EPTNBA Playoffs 09 - Page 149
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On May 31 2009 12:47 FreeZEternal wrote: lol i'm not fan of LeBron but why the hate? he's clearly the best player in the NBA at this moment (running away...) that is an incorrect statement | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On May 31 2009 13:01 igotmyown wrote: Reportedly Lebron was very upset and didn't want to talk to anyone. I'm guessing he thought he deserved more calls, and when he didn't get them it got to his head and took him off his game. really? that easy? how can he be mvp? | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
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no_comprender
Australia91 Posts
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
On May 31 2009 13:22 no_comprender wrote: i think he probably is the best these days. put lebron on the lakers and they get even better due to him being a better passer (plus his other talents), put kobe on the cavs and they're the 2004-7 lakers. i think kobe is probably a more skilled player but what lebron brings to a team trumps kobes induvidual greatness imo i totally agree with the skill and talent kobe's got, he could make his teammates SO MUCH better. but we all know that's not how he plays *sigh* | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 31 2009 13:22 no_comprender wrote: i think he probably is the best these days. put lebron on the lakers and they get even better due to him being a better passer (plus his other talents), put kobe on the cavs and they're the 2004-7 lakers. i think kobe is probably a more skilled player but what lebron brings to a team trumps kobes induvidual greatness imo with the results of these playoffs I think that analysis is soundly defeated. | ||
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no_comprender
Australia91 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
just because LeBron can make people around him better doesn't make him the better player. think about the criteria you can possibly use to define "good player" ... I think there are 3 different ways you can look at it: (1) Winning - whoever wins the most is the best player (2) Individual Skill - whoever has the most skill is the best player (3) "Teammate" - whoever makes others better as a result of him being there is the best player LeBron can take #3 certainly, almost nobody disputes that. But, is he the most skilled player? No. Nobody who knows the game of basketball would think that LeBron is more skilled than Kobe, it's not even an argument. Also, has LeBron won more than Kobe? No. Kobe would take #1 and #2. I don't know how you can argue that. Let's look at a few things: - LeBron has CRUMBLED in these kinds of pressure situations in the playoffs where expectations are high for him to produce. He has had 3-4 really memorable games in the playoffs. 1) 45 points against Detoit in East Finals 2007, 2) Game 5 vs Orlando, 3) Game 7 vs Boston last year where he had 47. Aside from those games (please don't count game 2 of Orlando that was 1 lucky ass shot after he played terribly the entire 4th quarter), he hasn't willed many wins. Where was LeBron in the finals against the Spurs? Nowhere. - LeBron gets some INSANE stats but it's because he does EVERYTHING for his team. Think he'll get 40/9/8 on the Lakers? Nope.. he'd probably be getting Kobe's numbers. Why? The Lakers have 3 people who can easily average ~10 rebounds per game (Odom, Gasol, Bynum) so LeBron wouldn't get as many rebounds. The Lakers have Walton, Fisher, Farmar, and Odom who are pretty solid passers and each can get 2-4 assists/game... LeBron wouldn't get as many assists. There are like 8 people on the Lakers who could potentially score ~10/game so he wouldn't get as many points either. If you think about it the fact that Kobe can average 30/5/5 on that team is fucking amazing. I'm not downplaying LeBron's stats either, because obviously nobody has done that ever except Big O, and I doubt Kobe would even get those numbers if he was on Clevland. But really, who gives a shit if you have amazing stats if you're not winning? LeBron got crazy numbers, but he's eliminated. Kobe's numbers aren't as good but he's in the finals. You can say "Kobe's supporting cast is better"... have you watched the Laker games in the playoffs? The Laker supporting cast played approximately TWO good games. Kobe pretty much willed every other win by himself. LeBron's supporting cast played well for 2 games too... they won game 5, and today they got raped even though Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varajao played really strong games. You can call me a Kobe fanboy if you want but if you take a step back and actually look at who produces results you will see the "who's better" question is and has been answered for quite awhile. I really can't see ANY legitimate argument for LeBron being better aside from "he makes other people better" Except here's the thing: if he's so good at making other people better why hasn't he been able to do it when it counts? If Kobe's so selfish and doesn't make others better the way LeBron does... why have the Lakers supporting cast started picking it up at just the right moment to make the push to the finals? Why has Kobe been able to get more wins (against MUCH harder competition) by himself than LeBron (even though LeBron has 10x better stats?). Look at the evidence and the question answers itself. Maybe now the media will get LeBron's nuts off their collective chin. 66 wins in the season doesn't mean shit if you can't beat the first real opponent you're faced off against in the playoffs. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On May 31 2009 13:25 unknown.sam wrote: i totally agree with the skill and talent kobe's got, he could make his teammates SO MUCH better. but we all know that's not how he plays *sigh* physical talent does not equal to how smart a player is, some of kobe's teammate isn't as smart as they are talented. It is painful for the smart players to watch their teammates fail over and over again on the same shit game after game. Labron's team failed this year because they failed at defending. They scored more than enough to beat the magics, only if they can play defense. Prior to the magic series, they held their opponent to 87points a game, as they themselves score close to 100pts per game in which they did maintain during the Magic series. Magics averaged only 96 points a game in the playoffs, yet they score more than that vs the Cavs, all the statistics pointing toward the failure at defense instead of Cav's offense. Labron made up for all the epic fails in the offensive end for his team, but not on the defensive end, it is simply physically not possible as it takes all 5 to play good defense, and the defense is only as strong as the weakest link. When we talk about failing at defense, Labron himself also failed at defending. his man constantly wild open, he was slow on the rotate, it takes 5 players communicating constantly to play zone, he wasn't doing enough in the defensive end. if you look at Kobe, he's guarding the other team's best point guard or shooting guarder every time the game is down to the last few minutes. When each position could be game deciding. you will see Kobe on Tony Parker, on Nash, on Phillip or Anthony. He prevents penetration and creates a difficult shot for whomever he's guarding. He's good at fighting through pick and rolls, whereas Labron just leave Lewis right open in that game 4 deciding shot. | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On May 31 2009 14:16 Xeris wrote: Xeris saying Kobe is better than LeBron is a bit like Artosis saying Protoss is imbalanced, but I have to admit you have a point. yes they do. just because LeBron can make people around him better doesn't make him the better player. think about the criteria you can possibly use to define "good player" ... I think there are 3 different ways you can look at it: (1) Winning - whoever wins the most is the best player (2) Individual Skill - whoever has the most skill is the best player (3) "Teammate" - whoever makes others better as a result of him being there is the best player LeBron can take #3 certainly, almost nobody disputes that. But, is he the most skilled player? No. Nobody who knows the game of basketball would think that LeBron is more skilled than Kobe, it's not even an argument. Also, has LeBron won more than Kobe? No. Kobe would take #1 and #2. I don't know how you can argue that. Let's look at a few things: - LeBron has CRUMBLED in these kinds of pressure situations in the playoffs where expectations are high for him to produce. He has had 3-4 really memorable games in the playoffs. 1) 45 points against Detoit in East Finals 2007, 2) Game 5 vs Orlando, 3) Game 7 vs Boston last year where he had 47. Aside from those games (please don't count game 2 of Orlando that was 1 lucky ass shot after he played terribly the entire 4th quarter), he hasn't willed many wins. Where was LeBron in the finals against the Spurs? Nowhere. - LeBron gets some INSANE stats but it's because he does EVERYTHING for his team. Think he'll get 40/9/8 on the Lakers? Nope.. he'd probably be getting Kobe's numbers. Why? The Lakers have 3 people who can easily average ~10 rebounds per game (Odom, Gasol, Bynum) so LeBron wouldn't get as many rebounds. The Lakers have Walton, Fisher, Farmar, and Odom who are pretty solid passers and each can get 2-4 assists/game... LeBron wouldn't get as many assists. There are like 8 people on the Lakers who could potentially score ~10/game so he wouldn't get as many points either. If you think about it the fact that Kobe can average 30/5/5 on that team is fucking amazing. I'm not downplaying LeBron's stats either, because obviously nobody has done that ever except Big O, and I doubt Kobe would even get those numbers if he was on Clevland. But really, who gives a shit if you have amazing stats if you're not winning? LeBron got crazy numbers, but he's eliminated. Kobe's numbers aren't as good but he's in the finals. You can say "Kobe's supporting cast is better"... have you watched the Laker games in the playoffs? The Laker supporting cast played approximately TWO good games. Kobe pretty much willed every other win by himself. LeBron's supporting cast played well for 2 games too... they won game 5, and today they got raped even though Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varajao played really strong games. You can call me a Kobe fanboy if you want but if you take a step back and actually look at who produces results you will see the "who's better" question is and has been answered for quite awhile. I really can't see ANY legitimate argument for LeBron being better aside from "he makes other people better" Except here's the thing: if he's so good at making other people better why hasn't he been able to do it when it counts? If Kobe's so selfish and doesn't make others better the way LeBron does... why have the Lakers supporting cast started picking it up at just the right moment to make the push to the finals? Why has Kobe been able to get more wins (against MUCH harder competition) by himself than LeBron (even though LeBron has 10x better stats?). Look at the evidence and the question answers itself. Maybe now the media will get LeBron's nuts off their collective chin. 66 wins in the season doesn't mean shit if you can't beat the first real opponent you're faced off against in the playoffs. | ||
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Myst-
United States96 Posts
As a Laker fan since I was a child, go Lakers! :D | ||
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shavingcream66
United States1219 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
My best friend HATES Kobe, and I cam up with a lot of the thoughts in my post while talking to him about Kobe being better than LeBron. He's one of the biggest Kobe haters there is and he admits Kobe is better. He plays basketball at the collegiate level, he pretty much lives basketball and knows the game better than I do. Same with my cousin. Same with every rational real basketball player I've talked to. People who understand this know. The media is all over LeBron because they get caught up in the hype and like to sensationalize. Before this year EVERYONE said Kobe was better than LeBron. Then the hype train started rolling with Clevland beating everyone so easily. All of a sudden LeBron became better. And look how the season ended for him. If he truly had reached a new plateau and become better than Kobe it would be Clevland in the finals. Instead they're going home and Kobe is 4 wins away from his 4th title. Maybe LeBron will be better when his career is over, people might say "after 15 years of Kobe and 15 years of LeBron, LeBron turned out better". But RIGHT NOW, there is no dispute. Let's face it, most of the people posting here haven't played basketball at a highly competitive level. It's like SC2GG commentators pretending to understand BW, which is why there are so many uninformed opinions or people who like to just quote stats. If you really look at it objectively there is a clear answer to the question of who's better. Until someone can present me in a clear logical way without resorting to quoting stats or how much of a physical freak LeBron is, that LeBron is the better player... I'm going to have to say you are wrong. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 31 2009 14:41 Myst- wrote: 2010: Lebron to NY, unless the Cleveland front office can put some talent around him. As a Laker fan since I was a child, go Lakers! :D no. lol. Lebron is never going to NY. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On May 31 2009 14:44 Xeris wrote: If you really look at it objectively there is a clear answer to the question of who's better. Until someone can present me in a clear logical way without resorting to quoting stats or how much of a physical freak LeBron is, that LeBron is the better player... I'm going to have to say you are wrong. The stats I quote says Labron failed at defense, Kobe did not. So even with quoting of stats, Kobe's team is better than Labron's team at defense, cause we all know defense wins championships and offense sells tickets. | ||
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kdog3683
United States916 Posts
Magic scored so many easy points off good pick/rolls, forcing the double on Howard creating chances for rotating the ball and finding open guy. All Cleveland does is spread the field and give Lebron or dahntay or some other wannabe Jordan a chance to score. And then the defense collapses on that guy and he puts up some disgusting shot. Fucking Cavs lost me money I'm pissed. Of all their shots, maybe 10% were good ones. | ||
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