Best starcraft player of all time?

On June 30 2009 05:36 cz wrote:
Do you mean highest absolute skill level or highest relative skill level for an extended period, or overall greatest contribution to the game, or longest period of dominance?

There are many ways of interpreting this question.

On June 30 2009 05:29 B1nary wrote:
Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play.

lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^

On June 30 2009 05:20 plated.rawr wrote:
Let's rename this thread to "Greatest fanboy-base on TeamLiquid of all time!" instead.

On June 30 2009 05:42 Pufftrees wrote:
I voted for Jaedong because in his prime I think he can beat anyone else in a bo7 series in their prime. OfC these are speculative matches (like saying Tyson in prime vs Ali etc), but Jaedong is just fucking ridiculous combination of everything the best player should be.

On June 30 2009 05:59 Mania[K]al wrote:


Yeah so far JD has been amazing at playing over 80% ZvZs and then winning most of his games in the new Zerg favored map pool.


I hope someone misses my sarcasm.

On June 30 2009 06:09 Avidkeystamper wrote:

Don't get bitter if someone besides your favorite player wins, god forbid, an internet poll.
Also, "nuthugger" is a new one. XD

On June 30 2009 06:21 Mania[K]al wrote:



Of course im not bitter, Im just stating if youre going to make a thread about the best SC players at least do it right. SC2 brought in tons of brand new kids that dont know what the oldschoolers were capable of and all they know is how to scream OH MY GOD EE JAE DONG!!! millions of times everywhere they see something SC related.

On June 30 2009 05:48 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Iloveoov.

On June 30 2009 06:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Jaedong did popularize 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. So I wouldn't say he didn't make an impact.

On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

On June 30 2009 06:36 blueblimp wrote:
Depends in what sense:

Most consistent high skill? Nada, clearly.

Highest absolute skill (in their prime)? Jaedong, or maybe Bisu, since the general skill level of pros is so high now.

Highest relative skill (in their prime)? One of the bonjwas, since that's what bonjwa means.

Biggest impact on the game as a game? I'd argue iloveoov, but there are other good choices here: Boxer, Savior, and old-school players I don't know well enough. Players known for reinventing certain match-ups are decent choices too, like Bisu or Fantasy. Certainly not Jaedong, since no one knows the secret of his zvz, and I don't think he's made a big impact in other match-ups.

Biggest impact on the game as an eSport? Boxer.

On June 30 2009 06:44 Djabanete wrote:
Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of right now.

Could any "best" players from previous years beat them in a Bo5?

No.

Jaedong and Bisu are the best players of all time.

On June 30 2009 06:48 Mania[K]al wrote:


Typical JD fanboi upset that not everyone in the world likes watching a ball of mutas win every game.

On June 30 2009 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This doesn't work since there's no right answer. But I'll be glad to know that Jaedong has the biggest fanbase on TL! Can Bisu fans overtake us?!

On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.

On June 30 2009 06:55 Avidkeystamper wrote:

I remember you, you're the guy that said why do jaedong fanbois make 30 thread whenever he loses, in response to the strategical question about the viability of movie's dragoon timing build. Please stop trolling and lay off the hate.

On June 30 2009 06:55 danieldrsa wrote:


We are realist and vote on Boxer

On June 30 2009 06:59 Mania[K]al wrote:



And youre that guy that gets very upset when JD loses and tries to blame it on something irrational other than JD being outplayed, because we all know thats not possible.

On June 19 2009 13:27 Mania[K]al wrote:
I like how when JD loses there has to be a 3 page thread to discuss it.

JD fanbois make me sick.

On June 20 2009 11:35 Mania[K]al wrote:
JEADONG LOST?

OH MY GOD SOMEONE START A THREAD, QUICK!

On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.

On June 30 2009 06:18 LosingID8 wrote:
it's nada you stupids.

On June 30 2009 07:14 Djabanete wrote:


If Person A is better now than Person B ever was, how can Person B be the best ever?

On June 30 2009 07:35 FranzF1 wrote:
LOL the most annoying thing for me is that people here dont understand that TIMEFRAMES are very important.. YOU CANT COMPARE BOXER TO JAEDONG... its simply YOU CANT, is comparing people that played and learning 2 diferent games... YOU SIMPLY DONT KNOW how the game was before Boxer (not just him... all the older gamers like him, yellow, nal_ra,etc...). Those People learn a game when builds orden doesn't even exist... it was all instinct.

Honestly I think that if you go back in time and bring the little Boxer (14 yrs old) and you show him and teach him starcraft the same way that Jaedong, Flash and Bisu learned HE WILL BE A FUCKING BEAST TEARING APART ALL THE SKILLES NOOBS.

=P

sry for my english and the mayus but i just cant be chill when people compare the skills of olders players vs new players its just stupid.

On June 30 2009 07:00 Avidkeystamper wrote:

Boxer votes + Bisu votes -impartial boxer votes=?! Hmm, it's close.


Heres the evidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95768

On June 30 2009 07:42 Dice84 wrote:
Boxer: "Jaedong is the best player in the world" - October 2008

On June 30 2009 08:22 Leath wrote:
Boxer: #1 cuz if you look Starcraft in the dictionary, BoXeR should define it. He was bonjwa, he invented a lot of shit, still wins games today and he was there since the beginning. I just cant think of sc without BoXeR

NaDa: #2 Cuz he is the most self accomplished player of all time. He was #1 in KEspA for like 18 months in a row when he was dominating. To this date he remains the most consistent player, and still an opponent to fear.

Bisu: #3! Bisu is a freaking hero. Peaking with the highest ELO of 2352 according to TLPD. Bisu broke the trend of Protoss fearing Zergs so much and I think it brought sc to the perfect balance. First protoss to ever make it to #1 in KeSPa. I would say Bisu is the best player sc has ever seen (along side with JaeDong and Flash).

JaeDong: #4... What can I say? Lol, this dude is just amazing in every single and possible way. But, I would keep him in #4 just because Bisu did something more spectacular in his career... In my opinion...

Flash: #5, well Flash is possibly as good as they come. Those last three players are like the top of the top for the races. I cant imagine anyone surpassing their skill level. Theyre just too Miraculously good. Maybe someday, someone will dethrone JaeDong, Bisu and Flash. But event hen I think they will remain immortalized. Perfect play all the way.

On June 30 2009 05:57 samachking wrote:
Voted JD for best right now.

On June 30 2009 06:27 ActualSteve wrote:
I have been following Korean SC for almost 2 years.

NEVER have I seen Jaedong fade.
NEVER have I seen Bisu fade.

On June 30 2009 05:20 plated.rawr wrote:
Let's rename this thread to "Greatest fanboy-base on TeamLiquid of all time!" instead.

On June 30 2009 05:20 jhNz wrote:
where is nal_ra ?! T_T

On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.

On June 30 2009 09:10 graemej wrote:


i'd say yes, boxer /nada/ ra would lose even in their prime to jd/bisu in their prime

On June 30 2009 07:51 Athos wrote:
Why the hell is Jaedong ranked so high. The answer is so fricking fickle.


In terms of who's done the most for the game and is generally the most awesome, BoxeR

In terms of who has been consistently good and won the most stuff, NaDa.

In terms of who is the best right now, Jaedong.


The answer should be NaDa, Jaedong still needs to win 2 more OSLs before he can be considered in the same league.

On June 30 2009 09:25 Borgir wrote:
Combat-EX yo

On June 30 2009 08:59 jeddus wrote:
NaDa would be my pick for all-time best.

Most popular would be Boxer.

On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote:


Important distinction there.

If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior.

NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close.

Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks.

When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion.

On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote:

Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago?

No.

On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote:


Important distinction there.

If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior.

NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close.

Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks.

When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion.

On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote:
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.

On June 30 2009 05:57 GGQ wrote:
I love Bisu, but anyone who doesn't vote NaDa for this is just wrong.

The 2300 Club; Top 5 Peak ELO's
Bisu SKT 2352
Jaedong OZ 2343
iloveoov SKT 2329
Flash KT 2322
sAviOr CJ 2301

- and other notables;
NaDa FOX 2285 (7th)
BoxeR SKT 2224 (Way back)

On June 30 2009 05:29 B1nary wrote:
Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play.

lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^

On June 30 2009 10:58 skronch wrote:
wow, JD is surprisingly close to the boxer autovote threshold O.o

On June 30 2009 10:11 lingallin wrote:

For you best means most accomplished, that's not what it means for everyone.

On June 30 2009 10:10 Jayme wrote:

Yea but you're talking about medals and not pure skill here.

That's why this poll fails.

If we're talking about just skill even Bonjwa Nada would have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with Jaedong. He'd probably get eaten alive really seeing as he lost constantly against Savior and Jaedong's mechanical skills far and away surpass that of Savior.

On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote:
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.

On June 30 2009 12:09 Spanxxx wrote:
so far JD is #1 statistically speaking. some of my favorites are savior, bisu and boxer though.

On June 30 2009 10:19 Try wrote:
Obviously Boxer, he was dominant for a longer period of time than anyone else, and mattered more to the foundation and continuation of esports. No-one on the list even comes close to what Boxer has done for the professional starcraft scene or the length of time for which he was dominant. From 2001 all the way until alittle past the time he joined ACE, Boxer was a beast. Six years he was near the top. You can say that for no one else.