahaba0
Profile Joined January 2009
Israel226 Posts
June 29 2009 20:23 GMT
#5
cant see how boxer wont win this
voted for jaedong
game over dude .... game over!!!!
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 29 2009 20:23 GMT
#6
This doesn't work since there's no right answer. But I'll be glad to know that Jaedong has the biggest fanbase on TL! Can Bisu fans overtake us?!
Jaedong
zazen
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil695 Posts
June 29 2009 20:25 GMT
#7
No Reach? Voted for Boxer.
"The quest for nexus has brought many men of genius to insanity... HUEHUEHUE!"
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:30:21
June 29 2009 20:29 GMT
#8
Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play.

lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
June 29 2009 20:30 GMT
#9
It is an error to confuse "best" and "greatest" and other similar words, especially without criteria. If by best you mean the highest level of StarCraft skill in game, I think Jaedong is the best StarCraft player of all time.
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
June 29 2009 20:30 GMT
#10
If the question is who at their peak would be an absolute favorite in a BoX, or who has the most impressive/dominating career?

I would say Flash/Jaedong for the former and Jaedong/Oov for the later.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 29 2009 20:30 GMT
#11
im surprised bisu isnt like 2nd or w/e. same with flash. guess boxer needs to always win.. kind of. jd #1.
Z-R0E
Profile Joined April 2009
United States147 Posts
June 29 2009 20:32 GMT
#12
I put myself in the ranks of Jaedong fanboy, but I still voted Boxer. As much as I like Jaedong, StarCraft won't be around long enough for him to ever be on the same level as Boxer.
The Z-g0d http://atZinc.org
shafiru
Profile Joined January 2009
111 Posts
June 29 2009 20:32 GMT
#13
1. Jaedong
2. Bisu
3. Flash
4. Nada
bengaliToss ftw...
verzisor
Profile Joined February 2009
Romania73 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:39:07
June 29 2009 20:34 GMT
#14
I voted July
Retsukage
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1002 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:39:05
June 29 2009 20:35 GMT
#15
This thread is horrible and you should feel bad for making it
also, why is everyone saying jaedong T_T
Just because he is playing well currently doesnt make him the best of all time
To change is to improve, to change often is to be perfect - Winston Chruchill
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
June 29 2009 20:35 GMT
#16
Kwanro
#1 Kwanro Fan
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
June 29 2009 20:36 GMT
#17
Do you mean highest absolute skill level or highest relative skill level for an extended period, or overall greatest contribution to the game, or longest period of dominance?

There are many ways of interpreting this question.
sidesprang
Profile Joined January 2009
Norway1033 Posts
June 29 2009 20:36 GMT
#18
imo for most ppl this question is to hard to answer. Since you kinda have to have followed the scene for 10 years to be able to give an answer that is justified.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
June 29 2009 20:36 GMT
#19
I'm interpreting the question as 'greatest' player (as your term best is unclear), and so voted Nada.
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
June 29 2009 20:37 GMT
#20
As this is a poll on TL, Boxer must be correct. I couldn't even consider the other options.
skating
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
June 29 2009 20:38 GMT
#21
How can You vote Jaedong / Flash / Bisu, damn, they are still newcomers.
I'd vote for : rA, Reach, Boxer, oov, July, JJu, YellOw, GooDFrienD and blah, blah tons of other oldschool progamers :D Boxer FTW obviously, no doubts here.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
June 29 2009 20:39 GMT
#22
On June 30 2009 05:36 cz wrote:
Do you mean highest absolute skill level or highest relative skill level for an extended period, or overall greatest contribution to the game, or longest period of dominance?

There are many ways of interpreting this question.


this. plus most people will vote for their favourite player
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
June 29 2009 20:41 GMT
#23
Greatest of all time, I'd say Nada. Staying that good for that long with that much change in the scene is incredible. Same with July, but Nada's run is a bit more impressive.

Mentally, I'd probably say July.

As far as peak overall skill goes, I'd probably say Jaedong.
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:42:56
June 29 2009 20:41 GMT
#24
On June 30 2009 05:29 B1nary wrote:
Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play.

lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^


Nada's careers greatest accomplishment imo is his skill level and accomplishments over a large span of time. Nobody, nobody is even close to Nada in that. He was the main league rival for Boxer/Xellos in 2002-03, and won a large number of leagues then, but in 2006-07 was still winning a league or coming in close 2nd to Savior (and beating him in at least one bo5 final), who was the bonjwa at the time. His endurance in the top is not even close to being challenged by anyone. Bisu/Jaedon would effectively have to be in the top 3 about two-three years from now to be able to claim the same distinction, but as we've seen from all other top players, their relative skill fades.

edit: July won a league after his period of dominance, true, but that's nowhere near Nada's accomplishments during his 05-07 period. He was the constant rival to Savior, the bonjwa: July was never anywhere near the rival of Jaedong/Bisu/Flash when he won his league last year.
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
June 29 2009 20:42 GMT
#25
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
June 29 2009 20:46 GMT
#26
Highest ELO peak, 3 MSLs, impeccable multi-tasking... Bisu is clearly the best in absolute terms (well okay just my opinion lol). There is of course the issue of time of dominance, furthering the game, etc... But Bisu is the best.
Peace~
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 29 2009 20:48 GMT
#27
Iloveoov.
We are vigilant.
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 29 2009 20:49 GMT
#28
Looking at some of the votes and some of the posts here, I would say that a lot of people have very short memories.
We are vigilant.
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:55:15
June 29 2009 20:54 GMT
#29
Boxer or GoRush.

Waaay to many newcomers to the poll. Like no Grrr... ect WTF-mate.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
Volshok
Profile Joined August 2008
United States349 Posts
June 29 2009 20:57 GMT
#30
Oov / Nada, Their dominance and gameplay forever changed Starcraft on a level that flash and Jaedong have yet to achieve.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123657
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:58:06
June 29 2009 20:57 GMT
#31
On June 30 2009 05:20 plated.rawr wrote:
Let's rename this thread to "Greatest fanboy-base on TeamLiquid of all time!" instead.



That sums up this thread. Way too many JD nuthuggers on this website.

And to contribute, Boxer, YellOw, Reach, Nada, July, Oov and rA should be the only ones on the list.
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
June 29 2009 20:57 GMT
#32
Voted JD for best right now. Over the long run, probably Nada. Short run dominance Oov.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
June 29 2009 20:57 GMT
#33
I love Bisu, but anyone who doesn't vote NaDa for this is just wrong.
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 20:59:52
June 29 2009 20:59 GMT
#34
On June 30 2009 05:42 Pufftrees wrote:
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.


Yeah so far JD has been amazing at playing over 80% ZvZs and then winning most of his games in the new Zerg favored map pool.


I hope someone misses my sarcasm.
Shivaz
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1783 Posts
June 29 2009 21:00 GMT
#35
lol easy, Nada
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 21:07:43
June 29 2009 21:05 GMT
#36
It's Jaedong... I mean, there's no debate if we're talking about "who is the best ever at winning games."

Just because Boxer invented micro doesn't mean he's the best ever.
Just because iloveoov invented macro doesn't mean he's the best ever.

Other people copied off of Boxer and oov and did things better than they ever did. They might be the smartest ever to play the game, but they're not the greatest.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 29 2009 21:09 GMT
#37
On June 30 2009 05:59 Mania[K]al wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 05:42 Pufftrees wrote:
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.


Yeah so far JD has been amazing at playing over 80% ZvZs and then winning most of his games in the new Zerg favored map pool.


I hope someone misses my sarcasm.

Don't get bitter if someone besides your favorite player wins, god forbid, an internet poll.
Also, "nuthugger" is a new one. XD
Jaedong
FranzF1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile1710 Posts
June 29 2009 21:11 GMT
#38
LOL mods should close this tread... is a Holy war... like saying who is better: Amd o Intel?

There are a lot of new people that doesn't really know Boxer/Nal_ra/Iloveoov/Nada/etc... and saying that if boxer (on his prime) plays vs jaedong or something like that he will still lose is cus JD picked the Game with all the knowledge thanks to older gamers like iloveoov/yellow/etc....

=P voted for boxer anyway
Member #99999^99 of the fanclub of Grape, Reality and TurN
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
June 29 2009 21:18 GMT
#39
it's nada you stupids.
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
June 29 2009 21:21 GMT
#40
On June 30 2009 06:09 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 05:59 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 05:42 Pufftrees wrote:
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.


Yeah so far JD has been amazing at playing over 80% ZvZs and then winning most of his games in the new Zerg favored map pool.


I hope someone misses my sarcasm.

Don't get bitter if someone besides your favorite player wins, god forbid, an internet poll.
Also, "nuthugger" is a new one. XD



Of course im not bitter, Im just stating if youre going to make a thread about the best SC players at least do it right. SC2 brought in tons of brand new kids that dont know what the oldschoolers were capable of and all they know is how to scream OH MY GOD EE JAE DONG!!! millions of times everywhere they see something SC related.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
June 29 2009 21:21 GMT
#41
nada of course
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 29 2009 21:23 GMT
#42
On June 30 2009 06:21 Mania[K]al wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:09 Avidkeystamper wrote:
On June 30 2009 05:59 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 05:42 Pufftrees wrote:
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.


Yeah so far JD has been amazing at playing over 80% ZvZs and then winning most of his games in the new Zerg favored map pool.


I hope someone misses my sarcasm.

Don't get bitter if someone besides your favorite player wins, god forbid, an internet poll.
Also, "nuthugger" is a new one. XD



Of course im not bitter, Im just stating if youre going to make a thread about the best SC players at least do it right. SC2 brought in tons of brand new kids that dont know what the oldschoolers were capable of and all they know is how to scream OH MY GOD EE JAE DONG!!! millions of times everywhere they see something SC related.

Then Chill? It's a poll that I doubt will influence anyone else's opinion of who is actually the best. There's nothing wrong with newer fans of SC liking the new players.
Jaedong
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
June 29 2009 21:24 GMT
#43
How is boxer geting so much votes ??? Cmon i know he is like the father of starcraft but best? not a chance maybe most famous and most entertaining.

Best right now is Jaedong and probably of all time but Nada is right there because he was best for al ong time and he is kinda bad now

A year or 2 of Jaedong owning and Nada sucking then will be Jaedong of all time and noone could even come close 2nd.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 21:26:43
June 29 2009 21:26 GMT
#44
NaDa

edit- hes been in top 30 for what 6 years? who else has this accomplishment?
despite
Profile Joined June 2009
Bulgaria105 Posts
June 29 2009 21:26 GMT
#45
I just didn't look down after the first name = ez.
ActualSteve
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States627 Posts
June 29 2009 21:27 GMT
#46
I have been following Korean SC for almost 2 years.

NEVER have I seen Jaedong fade.
NEVER have I seen Bisu fade.

For my limited scope of the scene, ^^ Those two have been the only contenders.
Fuck this theory that because JD / Bisu are good now, we vote for them.
You are now breathing manually.
Bozali
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden155 Posts
June 29 2009 21:29 GMT
#47
no REACH!?
oob
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden630 Posts
June 29 2009 21:30 GMT
#48
On June 30 2009 05:48 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Iloveoov.


QFT.

Oov was just too good.
Happiest man on earth
beLieVe
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany15 Posts
June 29 2009 21:33 GMT
#49
If its personal preference its (Z)YellOw for me ( Voted him too)

If its in general i dont think i have to repeat some of the previous posts.
Gee Gee
mastuh
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States64 Posts
June 29 2009 21:34 GMT
#50
it's nada... golden mouse + golden badge + not dropping out of kespa's top 30 for 6 years.
blueblimp
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada297 Posts
June 29 2009 21:36 GMT
#51
Depends in what sense:

Most consistent high skill? Nada, clearly.

Highest absolute skill (in their prime)? Jaedong, or maybe Bisu, since the general skill level of pros is so high now.

Highest relative skill (in their prime)? One of the bonjwas, since that's what bonjwa means.

Biggest impact on the game as a game? I'd argue iloveoov, but there are other good choices here: Boxer, Savior, and old-school players I don't know well enough. Players known for reinventing certain match-ups are decent choices too, like Bisu or Fantasy. Certainly not Jaedong, since no one knows the secret of his zvz, and I don't think he's made a big impact in other match-ups.

Biggest impact on the game as an eSport? Boxer.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 29 2009 21:39 GMT
#52
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.
Jaedong
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
June 29 2009 21:44 GMT
#53
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.
May the BeSt man win.
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
June 29 2009 21:48 GMT
#54
On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
June 29 2009 21:49 GMT
#55
NaDa - I dont even know what this fuzz is all about
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
June 29 2009 21:49 GMT
#56
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.


Them being old could very possibly be a factor in them not being capable of beating Bisu/JD in a Bo5.
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
June 29 2009 21:52 GMT
#57
NaDa or Jaedong depending on how the question is interpreted.

JD's stats are fucking amazing though - I'm pretty sure no other progamer has has 69%+ win with over 300 games played. Not to mention he holds the "best matchup of all time" title in his ZvZ, somehow beating out iloveoov's godly 27-0 TvZ and sAviOr's unholy ZvP.

Writerman what
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
June 29 2009 21:52 GMT
#58
On June 30 2009 06:36 blueblimp wrote:
Depends in what sense:

Most consistent high skill? Nada, clearly.

Highest absolute skill (in their prime)? Jaedong, or maybe Bisu, since the general skill level of pros is so high now.

Highest relative skill (in their prime)? One of the bonjwas, since that's what bonjwa means.

Biggest impact on the game as a game? I'd argue iloveoov, but there are other good choices here: Boxer, Savior, and old-school players I don't know well enough. Players known for reinventing certain match-ups are decent choices too, like Bisu or Fantasy. Certainly not Jaedong, since no one knows the secret of his zvz, and I don't think he's made a big impact in other match-ups.

Biggest impact on the game as an eSport? Boxer.
good post.
Most achieved to date is Nada.
Best in absolute skill Jaedong/Bisu/Flash (can be one on one day and one on another)
Highest relative skill arguably iloveoov, although this is a tough call.
etc
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
June 29 2009 21:52 GMT
#59
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Lucktar
Profile Joined July 2008
United States526 Posts
June 29 2009 21:54 GMT
#60
Nada = best ever. He was kicking ass when Jaedong and Flash were still in elementary school.
NaDa, much, ZerO fighting!
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 29 2009 21:55 GMT
#61
On June 30 2009 06:48 Mania[K]al wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.

I remember you, you're the guy that said why do jaedong fanbois make 30 thread whenever he loses, in response to the strategical question about the viability of movie's dragoon timing build. Please stop trolling and lay off the hate.
Jaedong
StarN
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2587 Posts
June 29 2009 21:55 GMT
#62
Where's PokJu?!
Retired BW Noob
danieldrsa
Profile Joined June 2008
Brazil522 Posts
June 29 2009 21:55 GMT
#63
On June 30 2009 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This doesn't work since there's no right answer. But I'll be glad to know that Jaedong has the biggest fanbase on TL! Can Bisu fans overtake us?!


We are realist and vote on Boxer
-*-
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
June 29 2009 21:55 GMT
#64
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.


Uh..? Pick a better timeframe, lol.
2 years ago JD won the OSL and Bisu got a gold MSL title over Stork and a silver behind Mind. I'm pretty sure they wouldve beat Boxer, Nada, or Ra.
Writerman what
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
June 29 2009 21:59 GMT
#65
On June 30 2009 06:55 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:48 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.

I remember you, you're the guy that said why do jaedong fanbois make 30 thread whenever he loses, in response to the strategical question about the viability of movie's dragoon timing build. Please stop trolling and lay off the hate.



And youre that guy that gets very upset when JD loses and tries to blame it on something irrational other than JD being outplayed, because we all know thats not possible.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 22:02:28
June 29 2009 22:00 GMT
#66
On June 30 2009 06:55 danieldrsa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This doesn't work since there's no right answer. But I'll be glad to know that Jaedong has the biggest fanbase on TL! Can Bisu fans overtake us?!


We are realist and vote on Boxer

Boxer votes + Bisu votes -impartial boxer votes=?! Hmm, it's close.

On June 30 2009 06:59 Mania[K]al wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:55 Avidkeystamper wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:48 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.

I remember you, you're the guy that said why do jaedong fanbois make 30 thread whenever he loses, in response to the strategical question about the viability of movie's dragoon timing build. Please stop trolling and lay off the hate.



And youre that guy that gets very upset when JD loses and tries to blame it on something irrational other than JD being outplayed, because we all know thats not possible.

Heres the evidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95768
On June 19 2009 13:27 Mania[K]al wrote:
I like how when JD loses there has to be a 3 page thread to discuss it.

JD fanbois make me sick.

On June 20 2009 11:35 Mania[K]al wrote:
JEADONG LOST?

OH MY GOD SOMEONE START A THREAD, QUICK!

Jaedong
barth
Profile Joined March 2008
Ireland1272 Posts
June 29 2009 22:13 GMT
#67
I know its most likely not correct but I couldnt help myself voting Jaedong

+ Show Spoiler +
JAEDONG FIGHTING :O
"Somebody you are talking to disappears mid sentence, and the universe shoots you because you talked to someone that wasn`t there." - MasterOfChaos
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
June 29 2009 22:14 GMT
#68
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.


If Person A is better now than Person B ever was, how can Person B be the best ever?
May the BeSt man win.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
June 29 2009 22:20 GMT
#69
Best is a very subjective word. Most successful Nada. Most awesome Boxer. Best? perhaps Jaedong, but I voted Nada.
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
June 29 2009 22:20 GMT
#70
Although he is not the best, every poll with the option of Boxer is autovoted!
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
June 29 2009 22:22 GMT
#71
Nada is the best. Boxer is the most popular/memorable/had the biggest effect on e-sports/idol/legend/micro gosu guy.
n
Profile Joined May 2009
United States48 Posts
June 29 2009 22:23 GMT
#72
On June 30 2009 06:18 LosingID8 wrote:
it's nada you stupids.


http://i40.tinypic.com/u36s5.png
OmniKnight
Profile Joined August 2008
United States73 Posts
June 29 2009 22:24 GMT
#73
umm gaming has changed overtime and ppl like nada and boxer get shit on by jaedong and flash.. so i vote jaedong idk why ppl voting boxer
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
June 29 2009 22:25 GMT
#74
On June 30 2009 07:14 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.


If Person A is better now than Person B ever was, how can Person B be the best ever?


Well you have to consider the environments and stuff. ie: The best sprinter ever from the 1800s would be slow in comparison to any half-way decent sprinter nowadays. Except instead of changes in nutrition (steroids lol) and work outs, the changes are in the advancement and perfection of strategies and the fact that any player starting today have a much more obvious way as to the correct way to play.

Omg this argument reminds me of the most recent Rocky movie. Rocky Balboa where they do the projections of who would win a boxing match between Rocky in his prime and the new guy who is owning the scene.
Mongery
Profile Joined May 2009
892 Posts
June 29 2009 22:26 GMT
#75
Pretty easy question actually: boxer for sure, hes been peoples idol for ages "not mine" but hes a great player that's for sure.
http://www.twitch.tv/mongery_tv https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/27699-mongery-
Dice
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)926 Posts
June 29 2009 22:27 GMT
#76
It's Jaedong, the best starcraft player ever known. He is the favorite against anyone in a BoX.
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6172 Posts
June 29 2009 22:31 GMT
#77
Nada
n_n
FranzF1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile1710 Posts
June 29 2009 22:35 GMT
#78
LOL the most annoying thing for me is that people here dont understand that TIMEFRAMES are very important.. YOU CANT COMPARE BOXER TO JAEDONG... its simply YOU CANT, is comparing people that played and learning 2 diferent games... YOU SIMPLY DONT KNOW how the game was before Boxer (not just him... all the older gamers like him, yellow, nal_ra,etc...). Those People learn a game when builds orden doesn't even exist... it was all instinct.

Honestly I think that if you go back in time and bring the little Boxer (14 yrs old) and you show him and teach him starcraft the same way that Jaedong, Flash and Bisu learned HE WILL BE A FUCKING BEAST TEARING APART ALL THE SKILLES NOOBS.

=P

sry for my english and the mayus but i just cant be chill when people compare the skills of olders players vs new players its just stupid.
Member #99999^99 of the fanclub of Grape, Reality and TurN
FieryBalrog
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1381 Posts
June 29 2009 22:40 GMT
#79
Boxer, because the game wouldn't be the same without him. Thats what greatest means. I'm sure Bjorn Borg would get owned by half the young players today, still the greatest.
I will eat you alive
Tekin
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2711 Posts
June 29 2009 22:41 GMT
#80
No nal_ra?
voted for nada
Cheers! //¯◡◡¯\\ 문채원 | 한지우 -___-
Dice
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)926 Posts
June 29 2009 22:42 GMT
#81
Boxer: "Jaedong is the best player in the world" - October 2008
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
June 29 2009 22:45 GMT
#82
On June 30 2009 07:35 FranzF1 wrote:
LOL the most annoying thing for me is that people here dont understand that TIMEFRAMES are very important.. YOU CANT COMPARE BOXER TO JAEDONG... its simply YOU CANT, is comparing people that played and learning 2 diferent games... YOU SIMPLY DONT KNOW how the game was before Boxer (not just him... all the older gamers like him, yellow, nal_ra,etc...). Those People learn a game when builds orden doesn't even exist... it was all instinct.

Honestly I think that if you go back in time and bring the little Boxer (14 yrs old) and you show him and teach him starcraft the same way that Jaedong, Flash and Bisu learned HE WILL BE A FUCKING BEAST TEARING APART ALL THE SKILLES NOOBS.

=P

sry for my english and the mayus but i just cant be chill when people compare the skills of olders players vs new players its just stupid.


Minus the middle paragraph, you're absolutely right.
These eras can't be compared because the past is what we interpret it as.
Pointless thread is pointless.
darkness overpowering
Mr.Pyro
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Denmark959 Posts
June 29 2009 22:45 GMT
#83
How did nal_ra not make this list?
F'in stork is there but not nal_ra?!
P⊧[1]<a>[2]<a>[3]<a>tt | P ≝ 1.a.2.a.3.a.P
DragoonPK
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
3259 Posts
June 29 2009 22:46 GMT
#84
EE JAE DONG !
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
June 29 2009 22:50 GMT
#85
On June 30 2009 07:00 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:55 danieldrsa wrote:
On June 30 2009 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This doesn't work since there's no right answer. But I'll be glad to know that Jaedong has the biggest fanbase on TL! Can Bisu fans overtake us?!


We are realist and vote on Boxer

Boxer votes + Bisu votes -impartial boxer votes=?! Hmm, it's close.

Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:59 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:55 Avidkeystamper wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:48 Mania[K]al wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.

I remember you, you're the guy that said why do jaedong fanbois make 30 thread whenever he loses, in response to the strategical question about the viability of movie's dragoon timing build. Please stop trolling and lay off the hate.



And youre that guy that gets very upset when JD loses and tries to blame it on something irrational other than JD being outplayed, because we all know thats not possible.

Heres the evidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95768
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2009 13:27 Mania[K]al wrote:
I like how when JD loses there has to be a 3 page thread to discuss it.

JD fanbois make me sick.

Show nested quote +
On June 20 2009 11:35 Mania[K]al wrote:
JEADONG LOST?

OH MY GOD SOMEONE START A THREAD, QUICK!




Nancy Drew is on the case!
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 22:54:34
June 29 2009 22:51 GMT
#86
Why the hell is (Z)Jaedong ranked so high. The answer is so fricking fickle.


In terms of who's done the most for the game and is generally the most awesome, (T)BoxeR

In terms of who has been consistently good and won the most stuff, (T)NaDa.

In terms of who is the best right now, (Z)Jaedong.


The answer should be (T)NaDa, (Z)Jaedong still needs to win 2 more OSLs before he can be considered in the same league.
Kuja900
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3564 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 22:53:23
June 29 2009 22:52 GMT
#87
On June 30 2009 07:42 Dice84 wrote:
Boxer: "Jaedong is the best player in the world" - October 2008


This thread is about all time though.

edit: not that I agree with the thread, this is a silly fan boy circle jerk topic lol.
OMG you nasty gurl
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
June 29 2009 22:56 GMT
#88
People have already pointed out that the question lends itself to ambiguity, but taking the strict interpretation of "highest absolute skill level" I vote for Jaedong, although cases could be made for Flash and Bisu.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
June 29 2009 22:57 GMT
#89
How did Jaedong get a million more votes than July? >.>

1. NaDa
2. Boxer
3. July
4. Savior / Flash / Jaedong / Bisu
:)
AltaiR_
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Korea (South)922 Posts
June 29 2009 22:57 GMT
#90
nonsense, reach turns into stork, thats like keanu reeves becoming arnold
Translator
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 23:04:45
June 29 2009 23:03 GMT
#91
I thought the answer would be an obvious iloveoov.

If we're talking about specific timeframes, then iloveoov was clearly the best player of all time.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
June 29 2009 23:13 GMT
#92
nada only because his shoulders and back must be aching from so many badges.

then jaedong follows.

although if this was "greatest"......
Forever Young
aznanimedude
Profile Joined April 2009
United States199 Posts
June 29 2009 23:17 GMT
#93
NaDa hands down
don't forget he had the highest KeSPA ranking before they had to rescale it
6 years of top 30, he lived through the bonjwas and still came out fighting and doing well

genius terran is genius
HOI POLLOI
Mongery
Profile Joined May 2009
892 Posts
June 29 2009 23:17 GMT
#94
GARIMTO should be in it too... imo
http://www.twitch.tv/mongery_tv https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/27699-mongery-
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
June 29 2009 23:22 GMT
#95
Boxer: #1 cuz if you look Starcraft in the dictionary, BoXeR should define it. He was bonjwa, he invented a lot of shit, still wins games today and he was there since the beginning. I just cant think of sc without BoXeR

NaDa: #2 Cuz he is the most self accomplished player of all time. He was #1 in KEspA for like 18 months in a row when he was dominating. To this date he remains the most consistent player, and still an opponent to fear.

Bisu: #3! Bisu is a freaking hero. Peaking with the highest ELO of 2352 according to TLPD. Bisu broke the trend of Protoss fearing Zergs so much and I think it brought sc to the perfect balance. First protoss to ever make it to #1 in KeSPa. I would say Bisu is the best player sc has ever seen (along side with JaeDong and Flash).

JaeDong: #4... What can I say? Lol, this dude is just amazing in every single and possible way. But, I would keep him in #4 just because Bisu did something more spectacular in his career... In my opinion...

Flash: #5, well Flash is possibly as good as they come. Those last three players are like the top of the top for the races. I cant imagine anyone surpassing their skill level. Theyre just too Miraculously good. Maybe someday, someone will dethrone JaeDong, Bisu and Flash. But event hen I think they will remain immortalized. Perfect play all the way.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
pubbanana
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3063 Posts
June 29 2009 23:28 GMT
#96
Boxer.
Wachet, stehet im Glauben, seid männlich und seid stark.
CongoJack
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada417 Posts
June 29 2009 23:34 GMT
#97
Boxer is and will always be #1.
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 23:38:33
June 29 2009 23:37 GMT
#98
On June 30 2009 08:22 Leath wrote:
Boxer: #1 cuz if you look Starcraft in the dictionary, BoXeR should define it. He was bonjwa, he invented a lot of shit, still wins games today and he was there since the beginning. I just cant think of sc without BoXeR

NaDa: #2 Cuz he is the most self accomplished player of all time. He was #1 in KEspA for like 18 months in a row when he was dominating. To this date he remains the most consistent player, and still an opponent to fear.

Bisu: #3! Bisu is a freaking hero. Peaking with the highest ELO of 2352 according to TLPD. Bisu broke the trend of Protoss fearing Zergs so much and I think it brought sc to the perfect balance. First protoss to ever make it to #1 in KeSPa. I would say Bisu is the best player sc has ever seen (along side with JaeDong and Flash).

JaeDong: #4... What can I say? Lol, this dude is just amazing in every single and possible way. But, I would keep him in #4 just because Bisu did something more spectacular in his career... In my opinion...

Flash: #5, well Flash is possibly as good as they come. Those last three players are like the top of the top for the races. I cant imagine anyone surpassing their skill level. Theyre just too Miraculously good. Maybe someday, someone will dethrone JaeDong, Bisu and Flash. But event hen I think they will remain immortalized. Perfect play all the way.



Good list and i wanted to comment on the end of your post.

Ignoring the fact that Jd/Bisu/Flash will be the last of the best players in Sc1 because Sc2 is right around the corner, i think given the time to mature and come into it, Movie and Baby would be excellent replacements for Bisu/Flash.

As for Z, I dont want to watch anyone play that race unless its Storm Zerg, Mutalisk play got old when July used it.
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
June 29 2009 23:38 GMT
#99
On June 30 2009 05:57 samachking wrote:
Voted JD for best right now.


Re-read the thread title : P
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-29 23:48:29
June 29 2009 23:41 GMT
#100
On June 30 2009 06:27 ActualSteve wrote:
I have been following Korean SC for almost 2 years.

NEVER have I seen (Z)Jaedong fade.
NEVER have I seen (P)Bisu fade.



And this tops (T)NaDa's 7 years of not fading how?
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
Shuray
Profile Joined July 2008
Brazil642 Posts
June 29 2009 23:42 GMT
#101
July \o/
Cobalt
Profile Joined April 2008
United States441 Posts
June 29 2009 23:53 GMT
#102
The question of "Who is the best player of all time" is pretty simple to answer if you take the question literally. However, it requires one assumption: the more time that passes, the better the players are. I don't believe that anyone would have a real problem with this assumption, considering how many times I've heard people talking about how Starcraft is being played at the highest level ever.

With that out of the way, the question becomes much simpler. Instead of "Who is the best player of all time," the question is "Who is the best player right now." If we have established that players are better now than in the past, then the best player now is also the best player of all time.

That's how the question can be answered if it is taken literally.

However, as shown in this thread, people are interpreting the question differently. Some are answering the question "What player has had the most impact on the game," "What player has remained competitive better than any other," etc. Because of this, it's easy to see that the question itself is flawed.
jeddus
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States832 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:00:55
June 29 2009 23:59 GMT
#103
NaDa would be my pick for all-time best.

Most popular would be Boxer.

The most skilled would probably be Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash in a three way tie.

Creative? Nal_Ra and Boxer.
sex appeal
Kim_Hyun_Han
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
706 Posts
June 30 2009 00:02 GMT
#104
obviously tornado terran
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
June 30 2009 00:06 GMT
#105
Where is the "When Yellow wins the next OSL" Option. Faux poll.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
Clasic
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
June 30 2009 00:09 GMT
#106
On June 30 2009 05:20 plated.rawr wrote:
Let's rename this thread to "Greatest fanboy-base on TeamLiquid of all time!" instead.

This

On June 30 2009 05:20 jhNz wrote:
where is nal_ra ?! T_T

and this.
No no no no its not mine!
graemej
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada42 Posts
June 30 2009 00:10 GMT
#107
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.


i'd say yes, boxer /nada/ ra would lose even in their prime to jd/bisu in their prime
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
June 30 2009 00:17 GMT
#108
We had around 100 of these topics. It's always the same idiotic outcome.

1) The question is problematic and leaves to many options.

F A C T S :

( 1 ) The best gamer of all times : NaDa [ Not in terms of pure skill or 'how good he is' but how much he achieved. Important note : Best -/- most skillfull ~~> best meaning to be amazing over a very very long time. Most skillfull ~~> To play the most perfect starcraft possible ]

( 2 ) The most skillfull gamer(s) of all times : Flash, Bisu, Jeadong [ I dont know which of those 3 i would choose and its very close. They are all three the most skillfull players the game has seen so far but none of them is the 'best gamer of all times' ]

( 3 ) The greatest gamer(s) of all times : Boxer,NaDa, Iloveoov [ great leaves even more options than best, because it can mean so many different things. Either it means being the most successful ( = nada ) or the most dominant ( arguably = oov ) or being the most important ( probably = boxer ) ]

( 4 ) The most liked of all times : Boxer [ I think thats almost a fact if u look at polls on tl.net with him & the fact he has and especially had the biggest fan base out there ]



@ creator of the topic : U can not compare bisu, jd , flash and Nada or Boxer

@ the voters of the topic: U are just stupid to vote for a newcomer no matter how much you like him


the question is NOT( !!!! ) :

WHO IS YOUR FAVOURITE GAMER ? WHO IS THE MOST SKILLFULL GAMER RIGHT NOW OR FOR THE LAST FEW MONTHS ? WHO IS THE GAMER WHO DID HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON SC/ BW ?

it annoys me to hell how people can be so.. yes.. stupid..

I would never vote for NaDa if the poll question would be ' who is the best player ever in terms of pure skill and in terms of playing the game as perfect as it gets ' . Because i KNOW he is not. Same with Boxer & every other oldschool gamer.

I begin to hate everyone here who auto votes boxer.

Maybe we should start a poll with the question ' who do u want to die soon ' with boxer as a possible choice, too. Many stupid individuals would probably autovote for boxer as well.

DO YOU EVEN READ WHAT THE POLL IS ASKING FOR ?

hatred outlives the hateful
Clasic
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
June 30 2009 00:18 GMT
#109
On June 30 2009 09:10 graemej wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.


i'd say yes, boxer /nada/ ra would lose even in their prime to jd/bisu in their prime


You didn't answer his question correctly rofl
No no no no its not mine!
CTStalker
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Canada9720 Posts
June 30 2009 00:19 GMT
#110
seriously? 119 people said jaedon? wow
By the way, my name is Funk. I am not of your world
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:21:44
June 30 2009 00:19 GMT
#111
On June 30 2009 07:51 Athos wrote:
Why the hell is (Z)Jaedong ranked so high. The answer is so fricking fickle.


In terms of who's done the most for the game and is generally the most awesome, (T)BoxeR

In terms of who has been consistently good and won the most stuff, (T)NaDa.

In terms of who is the best right now, (Z)Jaedong.


The answer should be (T)NaDa, (Z)Jaedong still needs to win 2 more OSLs before he can be considered in the same league.


I dunno it depends what your criteria are.

If we're talking about the best player of all time... as in most skilled person ever then prime Flash/Jaedong/Bisu shits all over prime anyone else. Period.

Boxer in bonjwa mode would get stomped by all three of them in their respective god modes and the same goes for any other old schooler.

If we're talking about accomplishments then well Nada wins that one hands down... or if we're talking influence then people like Boxer obviously win that.

The problem with these threads is that they lack any actual definition on what BEST is.

If we're talking technical skill then Bisu/Jaedong/Flash are untouchable... Jaedong plays such a high level zerg that most people can't even begin to understand how some of his builds work. The neo-sauron build looks nearly imbalanced in Jaedong's hands...
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
FranzF1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile1710 Posts
June 30 2009 00:22 GMT
#112
This poll is dumb... is like: What movie has better especial effects?
A)starwars 1
B)transformer 2

Just 2 things that cant be compared.

PD: Jaedong is the best right now and probably will be the best of this time (post SaviOr era) =P
Member #99999^99 of the fanclub of Grape, Reality and TurN
Borgir
Profile Joined June 2009
United States27 Posts
June 30 2009 00:25 GMT
#113
--- Nuked ---
InfeSteD
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States4658 Posts
June 30 2009 00:33 GMT
#114
ilove iloveoov!
w/e
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
June 30 2009 00:34 GMT
#115
NaDa easy.

seriously, boxer did revolutionize the game..
but who was in the KePSA top 30 for almost his entire career?
that's right, Lee YoonYeol.

Jaedong can also be it but he hasn't stayed for long enough IMO, the qualifier "all time" needs nada.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
June 30 2009 00:35 GMT
#116
On June 30 2009 09:25 Borgir wrote:
Combat-EX yo

"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:59:56
June 30 2009 00:38 GMT
#117
Just an idea:

I don't know if you can actually say that the pro-scene with every single passing second is inherently better than it was previously with 0% exceptions.

It can be argued that periods of time in the past (short or long, recent or otherwise) existed where the general 'skill' level and competitiveness were higher than they are on this particular day/week/month (whatever miniscule measurement of time that falls under the category 'now' ) in 2009.

There is a reason why people like (T)Flash have experienced burn-out and no longer play at their 'peak' or 'best' skill/excellence/whatever level. (P)Bisu has said in interviews (if I'm not mistaken) that he cannot practice nearly as much as he used to. The same will happen to Jaedong and whoever else people nominate as being dominant 'now', in 2009, etc.

The fact that these top players can't maintain their highest degree of endurance, practicing and mental sharpness makes it even harder to say that the level of competition is at its absolute best at this moment with no exceptions whatsoever.

Another issue with the 'best now' mentality is it literally means that no one is really ever the best of 'all time.' There is a reason these two phrases mean different things. Remember that this is assuming not only that everyone's criteria for 'best' is the same, but that the aforementioned criteria is contantly being met and raised over time in the pro-scene (we all understand that the former, at the very least, is not true.)

If someone keeps making a 'better' hamburger than the previous one, then even debating which hamburger is 'best' ever is completely pointless since the conclusion itself is temproray and impractical.

For these reasons, I feel that the concept of 'relative skill' is far more valid than the notion of 'best now = best ever'. )

Thanks for reading.

Edit: The reason why people are saying you cannot compare (T)BoxeR in his prime to (Z)Jaedong in his prime is totally valid. Relativity. They both had different resources, knowledge and ways to apply their skills to the game at the given times that they were at their peaks.

To actually make it a level playing field, try and imagine (T)BoxeR and (Z)Jaedong being the same age, and having all the same tools to understand and advance their levels of play with (this would assume that someone other than (T)BoxeR came along to make all of the things that (T)BoxeR actually accomplished possible.) Then think about who would have the edge if they played each other BoX. IMO, (T)BoxeR's prospects start to look much better than (Z)Jaedong's at that point.

Might make a post later on why (T)BoxeR is best of all time under multiple sets of criteria IMO.
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
Gryffindor_us
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States5606 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:45:18
June 30 2009 00:44 GMT
#118
On June 30 2009 08:59 jeddus wrote:
NaDa would be my pick for all-time best.

Most popular would be Boxer.


Important distinction there.

If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior.

NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close.

Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks.

When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion.
Remember 11-12-04. 이윤열 ~. |||| ZerO, IriS, JangBi, Stork, BackHo! Mah Jae Yoon is no longer a feared entity.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:58:50
June 30 2009 00:48 GMT
#119
This thread is kinda pointless.
Jaedong
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 00:51:15
June 30 2009 00:49 GMT
#120
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
June 30 2009 00:57 GMT
#121
I'm sure we have had a lot of polls on this one already..~_~
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Weryeery
Profile Joined June 2008
288 Posts
June 30 2009 01:01 GMT
#122
JD.
He is the best player in the period where the skill level is the highest
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
June 30 2009 01:10 GMT
#123
On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 08:59 jeddus wrote:
NaDa would be my pick for all-time best.

Most popular would be Boxer.


Important distinction there.

If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior.

NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close.

Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks.

When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion.


Yea but you're talking about medals and not pure skill here.

That's why this poll fails.

If we're talking about just skill even Bonjwa Nada would have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with Jaedong. He'd probably get eaten alive really seeing as he lost constantly against Savior and Jaedong's mechanical skills far and away surpass that of Savior.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 01:13:48
June 30 2009 01:11 GMT
#124
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.

Yes, jaedong was fully capable of beating all those players in a BO5 2 years ago, none of them except nada were really very good then. Maybe bisu as well for what i know. Does it matter?

No.

The problem with best of all time, is that whoever is currently best is very likely the best of all time, as the level of play is continually improving. Then it's up to each and everyone what they mean with best.
This thread has been made a hundred times over, It's always the same.

Most accomplished. Nada
Most dominating. Oov
Autovote, influential. Boxer
Best. Whoever is currently dominating, Jaedong or Bisu at the moment.

On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 08:59 jeddus wrote:
NaDa would be my pick for all-time best.

Most popular would be Boxer.


Important distinction there.

If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior.

NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close.

Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks.

When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion.


For you best means most accomplished, that's not what it means for everyone.

On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote:
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.


MSL is by koreans considered the least important starleague, so that argument makes no sense whatsoever.
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
June 30 2009 01:13 GMT
#125
On June 30 2009 05:57 GGQ wrote:
I love Bisu, but anyone who doesn't vote NaDa for this is just wrong.

I have to agree with this.
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 01:18:33
June 30 2009 01:14 GMT
#126
this ones easy

Nada Nada Nada

but i accidently voted Bisu LOL
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
Sosha
Profile Joined August 2004
United States749 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 01:18:45
June 30 2009 01:16 GMT
#127
I think it should be in terms of best players of each race.
in which case it's pretty self-explantatory.

Protoss
(P)Bisu[Shield] - This is obvious, what w/ his ELO rating, his vast accomplishments and the fact that he's spear-headed the 6 Dragons, being the most successful of them.

Terran
(T)BoxeR - This is more earned than anything. He's definately one of the most accomplished and popular players to ever grace BW - in fact, he's mainly responsible for it's popularity and pro-gaming becoming what it is. The man's an icon. Period. Not to mention he's been bonjwa material.. winning many starleagues and tournaments for years..

Zerg
This one is totally a toss up.
(Z)sAviOr / (Z)Jaedong - I, personally, would prolly side w/ (Z)Jaedong on this subject. I'll give Savior credit, I remmeber his long run as Maestro of Destruction - owning up the whole BW scene, revolutionizing Zerg as everyone knows them - adding a new level of multitasking and unit mixture, using every single little unit to it's fullest.

However, results can't lie, and Savior has seemingly fallen off from his throne. Jaedong, on the other hand, has results totally on his side. He's taken what Saviors brought about, and totally capitilized on it and w/ todays new mechanics and obviously a strong sense of determination and dedication - has totally blown away every other Zerg in the field. Take it from me, I hate Zerg but i've seen Jaedong play.. his control, his game sense.. needless to say.. its simply amazing

Most recent display of Jaedongs dominance would be
Jaedong v Violet @ Proleague, Heartbreak ridge.
Total perfect control, gaining advantage w/ small group of lings, flawless control w/ mutas and finishing w/ an insane amount of hydras (considering how set-back violet was by the mutas)

My fav. player of all time though.
Always and forever.
Hero Protoss
(P)[Oops]Reach
I totally remember Sky OGN finals Reach v Boxer in which reach 3-1'd.. instant celebrity.

gL
Tranquility through fluid Motion. GlowBabyGlow.
Try
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1293 Posts
June 30 2009 01:19 GMT
#128
Obviously Boxer, he was dominant for a longer period of time than anyone else, and mattered more to the foundation and continuation of esports. No-one on the list even comes close to what Boxer has done for the professional starcraft scene or the length of time for which he was dominant. From 2001 all the way until alittle past the time he joined ACE, Boxer was a beast. Six years he was near the top. You can say that for no one else.
MutaDoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1163 Posts
June 30 2009 01:34 GMT
#129
As a huge LJD fan, this poll makes me happy - However, I think he may become the best one day. Voted iloveoov. The guy was simply incredible.
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
June 30 2009 01:38 GMT
#130
Boxer is the most innovative and best of his time.
so are almost all the people on the list.
however Boxer was the first so Boxer it is!
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
OnceKing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States939 Posts
June 30 2009 01:40 GMT
#131
NaDa would claim the title of best while BoxeR could probably lay claim to the title of "Most Revolutionary".
"Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got."
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
June 30 2009 01:40 GMT
#132
I voted Other.

+ Show Spoiler +
GiYoM, forever.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
LucasWoJ
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States936 Posts
June 30 2009 01:42 GMT
#133
If this poll had read 'greatest' as opposed to 'best,' I would have voted for Nada. As it stands, however, the best starcraft player, even with fanboy bias aside, is Jaedong. His 69.1% winning percentage speaks for itself, and his ability to effortlessly defy map imbalance is reminiscent of Savior. (versus Flash on Rush Hour, for example).

(Back to being fanboyish) In addition to reversing map imbalances, Jaedong seems to defy logical build order losses. For example, there's no way a zerg going 12 hatch against a proxy 9/9 gate should win especially if he sends his first six zerglings away. Jaedong's game against Lucifer sometime last year on Colosseum left me wondering whether anyone else could have managed that, and whether anyone, even in the future, could display such brilliance.


Jaedong is receiving such a large percentage of the vote because the vote almost implies his name as the "correct" answer, if you will. He's number #1 in KESPA and if you assume, and you must, that the level of the average progamer has increased as a function of how long the game's been around, then you cannot vote against him (or Bisu) unless you adopt a different definition of what the poll is asking.
"Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are it could have been." - Kurt Vonnegut
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66160 Posts
June 30 2009 01:53 GMT
#134
I'm going to think of this as 'best performing player of all time'

And I chose Jaedong
POGGERS
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
June 30 2009 01:58 GMT
#135
wow, JD is surprisingly close to the boxer autovote threshold O.o
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 02:09:45
June 30 2009 02:00 GMT
#136
Important Distinction:
The Best Player of all time is (Z)Jaedong. This is because he is the best player around right now, and the game is more complex and faster and stronger than it was at any point before. Jaedong is the best player around right now by almost every metric. I really don't think you can argue this.

The Greatest Player of all time is more difficult to decide. I'd consider the following:
The 2300 Club; Top 5 Peak ELO's
(P)Bisu SKT 2352
(Z)Jaedong OZ 2343
(T)iloveoov SKT 2329
(T)Flash KT 2322
(Z)sAviOr CJ 2301

- and other notables;
(T)NaDa FOX 2285 (7th)
(T)BoxeR SKT 2224 (Way back)


That provides a pretty definitive list. In my mind, (T)Flash is the least deserving of these seven, as he hasn't been as dominant for as long as the other players on this list. I also think (P)Bisu falls short; Bisu is edged by JD in the Post-sAviOr era of starcraft.

The final five are difficult to call; here's my reasoning...
5. From the early days of starcraft, (T)BoxeR is the founding-father, the emperor of starcraft, the most popular player ever, but he is not the best. He was a unique talent who exploited and developed much of what starcraft is today, but I can't regard a player from the "dead-ball" era of starcraft (baseball analogy) as the greatest starcraft player ever.

4. The protogé of BoxeR, (T)iloveoov had a period of dominance roughly defined as 2004-2005, and has continued to be an innovator on the sidelines of SKT to the present. Three time MSL winner, two time OSL winner. I can't say anything negative about oov, except that he was never quite as dominant as-

3. (Z)sAviOr is the player that starcraft history ought to be grouped around. I was thinking of dropping him at #1 for solely this reason. sAviOr's stretch of dominance; (2006 pretty much) was so convincing that the very first edition of the power rankings justified his top placement with; "Don't even try to argue this one". Even for a while after the seminal moment in his career, (and starcraft's existance) his 0-3 loss to Bisu in the MSL finals, he was still considered the player to beat. There is a pre-sAviOr era to starcraft, where the game was often defined by micro-tricks, macro was a rare-gift, possessed by the few, and where the game grew as players developed techniques and tactics. Then there is a post-sAviOr era where micro has become standardized, and where macro-bots proliferate, and where the game has grown in depth and strategy. The only thing holding MJY back is that his reign of terror was short, he didn't control that game quite long enough for my purposes.

2. This is where (Z)Jaedong falls. In a time where he may share the spotlight with Bisu, Flash, fantasy, EffOrt, or any host of other players, it's worth nothing that JD holds an unbelievable 69.10% winning percentage; an absolutely insane number for a player with nearly 350 games played. This is the highest all time. (Pretty sure.) His ZvZ dominance has never been equaled. If you ask this question again in a year; I anticipated Jaedong being in the top position, but right now, that belongs to...

1. (T)NaDa. If you made it this far, well done. The more I look at it, the more I felt NaDa deserved the top spot. He won his first tournament in 2002. The last tournament he won was in 2007. As late as this April, NaDa was 10th on the TL power rankings. He maintained his spot in the top 30 of the (admittedly slow-changing) KeSPA rankings for 87 months. No one is even close to this. Three time winner of the OSL, three time winner of the MSL. He holds the all-time record for wins, losses, and games played. He was the first player to really achieve anywhere near modern levels of macro. His vultures became a legend. NaDa became a legend. There's just too much to point to NaDA as being the greatest starcraft player of all time.

ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
June 30 2009 02:16 GMT
#137
On June 30 2009 05:29 B1nary wrote:
Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play.

lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^



Are you kidding me? If Flash is an option then Stork is definitely one.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Inzek
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Chile802 Posts
June 30 2009 02:20 GMT
#138
boxer... he just set the fundamentals on wish this game is played...
Stork FAN!!!
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
June 30 2009 02:22 GMT
#139
I haven't read through this whole thread (which would be a waste of time imo), but I'll sum up my opinion here.

If you define best Starcraft player of all time by the player's success, Nada, Oov, Boxer, Julyzerg, Savior, Bisu would top the list. Nada/Oov/Savior/Bisu all have 3 MSLs, and Nada/July both have 3 OSLs. Nada/Oov/Savior were all bonjwas and were considered to be almost invincible during their peaks.

If you define best Starcraft player of all time by the player's skill, Jaedong/Bisu of 2009 would easily be the top 2 choices. Their mechanical skill is unsurpassed by anybody before. If you take Jaedong right now, send him back in a time machine to 2005, he would easily rape Nada/Oov. His micro, mechanics, and timing are just too good. The strategy employed by modern players is far superior to the strategies used by players from more than 3 years ago.
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
June 30 2009 02:27 GMT
#140
On June 30 2009 10:58 skronch wrote:
wow, JD is surprisingly close to the boxer autovote threshold O.o


I'm surprised too. Boxer always wins these kind of polls
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
June 30 2009 02:31 GMT
#141
I think, that it is stupid trying to compare the old school players to Bisu/Jaedong/Flash.

Back in the day of the old school players, StarCraft was a completely different game.(You don't see 3x bunker rush, 2gate openings, early lurker/ling)

Nowadays, starcraft is so advanced that NO MATTER WHAT STRATEGY YOU USE, the pure mechanics of the players Bisu/Jaedong/Flash will be too overwhelming.

Since starcraft back in the old school players day, and starcraft nowdays is so different, there cannot be a real decision.
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
Gryffindor_us
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States5606 Posts
June 30 2009 02:33 GMT
#142
On June 30 2009 10:11 lingallin wrote:

For you best means most accomplished, that's not what it means for everyone.



That's fine but the problem is that other than statistics or accomplishments then how do you quantify the greatness of a player. Because if you're arguing solely on style/influence then you're going to tread into the territory of nearly pure opinion. I do agree though that these topics are futile.

On June 30 2009 10:10 Jayme wrote:

Yea but you're talking about medals and not pure skill here.

That's why this poll fails.

If we're talking about just skill even Bonjwa Nada would have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with Jaedong. He'd probably get eaten alive really seeing as he lost constantly against Savior and Jaedong's mechanical skills far and away surpass that of Savior.


The problem is that trying to compare eras is impossible (especially with the ridiculous increase in the prominence of teamleague). Hell, I'm sure I've tried to justify it in the past but it's not possible. If we were to take the people in this poll and have them all start at the beginning at the same age then we might get a chance to see that played out but that's impossible. Also, as KP_Collector pointed out if we use the criteria that seems to be driving Jaedong's success in this poll then we're going to have a new best player every once in a while and that seems very shallow. What if Effort replaces Jaedong and starts winning everything left and right? Does Jaedong still hold up? It starts to get really tricky when you have to incorporate time into the evaluation. What is greater: wholly dominating for a short period of time or having bursts of dominance over a 7 year period? Oh well.

The primary reason I posted was to remind people who seem to forget easily or who weren't there for it that NaDa, iloveoov etc.. exhibited the same dominance you see in Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong and they have the medals. When BW finally ends maybe we can revisit this topic with much more clarity. Probably though people will still auto-vote BoxeR T_T.
Remember 11-12-04. 이윤열 ~. |||| ZerO, IriS, JangBi, Stork, BackHo! Mah Jae Yoon is no longer a feared entity.
Dice
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)926 Posts
June 30 2009 02:35 GMT
#143
On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote:
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.

You're crazy if you think that 3 MSLs > 2 OSLs + 1 MSL. I'm sure alot of people can disagree with you on this one.
Ruff
Profile Joined August 2006
Kazakhstan179 Posts
June 30 2009 02:36 GMT
#144
Every player knows this is NaDa!

3 MSL + 3 OSL = best sc player of all time
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
June 30 2009 02:36 GMT
#145
Ah wtf why is there another poll like this already?
beep boop
iloveHieu
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1919 Posts
June 30 2009 02:38 GMT
#146
Bisu should get more votes xD
Xellos <3
Ruff
Profile Joined August 2006
Kazakhstan179 Posts
June 30 2009 02:38 GMT
#147
NaDa 3rd? OMG crazy newcomers! NaDa must be 1st!
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
June 30 2009 02:39 GMT
#148
unless jaedong breaks his arm and quits starcraft forever tomorrow or goes into a horrible Frozean-like slump he's going to be hands down the greatest soon, maybe even after this Starleague season
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
June 30 2009 02:41 GMT
#149
1. Nada (this cannot be debated)

2. Jooooooooolie

3. TBD
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
June 30 2009 02:42 GMT
#150
NaDa = most medals (so far).
Jaedong = most dominating ever when he's in form (Flash is a close second).
Boxer = granddaddy of them all.

Then you get people like oov, Yellow, or Bisu who revolutionized the game, or a race, or at least a matchup... I go with NaDa though. I fully expect Jaedong to equal his medal count at some point, but for now, for me, success = greatness.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
June 30 2009 02:46 GMT
#151
People are voting for different things because they're using different criteria. Jaedong, Bisu, or Flash should be the "most skilled." NaDa, ilovoov, or sAviOr should be "best." BoxeR should be "greatest."

And of course even what I wrote can easily be refuted because those words don't even have specific enough definitions.
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
Neptuneajax
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia206 Posts
June 30 2009 02:47 GMT
#152
yes bisu/jaedong/flash probably have the best mechanics and the ability to beat anyone of Nada/Boxer/OOV in their prime. But how did they get those mechanics and skill? By having truely GREAT players precede them and flesh out the game into what it is today. Without Boxer/Nada/Savior/OOV, Bisu/jaedong/Flash would not be what they are today. Voted boxer
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 30 2009 02:52 GMT
#153
This is eerily similar to who is the Great Of All Time (GOAT) in tennis.
Jaedong
Spanxxx
Profile Joined February 2009
United States408 Posts
June 30 2009 03:09 GMT
#154
so far JD is #1 statistically speaking. some of my favorites are savior, bisu and boxer though.
If people arent trying to pull you down, you arent climbing high enough.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
June 30 2009 03:13 GMT
#155
By who is the best to play ever regardless of the time period, it's probably Jaedong.
By who is the most successful, and most dominating during their era, probably NaDa. No one can match his wins and his 7 year streak of being in the top 30.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
June 30 2009 03:13 GMT
#156
On June 30 2009 12:09 Spanxxx wrote:
so far JD is #1 statistically speaking. some of my favorites are savior, bisu and boxer though.

What stats?
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
June 30 2009 03:20 GMT
#157
How is JD ahead of Nada, Savior and Oov?

Or are people basing this on absolute skill (in which case, the best player of today -- probably either JD or Bisu -- is "best all time")?
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
June 30 2009 03:32 GMT
#158
On June 30 2009 10:19 Try wrote:
Obviously Boxer, he was dominant for a longer period of time than anyone else, and mattered more to the foundation and continuation of esports. No-one on the list even comes close to what Boxer has done for the professional starcraft scene or the length of time for which he was dominant. From 2001 all the way until alittle past the time he joined ACE, Boxer was a beast. Six years he was near the top. You can say that for no one else.

nada?
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
June 30 2009 03:33 GMT
#159
How the hell is JD in #2? NaDa, Savior, oov are all much more deserving. I mean what they did speaks for itself.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 30 2009 03:36 GMT
#160
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
June 30 2009 03:40 GMT
#161
I voted for Jaedong because I didn't see Nada, so let's just pretend I voted properly. Nada ftw.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
June 30 2009 03:48 GMT
#162
The best player of all time is undoubtedly (Z)Jaedong. Since he is the current master he will challenge anyone else's claim of "all-time best"
Maybe you meant to ask; "Who was the best player of their time? That might be (T)BoxeR, (Z)sAviOr, (T)NaDa, or (T)Oov?
AloneInDaBunker
Profile Joined November 2008
Korea (South)123 Posts
June 30 2009 03:54 GMT
#163
boxer for me anytime. he is the most entertaining and exciting player to watch.
Boxer is the truth.
ErlinG
Profile Joined October 2006
Norway75 Posts
June 30 2009 03:56 GMT
#164
Where is GG99 Slayer ?!?!?!?!
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
June 30 2009 04:05 GMT
#165
13:04 KST: Jaedong takes the lead over Boxer 172-171.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Probe.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States877 Posts
June 30 2009 04:07 GMT
#166
This thread sucks. Nal_rA and Reach aren't on the list. Now i have to vote for boxer.
meow
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
June 30 2009 04:09 GMT
#167
i'm pretty sure nada,boxer,yellow, and all of the old school players will tell you that bisu/jaedong/flash arethe best.
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
June 30 2009 04:14 GMT
#168
Jaedong is winning the poll? THIS IS HERESY!

+ Show Spoiler +
... actually in my mind I know that's the correct choice, but in my heart ...
Moderator
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
June 30 2009 04:16 GMT
#169
iloveoov is so under appreciated...
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
SkepTicAL
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada872 Posts
June 30 2009 04:19 GMT
#170
Other: ToT)AeriALs(
AeriALsLighT @AerialsLight
DV8
Profile Joined December 2002
United States1623 Posts
June 30 2009 04:23 GMT
#171
I wonder if I am the only Grrrr supporter here. Giyom Jumped the game by leaps and bounds before boxer ousted him.
KasPra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Estonia983 Posts
June 30 2009 04:27 GMT
#172
Oov and Nada would be my choices. Oov because of his dominance and Nada because of his persistence. Im not gonna vote atm though.
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 04:29:50
June 30 2009 04:29 GMT
#173
Did any other progamer have JD's winning percentage (69% or higher) at this many games (300+)?
I know his career winning % is the highest in Korea right now, but obviously the old greats have had theirs skewed down by all the losses in their post-bonjwa career.

This is a serious question. I dont know how to determine it without simply counting 300 games worth of TLPD for iloveoov, nada, boxer, etc.
Writerman what
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 04:54:04
June 30 2009 04:30 GMT
#174
It's not hard, each page is 40 games, so it's to half of the eighth page, hold on let me check.
This is in order by the poll options.

At 300 games:
Boxer 175-125 58.33%
Yellow 180-120 60.00%
Nada 193-107 64.33% *It should be mentioned that he had a nice streak after this.
Iloveoov 192-108 64.00%
Jaedong 206-94 68.66%
Bisu 190-110 63.33%
Flash hasn't played 300 games yet. Currently at 184-89 67.40%
July 178-122 59.33%
Savior 179-121 59.66%
Reach 159-141 53.00%
Nal_rA 179-121 59.66%
Jaedong
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
June 30 2009 04:37 GMT
#175
NaDa in third???
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
June 30 2009 04:45 GMT
#176
1. Most successful: Boxer
2. Most accomplished: Nada
3. Most loved: Yellow

Boxer will always be the face of progaming. No one will ever take that away from him. There's a reason why people still expect magic from him despite the fact that his first televised tournament win was in 1999. Yes, that's ten years of progaming and counting.

Nada is Nada. Recent top dogs such as Jaedong or Bisu may look comparable to him if we only take into consideration statistics and trophies gathered from "official Kespa" leagues, but if we look at their overall careers, it doesn't even come close. Nada is one of the three progamers (Boxer and Yellow being the other two) to have won double digit number of competitions, and he stacked more victories (televised or otherwise) against progamers than ANY other gamer. As far as progamers are concerned, Nada is the ultimate god of Starcraft. Giyom is the only other plausible name I can think of when we're discussing the "best Starcraft of all time", and that's only because of the stories I've heard of his amateur days before he came to Korea. Considering how hard it is to quantify greatness from those days, Giyom's legend really does become just that - mythology from the ancient days.

As for Yellow, I believe that the universe will implode from the sheer drama if Yellow were ever to win the OGN Starleague.

Some progamer (who are legends themselves) quotes I've heard regarding this issue:

Chojja: Nada is the only progamer that I admit being truly defeated to.
Kingdom: With Oov, I still felt capable of winning even I was defeated ten consecutive times. With Nada, I only felt fear.
July: In my mind, Yellow is the greatest zerg ever. He did things that weren't humanly possible.
TL+ Member
Asianic
Profile Joined January 2009
Singapore99 Posts
June 30 2009 04:53 GMT
#177
iloveoov deserves more
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
June 30 2009 04:55 GMT
#178
I consider NaDa the Greatest of All Time (GOAT!) Obviously the most accomplished, too.

In terms of raw skills, today's bests are at the top. Bisu, Flash, Jaedong...And that's why it's hard to compare players from different eras in any sport.
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