EPTNBA Playoffs 09 - Page 82
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On May 15 2009 01:37 Ace wrote: I was with you until this part of the post. Denver has a better bench than the Lakers? When has Denver's bench EVER been credited this year as being one of the top? Seriously I'd love to see an article supporting this. Denver has never played like a 60 win juggernaut. Not once this season. Is this Dubya? Let's look at the cold heart data tonight. Fisher's definitely starter in name only over farmar. Lamar's definitely a starter over Bynum. Andrew Bynum: 0-3 0 points Derek Fisher: 1-7 2 points Luke Walton: 0-5 0 points Shannon Brown: 0-3 0 points Sasha Vujacic: 1-3 2 points Compared to... JR smith, 6th man of the year candidate. Chris Anderson, 2nd in blocks (2.46, howard has 2.9 and the next closest is 2.1) in the entire league off of limited minutes, Anthony Carter, so so but has been playing well in the playoffs. The nuggets have been using those 3 in the playoffs, kleiza when the bigs get in foul trouble. Kleiza > Josh Powell. I don't know what happened to vujacic. He's shooting under .400 all season, maybe last year was an anomaly. Every time walton takes a shot, I congratulate the opponents defense for forcing walton to take a shot. The fisher-farmar combo was great last year and declining this year, la fans are hoping farmar will finally get decent with extended minutes. The lakers bench is sometimes good, sometimes terrible backup point guards, Bynum who was good pre-injury/Odom who underachieves when he's not starting, and scrubs. If Bynum's playing well enough, the bench is good. Otherwise, they are not good. Where do you think this lakers giving up huge leads comes from? Check hollinger's thing on the nuggets' last 15 games. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
I feel bad for Boston. Every win is like a Pyrrhic victory. Boston has a miniscule chance of winning it all, and Pierce and Allen need extra games like teenagers need Bristol Palin's abstinence advice. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Your calling Jr Smith who's only an offensive player and trash defensively and Birdman who's the exact opposite over Lamar Odom+Walton+Vujachic? lololololololololol are you serious? Then you try to pull the Lamar is a starter over Bynum card to post Bynum's bad numbers -> lololololol. Look, Lamar comes off the bench. That's how it is. Being such you can't just all willy nilly plug whoever you want into your "statistics" and say HERE THIS IS THE LAKERS BENCH. It's even more amusing you're using the data from tonight's game as if it's any proof. How about you use the data from when the Nuggets and Lakers went head to head if you want to paint anything even resembling a picture. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
4 1 66 4-16 0-5 6-6 Vujacic vs nuggets 4 0 63 6-27 2-17 6-7 You want to check the nuggets/lakers bench playoff stats, be my guest. Though they always quote bench points on the air, I can't find a compiled source. Go do some by hand. And tell me how many games Bynum started in the playoffs please. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
13pts 4 assists 4 rebounds 1 TO on 4 for 13 shooting 18 pts 3 assists 6 rebounds 5 TOs on 6 for 12 shooting 22pts 2 assists 4 rebounds 0 TO on 6 for 14 shooting (10 FTAs explains this one) 19 pts 1 assist 2 rebounds 1 TO on 6 of 15 shooting And this guy is supposed to be the star of the bench? Like I said all he can do is score and nothing else. This guy is another Ben Gordon but far worse since he's usually not hot at all. Anthony Carter 20pts 6 assists 6 rebounds 6 TOs on 8 for 9 shooting 2pts 1 assist 0 rebounds 1 TO on 1 for 1 shooting 0pts 1 assist 2 rebounds 1 TO on 0 for 2 shooting 5 pts 4 assists 2 rebounds 2 TOs on 2 for 4 shooting Are you sure this is the bench you want to keep tooting about? The only guy I'd give a nod to is Birdman - he had a 3 block and 7 block game against the Lakers. Everyone else on that bench is just fodder for the Lakers second unit. They are just lucky that the starters play more minutes in the playoffs because I doubt George Karl really wants these guys playing heavy doses vs Odom and Walton (as bad as he is). Bynum started 3 out of 5 games in the Utah series and 3 out of 6 games in the Houston series. Are you sure he's always coming off the bench now? ^_^ | ||
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no_comprender
Australia91 Posts
true, jr smith isn't a great defender, but it's not like they lose much with him coming in, no one on the nuggets is a lockdown perimeter defender, he's athletic enough to stay with lots of guards 1on1 anyway, he's more of a clueless defender than a bad one. vujacic and walton are worse defensively than smith and don't have 10% of his offesnive potency. his real value is that they can take out carmelo or whoever and still have a POTENT scorer on the floor. and he's been surprisingly consistent these playoffs, also who on the lakers can check him after you've got ariza on carmelo? they can't use kobe too much cos smith will draw fouls and tire him out. so it's odom who's too slow or someone else who'll get killed birdman is great because he actually brings something to the table that the starting lineup doesn't have and he keeps the energy going. no real weakness for the bridman, he knows his role and brings it every night. when he's in they play uptempo so his lack of any offensive skill whatsoever is never really exposed klieza hasn't had a great year but he's a solid player, he's a big body and a good shooter carter isn't good, but he's less of a liability than fisher at this point so whatever, the rest of them are pretty trash but they don't play so it doesn't matter but the major reason why the nuggets bench is better is this: when the lakers bring bench guys on, they really drop a level, they revolve around the play of gasol and kobe so much that if if the bench guys + ariza/odom aren't playing well then the lakers really suffer. also if kobe and gasol aren't playing well, the whole team kidna collapses because the bench loses confidence. thats why they can get owned in game 4 and come out and slaughter the rockets in game 5, they really sink or swim due to their best players and the bench doesn't really have the ability to get them back in it. the only big positive i see in lakers bench vs the nuggets is that shannon brown has everything you need to gaurd billups. also i haven't seen much of him, but why don't lakers play josh powell more, i saw him a few times for the mavs and he looked like a solid, big-bodied player the nuggets bench basically slots right in, they have a freeflowing 1on1 system with 4-5 guys who can put up big numbers basically at random, and most of their players who don't really care who else they're on with so their level doesn't drop off as much as the lakers do when kobe/gasol aren't on the floor. so i guess you could say that it's not so much nuggets having a better bench, but they rely way less on their bench playing well so their bench is less of a liability, and thus less of a weakness for the team, which is basically what you're doing when you're comparing benches | ||
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eStoniaNBoY
Switzerland439 Posts
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eStoniaNBoY
Switzerland439 Posts
Might be something considering Tex Winter who suffered a stroke some time ago? Phil Jackson is obviously trying to keep things under control and not to panic. Look at him at during press conferences, he`s and old guy who knows best how to keep media away from his team and takes the shots at himself. He probably thinks about retirement once again just like he did after Lakers lost to Pistons. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14894 Posts
god it'd be great if they won | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Sanity.
United States704 Posts
but then smashed by denver.  | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On May 15 2009 22:33 citi.zen wrote: Lakers lost for two reasons: missed many good wide open shots, and cannot defend pick & roll involving PG. Houston must collapse on inside players, since the 6'6 starting "center" and Scola need help badly. This frees up perimeter guys from LAL but they only shot 5-23 from downtown. They should win game 7 and will be interesting to see how they will do against Denver. I actually think Denver is a bit easier for LAL to play against since Fisher is actually good against slower and stronger PGs. Cle will be the real challenge. Not defending the pick and roll is really bad for playoffs, and also happens to be Denver's pg only way to create half-court offense. Glad the Rockets won but want LA to win so they beat Denver and for a Kobe/Lebron finals. | ||
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TubbySmurf
United States11 Posts
I believe Denver is at a statistical disadvantage against Lakers (regular season games between them would show this), but Denver plays with more heart and wants to win more. You can't measure that but it's a major factor in the playoffs. Rockets vrs Denver would be an intense and exciting West finals, and Rockets deserve it more based on how they are playing. I hope Rockets win, although it looks unlikely. Celtics and Orlando duke it out in a painful-to-watch semi final. Celtics don't have the weapons to win an Eastern final against the Cavs. They are tired and worn out picking up the slack from KG's injury. Orlando's coach is an idiot, which is hampering his teams true ability. DHoward is a beast, and if his coach would let him take over a game the way LBJ's coach does, Orlando would be truly nasty. As is... I think Celtics will edge out Orlando in Boston for game 7, and get crushed by Cavs in the East final. It won't even be close, which is sad. Celtics have heart and even though I don't like Boston teams, I respect Celtics effort in these playoffs. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13007 Posts
Pull the finger out! (actually don't cause I hate you Lakers!) | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
I don't understand why the Lakers don't just post up whatever non-Hayes post defender is in the game, as opposed to blindly feeding Gasol when it's been proven that Hayes gives him a lot of trouble. Hayes is really the only guy who can neutralize the Lakers' bigs' height advantage. If Hayes is guarding Gasol, then post up Bynum on Scola, and vice-versa. Gasol should've also figured out by now that his best shot at scoring against Hayes is by facing him up and using his quickness, ball-handling, and mid-range jumper against him. Trying to overpower and back Hayes down doesn't work, and all he's left with is throwing hook shots over his outstretched arms about 5 feet out. I continue to be confused by the PG usage in the past few games. Fisher obviously struggles to keep up with Brooks, so why continue to play him so many minutes against him? Farmar can get lost at times and may not work as hard, but he's quicker and has also been playing better on offense lately. When Lowry is in, put Shannon on him because Farmar gets overpowered by him and Fisher can't keep him out of the paint. Quite simple. Brooks = Farmar, Lowry = Shannon. The Rockets are being smart by playing Battier exclusively against Kobe, which works well, no reason why the Lakers can't do the same with the PGs. That technical against Kobe on Artest should definitely be rescinded. It was a foul on Artest, and he reacted by flopping his head back when nothing happened. Further evidence of the idiocy of the officials that game was the foul against Farmar when Brooks brushed him while running past the halfcourt line shortly thereafter. Also, while Landry's first dunk was a very nice, aggressive attack on the basket, you could see pretty clearly that he used his offhand to deflect Odom's arm away. I'm not going to argue that the Lakers lost because of the refs though, because I think the refs were bad in general and I can't definitely say it was one-sided. Fact is that the Lakers shouldn't have even left it in the hands of the ref, because they should've been leading from the outset instead of letting the Rockets seize a big lead in the first quarter. | ||
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