Klazart uploaded a video asking for help to get his book a chance to get reviewed and with that a chance of getting signed:
this has apparently caused HUGE mess on the website http://www.authonomy.com/ as klazart came from nowhere and with a huge mob of fans rocketed his book's ratings up as well as destroying the veterans over there's influence ranking. Due to a faulty system obviousy. Reading the forums over there has been really entertaining for me. http://www.authonomy.com/Forum/Threads.aspx?forumId=2 edit: (basically in the video klazart asks his fans to "back" his book, which will give it a popularity rating which will be used by harpercollins to determine which books deserves a review and thus a chance of getting signed)
This seems to be a trend in internet voting/polling now. Where someone can get a huge amount of votes from internet communities for some other community/contest. Then those others get totally bent out of shape calling it cheating or rigging or whatever. But I think it is perfectly legitimate for a number of reasons. I really can't see any negative side of doing this, can anyone else?
hahaha this is great...did you read the comments on his book? It looks like a stream of his fans from YouTube fighting with old members of the site, who are deriding them for supporting his book without having read it. Do they know how the internets work?
The funniest part is that it looks like someone with the username Mathematics has spammed up the entire comment thread by copy/pasting entire math articles from Wikipedia - and people are taking him seriously!!
This is amazing - it's like a clash of "forum culture" with people who are totally unaware of its existence.
There are tons of disparaging comments about gamers in the comment thread - really sad stuff in there. Even though Klaz is pretty unpopular amongst staff at TL, I think we should support his book because
a) this is hilarious. b) anyone who categorically insults gamers deserves to pranked, at the very least.
On March 22 2009 14:33 CharlieMurphy wrote: This seems to be a trend in internet voting/polling now. Where someone can get a huge amount of votes from internet communities for some other community/contest. Then those others get totally bent out of shape calling it cheating or rigging or whatever. But I think it is perfectly legitimate for a number of reasons. I really can't see any negative side of doing this, can anyone else?
Well considering these particular circumstances, it's obvious that this was never what anyone at authonomy intended to happen when they wrote the rules...
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Wow, Klazarts the man. He even defends what he did brilliantly. And I laughed so hard at those snobby book forumgoers. And I thought Teamliquid was elitist.
wow.. some of the comments posted by so called "writers" are really sad, those people need a life. Some are oozing out some much jealousy it's pathetic lol. .
On March 22 2009 14:44 Physician wrote: wow.. some of the comments posted by so called "writers" are really sad, those people need a life. Some are oozing out some much jealousy it's pathetic lol. .
Yea they are old fuckers who spend their waking moments trying to be a so-called writer and struggle at doing it (and probably suck and think they are the shit). Then Klazart comes in and shows them they are worthless and doing it wrong.
On March 22 2009 14:33 CharlieMurphy wrote: This seems to be a trend in internet voting/polling now. Where someone can get a huge amount of votes from internet communities for some other community/contest. Then those others get totally bent out of shape calling it cheating or rigging or whatever. But I think it is perfectly legitimate for a number of reasons. I really can't see any negative side of doing this, can anyone else?
I'm not saying it's not legitimate, but I can understand if the people of the site are pissed off.
If you've got a smallish community, and the administration runs a contest, it's to encourage new people to join and participate in the community and then also reward the people who have been supporting that community. I see it as that if someone is going to do what Klazart did, that's fine, but don't be surprised if you get disqualified by the admins, or hated on by the other participants.
EDIT: It seems that the Klazart thing is more than a small community and it's a monthly deal. I guess what I said doesn't necessarily apply to this situation, but to others where it's a one off small community competition I think it's pretty valid.
Number theory is the branch of pure mathematics concerned with the properties of numbers in general, and integers in particular, as well as the wider classes of problems that arise from their study.
Number theory may be subdivided into several fields, according to the methods used and the type of questions investigated. (See the list of number theory topics.)
The term "arithmetic" is also used to refer to number theory. This is a somewhat older term, which is no longer as popular as it once was. Number theory used to be called the higher arithmetic, but this too is dropping out of use. Nevertheless, it still shows up in the names of mathematical fields (arithmetic functions, arithmetic of elliptic curves).
Abstract algebra is the subject area of mathematics that studies algebraic structures, such as groups, rings, fields, modules, vector spaces, and algebras. The phrase abstract algebra was coined at the turn of the 20th century to distinguish this area from what was normally referred to as algebra, the study of the rules for manipulating formulas and algebraic expressions involving unknowns and real or complex numbers, often now called elementary algebra. The distinction is rarely made in more recent writings.
Contemporary mathematics and mathematical physics make intensive use of abstract algebra; for example, theoretical physics draws on Lie algebras. Subject areas such as algebraic number theory, algebraic topology, and algebraic geometry apply algebraic methods to other areas of mathematics. Representation theory, roughly speaking, takes the 'abstract' out of 'abstract algebra', studying the concrete side of a given structure; see model theory.
Two mathematical subject areas that study the properties of algebraic structures viewed as a whole are universal algebra and category theory. Algebraic structures, together with the associated homomorphisms, form categories. Category theory is a powerful formalism for studying and comparing different algebraic structures. In mathematics and abstract algebra, group theory studies the algebraic structures known as groups.
The concept of a group is central to abstract algebra: other well-known algebraic structures, such as rings, fields, and vector spaces can all be seen as groups endowed with additional operations and axioms. Groups recur throughout mathematics, and the methods of group theory have strongly influenced many parts of algebra. Linear algebraic groups and Lie groups are two branches of group theory that have experienced tremendous advances and have become subject areas in their own right.
Various physical systems, such as crystals and the hydrogen atom, can be modelled by symmetry groups. Thus group theory and the closely related representation theory have many applications in physics and chemistry.
Order theory is a branch of mathematics that studies various kinds of binary relations that capture the intuitive notion of ordering, providing a framework for saying when one thing is "less than" or "precedes" another. This article gives a detailed introduction to the field and includes some of the most basic definitions. For a quick lookup of order-theoretic terms, there is also an order theory glossary. A list of order topics collects the various articles in the vicinity of order theory.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory)
Authonomy member:
@Mathematics
Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge of math? I'm currently in school getting my master's math. My thesis is: Topology and Stability of Integrable Vortex Filaments.
His has Indian ancestry but was born and bread in Ireland is what he claims. If you listen closely though he Irish accent is really mild and he has significant American influence.
On March 22 2009 14:51 Caller wrote: Hell fellow literary afficionados, I am Klazart. Do you mind if me and a couple friends come in? I've got the Verizon network Star Craft community with me, is that ok?
Number theory is the branch of pure mathematics concerned with the properties of numbers in general, and integers in particular, as well as the wider classes of problems that arise from their study.
Number theory may be subdivided into several fields, according to the methods used and the type of questions investigated. (See the list of number theory topics.)
The term "arithmetic" is also used to refer to number theory. This is a somewhat older term, which is no longer as popular as it once was. Number theory used to be called the higher arithmetic, but this too is dropping out of use. Nevertheless, it still shows up in the names of mathematical fields (arithmetic functions, arithmetic of elliptic curves).
Abstract algebra is the subject area of mathematics that studies algebraic structures, such as groups, rings, fields, modules, vector spaces, and algebras. The phrase abstract algebra was coined at the turn of the 20th century to distinguish this area from what was normally referred to as algebra, the study of the rules for manipulating formulas and algebraic expressions involving unknowns and real or complex numbers, often now called elementary algebra. The distinction is rarely made in more recent writings.
Contemporary mathematics and mathematical physics make intensive use of abstract algebra; for example, theoretical physics draws on Lie algebras. Subject areas such as algebraic number theory, algebraic topology, and algebraic geometry apply algebraic methods to other areas of mathematics. Representation theory, roughly speaking, takes the 'abstract' out of 'abstract algebra', studying the concrete side of a given structure; see model theory.
Two mathematical subject areas that study the properties of algebraic structures viewed as a whole are universal algebra and category theory. Algebraic structures, together with the associated homomorphisms, form categories. Category theory is a powerful formalism for studying and comparing different algebraic structures. In mathematics and abstract algebra, group theory studies the algebraic structures known as groups.
The concept of a group is central to abstract algebra: other well-known algebraic structures, such as rings, fields, and vector spaces can all be seen as groups endowed with additional operations and axioms. Groups recur throughout mathematics, and the methods of group theory have strongly influenced many parts of algebra. Linear algebraic groups and Lie groups are two branches of group theory that have experienced tremendous advances and have become subject areas in their own right.
Various physical systems, such as crystals and the hydrogen atom, can be modelled by symmetry groups. Thus group theory and the closely related representation theory have many applications in physics and chemistry.
Order theory is a branch of mathematics that studies various kinds of binary relations that capture the intuitive notion of ordering, providing a framework for saying when one thing is "less than" or "precedes" another. This article gives a detailed introduction to the field and includes some of the most basic definitions. For a quick lookup of order-theoretic terms, there is also an order theory glossary. A list of order topics collects the various articles in the vicinity of order theory.
Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge of math? I'm currently in school getting my master's math. My thesis is: Topology and Stability of Integrable Vortex Filaments.
TROLLING HAS NEVER BEEN THIS EASY
GET IN THE ACTION WHILE IT'S HOT
Hey
I know it's fun, but I don't think there is any point giving those guys more reasons to hate "gamers." But if you really want to spam, please head over to the forums so I can read the critique being posted on the book itself.
P.s. if anyone feels like voting for me that would be great. Read the 4 chapters I put up and make up your own mind.
I can't stand his voice either, but the site's membership is probably the most openly needy and xenophobic group of people i've had the displeasure of reading from in a while.
When people can overcome the text barrier and concisely, precisely and consistently portray themselves as socially awkward, they definitely show talent. Sadly no one wants that type of talent, so go diaf (haha, gamer talk!)
On March 22 2009 14:50 Physician wrote: His has Indian ancestry but was born and bread in Ireland.
Lettuce listen to the youtube again...
"I am actually from Indian origin, I was born in India, although I've lived most of my life in Ireland"
ok ok give me a sec to edit the spelling mistake and birth thing, grammar nazi remember I am old and slow, and English is my 4th language (i.e. I learned 3 others before English)
Number theory is the branch of pure mathematics concerned with the properties of numbers in general, and integers in particular, as well as the wider classes of problems that arise from their study.
Number theory may be subdivided into several fields, according to the methods used and the type of questions investigated. (See the list of number theory topics.)
The term "arithmetic" is also used to refer to number theory. This is a somewhat older term, which is no longer as popular as it once was. Number theory used to be called the higher arithmetic, but this too is dropping out of use. Nevertheless, it still shows up in the names of mathematical fields (arithmetic functions, arithmetic of elliptic curves).
Abstract algebra is the subject area of mathematics that studies algebraic structures, such as groups, rings, fields, modules, vector spaces, and algebras. The phrase abstract algebra was coined at the turn of the 20th century to distinguish this area from what was normally referred to as algebra, the study of the rules for manipulating formulas and algebraic expressions involving unknowns and real or complex numbers, often now called elementary algebra. The distinction is rarely made in more recent writings.
Contemporary mathematics and mathematical physics make intensive use of abstract algebra; for example, theoretical physics draws on Lie algebras. Subject areas such as algebraic number theory, algebraic topology, and algebraic geometry apply algebraic methods to other areas of mathematics. Representation theory, roughly speaking, takes the 'abstract' out of 'abstract algebra', studying the concrete side of a given structure; see model theory.
Two mathematical subject areas that study the properties of algebraic structures viewed as a whole are universal algebra and category theory. Algebraic structures, together with the associated homomorphisms, form categories. Category theory is a powerful formalism for studying and comparing different algebraic structures. In mathematics and abstract algebra, group theory studies the algebraic structures known as groups.
The concept of a group is central to abstract algebra: other well-known algebraic structures, such as rings, fields, and vector spaces can all be seen as groups endowed with additional operations and axioms. Groups recur throughout mathematics, and the methods of group theory have strongly influenced many parts of algebra. Linear algebraic groups and Lie groups are two branches of group theory that have experienced tremendous advances and have become subject areas in their own right.
Various physical systems, such as crystals and the hydrogen atom, can be modelled by symmetry groups. Thus group theory and the closely related representation theory have many applications in physics and chemistry.
Order theory is a branch of mathematics that studies various kinds of binary relations that capture the intuitive notion of ordering, providing a framework for saying when one thing is "less than" or "precedes" another. This article gives a detailed introduction to the field and includes some of the most basic definitions. For a quick lookup of order-theoretic terms, there is also an order theory glossary. A list of order topics collects the various articles in the vicinity of order theory.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory)
Authonomy member:
@Mathematics
Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge of math? I'm currently in school getting my master's math. My thesis is: Topology and Stability of Integrable Vortex Filaments.
TROLLING HAS NEVER BEEN THIS EASY
GET IN THE ACTION WHILE IT'S HOT
Hey
I know it's fun, but I don't think there is any point giving those guys more reasons to hate "gamers." But if you really want to spam, please head over to the forums so I can read the critique being posted on the book itself.
P.s. if anyone feels like voting for me that would be great. Read the 4 chapters I put up and make up your own mind.
OK, I should qualify my post up there by saying that I actually don't mean to encourage people to copy/paste wikipedia articles to authonomy threads. I just think the fact that someone else has done that (and the ensuing responses) is quite hilarious, given the context.
Well, to be fair, Klazart did not break any rules by doing what he did. The rules actually support the involvement of the author`s readership. But yes, the administrators probably never anticipated anything like this.
The premise of the book is actually quite interesting, since it touches upon the sensitive issue of conflict between India and Pakistan. So it might have potential.
While I am a fan of Klazart`s commentaries and will register and read what he has posted, I am only going to vote for his book if I genuinly will consider it good. As a prospective writer, I consider it my duty to evaluate Klazart`s work based on the quality of the work itself and not on his commentating reputation.
On March 22 2009 14:57 nttea wrote: I can agree Klazart initially seems to have a horrible voice for commentating, but his other strengths makes up for it by a longshot.
I don't mind his voice at all. It's alright. People are so picky these days - not every commentator can have a manifesto7 golden voice!
For the record Klazart, I really think your commentaries suck for a number of reasons but I still give you respect and props for doing what you do. Overall it's good for SC anyways. Good Luck with this book and whatever else you do.
I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
If this is the first time you've heard his voice, have you actually listened to any of his commentaries?
His commentaries are good...why don't you listen to them Inc? He's a LOT better than Diggity and Moletrap. Besides, people always adamantly support idols on the internet. I believe you have some supporters of your own.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American, your nation stands against those very comments.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? What century are you living in?
There is a ton of Klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, his voice is not "horrible" but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all he has done is contribute and add to our community.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
On March 22 2009 14:57 nttea wrote: I can agree Klazart initially seems to have a horrible voice for commentating, but his other strengths makes up for it by a longshot.
What strengths?
Oh you mean his complete lack of knowledge of the game? Ya that totally makes up for it...
And no hating someone's voice isn't trolling. That word is WAY overused. I have just played this video for tasteless, machine, g5, nyoken etc.. they all agree.. this is terrible. If he does great commentary that a bunch of nubs like (which I heard is the case) that is good. But I can have the opinion that his voice is horrid and I have no idea how anyone can think that voice is good for commentating.
On March 22 2009 15:27 {88}iNcontroL wrote: And no hating someone's voice isn't trolling. That word is WAY overused. I have just played this video for tasteless, machine, g5, nyoken etc.. they all agree.. this is terrible. If he does great commentary that a bunch of nubs like (which I heard is the case) that is good. But I can have the opinion that his voice is horrid and I have no idea how anyone can think that voice is good for commentating.
I was more referring to the Indian and Irish bit, but ok. I can see how many people would find Klaz's voice really abrasive.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Artosis has an amazing radio voice AND is smart for the game. Tasteless is exciting and smart.. klazart is neither.. he is good for nubs but with a terrible voice. Can I not be critical of this? And I don't want to hear "critical -/= flaming" this is an internet forum.. we are gamers.. this isn't a town meeting where I need to resign my opinion to plastic bullshit.. I think his voice is garbage so I will literally say it.
One interesting note is that I know Klazart has pretty brutal carpal tunnel, so I wonder how he wrote his book / is responding to all of these forums so quick? Maybe his wife types for him, or he has a program that does speech to text.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Artosis has an amazing radio voice AND is smart for the game. Tasteless is exciting and smart.. klazart is neither.. he is good for nubs but with a terrible voice. Can I not be critical of this? And I don't want to hear "critical -/= flaming" this is an internet forum.. we are gamers.. this isn't a town meeting where I need to resign my opinion to plastic bullshit.. I think his voice is garbage so I will literally say it.
I am just curious. It seems like your main criticism of Klazart is his horrible voice rather then his lack of in dept commentary. I personally dont see whats wrong with someone's voice, but I guess its because I grew up in a culture where everyone had very distinct and heavy accents.
And no, being critical is not flaming. I dont see that connection either.
edit: I dont believe its right to assume someone is an idiot because they have an accent. Now I know INC didn't exactly say this, but it seems like INC is making that assumption (to me).. Now if INC hated him for his commentaries, thats a different story. But I have reason to believe that INC has not heard Klazart's commentaries.
Saying his has a shitty voice for commentary isn't an ad hominem attack. It's a critique of a extremely important aspect of a commentary.
Now if incontrol had said something like: Wow Klazart's commentary sucks because his mother is a whore that would be an ad hominem attack...but inc didn't say that.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Artosis has an amazing radio voice AND is smart for the game. Tasteless is exciting and smart.. klazart is neither.. he is good for nubs but with a terrible voice. Can I not be critical of this? And I don't want to hear "critical -/= flaming" this is an internet forum.. we are gamers.. this isn't a town meeting where I need to resign my opinion to plastic bullshit.. I think his voice is garbage so I will literally say it.
I am just curious. It seems like your main criticism of Klazart is his horrible voice rather then his lack of in dept commentary. I personally dont see whats wrong with someone's voice, but I guess its because I grew up in a culture where everyone had very distinct and heavy accents.
And no, being critical is not flaming. I dont see that connection either.
Oh believe me if inc had heard the content hed be flaming that too.
On March 22 2009 15:14 deathgod6 wrote: His commentaries are good...why don't you listen to them Inc? He's a LOT better than Diggity and Moletrap. Besides, people always adamantly support idols on the internet. I believe you have some supporters of your own.
On March 22 2009 15:31 JWD wrote: One interesting note is that I know Klazart has pretty brutal carpal tunnel, so I wonder how he wrote his book / is responding to all of these forums so quick? Maybe his wife types for him, or he has a program that does speech to text.
I'm hyped on adrenaline right now so I'm ignoring it, but I WILL pay for it a LOT tomorrow.
uhm..guys...we're sitting here making fun of how authonomy is filled with stuck up people, but the war brewing in this forum makes us look like Authonomy too. so..:|
Haha yeah, I agree with shavingcream that this thread should be about what an interesting experiment in internet culture this is, rather than Klazart's commentary.
This is certainly interesting. Now everyone in literature is going to be blogging about this mishap.
Klazart is going to get all the attention and criticism he wants, from all the biggest critics. By the end of the week, everyone's going to know his name.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Artosis has an amazing radio voice AND is smart for the game. Tasteless is exciting and smart.. klazart is neither.. he is good for nubs but with a terrible voice. Can I not be critical of this? And I don't want to hear "critical -/= flaming" this is an internet forum.. we are gamers.. this isn't a town meeting where I need to resign my opinion to plastic bullshit.. I think his voice is garbage so I will literally say it.
I am just curious. It seems like your main criticism of Klazart is his horrible voice rather then his lack of in dept commentary. I personally dont see whats wrong with someone's voice, but I guess its because I grew up in a culture where everyone had very distinct and heavy accents.
And no, being critical is not flaming. I dont see that connection either.
edit: I dont believe its right to assume someone is an idiot because they have an accent. Now I know INC didn't exactly say this, but it seems like INC is making that assumption (to me).. Now if INC hated him for his commentaries, thats a different story. But I have reason to believe that INC has not heard Klazart's commentaries.
well you could argue that choosing to do something that is focused entirely on talking when you dont have a good voice is rather idiotic, but thats irrelevant because as you said inc never said he was an idiot. he just pointed out that he has a bad voice and doesnt know anything about starcraft.. and yet he devotes a great deal of time to talking about starcraft.
perhaps an analogy would make it clearer its like if zulu_nation8 were to go to college or something. thats just not something stupid people do, it would make no sense. this is kind of like that.
On March 22 2009 15:39 Fontong wrote: Hmm I'm posting some semi serious things on that site and I want to see how they respond.
I just looked through a few of the threads on Klaz's book there, and I have to say that their average poster is pretty mild-mannered and intelligent (if naive about the scale of the internet). Not that I think you're heading over there to start shit, but in general I think you can expect pretty polite responses from their members. There's really not very much of this "gamer-bashing" going on.
What is fascinating is how small this episode is. I mean, Klaz's YT video encouraging people to vote for his book has 1,000 views and has resulted in about 500 people voting for him - can you imagine if a larger source of internet traffic had decided to play authonomy instead? They'd have literally shut the entire site down purely with the traffic surge.
Here's an idea (in jest): what if TL posted a book with authonomy, and voted it up to compete with Klaz's? It wouldn't be too difficult, when you consider we'd only need 1,000 votes or so to guarantee ourselves a spot on their frontpage above Klaz's book.
Basically I think this is a fascinating experiment in what happens when internet-based communities of vastly different sizes collide. Think something like...the entire population of NYC deciding to up and move to a small, previously-isolated, Pacific isle.
Incontrol, I only heard your your voice once (I think it was TL attack season 1) and I couldn't stand your voice. For a man your size your voice wasn't very manly. + Show Spoiler +
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American, your nation stands against those very comments.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? What century are you living in?
There is a ton of Klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, his voice is not "horrible" but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all he has done is contribute and add to our community.
did the whole pink dolphin thing not make it clear he wasnt being ENTIRELY serious? and its quite believable he hasnt heard klazart's voice, ive only heard it once and ive never heard most of the other sc2gg casters. not to start a shitfest (lolol ya right) but if you know anything about starcraft its kind of painful to listen to them.
On March 22 2009 15:43 Athos wrote: Incontrol, I only heard your your voice once (I think it was TL attack season 1) and I couldn't stand your voice. For a man your size your voice wasn't very manly. + Show Spoiler +
stop deriding the thread >_>
yes! this is about the hilarious mess on authonomy.com :D
On March 22 2009 15:39 Fontong wrote: Hmm I'm posting some semi serious things on that site and I want to see how they respond.
I just looked through a few of the threads on Klaz's book there, and I have to say that their average poster is pretty mild-mannered and intelligent (if naive about the scale of the internet). Not that I think you're heading over there to start shit, but in general I think you can expect pretty polite responses from their members. There's really not very much of this "gamer-bashing" going on.
What is fascinating is how small this episode is. I mean, Klaz's YT video encouraging people to vote for his book has 1,000 views and has resulted in about 500 people voting for him - can you imagine if a larger source of internet traffic had decided to play authonomy instead? They'd have literally shut the entire site down purely with the traffic surge.
Here's an idea (in jest): what if TL posted a book with authonomy, and voted it up to compete with Klaz's? It wouldn't be too difficult, when you consider we'd only need 1,000 votes or so to guarantee ourselves a spot on their frontpage above Klaz's book.
Basically I think this is a fascinating experiment in what happens when internet-based communities of vastly different sizes collide. Think something like...the entire population of NYC deciding to up and move to a small, previously-isolated, Pacific isle.
hey klazart maybe you should stop responding on the forums because its not really doing anything because they're not going to change their mind any time soon. Also, you're just feeding the fire
On March 22 2009 15:39 Fontong wrote: Hmm I'm posting some semi serious things on that site and I want to see how they respond.
I just looked through a few of the threads on Klaz's book there, and I have to say that their average poster is pretty mild-mannered and intelligent (if naive about the scale of the internet). Not that I think you're heading over there to start shit, but in general I think you can expect pretty polite responses from their members. There's really not very much of this "gamer-bashing" going on.
What is fascinating is how small this episode is. I mean, Klaz's YT video encouraging people to vote for his book has 1,000 views and has resulted in about 500 people voting for him - can you imagine if a larger source of internet traffic had decided to play authonomy instead? They'd have literally shut the entire site down purely with the traffic surge.
Here's an idea (in jest): what if TL posted a book with authonomy, and voted it up to compete with Klaz's? It wouldn't be too difficult, when you consider we'd only need 1,000 votes or so to guarantee ourselves a spot on their frontpage above Klaz's book.
Basically I think this is a fascinating experiment in what happens when internet-based communities of vastly different sizes collide. Think something like...the entire population of NYC deciding to up and move to a small, previously-isolated, Pacific isle.
I wonder if it would be possible to turn authonomy into an SC fansite by force? When you think about it...Klazart-inspired voters probably constitute the majority of their member base at the moment. What if people just started posting SC strategy threads in their main forum? Oh god...
On March 22 2009 15:43 Athos wrote: Incontrol, I only heard your your voice once (I think it was TL attack season 1) and I couldn't stand your voice. For a man your size your voice wasn't very manly. + Show Spoiler +
stop deriding the thread >_>
So I probably shouldn't go into commentating? Well at least that is your opinion right? I'm of the opinion my voice is fine and on TL.attack I wasn't able to talk much because my mic sucked but if you watch my show ^_^ you can hear my voice and judge for yourself.
to further derail this thread, Klazart was the one who got me into Starcraft in the first place and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. You may not like his voice, but his commentaries are what got me interested in SC and go to into TL. I would have never known about TL without him
OH MY GOD KLAZART IS THE ORIGIN OF ALL THINGS COOL
ahh ... gotta like some forum flames
"So what are we saying 2 or 3's ok but 500 is ridiculous?
This is actually a great plot. In 2 or 3 hours, Klazart will have boosted his backers TSRs so high, they will rule the site - they will choose the ed's desk.."
lol, it was nice to know about this site tho, im planning on writing as well, wanna gimme some tips klaz ?
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
you don't like his voice so he has he has no business commentating on the level he does?.
give me a break O_O it's youtube, it's for free and it benefits everyone in the community if his voice was so "terrible" people wouldn't listen
On March 22 2009 15:45 IdrA wrote: did the whole pink dolphin thing not make it clear he wasnt being ENTIRELY serious?
There is just so much one can hide behind the facade of jest.
but I agree, maybe we should not wonder off in our own squabbles just that it struck me wrong that inc who has no qualms when asking for community support dishes out so much of his own "opinion" on some one who really only has been doing us good out there
On March 22 2009 15:43 Athos wrote: Incontrol, I only heard your your voice once (I think it was TL attack season 1) and I couldn't stand your voice. For a man your size your voice wasn't very manly. + Show Spoiler +
stop deriding the thread >_>
So I probably shouldn't go into commentating? Well at least that is your opinion right? I'm of the opinion my voice is fine and on TL.attack I wasn't able to talk much because my mic sucked but if you watch my show ^_^ you can hear my voice and judge for yourself.
If people want to grate their ears, let them. Who cares?
On March 22 2009 15:39 Fontong wrote: Hmm I'm posting some semi serious things on that site and I want to see how they respond.
I just looked through a few of the threads on Klaz's book there, and I have to say that their average poster is pretty mild-mannered and intelligent (if naive about the scale of the internet). Not that I think you're heading over there to start shit, but in general I think you can expect pretty polite responses from their members. There's really not very much of this "gamer-bashing" going on.
What is fascinating is how small this episode is. I mean, Klaz's YT video encouraging people to vote for his book has 1,000 views and has resulted in about 500 people voting for him - can you imagine if a larger source of internet traffic had decided to play authonomy instead? They'd have literally shut the entire site down purely with the traffic surge.
Here's an idea (in jest): what if TL posted a book with authonomy, and voted it up to compete with Klaz's? It wouldn't be too difficult, when you consider we'd only need 1,000 votes or so to guarantee ourselves a spot on their frontpage above Klaz's book.
Basically I think this is a fascinating experiment in what happens when internet-based communities of vastly different sizes collide. Think something like...the entire population of NYC deciding to up and move to a small, previously-isolated, Pacific isle.
I wonder if it would be possible to turn authonomy into an SC fansite by force? When you think about it...Klazart-inspired voters probably constitute the majority of their member base at the moment. What if people just started posting SC strategy threads in their main forum? Oh god...
What if we started posting SC threads and applied to be an Official Blizzard fansite omfg.
can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
I'm curious as to the ranking system they use. Right now klazart has more than 4 times the backers than the top ranked book, but is only ranked 28. If they use the sum of total time registered of the backers, then klazart will be owning the system soon. On the other hand, if it's something like a measure of activity of the voters, then he might not be top 5.
edit:Congrats klazart, it looks like indeed you are owning the system. I could have sworn that before this post I saw it was at 31 or so, but I wasn't sure. As of this edit it's already jumped to 26.
Obviously a commentator like klazart has attracted enough of a fan base that he can rightly feel he is one of the best at what he does.
He is not tasteless or artosis or chill. He does not consistently provide correct strategical insight. He is not the most dedicated or passionate Starcraft player or fan.
However, he has an unrivaled ability to convey passion and enthusiasm for Starcraft. This is the kind of talent that one would expect from a writer. Personally I became interested in Starcraft by watching him, started lurking TL.net, and went to iccup where I became C-. Now if I go back and listen to his commentaries they bother me for the same reasons they bother many other players that are as good or much better than myself. However, I continue to respect and admire klazart for inspiring me to take up the game.
I wish that he commanded a little more respect on teamliquid. I don't think he ever claimed to know very much about the game, but the amount of love he receives from his many youtube fans should convince everyone that he is a valuable part of the community.
On March 22 2009 16:03 Klaz wrote: can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
Sorry.
Back on topic
Some of these people are real idiots...
Yet this is the most fun I have ever had arguing with people who do not have advanced thinking capabilities.
well the ranking is not just based on the number of backers, but also their rating (they call it something i forgot what) i read on klazart's youtube comments that if you back a book early before it begins to rise then this rating will increase, (you will be considered a good talent spotter). So what we could do is all pick another book to back, and if everyone votes on that then the ones voting early would have the talent spotter rating increased, thus increasing klazart's book ranking. I suggest Sye Pascoe's book since he's friendly. But that might be nice or not nice to him, it could make the other members of their community dislike him.
On March 22 2009 16:03 Klaz wrote: can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
Sorry.
Back on topic
Some of these people are real idiots...
Yet this is the most fun I have ever had arguing with people who do not have advanced thinking capabilities.
Inc doesn't have have advanced thinking capablities? How so?
On March 22 2009 16:03 Klaz wrote: can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
I love seeing the blind defenders of klazart coming from the woodwork! I say the guy's voice is annoying and I get told MY voice is annoying (I don't commentate, who cares?) and that I am a bad american (physician ROFLFLLF).. I love it.
wait physician so because I have asked for community support in the past suddenly I have no right to say klazart has a bad voice? Where the FUCK is the correlation? What logic do you use? If you respond: please respond with one of your self-made axioms. I love for those.
On March 22 2009 16:03 Klaz wrote: can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
Sorry.
Back on topic
Some of these people are real idiots...
Yet this is the most fun I have ever had arguing with people who do not have advanced thinking capabilities.
Inc doesn't have have advanced thinking capablities? How so?
Define them?
Hm, I dont recall refering to INc in that post. In fact, I do think INC is quite intelligent.
When I said people do not have advanced thinking capabilities, I was refering to posts such as this,
On March 22 2009 14:29 lauralascarsowrote: Ha, ha, ha. I knew you were behind this, Sye, one way or another.
So, Gamers, huh? What exactly is that? Guys who have manga porn all over their walls, joysticks for thumbs. what?
On March 22 2009 16:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I love seeing the blind defenders of klazart coming from the woodwork! I say the guy's voice is annoying and I get told MY voice is annoying (I don't commentate, who cares?) and that I am a bad american (physician ROFLFLLF).. I love it.
On March 22 2009 16:10 Muirhead wrote: Obviously a commentator like klazart has attracted enough of a fan base that he can rightly feel he is one of the best at what he does.
He is not tasteless or artosis or chill. He does not consistently provide correct strategical insight. He is not the most dedicated or passionate Starcraft player or fan.
However, he has an unrivaled ability to convey passion and enthusiasm for Starcraft. This is the kind of talent that one would expect from a writer. Personally I became interested in Starcraft by watching him, started lurking TL.net, and went to iccup where I became C-. Now if I go back and listen to his commentaries they bother me for the same reasons they bother many other players that are as good or much better than myself. However, I continue to respect and admire klazart for inspiring me to take up the game.
I wish that he commanded a little more respect on teamliquid. I don't think he ever claimed to know very much about the game, but the amount of love he receives from his many youtube fans should convince everyone that he is a valuable part of the community.
Same story for me. I forgot exactly how I got interested in SC again, but I almost gave up on it because I could barely understand half the things said on TL and just had way too little knowledge of the game to understand why they were doing what they did.
I still watch the occasional commentary from moletrap or diggity if they cast something like the ESL or yankee league even though I've sort of outgrew them. The original guys from SC2GG get so much shit around here but I'm glad they were around, or else I probably wouldn't be watching SC today.
On topic, it's funny as hell to see a forum full of aspiring writers acting just like any other forum on the internet.
On March 22 2009 16:03 Klaz wrote: can this please not turn into a discussion of my commentaries? (again). Honestly, those who like it like it and those who don't don't and I'm fine with that.
I think the whole on-topic discussion was a lot more promising and fun.
Sorry.
Back on topic
Some of these people are real idiots...
Yet this is the most fun I have ever had arguing with people who do not have advanced thinking capabilities.
Inc doesn't have have advanced thinking capablities? How so?
Define them?
Hm, I dont recall refering to INc in that post. In fact, I do think INC is quite intelligent.
When I said people do not have advanced thinking capabilities, I was refering to posts such as this,
From the Authonomy FAQ: Why doesn’t a book’s rank correspond to the number of bookshelves it’s on?
... Finally, the contribution to a book’s overall rank provided by of each bookshelf recommendation will vary depending on the talent spotter ranking of the bookshelf owner: The support of higher ranked talent spotters counts for more than lower ranked ones.
How does authonomy calculate my talent-spotter rank?
Every time you place a book on your bookshelf, you start to share in the success of that manuscript. As that book becomes more popular across the site, your reputation as a trend-spotter will rise accordingly
The earlier you back a great discovery, the more you have to gain. If you’re the first person to recommend a hot new script, you’ll gain more from its success than anyone else. Conversely, if you back books that are already popular, you’ll find your reputation might not rise as quickly as you’d like.
So the book was ranking up not because of increasing total registered time, but because the book ranking up itself was increasing the talent-spotter rank of its voters-- especially its early voters.
I don't think it was the youtube thingy that got him the votes. Only about 200 people have watched his video (and many of them are probably Authonomy people). He has more than twice that number of shelves, so the suppport is coming from elsewhere.
I actually like Klazart alot. He was pretty much the driving force of me getting into the game about 2 years ago, so I'm very thankful for that.
Obviously as I got better his commentaries were more jarring to watch due to the mistakes/lack of insight, but they really are very entertaining when you're a noob - or tired and just want to watch a game and switch off.
The book is actually pretty good to. Needs editing and its a little stilted in places, but is generally well written and structured.
This site on the other hand...So basically when I finish my book, if I get my family, TL and everyone I know on facebook to back it I can go to number 1 on this website...cause as of right now the video only has about 2k views, which would mean probably 1kish backers. So it would seem that the site, if it actually is significant, is so open to abuse its not even funny, since some facebook lurker could bump themselves right up without even thinking about it.
Looks to me like we're going to see some new rules and regulations in future :/
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
iNcontrol what do you mean by Tone? you need to clarify it.
Definiion: Tone (linguistics): the use of pitch in language to distinguish words
somehow you have to provide fact that shows Klaz's terrible abililty to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.(quote him on places where his pitch prevent him from distinguish words)
if what you say is true, then it means you can't distinguish Klaz's words because of Klaz's tone, hence, you won't be able to understand Klaz's at all. which also means it would be very very easy for you to provide many cases of when you think Klaz failed to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.
and then from that point on your argument is solid, if people can't understand what the commentator is saying, then the commentator has failed. If you can't provide evidences to back up your claim about Klaz's tone being terrible then your argument does not stand.
Which leave you only 1 argument, which is Klaz's lacking in indepth game knowledge, which i agree with you.
On March 22 2009 16:42 Piy wrote: I actually like Klazart alot. He was pretty much the driving force of me getting into the game about 2 years ago, so I'm very thankful for that.
Obviously as I got better his commentaries were more jarring to watch due to the mistakes/lack of insight, but they really are very entertaining when you're a noob - or tired and just want to watch a game and switch off.
The book is actually pretty good to. Needs editing and its a little stilted in places, but is generally well written and structured.
This site on the other hand...So basically when I finish my book, if I get my family, TL and everyone I know on facebook to back it I can go to number 1 on this website...cause as of right now the video only has about 2k views, which would mean probably 1kish backers. So it would seem that the site, if it actually is significant, is so open to abuse its not even funny, since some facebook lurker could bump themselves right up without even thinking about it.
Looks to me like we're going to see some new rules and regulations in future :/
This is a great post.
He is wonderful for nubs from what I understand. And the voice thing apparently is a minor issue. He obviously isn't struggling for fans. So getting all pissy and calling me unamerican and other shit is irrelevent. He is in the public eye as a commentator, he can take criticism.
On March 22 2009 16:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote: wait physician so because I have asked for community support in the past suddenly I have no right to say klazart has a bad voice? Where the FUCK is the correlation? What logic do you use? If you respond: please respond with one of your self-made axioms. I love for those.
- bah u don't need mine, I've seen ur own axioms, they are better - go use ur skills at authonomy geoff, they have not seen the likes of u ever, give 'em a taste of Inc forum finesse, make and op there, it be interesting to see what they say when a tv personality/gamer posts in their forums
for the record, I am a kaz and inc, heck even an idra fan <3 they all have one thing in common : ) starcraft4life : ) -
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
iNcontrol what do you mean by Tone? you need to clarify it.
Definiion: Tone (linguistics): the use of pitch in language to distinguish words
somehow you have to provide fact that shows Klaz's terrible abililty to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.(quote him on places where his pitch prevent him from distinguish words)
if what you say is true, then it means you can't distinguish Klaz's words because of Klaz's tone, hence, you won't be able to understand Klaz's at all. which also means it would be very very easy for you to provide many cases of when you think Klaz failed to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.
and then from that point on your argument is solid, if people can't understand what the commentator is saying, then the commentator has failed. If you can't provide evidences to back up your claim about Klaz's tone being terrible then your argument does not stand.
Which leave you only 1 argument, which is Klaz's lacking in indepth game knowledge, which i agree with you.
K argument debunked you proved I was wrong about having the opinion that klaz's voice is bad. Gg
I'd suggest stopping arguing to read the site. It's pure comedy gold. An example:
recon
the best character in StarCraft is the ghost.
You claim to have watched this site for a few days to get to know how it works.
You should send in the ghost for a little longer. Turtle not zerg.
You may have won the game. But if you want to play again, you've gotta find some friends and so far, it's not your playing that matters, but the way you play.
We've been leveling up for months and you using an exploit isn't going to work.
I have a feeling this book will overtake Klazart's soon:
Book Review:
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
On March 22 2009 16:12 nttea wrote: well the ranking is not just based on the number of backers, but also their rating (they call it something i forgot what) i read on klazart's youtube comments that if you back a book early before it begins to rise then this rating will increase, (you will be considered a good talent spotter). So what we could do is all pick another book to back, and if everyone votes on that then the ones voting early would have the talent spotter rating increased, thus increasing klazart's book ranking. I suggest Sye Pascoe's book since he's friendly. But that might be nice or not nice to him, it could make the other members of their community dislike him.
I think it's funny that these people are like 40-50 years old yet they're calling him nigger/paki and have improper grammar/spelling. They're all pretty butthurt about some stupid points too.
On March 22 2009 16:56 guga31bb wrote: I'd suggest stopping arguing to read the site. It's pure comedy gold. An example:
recon
the best character in StarCraft is the ghost.
You claim to have watched this site for a few days to get to know how it works.
You should send in the ghost for a little longer. Turtle not zerg.
You may have won the game. But if you want to play again, you've gotta find some friends and so far, it's not your playing that matters, but the way you play.
We've been leveling up for months and you using an exploit isn't going to work.
Hey, at least that one guy's actually joking. His other posts are pretty good. Apparently he worked at some game company or something, so he's not completely clueless in this matter.
didn't plan on posting on this forum to avoid what is going on right now, but i feel the need to just state: Ive been waiting for Klaz's book to come out since he first mentioned it about a year ago. Klaz's commentaries are the best in the english speaking world. If his knowledge and passion for starcraft is equaled in his writing its bound to be gold. I can understand everyone's frustration on the website slowing down and these stats of sorts being messed, but i have to say just be happy he didn't make a post on TL.net (that i've seen) or it would be 2-3 times the number he got just off YT. Cheers all.
Attracting external readership can really boost your visibility on the site. So if you already have champions from outside the authonomy community – whether that’s family, friends, colleagues or visitors to your blog, facebook profile or other website, you might also encourage them to join the site and get involved. If they can prove their credentials to the community by building their talent spotter rank, then they'll be in a position to be noticed and in turn help you raise the profile of your book.
On March 22 2009 15:39 Fontong wrote: Hmm I'm posting some semi serious things on that site and I want to see how they respond.
I just looked through a few of the threads on Klaz's book there, and I have to say that their average poster is pretty mild-mannered and intelligent (if naive about the scale of the internet). Not that I think you're heading over there to start shit, but in general I think you can expect pretty polite responses from their members. There's really not very much of this "gamer-bashing" going on.
What is fascinating is how small this episode is. I mean, Klaz's YT video encouraging people to vote for his book has 1,000 views and has resulted in about 500 people voting for him - can you imagine if a larger source of internet traffic had decided to play authonomy instead? They'd have literally shut the entire site down purely with the traffic surge.
Here's an idea (in jest): what if TL posted a book with authonomy, and voted it up to compete with Klaz's? It wouldn't be too difficult, when you consider we'd only need 1,000 votes or so to guarantee ourselves a spot on their frontpage above Klaz's book.
Basically I think this is a fascinating experiment in what happens when internet-based communities of vastly different sizes collide. Think something like...the entire population of NYC deciding to up and move to a small, previously-isolated, Pacific isle.
On March 22 2009 14:35 JWD wrote: hahaha this is great...did you read the comments on his book? It looks like a stream of his fans from YouTube fighting with old members of the site, who are deriding them for supporting his book without having read it. Do they know how the internets work?
The funniest part is that it looks like someone with the username Mathematics has spammed up the entire comment thread by copy/pasting entire math articles from Wikipedia - and people are taking him seriously!!
This is amazing - it's like a clash of "forum culture" with people who are totally unaware of its existence.
There are tons of disparaging comments about gamers in the comment thread - really sad stuff in there. Even though Klaz is pretty unpopular amongst staff at TL, I think we should support his book because
a) this is hilarious. b) anyone who categorically insults gamers deserves to pranked, at the very least.
I think klaz is more popular than it looks on TL. The haters just speak out more. I for one would not have gotten into SC at all as much without him. He opened the door for me, and as far as I can tell for hundreds of others as well. I rarely watch his videos anymore, but I still greatly appreciate the work that he has done and continues to do. His lack of knowledge really isn't a big deal because those who know better or who want to know better will just look elsewhere.
I definitely support Klazart and wish him the best!
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
I hate to be a sour stick, but I'd personally rather not try to screw up their site. Voting for Klazart's book is one thing. He genuinely put a lot of time into it and is using their site to try to get feedback on it. I suppose what he's doing is unorthodox/a bit against the spirit of it, but it's a far cry from making a bunch of books about BW and then trying to vote them up.
As a note, I didn't vote for Klazart's book. If I have some time this week I'll read it, and if I think it's good enough I'll register and vote for it.
fred_limbert is racist trash though, and would have been banned on TL for sure for what he said. I hope he is banned from their site.
On March 22 2009 17:01 Hot_Bid wrote: I have a feeling this book will overtake Klazart's soon:
Book Review:
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
There is, in my opinion, some extreme immaturity going on in those forums, on both sides. Klazart used his own interpretation of their FAQ to promote his own book, and the Authonomy regulars for the most part violently sought to reject him and his interpretation. What has emerged seems akin to the Digg power users issue; as Authonomy seems fairly small and vulnerable, Klazart supporters (who have been referred to as "minions" and "sock puppets" a fairly high number of times by a few regulars) flooded the metric, and as there was little in terms to buffer the inflow, took over the rankings -- as seen by Klazart's book now holding the top position. The regulars have basically been displaced as the power users, as well. But Klazart miscalculated. He's gained too much support, and now there are users making comments that reflect poorly on the rest of Klazart's fans, as well as the TL and gaming communities. As a genuine writer, he should not have wished this upon a writing community. Unfortunately, I think this will only harden some of the Authonomy regulars' opinions against eSports, and some of the SC community against a well-intentioned, albeit small and perhaps even xenophobic, literary community. I've only gone through one thread though so far (the one currently at 68 pages), but I think I'll glance at a few more.
On March 22 2009 17:17 Descent wrote: There is, in my opinion, some extreme immaturity going on in those forums, on both sides. Klazart used his own interpretation of their FAQ to promote his own book, and the Authonomy regulars for the most part violently sought to reject him and his interpretation. What has emerged seems akin to the Digg power users issue; as Authonomy seems fairly small and vulnerable, Klazart supporters (who have been referred to as "minions" and "sock puppets" a fairly high number of times by a few regulars) flooded the metric, and as there was little in terms to buffer the inflow, took over the rankings -- as seen by Klazart's book now holding the top position. The regulars have basically been displaced as the power users, as well. But Klazart miscalculated. He's gained too much support, and now there are users making comments that reflect poorly on the rest of Klazart's fans, as well as the TL and gaming communities. As a genuine writer, he should not have wished this upon a writing community. Unfortunately, I think this will only harden some of the Authonomy regulars' opinions against eSports, and some of the SC community against a well-intentioned, albeit small and perhaps even xenophobic, literary community. I've only gone through one thread though so far (the one currently at 68 pages), but I think I'll glance at a few more.
On March 22 2009 17:17 Descent wrote: There is, in my opinion, some extreme immaturity going on in those forums, on both sides. Klazart used his own interpretation of their FAQ to promote his own book, and the Authonomy regulars for the most part violently sought to reject him and his interpretation. What has emerged seems akin to the Digg power users issue; as Authonomy seems fairly small and vulnerable, Klazart supporters (who have been referred to as "minions" and "sock puppets" a fairly high number of times by a few regulars) flooded the metric, and as there was little in terms to buffer the inflow, took over the rankings -- as seen by Klazart's book now holding the top position. The regulars have basically been displaced as the power users, as well. But Klazart miscalculated. He's gained too much support, and now there are users making comments that reflect poorly on the rest of Klazart's fans, as well as the TL and gaming communities. As a genuine writer, he should not have wished this upon a writing community. Unfortunately, I think this will only harden some of the Authonomy regulars' opinions against eSports, and some of the SC community against a well-intentioned, albeit small and perhaps even xenophobic, literary community. I've only gone through one thread though so far (the one currently at 68 pages), but I think I'll glance at a few more.
I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
If you put that you have ADD/dyslexia in your book description or author description I think everyone will drop their attacks, because writing a book like that must be impressive.
I feel like DDOSing the site just for all the racist shit on there. That fred guy is trolling me hard, just because I know he's not actually trolling and there are still people like that.
people this conceited and small minded deserve to be force fed reality, welcome to the internet i say.
in other news, i believe Hot_Bid's book deserves it's own thread, and promotion.
normally I am all for humanity, and honestly winning da interwebz by raiding is a 4chan behavior that i would normally take no part in, BUT they are being racist small minded individuals, and as such I believe Hot_Bid needs to get into first place.
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
Guys, fred is a racist fuck, yes. However, most of the people on the site genuinely care about what they're doing. Additionally, Klazart genuinely cares about his book (although I suspect what happened was not at all what he was picturing, lol). Don't vote up garbage books, as you're going to get him disqualified. Yes, Hot_Bid's book is funny (especially his bookshelf, lol). No, don't try to vote it up to #1. Don't invade, we're not 4chan or whatever. Let's show some maturity
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
On March 22 2009 17:34 HnR)Insane wrote: Guys, fred is a racist fuck, yes. However, most of the people on the site genuinely care about what they're doing. Additionally, Klazart genuinely cares about his book (although I suspect what happened was not at all what he was picturing, lol). Don't vote up garbage books, as you're going to get him disqualified. Yes, Hot_Bid's book is funny (especially his bookshelf, lol). No, don't try to vote it up to #1. Don't invade, we're not 4chan or whatever. Let's show some maturity
Let's not belittle the efforts of Nicholas L. Shadow, who spent two full years perfecting his strategies to write his guide.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
If you put that you have ADD/dyslexia in your book description or author description I think everyone will drop their attacks, because writing a book like that must be impressive.
Bravo. Clearly this site needs more of your kind of mindless hatred.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
No...I don't think that's it. I think Klazart didn't anticipate the negative attention and ill-will he received on the Authonomy forums. That was the trigger that pushed people to mass-join their site, which lead to the toppling of their ranking system.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jesus, about what? It's some random internet forum which has nothing to do with you If you get so pissed about this stuff, what do you think about the existence of forums like stormfront? <hr>
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
No...I don't think that's it. I think Klazart didn't anticipate the negative attention and ill-will he received on the Authonomy forums. That was the trigger that pushed people to mass-join their site, which lead to the toppling of their ranking system.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
He made a strict interpretation of the rules because it favored him. Clearly the spirit of the site is not into mass voting by people who will never read the book or never check the site again for more books.
Now when someone makes a stricter interpretation he doesn't like it at all. Should have placed himself in all the other writers shoes, who don't have an army of YouTube users to vote up a book.
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
I went to bed last night not knowing what would change and came back here today to find things rearranged. There are lots of new members to whom I say 'Hello' and many older members telling them where to go.
I don't know if it's just because I never joined the dance I never thought my poetry stood any kind of chance
My novel standing even less I just came here for fun But lately even that was less as quarrels had begun.
I see the thing from both sides I've always been two faced There are those who are upset because they trusted in the race.
I hope they can relax a bit and settle down to writing I've never seen a positive result from endless fighting.
But one thing I would like to say if you're still with me at this point Is that all these new members are entitled to be in this joint.
They represent the public if we count them statistically So use them to gauge public interest seems the way to go to me.
You wouldn't go on telly and tell the watchers there That they weren't allowed (because you said) to buy your book or share?
That only folk who were your friends could take a copy home? I may be wrong but I don't care who engages with my tome.
So lets play nice and welcome these new folk with friendly open arms, They're here and we might just make new friends it can't do any harm.
banana - the - silly - and - ever -optimistic - poet
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
I think he was trying to cynically exploit his fan base to take a shortcut to the top.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
No...I don't think that's it. I think Klazart didn't anticipate the negative attention and ill-will he received on the Authonomy forums. That was the trigger that pushed people to mass-join their site, which lead to the toppling of their ranking system.
Eh, maybe so.
I think it was Klazart's hope that he would simply get a moderate boost from people who support him outside of the Authonomy community. When the Authonomy users started attacking him, supporters of Klazart used that to come to his defense, and to attack back. That's why their forums are such a mess right now, as well as why it seems Klazart regrets his involvement on that site (or so it seems to me). Also, I think Hilton's post on the Authonomy thread is essentially what will happen...
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
No...I don't think that's it. I think Klazart didn't anticipate the negative attention and ill-will he received on the Authonomy forums. That was the trigger that pushed people to mass-join their site, which lead to the toppling of their ranking system.
Eh, maybe so.
I think it was Klazart's hope that he would simply get a moderate boost from people who support him outside of the Authonomy community. When the Authonomy users started attacking him, supporters of Klazart used that to come to his defense, and to attack back. That's why their forums are such a mess right now, as well as why it seems Klazart regrets his involvement on that site (or so it seems to me). Also, I think Hilton's post on the Authonomy thread is essentially what will happen...
I'm not sure which is the "Authonomy thread", could you link/post the post in question? I saw several threads about Klazart which I looked at on their site, but the threads are getting pretty gargantuan and I don't really want to spend so much time personally looking at a bunch of people arguing about Klazart on some writing site.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
If you put that you have ADD/dyslexia in your book description or author description I think everyone will drop their attacks, because writing a book like that must be impressive.
Bravo. Clearly this site needs more of your kind of mindless hatred.
Honest advice does not deserve your hateful bashing of innocents and virgins.
On March 22 2009 17:42 HnR)Insane wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jesus, about what? It's some random internet forum which has nothing to do with you If you get so pissed about this stuff, what do you think about the existence of forums like stormfront
Don't know what stormfront is, I'm afraid to look.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
I think he was trying to cynically exploit his fan base to take a shortcut to the top.
Oh please, as if that isn't a common occurrence here? Why, just the other day Chill asked everyone here to do something similar. Granted, it was for a friend and not himself, but it's still more or less the same thing.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
No...I don't think that's it. I think Klazart didn't anticipate the negative attention and ill-will he received on the Authonomy forums. That was the trigger that pushed people to mass-join their site, which lead to the toppling of their ranking system.
Eh, maybe so.
I think it was Klazart's hope that he would simply get a moderate boost from people who support him outside of the Authonomy community. When the Authonomy users started attacking him, supporters of Klazart used that to come to his defense, and to attack back. That's why their forums are such a mess right now, as well as why it seems Klazart regrets his involvement on that site (or so it seems to me). Also, I think Hilton's post on the Authonomy thread is essentially what will happen...
I'm not sure which is the "Authonomy thread", could you link/post the post in question? I saw several threads about Klazart which I looked at on their site, but the threads are getting pretty gargantuan and I don't really want to spend so much time personally looking at a bunch of people arguing about Klazart on some writing site.
This is the thread I've gone through in its entirety -- link; the quote by user 'Hilton' is on the second to last page, page 68 of 69 right now. The first ~35 pages of the thread are essentially Klazart defending himself on his own against various members of the Authonomy community -- Klazart's arguments are all stated in those pages, I think; the rest of the thread is a flame war between the Authonomy regulars, who have by then realized to some degree that Klazart's supporters are not bots, and actual members from YouTube/TL/other sites who have stepped up to defend Klazart. Also, it should be noted that apparently no moderator action is expected on their site until Monday, so various members allude to waiting, expecting a rollback, etc.
On March 22 2009 17:42 HnR)Insane wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jesus, about what? It's some random internet forum which has nothing to do with you If you get so pissed about this stuff, what do you think about the existence of forums like stormfront
Don't know what stormfront is, I'm afraid to look.
The Stormfront White Nationalist Community is a white nationalist/pride/supremacist,[a] neo-Nazi[b] Internet forum that has been described as the Internet's first major hate site,[c] and the first and most popular racist website.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
If you put that you have ADD/dyslexia in your book description or author description I think everyone will drop their attacks, because writing a book like that must be impressive.
I think people would like you more if you weren't such a dick. I mean what a nasty, pointless thing to say.
On March 22 2009 17:42 HnR)Insane wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jesus, about what? It's some random internet forum which has nothing to do with you If you get so pissed about this stuff, what do you think about the existence of forums like stormfront
Don't know what stormfront is, I'm afraid to look.
The Stormfront White Nationalist Community is a white nationalist/pride/supremacist,[a] neo-Nazi[b] Internet forum that has been described as the Internet's first major hate site,[c] and the first and most popular racist website.
Oh god what the fuck. I don't even know how to reply to that.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
While I can believe you didn't expect it to blow up like it did, I think you knew exactly what you were doing when you appealed to your youtube fanbase.
I think he was picturing people just go, vote up his book, and his book gets reviewed by editors. I don't think he was picturing people registering and arguing, etc. I think he neglected that a lot of BW people are kinda dumb, and also quite a few people on TL dislike him (and no I am not saying that people who are dumb dislike him, nor that people who dislike him are dumb; there is no connection between the two, and some people may be both, one of the two, or neither) and would try to get him disqualified/fuck up the site.
I think he was trying to cynically exploit his fan base to take a shortcut to the top.
Oh please, as if that isn't a common occurrence here? Why, just the other day Chill asked everyone here to do something similar. Granted, it was for a friend and not himself, but it's still more or less the same thing.
Of course it does. But if it backfires here, people generally don't do the whole babe in the woods routine.
This entire contest is a freakin popularity contest, so its hilarious that so many people are getting pissed about it. This isn't about whose book is the best. This is about who can get the most votes, more or less. If this is about whose books are the best, why is it in a freakin poll format?
This entire contest is a freakin popularity contest, so its hilarious that so many people are getting pissed about it. This isn't about whose book is the best. This is about who can get the most votes, more or less. If this is about whose books are the best, why is it in a freakin poll format?
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
If you put that you have ADD/dyslexia in your book description or author description I think everyone will drop their attacks, because writing a book like that must be impressive.
I think people would like you more if you weren't such a dick. I mean what a nasty, pointless thing to say.
I think I would care more if people online liked me if they could see legitimate and not really hurtful advice as opposed to picking up their pitchforks and going troll hunting on their high horse of internet morality as they masturbate to their social standing in a virtual environment.
On March 22 2009 18:19 Megalolzz wrote: Is this any different to what Chill persuaded us all to do a week or so ago with the doritos ad?
No, it's merely because it's someone the team liquid community frowns upon.
Not really. Chill didn't pretend he was doing it so we could all see his friend's work.
but that's not what you're saying is pathetic, right? you just seem to find it more amusing as chill's post had seemingly less effect.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said anything was "pathetic." While Klazart may not have wanted what happened to happen, it was a completely foreseeable risk. If you want to mobilize a fan base, you have to be prepared to deal with the fact that some of your fans may be stupid. I'm just saying I don't buy that he was just trying to show his work to a couple of guys from youtube with that video.
On March 22 2009 18:19 Megalolzz wrote: Is this any different to what Chill persuaded us all to do a week or so ago with the doritos ad?
No, it's merely because it's someone the team liquid community frowns upon.
Not really. Chill didn't pretend he was doing it so we could all see his friend's work.
but that's not what you're saying is pathetic, right? you just seem to find it more amusing as chill's post had seemingly less effect.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said anything was "pathetic." While Klazart may not have wanted what happened to happen, it was a completely foreseeable risk. If you want to mobilize a fan base, you have to be prepared to deal with the fact that some of your fans may be stupid. I'm just saying I don't buy that he was just trying to show his work to a couple of guys from youtube with that video.
Of course he was trying to climb the rankings, that much is pretty obvious from his video. As for my pathetic remark, apologies, for that was merely a word that seemed apt considering the nuance of your reply to my first post. I was merely trying to say that it's not what he has done that has irritated many people, more who has done it. As in the individual who solely expressed his distaste for Klazart's commentaries as opposed to the ethically dubious tactics he employed to attempt to try and climb the rankings. Much love.
Klazart has done so much for the commentary scene, not to mention getting myself into starcraft (not like there's a general gain on your part for that, but I enjoy it), that I was glad to support his book when he asked to.
Though, indeed he should have reconsidered this idea, as the chaos he raised and inevitable subsequent awareness may even lead to his disqualification. (I'm saying that without actually knowing anything about the site's policies)
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
I'm pretty sure he's indian and I can understand people not liking his voice. But you have to envy his love for the game, the way he's commentating with so much heart is just amazing.
If all it takes is a few hundred people to break their site, just imagine if people like the Penny Arcade guys asked their fanbase to do something similar.
Below is a brief outline of what others are thinking. Personally, I don't give a shit. After all, Authonomy is only a catchall for Facebook wannabe's and a preemptive marketing tool for HC.
Your meteoric rise smacks of cheating, Klazart. And having a business in India, I know what your countrymen are capable of when it comes to underhand methods and believe me, when you cheat, it is always blatently. You can't help it. Rest assured, your con-artist rise is under investigation. Submitted on the 19:03:09 and updated on the 22:03:09 (three days!!!!) shows the scam was in place long before submission....Sue me.
PS:'Mass grave' unearthed in Gujarat - MPACUK :: Muslim Discussion ForumThis extremely educational documentary investigates the genocide that occured against Muslims in the Indian state of Gujarat. In this section we learn that ... forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=5162&highlight=gujarat - 62k -
Note how the name of the state of Gujarat is spelt. This is correct....NOT Gujrat as in the synopsis. "
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
On a more general level, the literal words of the FAQ quoted by Klazart may be said to legitimise his actions. But I doubt that the creators of the site ever envisioned a mini internet celebrity with thousands of fans to use the mechanism of the site to up vote his work without reading his work or any others (or if they have, to vote it up regardless of its merits). I can definitely see why some of the people are so pissed, given that their trying to get published, yet their work is being marginalised by Klazart's even without anyone reading either klazart's or theirs.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
I was unaware of the site before Klazart's video, but its the kind of thing I would be into participating. The way the site's community reacted was so hateful and closed minded that I think I'll just take a pass though.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
I'm pretty sure he's indian and I can understand people not liking his voice. But you have to envy his love for the game, the way he's commentating with so much heart is just amazing.
yeah, he commentates sc like it's the grand final of some sporting event, his bias is hilarious. you have to respect the passion.
i think the uniqueness of his voice contributes to the klazart experience
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
Watching this play out is really interesting, it's amazing how a community reacts to what they perceive as a crisis. I personally don't think it was wise of klazart to go into their forums though, walking into the flames covered in wood.
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
Watching this play out is really interesting, it's amazing how a community reacts to what they perceive as a crisis. I personally don't think it was wise of klazart to go into their forums though, walking into the flames covered in wood.
Except hes superman.
At least to theyr eyes, most people are like "ZOMGS how can he do that ? Wow my friends wont vote for me =("
On March 22 2009 15:27 {88}iNcontroL wrote: And no hating someone's voice isn't trolling. That word is WAY overused. I have just played this video for tasteless, machine, g5, nyoken etc.. they all agree.. this is terrible. If he does great commentary that a bunch of nubs like (which I heard is the case) that is good. But I can have the opinion that his voice is horrid and I have no idea how anyone can think that voice is good for commentating.
wait i didn't say he had a horrible voice, just that he doesn't have the stereotypical commentator voice when you asked me on ventrillo. don't start some war between our two fanbases lol, i do appreciate what klazart does.
Wow, just checked this out and it's pretty hilarious.
Anyway, my 2 cents on the ongoing debate about Klazart's voice. I never really found it a big deal. I mean, as long as you can understand someone clearly, what else do you actually care for?
I actually like his commentary to a certain extent, even if he has no knowledge about starcraft and is wrong often. As someone has said, he's probably the only commentator who's really enthusiastic about watching the game. It's pretty much in complete contrast with someone like Artosis, who's deadpan voice makes it sounds like an education video. I love the insight, but can't exactly get excited about.
A StarCraft wannabe commentator (wannabe because the real commentator job is only for Tasteless apparently and it's not a comparison, it's a fact, I'm not against Klazart nor I'm like *squeel* Tasteless!) using his "fans", which already sounds pretty ridiculous, to get his BOOK moved forward. This situation is pathetic and funny at the same time. Exaggeration to it's fullest.
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
Watching this play out is really interesting, it's amazing how a community reacts to what they perceive as a crisis. I personally don't think it was wise of klazart to go into their forums though, walking into the flames covered in wood.
Oh oops, I misread the comment. Anyway, I'm not amazed at their reaction at all - these folks have pretty serious hopes of getting their shit published and this site apparently is one of their few good chances.
What i think he should have done in the video was say something along the lines of "Hey, I've been writing a new book, if you have time why don't you come check it out at '...' and if you like it, shelve it!"
A vid like this would have been perfectly legitimate as it would have been impossible to draw enough attention to a run-in-the-mill book sitting at 2000+ place on its own with no starting fanbase.
I don't get what problem people have with accent as long as you can understand somebody without trouble I don't hear a problem.
As for complains they are legitimate, youtube sc commentaries have nothing to do with aim of the authonomy site. Klazart is breaking they system that was done to select book that most people liked, not one that was voted by the biggest group of friends that did not even read the book.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
I'm pretty sure he's indian and I can understand people not liking his voice. But you have to envy his love for the game, the way he's commentating with so much heart is just amazing.
yeah, he commentates sc like it's the grand final of some sporting event, his bias is hilarious. you have to respect the passion.
i think the uniqueness of his voice contributes to the klazart experience
Agreed. When I was reading the first few pages here I was like "people don't like Klazart?" I love his stuff! He's so passionate and speaks are 400WPM, it's awesome!
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
On a more general level, the literal words of the FAQ quoted by Klazart may be said to legitimise his actions. But I doubt that the creators of the site ever envisioned a mini internet celebrity with thousands of fans to use the mechanism of the site to up vote his work without reading his work or any others (or if they have, to vote it up regardless of its merits). I can definitely see why some of the people are so pissed, given that their trying to get published, yet their work is being marginalised by Klazart's even without anyone reading either klazart's or theirs.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
how can you not tell? they have a skilled observer showing absolutely everything you would need to know. you can't see the difference between a 9pool and a 12pool? how do you think live reporters do their thing here, clairvoyance?
What klazart did was exactly what the site creators hoped to achieve.
Plublishers care only about 1 thing = Sales = $$$.
They don't really care which book is better or worse, the poll is there as much as a hype meter than an actual critical review ranking of the books.
With klazarts small fanbase, he earned his right to sit ontop of the poll as his sales potential or hype far out weigh the others there.
Imagine if paris hilton decided to have a book and got her fans to hype up her book on a poll. Despite the book's unlikely chances to pick up any pulizters, the publisher would be glad the poll did its job in helping him secure the most profitable book among the list.
Watching old people on the internet is such a strange experience. Obviously what he did was marginally against the spirit of the competition, but in no ways did it actually break any rules. I don't know if these people are naive or overly sheltered, but any adult should be able to understand what went on and why it was not cheating. I suppose none of them have ever asked their friends or family to vote for their books?
I don't understand how incontrol can bash klazart while he props up people like tasteless and chill. Have you ever heard tasteless commentate solo? He has long awkward pauses with lots of uh, uh, uh. It is not fun to watch at all. Every 10 seconds its uh, uh uh. I'd rather be listening to the korean commentators even if I don't understand an ounce of korean. Chill on the other hand, is better with the stuttering, but he is not witty at all. He's plain boring.
On March 22 2009 23:34 hacpee wrote: I don't understand how incontrol can bash klazart while prop up tasteless and chill at the same time. Have you ever heard tasteless commentate solo? He has long awkward pauses with lots of uh, uh, uh. It is not fun to watch at all. Every 10 seconds, its uh, uh uh. I'd rather be listening to the korean commentators even if I don't understand an ounce of korean. Chill on the other hand, is better with the stuttering, but he is not witty at all. He's plain boring.
he was talking about voice and knowledge, not lack of stuttering. different things matter to different people.
I think you give Klazart way too much crap. He's been putting out his videos for a very long time all the while taking crap from you. But he's still putting out videos and that takes character. That said I personally don't listen to his commentaries, mainly because of technical flaws. But I see no reason to give him so much crap, because of how hard he is trying. I think that alone deserves respect.
On March 22 2009 23:34 hacpee wrote: I don't understand how incontrol can bash klazart while prop up tasteless and chill at the same time. Have you ever heard tasteless commentate solo? He has long awkward pauses with lots of uh, uh, uh. It is not fun to watch at all. Every 10 seconds, its uh, uh uh. I'd rather be listening to the korean commentators even if I don't understand an ounce of korean. Chill on the other hand, is better with the stuttering, but he is not witty at all. He's plain boring.
he was talking about voice and knowledge, not lack of stuttering. different things matter to different people.
Isn't Incontrol the douche that made the prediction that foreigners would finally reach parity with koreans in 2008? Yet the top American foreigners are still losing to B team Koreans and Chinese/European foreigners in 2009.
On March 22 2009 23:34 hacpee wrote: I don't understand how incontrol can bash klazart while he props up people like tasteless and chill. Have you ever heard tasteless commentate solo? He has long awkward pauses with lots of uh, uh, uh. It is not fun to watch at all. Every 10 seconds its uh, uh uh. I'd rather be listening to the korean commentators even if I don't understand an ounce of korean. Chill on the other hand, is better with the stuttering, but he is not witty at all. He's plain boring.
I think klazart does a fine job commentating. I've ended up not being able to listen to him (anymore) because overtime he has no upped his level of strategic knowledge, so everygame is more or less mind numbing. I don't think anybody can call tasteless boring. Chill is pretty funny and sometimes hyper aggressive, and artosis rules over men like f91 > .... liquibition.
Also geoff is pretty fricken articulate. I understand how someone with a normal demeaner who doesn't act like a huge (no pun int.) gamer can think klazart is nerdy. I mean fuck how the hell does he get so excited for a game that he has no basic knowledge .... it is baffling.
I'm sorry if you made it this far because everything after the first sentence was a troll.
On March 22 2009 23:34 hacpee wrote: I don't understand how incontrol can bash klazart while prop up tasteless and chill at the same time. Have you ever heard tasteless commentate solo? He has long awkward pauses with lots of uh, uh, uh. It is not fun to watch at all. Every 10 seconds, its uh, uh uh. I'd rather be listening to the korean commentators even if I don't understand an ounce of korean. Chill on the other hand, is better with the stuttering, but he is not witty at all. He's plain boring.
he was talking about voice and knowledge, not lack of stuttering. different things matter to different people.
Isn't Incontrol the douche that made the prediction that foreigners would finally reach parity with koreans in 2008? Yet the top American foreigners are still losing to B team Koreans and Chinese/European foreigners in 2009.
im quite impressed you managed to be wrong like 5 times in 2 sentences that might be some kind of record
Their codes should improve their rating function. The simplest solution to do that is include the duration of membership in the value of the rating. Remember when TL tried to upvote on digg? It failes among other reasons because digg's rating function is better.
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
On a more general level, the literal words of the FAQ quoted by Klazart may be said to legitimise his actions. But I doubt that the creators of the site ever envisioned a mini internet celebrity with thousands of fans to use the mechanism of the site to up vote his work without reading his work or any others (or if they have, to vote it up regardless of its merits). I can definitely see why some of the people are so pissed, given that their trying to get published, yet their work is being marginalised by Klazart's even without anyone reading either klazart's or theirs.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
how can you not tell? they have a skilled observer showing absolutely everything you would need to know. you can't see the difference between a 9pool and a 12pool? how do you think live reporters do their thing here, clairvoyance?
Unlike experienced players or watchers, I can't instantly tell how many drones there are when the pool goes up. I can roughly count how many drones there are, but it's nice to have someone tell me in English exactly what is going on. Even in the live reports different live reporters do not always agree on what happened - was it a 9 pool? overpool/gas or whatever? Was it a 4pool or a 5pool? And presumably these live reporters have experience playing and watching the game. They roughly know the build timings. They understand what is going on. They know what to look out for.
Admittedly of course the difference in the examples i raised is smaller. My point still holds. Ok, so there's a skilled observer. He's showing everything YOU need to know. I need to be shown and told more to understand what is going on. Sometimes the observer clicks on a morphing building, and moves away in an instant. So YOU think to yourself - ooh spire coming right up. I'M thinking - what's that morphing building?
I like to compare Klaz and his commentaries to orange juice. It gives you the motivation to wake up in the morning. But when you settle down for the evening its best enjoyed when its mixed with a healthy dose of vodka. Klaz commentaries = Orange juice.
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
On a more general level, the literal words of the FAQ quoted by Klazart may be said to legitimise his actions. But I doubt that the creators of the site ever envisioned a mini internet celebrity with thousands of fans to use the mechanism of the site to up vote his work without reading his work or any others (or if they have, to vote it up regardless of its merits). I can definitely see why some of the people are so pissed, given that their trying to get published, yet their work is being marginalised by Klazart's even without anyone reading either klazart's or theirs.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
how can you not tell? they have a skilled observer showing absolutely everything you would need to know. you can't see the difference between a 9pool and a 12pool? how do you think live reporters do their thing here, clairvoyance?
Unlike experienced players or watchers, I can't instantly tell how many drones there are when the pool goes up. I can roughly count how many drones there are, but it's nice to have someone tell me in English exactly what is going on. Even in the live reports different live reporters do not always agree on what happened - was it a 9 pool? overpool/gas or whatever? Was it a 4pool or a 5pool? And presumably these live reporters have experience playing and watching the game. They roughly know the build timings. They understand what is going on. They know what to look out for.
Admittedly of course the difference in the examples i raised is smaller. My point still holds. Ok, so there's a skilled observer. He's showing everything YOU need to know. I need to be shown and told more to understand what is going on. Sometimes the observer clicks on a morphing building, and moves away in an instant. So YOU think to yourself - ooh spire coming right up. I'M thinking - what's that morphing building?
yeah, but all that stuff is really really basic and will be picked up on if you watch like five vods
different worlds i guess, i understand the necessity of this information for people who are brand spanking new to pro sc, i just dont understand how someone can watch enough to become a fan and not start to pick up on the strategic missteps in klazart's commentary
lastly, Gilbert Gottfried (the person incontrol is referring to) is a comedian and was the voice of Iago in the Aladdin movies and is not at all a paid professional commentator
ugh... i dont agree with what klazart's doing... and i really agree with what incontrol is saying, his voice is irritating, hes a commentator--how are the majority of you arguing this point & not putting two and two together?--so hes missing two out of three fundamental things needed for commentary (1- voice 2- passion 3- technical, almost pro, knowledge/understanding). i love watching starcraft commentary and i dont think any one person rules the scene, everyone is lacking, no one but Tasteless(?) is getting paid for this like a John Madden or Rick Jeanneret but even still Tasteless has a lot of dead air and broadcasting mistakes that a fucking rookie like me noticed.
however with that being the case i like and can enjoy (I MUST BE A NUB) a Klazart commentary every once in a blue moon because hes engaging and a bit more exciting than his fellows, probably why hes regarded as one of the best!? i don't speak/understand korean but the majority of starleague commentators seem to be utterly passionate and engaged when they're doing the matches live (PLAGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU). shit, why doesn't someone enlighten me as to what a typical proleague match is being spoken between the commentators besides WHAT THEY SEE ON SCREEN. i get the feeling they do a little predicting but I can't imagine too much(professional commentators in EVERY sport don't do that, its a video game thing).
also, moletrap i don't watch because his voice annoys me... diggity and cholera i watch because they have more presence and aren't annoying... rise for the same reasons, he doesn't seem attached to the nerd-dom that is online video gaming... who else... anyway the point is they all have flaws in technical knowledge but how amazing is it that that doesn't stop me from watching a match, i am well qualified to draw my own predictions. hope that clears it up
the korean commentators are actually surprisingly in-depth (also wrong sometimes, but more for the sake of entertainment rather than lack of intuition), check out some subtitled vods on youtube
mmmmmmmmmm I would not link this none sense to 4chan. Think i remember someone trying to do that a while ago and alot of 4chan people got pissed off and hacked the hell out of the person asking 4chan to crash some website.
Flame wars have begun and unfortunately I know who they are, for I am one of them. Gamers.
Do not engage. Do not rant and rave. For you will lose.
Stay reasonable and keep a cool head. Remember that you are writers and that your knowledge of technique, style and genre is your strength. Not flame wars.
I repeat. Do not engage
Keep your heads down, continue doing what you enjoy, reading, commenting and talking about writing on the forums. Or just playing around for fun.
If you take the fight to us then you will lose, for gamers eat forums for breakfast. We spend our days forming elite teams of special forces and talk tactics while you are sleeping. Flame wars are our meat and drink. You cannot win.
And that is not the purpose of this site.
This site is designed as a virtual slushpile, not a popularity contest. And from time to time an exploit is found.
Again. Exploits are a light snack to us.
Do not engage with gamers. You will lose.
jajaja
I think comments like these posted really undermine klazart's cause. They just come across as plain silly. And unfortunately for the folks at Authonomy, the guy is right. You can't win a flame war against these guys.
On a more general level, the literal words of the FAQ quoted by Klazart may be said to legitimise his actions. But I doubt that the creators of the site ever envisioned a mini internet celebrity with thousands of fans to use the mechanism of the site to up vote his work without reading his work or any others (or if they have, to vote it up regardless of its merits). I can definitely see why some of the people are so pissed, given that their trying to get published, yet their work is being marginalised by Klazart's even without anyone reading either klazart's or theirs.
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
how can you not tell? they have a skilled observer showing absolutely everything you would need to know. you can't see the difference between a 9pool and a 12pool? how do you think live reporters do their thing here, clairvoyance?
Unlike experienced players or watchers, I can't instantly tell how many drones there are when the pool goes up. I can roughly count how many drones there are, but it's nice to have someone tell me in English exactly what is going on. Even in the live reports different live reporters do not always agree on what happened - was it a 9 pool? overpool/gas or whatever? Was it a 4pool or a 5pool? And presumably these live reporters have experience playing and watching the game. They roughly know the build timings. They understand what is going on. They know what to look out for.
Admittedly of course the difference in the examples i raised is smaller. My point still holds. Ok, so there's a skilled observer. He's showing everything YOU need to know. I need to be shown and told more to understand what is going on. Sometimes the observer clicks on a morphing building, and moves away in an instant. So YOU think to yourself - ooh spire coming right up. I'M thinking - what's that morphing building?
yeah, but all that stuff is really really basic and will be picked up on if you watch like five vods
different worlds i guess, i understand the necessity of this information for people who are brand spanking new to pro sc, i just dont understand how someone can watch enough to become a fan and not start to pick up on the strategic missteps in klazart's commentary
lastly, Gilbert Gottfried (the person incontrol is referring to) is a comedian and was the voice of Iago in the Aladdin movies and is not at all a paid professional commentator
Oh, assumed Gilbert Gottfried was paid - my bad. sympathies to Inc, then.
It's nice to have someone pointing out the basic stuff happening on screen. The action can be pretty fast sometimes. It's like having a soccer commentator pointing out who the hell has the ball and who's he passing it too - yes, I can see for myself usually, but sometimes I'm not sure. Ok, don't want to belabour the point. Enough from me on this.
On March 23 2009 01:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the korean commentators are actually surprisingly in-depth (also wrong sometimes, but more for the sake of entertainment rather than lack of intuition), check out some subtitled vods on youtube
those subtitled VODs are pure class but they are few and far between. FCUK are u listening? moar plz?
I agree that Klazarts strategic insights can be misleading or sometimes completely wrong, he still deserves respect and recognition for his exports in the E-Sports community. How did you get into Starcraft progaming? I know how I did. There was a day where I was incredibly bored, and typed "Starcraft Pro" into YouTube. I ended up with a Klazart commentary. I was so enthralled by it that I watched about 10 VODs that day. And now, I'm a regular follower of progaming and an avid Starcraft player.
I'm sure many people out there started watching Progamers in similar fashions as I did. Although Klazart, Cholera, and the plethora of other English commentators out there lack the knowledge and strategic insight as a skilled player such as InControl, they integrate thousands of clueless gamers into Broodwar. Although I don't enjoy English commentaries nearly as much as I once did, I still have respect for the people who take the time and effort out of their busy lives to welcome countless strangers into Broodwar. I can't see why that is a bad thing, and all of the poeple flaming Klaz are as idiotic as their flames.
Hi all, as the site i usually spend a lot of time on, is not functioning, because some of you think it would be fun to crash it, thought i'd come here instead. I can only speak for myself, but Authonomy is a great site for readers and writers alike. I am sure like the forums and sites you peeps spend time on, you develop a sense of community and build relationships with others. Authonomy is no different. I personally welcome new members who have come to read and write, but the tone of some of these posts suggests, some of you are merely virtual vandals, intent on ruining something for others. Please show the peeps on authonomy that the vast majority of you signed up to support a writer (who has written a compelling book), and that you will also check out some other work whilst you are there. It doesn't matter on which forums you descend, provoking peeps will always get a negative response. ju-ju
On March 22 2009 23:33 Jibba wrote: Watching old people on the internet is such a strange experience. Obviously what he did was marginally against the spirit of the competition, but in no ways did it actually break any rules. I don't know if these people are naive or overly sheltered, but any adult should be able to understand what went on and why it was not cheating. I suppose none of them have ever asked their friends or family to vote for their books?
And less of the old! I prefer yummy-mummy, thank you.
On March 23 2009 02:20 Hot_Bid wrote: is authonomy.com down now?
I feel kind of bad for registering and bookshelving the shadow rush now, I am an accomplice in the assassination of a webpage.
it'll come back up again, i think HC has invested to much money and publicity for it to stay down. How come this thread has gone so quiet? Authonomy's broken, so you'll can't be there.
On March 22 2009 16:10 Muirhead wrote: Obviously a commentator like klazart has attracted enough of a fan base that he can rightly feel he is one of the best at what he does.
He is not tasteless or artosis or chill. He does not consistently provide correct strategical insight. He is not the most dedicated or passionate Starcraft player or fan.
However, he has an unrivaled ability to convey passion and enthusiasm for Starcraft. This is the kind of talent that one would expect from a writer. Personally I became interested in Starcraft by watching him, started lurking TL.net, and went to iccup where I became C-. Now if I go back and listen to his commentaries they bother me for the same reasons they bother many other players that are as good or much better than myself. However, I continue to respect and admire klazart for inspiring me to take up the game.
I wish that he commanded a little more respect on teamliquid. I don't think he ever claimed to know very much about the game, but the amount of love he receives from his many youtube fans should convince everyone that he is a valuable part of the community.
I got to TL due to him as well. Therefore it hurts to see fellow TL-ers bash on him.
people can stop saying klaz is great for nubs.. we get it. He has that demographic locked down. Bam, it is his.. now move on. People criticize his lack of knowledge because that is something that is a stand-alone statement. It isn't like his lack of knowledge is uniquely good. If he knew more and had the same passion he'd only do better for those nubs that join the community because of his casting.
I think we should just leave the website alone for a couple of days. There is nothing to be gained from breaking it or antagonising the regulars, many of whom are honest, decent people.
They clearly need a server upgrade, AND forum mods.
Although it was very stupid of "them" to start flaming gamers nonsensically. A lot of them have had a very rude awakening to the reality of 2009 I suspect.
On March 23 2009 02:47 Klaz wrote: I think we should just leave the website alone for a couple of days. There is nothing to be gained from breaking it or antagonising the regulars, many of whom are honest, decent people.
They clearly need a server upgrade, AND forum mods.
And a free copy of the shadow rush to smooth things over.
On March 23 2009 02:32 ju-ju wrote: it'll come back up again, i think HC has invested to much money and publicity for it to stay down. How come this thread has gone so quiet? Authonomy's broken, so you'll can't be there.
Of course, this sort of server overload is only temporary. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at by saying, "so you will can not be there", unless you're trying to ignore grammar conventions and assassinate the English language... It's readily apparent the majority of you on the site are not English teachers and it annoys me to no end that so many of those same people who claim to be authors are such abysmal writers.
On March 23 2009 02:47 Klaz wrote: I think we should just leave the website alone for a couple of days. There is nothing to be gained from breaking it or antagonising the regulars, many of whom are honest, decent people.
They clearly need a server upgrade, AND forum mods.
And a free copy of the shadow rush to smooth things over.
Since I'm certain lastshadow is reading this right now, I'd like to say:
On March 23 2009 02:43 ju-ju wrote: Am i invisible?
no we see you but im not sure what you want to talk about or are asking about? You feel like some kind of wierd counter troll thats doing it for the first time.
On March 23 2009 02:49 Klaz wrote: Although it was very stupid of "them" to start flaming gamers nonsensically. A lot of them have had a very rude awakening to the reality of 2009 I suspect.
Were they talking shit about Savior? I didn't realize that they were FBH fans...
sorry guys, gotta go (dinner) - thanks for acknowledging me - and no not all of the authonomy community were bad mouthing gamers, just a few, like the few on here who think it is good sport to trash a site that many take seriously. I am sure the majority of you are decent as are the majority over on authonomy - hope we can all get along, and of you serious about finding some great reads or want some advice on your writing, then Autho is great site. Take care. ju-ju
Wow just read the 13 pages and all I can say is it was a fun ride. Klaz is awesome, breaking the site is epic, flaming and madness is
Wish I could read Klaz's book but the site is still down at the moment. Based off the video it looked like they had some pretty low bandwidth to begin with as things were laggy enough with klaz browsing around before he released his hoards... haha.
Hot_Bid has once again established forum dominance imo. The book and description were hilarious, but I thought it was over the top messing with the site. Then, I saw this:
Hay lets not give out the TL.net name (seems like its coming back to this community with these new users) when doing 4chan-esque things of [image] altering magnitude yeh?
On March 23 2009 03:43 inkycreative wrote: I'm a stranger to your site. So please be kind!
Not all of us on authonomy are f**kers. Just a little rattled by someone playing by his own rules.
As a marketer for computer games I admire what you have done. Jeez my clients would kill to have the viral power you have shown. But it has crashed the site... and in the long run probably wont do you much good.
At least, IMHO, not as much good as just coming on the site and playing the game like everyone else. You may get an HC crit. And good on ya. But you miss out on the 100s of crits you would have also got from some pretty fantastic writers. My book has only been on the site for a few weeks and is already vastly superior than it was when it first arrived.
Anyway, if you are going to hang out on our forums when the site is back up, be patient with people there. Most have spent months and months building up support for their book, and feel like they are having their dreams trampled.
I'm sorry but you have come to the wrong place. We did not bring Klazart upon you, this site DOES NOT endorse Klazart in any official capacity. This site is teamliquid and does not produce its own commentaries on any regular basis.
I'm sorry but you have come to the wrong place. We did not bring Klazart upon you, this site DOES NOT endorse Klazart in any official capacity. This site is teamliquid and does not produce its own commentaries on any regular basis.
To be honest, that website should be glad with new stream of users and try to capture attention of people who enjoy writing and reading (we have plenty of amazing writers) instead of demonising and rejecting them. It's such a great opportunity to get more users and they don't realise that...
On March 23 2009 04:00 Jusciax wrote: To be honest, that website should be glad with new stream of users and try to capture attention of people who enjoy writing and reading (we have plenty of amazing writers) instead of demonising and rejecting them. It's such a great opportunity to get more users and they don't realise that...
agreed, just take a look at final edits or PX our writers r awesome ^^
btw has any1 read his bk yet? is it good? recommended?
On March 23 2009 04:00 Jusciax wrote: To be honest, that website should be glad with new stream of users and try to capture attention of people who enjoy writing and reading (we have plenty of amazing writers) instead of demonising and rejecting them. It's such a great opportunity to get more users and they don't realise that...
and we are very glad for new members, but not for peeps who think it is a good sport to go over and try and crash the site, as many on this thread have suggested. Please, come over, read some books, back them if you like them, leave comments about what you don't like, and join in. There is no them and us, just a lot of individuals on the net, finding stuff that interests them.
On March 23 2009 03:49 deathgod6 wrote: lmao we broke their site? that's awesome.
bless, are you out of nappies yet? destroying things that others find precious tends to fade as you enter the less egocentric stage of childhood and into the next.
Seriously guys, it is comments like this that make me think you don't want to join authonomy to suport K's book or to read other good writing, but merely to vandalise. If this view is a minority then as a community with commandments, tell them to wind their necks in. ju-ju
I doubt these people went to the site with the intention of trying to crash it, they were just defending Klazart and I guess they trolled a bit because it's what they do.
Edit:Note that I haven't read all the threads over there so I don't know the whole picture, this is just a guess
On March 23 2009 03:49 deathgod6 wrote: lmao we broke their site? that's awesome.
bless, are you out of nappies yet? destroying things that others find precious tends to fade as you enter the less egocentric stage of childhood and into the next.
Seriously guys, it is comments like this that make me think you don't want to join authonomy to suport K's book or to read other good writing, but merely to vandalise. If this view is a minority then as a community with commandments, tell them to wind their necks in. ju-ju
there will always be people who try to break things, no matter where you go. They don't necessarily represent the community just because they post on the forums etc.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
From what i understand he lives in ireland. And it's not his voice that makes us love his commentating, it's his fire. He commentates like a Korean (almost)
Crashing the site wasn't intentional. It was simply a by-product of some excess of people at a given time producing too much of a load for the server. There was (as far as I am aware) no deliberate DDOS attack, just a lot of people. It was the server's fault as much as the influx of people's fault -- an unintended consequence. However, taking pleasure from forcing a site offline should be frowned upon; likewise, accusing others, and then perpetrating the myth, of a nonexistent attack should also be frowned upon.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
From what i understand he lives in ireland. And it's not his voice that makes us love his commentating, it's his fire. He commentates like a Korean (almost)
Do you guys even read threads anymore? This was answered 5 times or so.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
From what i understand he lives in ireland. And it's not his voice that makes us love his commentating, it's his fire. He commentates like a Korean (almost)
Do you guys even read threads anymore? This was answered 5 times or so.
Oh sorry i was just reading through the first page and saw your post. I was unaware of the 13 other pages.
On March 23 2009 04:00 R3condite wrote: iono y they r coming to teamliquid though...
Because TLers went over there first and someone probably dropped the name. I'm sure Klazart didn't tell them he was from TL
No one dropped the name throughout all the threads that I've read, and I actually spent the time to look through every one. Typing Klazart in Google pretty much gives you all the info you need.
TL Fontong: I'm sorry but you have come to the wrong place. We did not bring Klazart upon you, this site DOES NOT endorse Klazart in any official capacity. This site is teamliquid and does not produce its own commentaries on any regular basis.
TL: Ncontrol: IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT?
TL: Piskooooo: I think it's funny that these people are like 40-50 years old yet they're calling him nigger/paki (one person)
TL: Piskooooo: I feel like DDOSing the site just for all the racist shit on there.
TL: Bozali: I'm pretty sure he's indian and I can understand people not liking his voice.
TL: Shavingcream66: sorry guys, but i'm gonna start trolling these forums because this is great
TL: Shavingcream66: look at this person and tell me she's normal
TL: Hot_Bid: I have a feeling this book will overtake Klazart's soon (Shadow Rush)
TL: Aphelion: This reminds me of that stripper website we crashed in on for a few weeks.
TL: Fobulous: lol this is like 4chan
TL: Pika Chu: Well seems the starcraft community owns authonomy. We have teh powar!
Okay, bored now. Kudos to those on TL who were even-handed in their comments, and there were plenty, but the rest... Pot, Kettle, Black.
bless, are you out of nappies yet? destroying things that others find precious tends to fade as you enter the less egocentric stage of childhood and into the next.
Calling people incontinent egocentric children is not the way to further your aims.
Then again, judging by your need for acknowledgment this isn't about much more than an attempt to obtain a modicum of self validation by taking veiled shots at a group which you've decided to label and deride. But have you really decided to label and deride us? Lets take a look see at that next paragraph:
Seriously guys, it is comments like this that make me think you don't want to join authonomy to suport K's book or to read other good writing, but merely to vandalise. If this view is a minority then as a community with commandments, tell them to wind their necks in. ju-ju
So we're a group of vandals because some people have expressed anger at a number of racist, venomous replies to someone who just wants to get feedback for his book? Fantastic. I'm glad we got that out of the way.
As for your view that our moderators should liquidate people who don't conform to your views of what's acceptable on this forum, why don't we apply the same standards to your forum and have every person who made replies of a similar spirit removed. From the looks of it, there were only a handful of members who didn't allow their emotions to run unchecked, so you're going to have quite the cleanup job.
On March 23 2009 05:01 Descent wrote: Crashing the site wasn't intentional. It was simply a by-product of some excess of people at a given time producing too much of a load for the server. There was (as far as I am aware) no deliberate DDOS attack, just a lot of people. It was the server's fault as much as the influx of people's fault -- an unintended consequence. However, taking pleasure from forcing a site offline should be frowned upon; likewise, accusing others, and then perpetrating the myth, of a nonexistent attack should also be frowned upon.
thanks guys, i can see this community is little different to Authonomies (except perhaps for age range). And i agree that the it is not 'your' fault that the Authonomy server could not cope with such a volume of traffic. Just like on Authonomy, the vast majority of members are just doing there thing without malicious intent, and just like on Authonomy there will always be the minority that pretend they are talking for you all, when you are more than capable (as i am) of speaking up for yourself. I really wish you no ill, and would love some of you who have joined Authonomy to stick around. Every genre, every type of writing can be found there. ju-ju
On March 23 2009 05:12 Floodgate wrote: TL Fontong: I'm sorry but you have come to the wrong place. We did not bring Klazart upon you, this site DOES NOT endorse Klazart in any official capacity. This site is teamliquid and does not produce its own commentaries on any regular basis.
TL: Ncontrol: IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT?
TL: Piskooooo: I think it's funny that these people are like 40-50 years old yet they're calling him nigger/paki (one person)
TL: Piskooooo: I feel like DDOSing the site just for all the racist shit on there.
TL: Bozali: I'm pretty sure he's indian and I can understand people not liking his voice.
TL: Shavingcream66: sorry guys, but i'm gonna start trolling these forums because this is great
TL: Shavingcream66: look at this person and tell me she's normal
TL: Hot_Bid: I have a feeling this book will overtake Klazart's soon (Shadow Rush)
TL: Aphelion: This reminds me of that stripper website we crashed in on for a few weeks.
TL: Fobulous: lol this is like 4chan
TL: Pika Chu: Well seems the starcraft community owns authonomy. We have teh powar!
Okay, bored now. Kudos to those on TL who were even-handed in their comments, and there were plenty, but the rest... Pot, Kettle, Black.
bless, are you out of nappies yet? destroying things that others find precious tends to fade as you enter the less egocentric stage of childhood and into the next.
Calling people incontinent egocentric children is not the way to further your aims.
Then again, judging by your need for acknowledgment this isn't about much more than an attempt to obtain a modicum of self validation by taking veiled shots at a group which you've decided to label and deride. But have you really decided to label and deride us? Lets take a look see at that next paragraph:
Seriously guys, it is comments like this that make me think you don't want to join authonomy to suport K's book or to read other good writing, but merely to vandalise. If this view is a minority then as a community with commandments, tell them to wind their necks in. ju-ju
So we're a group of vandals because some people have expressed anger at a number of racist, venomous replies to someone who just wants to get feedback for his book? Fantastic. I'm glad we got that out of the way.
As for your view that our moderators should liquidate people who don't conform to your views of what's acceptable on this forum, why don't we apply the same standards to your forum and have every person who made replies of a similar spirit removed. From the looks of it, there were only a handful of members who didn't allow their emotions to run unchecked, so you're going to have quite the cleanup job.
hey, calm, my nappy comment was directed at a particular poster who gleefully admitted his or her purpose was to vandalise. As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others. I actually commented and backed the book because it is excellent writing on a very current theme. I am not here to flame, rather to seek those moderate minds who tend form the majority. No idea what the liquidate comment is about? ju-ju
On March 23 2009 05:01 Descent wrote: Crashing the site wasn't intentional. It was simply a by-product of some excess of people at a given time producing too much of a load for the server. There was (as far as I am aware) no deliberate DDOS attack, just a lot of people. It was the server's fault as much as the influx of people's fault -- an unintended consequence. However, taking pleasure from forcing a site offline should be frowned upon; likewise, accusing others, and then perpetrating the myth, of a nonexistent attack should also be frowned upon.
thanks guys, i can see this community is little different to Authonomies (except perhaps for age range). And i agree that the it is not 'your' fault that the Authonomy server could not cope with such a volume of traffic. Just like on Authonomy, the vast majority of members are just doing there thing without malicious intent, and just like on Authonomy there will always be the minority that pretend they are talking for you all, when you are more than capable (as i am) of speaking up for yourself. I really wish you no ill, and would love some of you who have joined Authonomy to stick around. Every genre, every type of writing can be found there. ju-ju
The problem, perhaps, is that I think a large number of Authonomy regulars did in fact believe and back such a thought, particularly in the one 70+ page thread by Annabelle. Even though many of those same regulars are now a bit more open to Klazart, his book, and the newly registered members, it's a bit unfair to say that only a minority pretended to perceive the server loads as an attack. It was, in my opinion, actually the general consensus among Authonomy forum posters that such was happening, and that all of the new users were clone accounts of Klazart, and thus illegitimate. This is deserving of an apology; again, this is just my opinion, but the opinions on Authonomy were largely incorrect, just as a small handful (less than 5?) of the newly registered members on your forums have been truly harmful, and for which you similarly deserve an apology.
i think it is clear that in both cases, individuals must speak for themselves and own their actions. The 70+ page thread contains a huge variety of view points, some i agree with, some i don't. Some are rude and hurtful and some are measured and inclusive. I hope both these communities can learn stuff from each other, flame wars are so droll. If an individual has been offensive, it is up to them to apologise. I all i want is to be able to read great books and get feedback on my own writing, and hopefully reach the Ed's desk through merit and yes a bit of networking.
As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others.
Well, again, apply my issue of the double standard; if i'm correct in assuming you are who you are on the authonomy forums, then you weren't 'asking the less excitable members.. to guide the others'.
No one on authonomy was calling on wannabe to stop his machine gun posts. there was an almost eerie avoidance of the mention that one of your members was telling klaz to fuck off in every post, and that's not to start on the racism. Any opposition to the above three symptoms of a defensive, xenophobic outcry were minority affairs.
So while you say that you might want these two communities to lay down their swords and pick up plowshares, your first goal should be to put your own house in order. I'm downright disgusted by what I saw on that forum, and there hasn't been an apology, any rescinding of comments or anything even close to a community consensus that something wrong was done.
In my opinion, very few of the comments made by Authonomy members in that thread's first 30 or so pages were not rude or harmful. You, and the other members, have a right to be upset about your falling rankings. However, that does not legitimize the use of ignorance and false accusations against a large number of human users. Also, five out of fifty is a far larger proportion than say, five out of six hundred. A good percentage of Authonomy's members were making ad hominem statements not only against Klazart, but against his fans. In a similar manner, a smaller percentage of those fans have reciprocated the comments. This I feel is true, even if the same number of people on both sides were involved, as it does seem to me like Authonomy's userbase is smaller.
wow I just realised something: Klazart is the Linkin Park of Starcraft, SC2gg is the Nu Metal of Starcraft There's a big number of people getting into that kind of stuff because of them, then after a while you get to know what sc/heavy music is all about and start to realise uh wow Linkin Park is actually kinda noob music, fuck linkin park man but then you realise jeez if it wasnt for that band i wouldnt ever have gotten into all the other kick ass bands like isis or tasteless (im sure theres a heavy metal band with that name somwhere ^^)
I have to say though Klaz is really good at bringing excitement into the game and its just fun too hear him talk with like 400 apm (he's like the by.hero of talking man) and I like it a lot more than any of the professional sports commentators in german TV or those annoying fu**ers at ESPN commentating WSOP (only poker commentator who rocks is gabe kaplan of course)
What I dont understand about all the sc2gg commentators though is why, seeing how much time they put into starcraft, they dont put more time into playing some more themselves and getting better themselves, their commentary would improve so much. Anyways I dont really think I added anything new to this discussion but whatever I felt like posting this ^^
By the way I also had a friend from singapore who's last name was Bhalla when I was in UK for a year.
Damn I didnt even realise back then what his name truly means back then... fu*k
And hm I just realised all the other guys never made fun of / admired his name either... I guess british people dont really know the word baller.. weird though i mean even sea[shield] knows what that means ^^
As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others.
Well, again, apply my issue of the double standard; if i'm correct in assuming you are who you are on the authonomy forums, then you weren't 'asking the less excitable members.. to guide the others'.
No one on authonomy was calling on wannabe to stop his machine gun posts. there was an almost eerie avoidance of the mention that one of your members was telling klaz to fuck off in every post, and that's not to start on the racism. Any opposition to the above three symptoms of a defensive, xenophobic outcry were minority affairs.
So while you say that you might want these two communities to lay down their swords and pick up plowshares, your first goal should be to put your own house in order. I'm downright disgusted by what I saw on that forum, and there hasn't been an apology, any rescinding of comments or anything even close to a community consensus that something wrong was done.
my few comments on the forum were measured and i read the book commented and liked it enough to back it. In that way i have shown acceptable behaviour through my actions. Kicking off on a forum thread is not the best way to get people to back down. Authonomy members often have very heated debates about many issues, as writers, most of us are opposed to censorship, but if behaviour crosses a line i.e. direct racism for the purpose of inciting hatred (rather than hot heads getting carried away on a forum thread), then the site has a report abuse function. If you feel some of the comments have crossed the line, then i strongly suggest you let the guys who run Authonomy know.
As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others.
Well, again, apply my issue of the double standard; if i'm correct in assuming you are who you are on the authonomy forums, then you weren't 'asking the less excitable members.. to guide the others'.
No one on authonomy was calling on wannabe to stop his machine gun posts. there was an almost eerie avoidance of the mention that one of your members was telling klaz to fuck off in every post, and that's not to start on the racism. Any opposition to the above three symptoms of a defensive, xenophobic outcry were minority affairs.
So while you say that you might want these two communities to lay down their swords and pick up plowshares, your first goal should be to put your own house in order. I'm downright disgusted by what I saw on that forum, and there hasn't been an apology, any rescinding of comments or anything even close to a community consensus that something wrong was done.
my few comments on the forum were measured and i read the book commented and liked it enough to back it. In that way i have shown acceptable behaviour through my actions. Kicking off on a forum thread is not the best way to get people to back down. Authonomy members often have very heated debates about many issues, as writers, most of us are opposed to censorship, but if behaviour crosses a line i.e. direct racism for the purpose of inciting hatred (rather than hot heads getting carried away on a forum thread), then the site has a report abuse function. If you feel some of the comments have crossed the line, then i strongly suggest you let the guys who run Authonomy know.
Why are you even here? This place has nothing to do with Klazart, and the majority of the people don't even support him (in fact, very much the opposite).
As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others.
Well, again, apply my issue of the double standard; if i'm correct in assuming you are who you are on the authonomy forums, then you weren't 'asking the less excitable members.. to guide the others'.
No one on authonomy was calling on wannabe to stop his machine gun posts. there was an almost eerie avoidance of the mention that one of your members was telling klaz to fuck off in every post, and that's not to start on the racism. Any opposition to the above three symptoms of a defensive, xenophobic outcry were minority affairs.
So while you say that you might want these two communities to lay down their swords and pick up plowshares, your first goal should be to put your own house in order. I'm downright disgusted by what I saw on that forum, and there hasn't been an apology, any rescinding of comments or anything even close to a community consensus that something wrong was done.
my few comments on the forum were measured and i read the book commented and liked it enough to back it. In that way i have shown acceptable behaviour through my actions. Kicking off on a forum thread is not the best way to get people to back down. Authonomy members often have very heated debates about many issues, as writers, most of us are opposed to censorship, but if behaviour crosses a line i.e. direct racism for the purpose of inciting hatred (rather than hot heads getting carried away on a forum thread), then the site has a report abuse function. If you feel some of the comments have crossed the line, then i strongly suggest you let the guys who run Authonomy know.
Hm I find it a bit strange though how you dont get upset about that kind of behaviour yourself If I saw racist comments on any community I often take part in I would get very angry and immediately tell an admin to ban/we that person
As the rest of the post points out, i assume that view is the minority, but you know how easy it is for one or two forceful views to be seen as representing the masses, and all i ask was (like on Authonomy) the less excitable members helped to guide the others.
Well, again, apply my issue of the double standard; if i'm correct in assuming you are who you are on the authonomy forums, then you weren't 'asking the less excitable members.. to guide the others'.
No one on authonomy was calling on wannabe to stop his machine gun posts. there was an almost eerie avoidance of the mention that one of your members was telling klaz to fuck off in every post, and that's not to start on the racism. Any opposition to the above three symptoms of a defensive, xenophobic outcry were minority affairs.
So while you say that you might want these two communities to lay down their swords and pick up plowshares, your first goal should be to put your own house in order. I'm downright disgusted by what I saw on that forum, and there hasn't been an apology, any rescinding of comments or anything even close to a community consensus that something wrong was done.
my few comments on the forum were measured and i read the book commented and liked it enough to back it. In that way i have shown acceptable behaviour through my actions. Kicking off on a forum thread is not the best way to get people to back down. Authonomy members often have very heated debates about many issues, as writers, most of us are opposed to censorship, but if behaviour crosses a line i.e. direct racism for the purpose of inciting hatred (rather than hot heads getting carried away on a forum thread), then the site has a report abuse function. If you feel some of the comments have crossed the line, then i strongly suggest you let the guys who run Authonomy know.
Why are you even here? This place has nothing to do with Klazart, and the majority of the people don't even support him (in fact, very much the opposite).
Well I suppose he's here to support/defend a site he cares about... nothing wrong with that. even though theres various people from tl disliking klaz im still sure theres several TLers who only knew about this via TL -> started making comments on their site.. i mean just look at JWDs comment "Even though Klaz is pretty unpopular amongst staff at TL, I think we should support his book because
a) this is hilarious. b) anyone who categorically insults gamers deserves to pranked, at the very least. "
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
From what i understand he lives in ireland. And it's not his voice that makes us love his commentating, it's his fire. He commentates like a Korean (almost)
Do you guys even read threads anymore? This was answered 5 times or so.
Oh sorry i was just reading through the first page and saw your post. I was unaware of the 13 other pages.
Not reading the tread is one thing, but not noticing the thread? Wow, man.
On March 23 2009 05:34 Descent wrote: In my opinion, very few of the comments made by Authonomy members in that thread's first 30 or so pages were not rude or harmful. You, and the other members, have a right to be upset about your falling rankings. However, that does not legitimize the use of ignorance and false accusations against a large number of human users. Also, five out of fifty is a far larger proportion than say, five out of six hundred. A good percentage of Authonomy's members were making ad hominem statements not only against Klazart, but against his fans. In a similar manner, a smaller percentage of those fans have reciprocated the comments. This I feel is true, even if the same number of people on both sides were involved, as it does seem to me like Authonomy's userbase is smaller.
i actually don't know the membership of Authonomy so can't comment on who had the biggest amount of unruly members (not sure that it is relevant, anyhow). By the time i surfaced this morning the thread had reached 60 something, so no idea what was on the first thirty pages (i think i make a couple of comments around page 70). And the ranking thing is certainly not an issue to me. And i agree nothing legitmises ignorance or false accusations - but then we are all human and liable to emotional outbursts. But if you think anyone crossed a line (as in my previous thread) make use on the report abuse function (when the site is up and running again). I miss it you know - i had a lot of reads i'd promised to do for other writers today, and its been running so badly, i couldn't open their chapters.
And yes the reason I'm here is because i do care about the site. But i think i have said all i can. Thanks to the members on here who engaged in conversation. From some of the messages on this thread, particular the one that pulls up an Authonomy members avatar, strictly to make fun of it, i hope you challenge your own members on abusive posts, as you expect me to do on Authonomy. If any of you do want to come over and read, there really are some great novels of all genres.
Truly a masterpiece. Nicholas T. Shadow touches on the human psyche like no other. From his writing we can see the transformations of a man, as his passion slowly turns into an obsession which slowly consumes him. This lack of self control I fear, is never ending; controlling. He demonstrates through experience and reflection that time is a valuable thing, as we watch it fly by as the pendulum swings.
As the pressure begins to overcome the protagonist, the reader sees glimpses of the former man juxtaposed with the chaos; it's a very surreal experience. Soon enough, without a sense of confidence, I'm convinced there's just too much pressure to take. One asks themselves, what was it all for if in the end it doesn't even matter? The protagonist completely breaks down and all the accomplishments are for naught.
It's a very confronting piece from someone that has experienced the very highs and the very lows of life. A must read.
xD
@ju-ju yes i think you said all there was to say and Im sure people who read this whole thing are aware now that theres no point in spamming on your site, even if they were stupid enough not to come to that conclusion on their own
The truly hilarious (and ultimately depressing) part of this entire battle is the incredible pointlessness of it. I've been on that site for six months. Each month the battle for the Editor's Desk has got more vitriolic, more mal-adjusted and further and further out of control. However, it won't make a jot of difference in the end. It never does. You should see the standards of the crits that HC dish out! They're laughable. No one has been picked up from the top five in any month. This is as likely due to the brutal reality of market forces as anything else, Harper Collins is a company with a bottom line, shareholders to keep happy, and staff to pay. They probably have a team of accountants peering over their collective shoulders saying "ah, ah, ah" and shaking their heads. Klazart is playing the game, and giving it his best shot, fair dos to him, I wish him well. His book isn't my cup of tea, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that others will like it a lot. And racist comments are completely unacceptable anywhere.
One thing I would ask people to consider though, before they think that it's just the old guard being old and crusty. I've worked damn hard on my pieces that are up there, and sure Klazart's playing the game (he isn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last), but.... I see what's going on and I wonder if my work has the slightest merit or chance at even a half way decent review by anyone because I lack the technical skill to produce a big bang entrance like that. And yes it is pretty emotional too, because I poured my heart into my work. Authonomy was a bit like trying to flog a grizzly bear with a twig. Now, it's like trying to flog a steamroller........
On March 23 2009 05:34 Descent wrote: In my opinion, very few of the comments made by Authonomy members in that thread's first 30 or so pages were not rude or harmful. You, and the other members, have a right to be upset about your falling rankings. However, that does not legitimize the use of ignorance and false accusations against a large number of human users. Also, five out of fifty is a far larger proportion than say, five out of six hundred. A good percentage of Authonomy's members were making ad hominem statements not only against Klazart, but against his fans. In a similar manner, a smaller percentage of those fans have reciprocated the comments. This I feel is true, even if the same number of people on both sides were involved, as it does seem to me like Authonomy's userbase is smaller.
i actually don't know the membership of Authonomy so can't comment on who had the biggest amount of unruly members (not sure that it is relevant, anyhow). By the time i surfaced this morning the thread had reached 60 something, so no idea what was on the first thirty pages (i think i make a couple of comments around page 70). And the ranking thing is certainly not an issue to me. And i agree nothing legitmises ignorance or false accusations - but then we are all human and liable to emotional outbursts. But if you think anyone crossed a line (as in my previous thread) make use on the report abuse function (when the site is up and running again). I miss it you know - i had a lot of reads i'd promised to do for other writers today, and its been running so badly, i couldn't open their chapters.
I, for one, read the thread, in its entirety, on your forums. And I think it relevant. A large proportion of Authonomy's active posters went out of their way to dehumanize Klazart's fans. A smaller group from the other side have insulted Authonomy members -- considerably less if you take into account the entirety of Klazart's fanbase on YouTube. Similarly, very many new members have joined Authonomy's system, while very few have deemed it necessary to venture into the forums supposedly aiding Klazart. Perhaps they do not know how to find these threads. In any case, I find it unjust that the moderate members here, who are hardly connected at all, can be labeled by Authonomy's regulars as mere bots. Therein, I believe, lies a true need for apology. Regardless of the outcome with respect to Klazart's book, the Authonomy users were the first to degrade an entire population of users, albeit perhaps unknowingly. I do not believe it right to just pretend the insults to Klazart's fanbase as homogeneous idiots never existed.
...This is a bit preempted by the post you just made.
wow, this is amazing, its like a present day internet forum just stumbled on one that is somehow still in the 1960s. I'm registering now to sigh hello from the future.
Teamliquid your pretty sad, you claim to hate klazart yet apparantly most of you watch his videos. I prefer the normal korean streams over anything anyways but this is just pathetic.
On March 23 2009 06:32 only_human89 wrote: Teamliquid your pretty sad, you claim to hate klazart yet apparantly most of you watch his videos. I prefer the normal korean streams over anything anyways but this is just pathetic.
I was not aware that watching his videos requires being a fan, or that being a fan requires watching his videos. Do you ever read books of which you are not a fan of the author?
Ahh, why did I even start to read this thread. Incontrol, you make me sad, you make me lose all respect I once had for you. How can you attack a person that has contributed so much for the community?? You might not like him from your perspective, but loads of noobs and ppl that are new to this communty love him, for his entusiasm, the very same entusiasm we share for this game!!! I for once would never stayed and keept watching proleague and SaviOr when he was in his prime, if it wasnt for Klazart. He made it intresting, his entusiasm is somthing all other commentators LACK. I dont watch him these days, for many reasons. Doesnt mean I start flaming him, I still respect him for giving me and other ppl what he has!! Doesnt give you the right to come here, talk offtopic and flame the guy thats done NOTHING wrong. You got alot of respect here by many, and now you turn that into shit, you lost all mine, even if you dont care. Sorry dude... your going waaay over the line.
the klazart fans vs TL argument has been done a billion times, let's please not get into it too much here, we've all come to a grudging understanding with each other.
On March 23 2009 06:32 only_human89 wrote: Teamliquid your pretty sad, you claim to hate klazart yet apparantly most of you watch his videos. I prefer the normal korean streams over anything anyways but this is just pathetic.
I was not aware that watching his videos requires being a fan, or that being a fan requires watching his videos. Do you ever read books of which you are not a fan of the author?
no he lives a very simple and structured world, everything is 1+1=2
heh, this is interesting. i didn't realize klaz had so many fans.
depending on what the real purpose of authonomy's contest is (something tells me its not the book quality), they might need to alter their ranking algorithm. like MoC pointed out here, having registered time/contribution to the site be a variable that affects the weight of the vote could be helpful.
of course that's assuming they want a high quality book as opposed to a potentially popular one. somehow i don't think that's the case.
anyway, this will always happen no matter how you alter the algorithm. Hell, even digg's frontpage algo can be quite easily manipulated ;-)
On March 23 2009 06:32 only_human89 wrote: Teamliquid your pretty sad, you claim to hate klazart yet apparantly most of you watch his videos. I prefer the normal korean streams over anything anyways but this is just pathetic.
I was not aware that watching his videos requires being a fan, or that being a fan requires watching his videos. Do you ever read books of which you are not a fan of the author?
You guys already know you don't like him though. So why keep wathcing his videos to flame about it? Is it really still that funny even on the forums? I guess it's no big deal. I was just suprised so many people care. I usually just ignore things I don't like or appreciate, even if it's funny to laugh at. Yes i have read books about an author i don't care for, but i never bring that author or book up in conversation.
On March 23 2009 06:32 only_human89 wrote: Teamliquid your pretty sad, you claim to hate klazart yet apparantly most of you watch his videos. I prefer the normal korean streams over anything anyways but this is just pathetic.
I was not aware that watching his videos requires being a fan, or that being a fan requires watching his videos. Do you ever read books of which you are not a fan of the author?
no he lives a very simple and structured world, everything is 1+1=2
On March 23 2009 06:51 ThePhan2m wrote: Ahh, why did I even start to read this thread. Incontrol, you make me sad, you make me lose all respect I once had for you. How can you attack a person that has contributed so much for the community?? You might not like him from your perspective, but loads of noobs and ppl that are new to this communty love him, for his entusiasm, the very same entusiasm we share for this game!!! I for once would never stayed and keept watching proleague and SaviOr when he was in his prime, if it wasnt for Klazart. He made it intresting, his entusiasm is somthing all other commentators LACK. I dont watch him these days, for many reasons. Doesnt mean I start flaming him, I still respect him for giving me and other ppl what he has!! Doesnt give you the right to come here, talk offtopic and flame the guy thats done NOTHING wrong. You got alot of respect here by many, and now you turn that into shit, you lost all mine, even if you dont care. Sorry dude... your going waaay over the line.
arrrg wtf man incontrol already said himself that he realises the points you make at first are true.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
I love watching Klaz commentated games, even tho english is not my foreign language, I can understand 95% of what he says, and (sorry tasteless) I theres no commentator I like more than him.
Altho artosis in GOM is really good to watch as well, overall, they are all good, for theyr respective audiences.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
LOL, seriously, Inc will eat you alive. He frigging eats ULTRALISKS on breakfest. T____T
On March 22 2009 15:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I really cannot stress enough that it is fucking TERRIBLE that people are so adamantly in support of that guy. It is like Gilbert Godfrey being an ESPN commentator.. it BLOWS MY MIND. He has the most nerdy, irritating and terrible tone I have ever heard. I am sure he is a great human being but he has NO BUSINESS commentating on the level he does.
iNcontrol what do you mean by Tone? you need to clarify it.
Definiion: Tone (linguistics): the use of pitch in language to distinguish words
somehow you have to provide fact that shows Klaz's terrible abililty to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.(quote him on places where his pitch prevent him from distinguish words)
if what you say is true, then it means you can't distinguish Klaz's words because of Klaz's tone, hence, you won't be able to understand Klaz's at all. which also means it would be very very easy for you to provide many cases of when you think Klaz failed to use pitch in order to distinguish his words.
and then from that point on your argument is solid, if people can't understand what the commentator is saying, then the commentator has failed. If you can't provide evidences to back up your claim about Klaz's tone being terrible then your argument does not stand.
Which leave you only 1 argument, which is Klaz's lacking in indepth game knowledge, which i agree with you.
K argument debunked you proved I was wrong about having the opinion that klaz's voice is bad. Gg
On March 22 2009 15:27 {88}iNcontroL wrote: And no hating someone's voice isn't trolling. That word is WAY overused. I have just played this video for tasteless, machine, g5, nyoken etc.. they all agree.. this is terrible. If he does great commentary that a bunch of nubs like (which I heard is the case) that is good. But I can have the opinion that his voice is horrid and I have no idea how anyone can think that voice is good for commentating.
wait i didn't say he had a horrible voice, just that he doesn't have the stereotypical commentator voice when you asked me on ventrillo. don't start some war between our two fanbases lol, i do appreciate what klazart does.
guys read the whole thing, iNcontrol have already admitted that he is wrong, give him a break, and testeless clarified some of the misunderstandings, so let's just drop this.
On March 23 2009 06:51 ThePhan2m wrote: Ahh, why did I even start to read this thread. Incontrol, you make me sad, you make me lose all respect I once had for you. How can you attack a person that has contributed so much for the community?? You might not like him from your perspective, but loads of noobs and ppl that are new to this communty love him, for his entusiasm, the very same entusiasm we share for this game!!! I for once would never stayed and keept watching proleague and SaviOr when he was in his prime, if it wasnt for Klazart. He made it intresting, his entusiasm is somthing all other commentators LACK. I dont watch him these days, for many reasons. Doesnt mean I start flaming him, I still respect him for giving me and other ppl what he has!! Doesnt give you the right to come here, talk offtopic and flame the guy thats done NOTHING wrong. You got alot of respect here by many, and now you turn that into shit, you lost all mine, even if you dont care. Sorry dude... your going waaay over the line.
Well, authonomy seems to be back online, which is good. I think this whole 'incident' can be a helpful experience for all future. HC needs to improve their rating system for situations like Klazart's and HC members hopefully are now fully aware of the influence of social networks/media/communities.
What would happen if Rekrul decided to publish his upcoming book on HC...?
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Do you think Klazart is a new guy? Please, this guy has been around for years, eventually pulling back off YT to finish a book (which this thread is about). Tasteless etc. have said himself (and in this thread) he likes Klazart's voice. People like Diggity, Day9 etc. can't compare to klazart. Listen to some of his commentaries, you will see he is the closest we (foreigners) will get to Korean commentators. Tasteless however is my (and mosts) favourite, with Klazart as a good second. Look around, man.
Seriously stop derailing the topic, the whole Klazart (and too a larger extent) "SC2GG commentators are bad" argument has been played out already.
And yes, I do watch their commentaries, but this arguing is retarded. Tasteless, Daniel Lee, and Artosis have all done a lot for the SC community, same with the SC2GG commentators on Youtube, I have lots of respect for them regardless of their faults. That doesn't mean, however, that we are not allowed to critique their work.
This thread isn't even about that anyway. This thread is about Klazart's book and the fiasco on Authonomy. Stop derailing the thread.
It can be a bit jarring to watch some Klazart commentaries where he gets things wrong, but mostly people who know enough to know that he's wrong probably don't need to watch games with commentaries in the first place.
On March 23 2009 06:04 Mockingbird wrote: The truly hilarious (and ultimately depressing) part of this entire battle is the incredible pointlessness of it.
Welcome to the internet. I suggest you don't take things so seriously. 95% of the people will be gone by this time next week, and perhaps the rest will become members of your site and contribute in some way (which is still a pretty good number).
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Do you think Klazart is a new guy? Please, this guy has been around for years, eventually pulling back off YT to finish a book (which this thread is about). Tasteless etc. have said himself (and in this thread) he likes Klazart's voice. People like Diggity, Day9 etc. can't compare to klazart. Listen to some of his commentaries, you will see he is the closest we (foreigners) will get to Korean commentators. Tasteless however is my (and mosts) favourite, with Klazart as a good second. Look around, man.
I don't mean to derail the thread anymore, but you are really quite confused. Klazart doesn't even play StarCraft competitively, so he can't have a good understanding of the game. Commentating isn't just about energy or passion...a lot of it has to do with your knowledge of the game. Please don't make bold claims with no factual basis.
On March 23 2009 07:37 Zozma wrote: It can be a bit jarring to watch some Klazart commentaries where he gets things wrong, but mostly people who know enough to know that he's wrong probably don't need to watch games with commentaries in the first place.
You're implying that we need the commentary to understand what's happening, to enjoy a game. That is not true, at least not in most cases, I can see for myself what is on the screen, I watch the sc2gg guys for the added personal values: Klaz's crazy temper and jokes, Cholera's humour, history tidbits and overwhelming Reach-love, I could go on forever. The insight that Artosis, Chill and Tasteless can provide is great, but they might be lacking in other qualities. There's no universal objective scale to commentators, stop trying.
TL and SC2GG both should set these questions of pride aside already. (it is the root of all the drama)
On March 22 2009 19:59 MyLostTemple wrote: guys read the whole thing, iNcontrol have already admitted that he is wrong, give him a break, and testeless clarified some of the misunderstandings, so let's just drop this.
On March 22 2009 17:42 HnR)Insane wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ jesus, about what? It's some random internet forum which has nothing to do with you If you get so pissed about this stuff, what do you think about the existence of forums like stormfront
Don't know what stormfront is, I'm afraid to look.
The Stormfront White Nationalist Community is a white nationalist/pride/supremacist,[a] neo-Nazi Internet forum that has been described as the Internet's first major hate site,[c] and the first and most popular racist website.
Oh god what the fuck. I don't even know how to reply to that.
I know: links or it didn't happen!
On March 22 2009 19:33 luiohh wrote: I like his commentaries. Without them, starcraft VODs are to us nubs just videos of cartoon units twirling and exploding with an incessant and undecipherable chatter of Korean in the background. Without Klazart (or the other commentators), these videos are simply unwatchable. We (ok, maybe just me) don't even know what's going on - let alone what strategical implications are involved. We don't even know if Jaedong has done a 9 pool or a 12pool, or if Flash is going for a timing rush or what have you.
I much rather watch the Korean VODs than listen to most of the amateur commentators that are available on youtube. A lot of them say things that are completely erroneous at times and make their viewers and fanbase, in their ignorance, believe said things to be correct, while adding very little to the actual match.
To be able to truly enjoy a starcraft match, you have to know something about the game. This holds true for most any sport/game. I don't understand you when you say that you are enjoying klazart's vods and at the same time consider the original vods unwatchable..? I understand that you are a nub (don't be offended), as you admitted, but have you ever pondered the fact that you might need to know the basics of any given discipline before you can enjoy and understand its finer points? This is just common sense.
Seeing the difference between 9 and 12 pool is quite easy if you have ever played as zerg (pool is morphed after the first overlord) or know basic strategies. I know this and I am not even a zerg player. Why? Because I have to know it if I ever want to beat a zerg.
Sure, there are better commentators out there. No need to argue about that. But they don't commentate on starleague games. Klazart's voice is annoying? Clearly, some find it so. I don't (admittedly his accent is pretty strange). Many don't. I think his delivery is exciting and passionate, without which I'll lose interest within minutes.
Lastly, Gilbert Godfrey is a paid professional. Klazart is not. He does it as a hobby, and many of his fans like it.
As I recall, there are several other amateur English commentators that cover starleague games, and with better insight too.
Another thing that people who have written things about Klazart's voice and how different things matter to different ppl, etc do not seem to recognise is that to be a commentator, esp. a professional commentator, you have to have a bearable voice at the very least... this is a PREREQUISITE to becoming a commentator. You have to have the voice, the job requires this. Knowledge can be obtained through study, there are commentators who are strictly play-by-play and they are usually accompanied by a colour commentator that knows the ins and outs of the game/sport at hand. Klazart is trying to be both, but he cannot be either.
Don't get me wrong, Klazart is contributing to the community. That is great. If he can get ppl to become interested in SC, more power to him. However, people who strive to become good at SC must understand that alot of the stuff he is saying is just wrong.
On March 22 2009 23:33 Jibba wrote: Watching old people on the internet is such a strange experience. Obviously what he did was marginally against the spirit of the competition, but in no ways did it actually break any rules. I don't know if these people are naive or overly sheltered, but any adult should be able to understand what went on and why it was not cheating. I suppose none of them have ever asked their friends or family to vote for their books?
And less of the old! I prefer yummy-mummy, thank you.
yummy... mummy...........
Lol.. what's your iccup nick?
@Hot_bid: You are a hero and a visionary. I am backing your book.
This is incredible:
LastShadow's messages
click here to leave a message JasonDiggy wrote 6 hours ago
Hi Nicholas. You claim to be intelligent, and I would like to believe you, but I read you book and it's filled with "faggot" this and "retarded" that. You also seem to have a big issue with being white and foreigners. None of this is very smart, and I'm sure you can see how it is offensive to most intelligent people. You can be better than this. You can be a leader. report abuse CarolinaAl wrote 7 hours ago
Hi Nicholas,
Do you read romantic suspense. If so, you might want to take a look at SAVANNAH PASSION. Here's the blurb:
Good looking, high rolling characters in an exclusive setting. Complex interrelationships. Stale, tainted marriages. Treachery. New lovers. Hitmen. Missing neighbors.
Problems and plot twists abound in this puzzling, fast paced story of the Falcon family of Savannah, Georgia.
Shawn is a skirt chaser and an attorney for the Russian mob. Or is he? Nate is the new headmaster at a private school. Or is he? Judge Sommerset is the head of a fabulously successful charity. Or is he? And, what of the women in their lives? Hayley, Sophie, and Augusta.
The answers lie in SAVANNAH PASSION.
Al
Someone even bothered to spam him with nonsensical and flagrant advertisment... hahaha..
A truly epic day in the tubes...
Edit: Wow.. I just looked at my own post.. it's really long. Sorry if it does not make sense somewhere, but my mind started drifting as I was typing this up.. I wanted to be concise at first, but I failed.
Also, Klazart fans zergrushes authonomy.com this title is so curious. Just random words thrown together.
Wow, browsing the authonomy forums now is quite entertaining and gives some unique insights into how to become the most famous person on a forum within 12 hours. I don't know how active the forums were before Klazart's influx but currently they are a massive buzzing bee hive. =)
On March 23 2009 06:04 Mockingbird wrote: The truly hilarious (and ultimately depressing) part of this entire battle is the incredible pointlessness of it. I've been on that site for six months. Each month the battle for the Editor's Desk has got more vitriolic, more mal-adjusted and further and further out of control. However, it won't make a jot of difference in the end. It never does. You should see the standards of the crits that HC dish out! They're laughable. No one has been picked up from the top five in any month. This is as likely due to the brutal reality of market forces as anything else, Harper Collins is a company with a bottom line, shareholders to keep happy, and staff to pay. They probably have a team of accountants peering over their collective shoulders saying "ah, ah, ah" and shaking their heads. Klazart is playing the game, and giving it his best shot, fair dos to him, I wish him well. His book isn't my cup of tea, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that others will like it a lot. And racist comments are completely unacceptable anywhere.
One thing I would ask people to consider though, before they think that it's just the old guard being old and crusty. I've worked damn hard on my pieces that are up there, and sure Klazart's playing the game (he isn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last), but.... I see what's going on and I wonder if my work has the slightest merit or chance at even a half way decent review by anyone because I lack the technical skill to produce a big bang entrance like that. And yes it is pretty emotional too, because I poured my heart into my work. Authonomy was a bit like trying to flog a grizzly bear with a twig. Now, it's like trying to flog a steamroller........
On March 23 2009 08:22 zulu_nation8 wrote: I love klazart, he's the best commentator out there and has converted thousands, including me into hardcore starcraft fans!
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write right, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
Fixed. Shouldn't HAD TO HAVE DONE THAT.
The whole situation is funny. I personally found the book awful in my opinion, and therefore wouldn't back it in a million years, but I think it is an interesting social experiment.
On March 23 2009 06:04 Mockingbird wrote: The truly hilarious (and ultimately depressing) part of this entire battle is the incredible pointlessness of it.
Welcome to the internet. I suggest you don't take things so seriously. 95% of the people will be gone by this time next week, and perhaps the rest will become members of your site and contribute in some way (which is still a pretty good number).
Unfortunately luv that's not the way to bet. Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
And trust me on this, the shouting and screaming on both sides is totally pointless... Klazart is playing the game, he's winning... good for him. But, unfortunately, each time a new twist to the game comes into play, more and more people who are not so technically adept or lack the time/facilities to play this way are more and more screwed. Hence outbreak of hostilities. But at the end of the day, is the "prize" actually worth winning? Not on the experiences so far. The three successful books were picked despite Authonomy through the traditional routes, and not because of their presence on Authonomy. And there isn't a whole lot of evidence that Authonomy actually does a great deal for your chances with either agents or other publishers.
On March 23 2009 08:22 zulu_nation8 wrote: I love klazart, he's the best commentator out there and has converted thousands, including me into hardcore starcraft fans!
AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH, ZULU <3
Sucked in air and almost had a heart attack! <3 zulu_nation8 thanks for the laugh.
Hey... cool... always happy to welcome new readers (and to be honest, new books too!)....Fatal Diversion is my collaboration novel, and A. Winter's Tale is my solo work in progress... (I should warn that Winter does contain erotica...)
On March 23 2009 06:04 Mockingbird wrote: The truly hilarious (and ultimately depressing) part of this entire battle is the incredible pointlessness of it.
Welcome to the internet. I suggest you don't take things so seriously. 95% of the people will be gone by this time next week, and perhaps the rest will become members of your site and contribute in some way (which is still a pretty good number).
Unfortunately luv that's not the way to bet. Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
And trust me on this, the shouting and screaming on both sides is totally pointless... Klazart is playing the game, he's winning... good for him. But, unfortunately, each time a new twist to the game comes into play, more and more people who are not so technically adept or lack the time/facilities to play this way are more and more screwed. Hence outbreak of hostilities. But at the end of the day, is the "prize" actually worth winning? Not on the experiences so far. The three successful books were picked despite Authonomy through the traditional routes, and not because of their presence on Authonomy. And there isn't a whole lot of evidence that Authonomy actually does a great deal for your chances with either agents or other publishers.
I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
On March 22 2009 17:29 Klaz wrote: I never intended to break the site or anything... just wanted to promote my book(which I've worked very hard on) a little and try to get some feedback, and a lot of the guys on youtube had said they wanted to check it out, so this was a good way to introduce it to them.
I don't hold any malice towards anyone. You're write right, this will only make them more insular as a community, which is kinda sad.
Fixed. Shouldn't HAD TO HAVE DONE THAT.
What's that supposed to mean? Who cares.. he improperly selected a homophone, it does happen when you are writing/typing what you want to communicate quickly
Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
Do you believe that this is the reason for the outcry in general?
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
The hostility stuff is hugely pointless... However, some of the hostility directed at some of the newbies is because people have invested a huge amount of time and poured their hearts into their work, and along comes a steamroller.... and suddenly all that time and personal emotion appears to be wasted. That's why you're getting flames from some of the old guard. I don't condone it, but I do understand it. It doesn't bother me, I have a fairly short attention span for all that flaming, I tend to wander off.
My view, the more, the merrier, unless you want to be trollish about it... got plenty of them already, really don't need any more! Come on over, take a look. Read some stuff (there's an awful lot on there). There's no reason why we can't all exist in some kind of understanding with each other.
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
Note that he did not quote a wiki, but that he linked to it.
Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
Do you believe that this is the reason for the outcry in general?
I know I spent the first three months doing some serious reading and backing, and participating in the forums until I was nearly cross-eyed. I made some great friends, but the site started to down turn round about November. The fight for the Editor's Desk is borderline something... (something really nasty). Some of the forum threads got really vicious. Makes what we've seen here so far seem quite tame actually, and December and January were basically bananas. Quite a few of the old guard started to pull back big time from the site. Some people I have got to know well don't want to have anything to do with the site anymore because it's become the beast that consumes.
Then suddenly there's a new game in town, and fair dos... Klazart's is a spectacular. No reason why he shouldn't invite his existing fanbase to vote... why the hell not? I know I would if I had his numbers. I think the mistake that he inadvertently made was not mentioning the suggestion that folk might like to take a look at some other stuff while they were in there voting for his work. Something that some of our more trollish members have very swiftly latched on to. He's not cheating, and it isn't his fault that Auth's server is basically two tin cans with a piece of string between them. But suddenly he shows up, his book shows up, and half the world follows after, zooms in and backs his book... then walks away without a second glance. He's the reason they're there, why not? It just might seem to some who have scrabbled and fought and clawed and messaged everything that moves and breathes, in an attempt to get their work read, that Klazart is taking an unfair advantage. He's perfectly at liberty to invite anyone he chooses, and he has. I sincerely hope that some of you take advantage and have some fun in there, because it is quite fun, and there are some seriously wicked books too.
This will probably sound a little odd, but I think Klazart hasn't really witnessed just how savage the battle for the ED can get, and he's been a little naiive in thinking that because some of the folk on there are relatively old, that they're not going to be every bit as trollish as the young spoiling for a battle. We've got trolls a-plenty, and some really nasty ones too!
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
Note that he did not quote a wiki, but that he linked to it.
Yay the site is back up now I can actually go read the first four chapters and enjoy some of the discussion on their forums... This ought to be pretty good reading.
Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
Do you believe that this is the reason for the outcry in general?
I know I spent the first three months doing some serious reading and backing, and participating in the forums until I was nearly cross-eyed. I made some great friends, but the site started to down turn round about November. The fight for the Editor's Desk is borderline something... (something really nasty). Some of the forum threads got really vicious. Makes what we've seen here so far seem quite tame actually, and December and January were basically bananas. Quite a few of the old guard started to pull back big time from the site. Some people I have got to know well don't want to have anything to do with the site anymore because it's become the beast that consumes.
Then suddenly there's a new game in town, and fair dos... Klazart's is a spectacular. No reason why he shouldn't invite his existing fanbase to vote... why the hell not? I know I would if I had his numbers. I think the mistake that he inadvertently made was not mentioning the suggestion that folk might like to take a look at some other stuff while they were in there voting for his work. Something that some of our more trollish members have very swiftly latched on to. He's not cheating, and it isn't his fault that Auth's server is basically two tin cans with a piece of string between them. But suddenly he shows up, his book shows up, and half the world follows after, zooms in and backs his book... then walks away without a second glance. He's the reason they're there, why not? It just might seem to some who have scrabbled and fought and clawed and messaged everything that moves and breathes, in an attempt to get their work read, that Klazart is taking an unfair advantage. He's perfectly at liberty to invite anyone he chooses, and he has. I sincerely hope that some of you take advantage and have some fun in there, because it is quite fun, and there are some seriously wicked books too.
This will probably sound a little odd, but I think Klazart hasn't really witnessed just how savage the battle for the ED can get, and he's been a little naiive in thinking that because some of the folk on there are relatively old, that they're not going to be every bit as trollish as the young spoiling for a battle. We've got trolls a-plenty, and some really nasty ones too!
I agree with you on all these points. If Klazart had worded his message better, I think he would have saved himself a lot of trouble.
Still, competition brings out the best in people, and for some people their "best" is not very substantial.
Edit: btw I will read your books at some point in the future, though I'm not certain when I will find the time as I've been recommended a lot of books since finding the site.
Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
Do you believe that this is the reason for the outcry in general?
I know I spent the first three months doing some serious reading and backing, and participating in the forums until I was nearly cross-eyed. I made some great friends, but the site started to down turn round about November. The fight for the Editor's Desk is borderline something... (something really nasty). Some of the forum threads got really vicious. Makes what we've seen here so far seem quite tame actually, and December and January were basically bananas. Quite a few of the old guard started to pull back big time from the site. Some people I have got to know well don't want to have anything to do with the site anymore because it's become the beast that consumes.
Then suddenly there's a new game in town, and fair dos... Klazart's is a spectacular. No reason why he shouldn't invite his existing fanbase to vote... why the hell not? I know I would if I had his numbers. I think the mistake that he inadvertently made was not mentioning the suggestion that folk might like to take a look at some other stuff while they were in there voting for his work. Something that some of our more trollish members have very swiftly latched on to. He's not cheating, and it isn't his fault that Auth's server is basically two tin cans with a piece of string between them. But suddenly he shows up, his book shows up, and half the world follows after, zooms in and backs his book... then walks away without a second glance. He's the reason they're there, why not? It just might seem to some who have scrabbled and fought and clawed and messaged everything that moves and breathes, in an attempt to get their work read, that Klazart is taking an unfair advantage. He's perfectly at liberty to invite anyone he chooses, and he has. I sincerely hope that some of you take advantage and have some fun in there, because it is quite fun, and there are some seriously wicked books too.
This will probably sound a little odd, but I think Klazart hasn't really witnessed just how savage the battle for the ED can get, and he's been a little naiive in thinking that because some of the folk on there are relatively old, that they're not going to be every bit as trollish as the young spoiling for a battle. We've got trolls a-plenty, and some really nasty ones too!
I agree with you on all these points. If Klazart had worded his message better, I think he would have saved himself a lot of trouble.
Still, competition brings out the best in people, and for some people their "best" is not very substantial.
I find this absolutely hilarious, because the whole idea of getting a book in front of an editor is precisely so that he can word his message better. Oh, the irony.
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
Note that he did not quote a wiki, but that he linked to it.
I cede the point, but it's still Wiki....
In fairness, try finding an accurate article in Encyclopaedia Britannica on Internet Trolls.
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
Note that he did not quote a wiki, but that he linked to it.
I cede the point, but it's still Wiki....
In fairness, try finding an accurate article in Encyclopaedia Britannica on Internet Trolls.
Oh wait there isn't one,
I was going to use the urban dictionary, but decided not to.
Auth's been skidding down the slippery slope for months, this has just precipitated the slide. It's easy not to take it seriously when you're not personally involved and haven't invested a great deal of time and effort in something... I am (and have), so I will continue to take it seriously, quite a lot was riding on it. Never mind, major re-think in progress.
Do you believe that this is the reason for the outcry in general?
I know I spent the first three months doing some serious reading and backing, and participating in the forums until I was nearly cross-eyed. I made some great friends, but the site started to down turn round about November. The fight for the Editor's Desk is borderline something... (something really nasty). Some of the forum threads got really vicious. Makes what we've seen here so far seem quite tame actually, and December and January were basically bananas. Quite a few of the old guard started to pull back big time from the site. Some people I have got to know well don't want to have anything to do with the site anymore because it's become the beast that consumes.
Then suddenly there's a new game in town, and fair dos... Klazart's is a spectacular. No reason why he shouldn't invite his existing fanbase to vote... why the hell not? I know I would if I had his numbers. I think the mistake that he inadvertently made was not mentioning the suggestion that folk might like to take a look at some other stuff while they were in there voting for his work. Something that some of our more trollish members have very swiftly latched on to. He's not cheating, and it isn't his fault that Auth's server is basically two tin cans with a piece of string between them. But suddenly he shows up, his book shows up, and half the world follows after, zooms in and backs his book... then walks away without a second glance. He's the reason they're there, why not? It just might seem to some who have scrabbled and fought and clawed and messaged everything that moves and breathes, in an attempt to get their work read, that Klazart is taking an unfair advantage. He's perfectly at liberty to invite anyone he chooses, and he has. I sincerely hope that some of you take advantage and have some fun in there, because it is quite fun, and there are some seriously wicked books too.
This will probably sound a little odd, but I think Klazart hasn't really witnessed just how savage the battle for the ED can get, and he's been a little naiive in thinking that because some of the folk on there are relatively old, that they're not going to be every bit as trollish as the young spoiling for a battle. We've got trolls a-plenty, and some really nasty ones too!
I agree with you on all these points. If Klazart had worded his message better, I think he would have saved himself a lot of trouble.
Still, competition brings out the best in people, and for some people their "best" is not very substantial.
Edit: btw I will read your books at some point in the future, though I'm not certain when I will find the time as I've been recommended a lot of books since finding the site.
Actually, having listened to the YouTube vid now (I couldn't access it before), even more fair dos, Klazart DOES mention that folk might like to take a look at some of the other stuff on there. And guys, honestly, we really would like you to take a read!
I do think that the fundamental problem that Klazart faces is that he is coming up against the savage competition which only gets worse as the month end approaches. Hopefully this will calm down and sort itself out.
Someone mentioned corporate website... as far as we've been able to ascertain, there is a god... he's one bloke, and he is the unlucky soul who gets inundated... (can we say cheap??) so he might be feeling a tad under siege tomorrow morning!
On March 23 2009 08:50 fight_or_flight wrote: I'm not saying you shouldn't take your website seriously, or the time spend in your community. What I'm saying is that people are being "hostile" because they get a reaction out of it. When you take people comments seriously, you are simply encouraging them to keep it up. Commonly this is known as "trolling".
edit: also, many people here have very diverse interests. If you scroll down a little bit here you can see some of the categories of people's interests. A lot of people would be interested in reading books on your website. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
But please, I beg... don't quote Wiki..... please....
Note that he did not quote a wiki, but that he linked to it.
I cede the point, but it's still Wiki....
In fairness, try finding an accurate article in Encyclopaedia Britannica on Internet Trolls.
Oh wait there isn't one,
I know... but I also know from personal experience (okay I shouldn't mock, but it's in my nature to do so...) that some Wiki entries have been created by not particularly intelligent beings with time on their hands, ten functioning digits and a keyboard... I also cede that this is not true of all of Wiki... but this problem has made me a trifle wary of research which contains Wiki links.
wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
Hahahahahahah. Getting my popcorn and increasing F5 speed.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
klazart fans: the high society of youtube, i can't believe the authonomy site didn't accept you guys with open arms
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: Wow I cant believe this shit. Seriously, Tasteless>Artosis>Chill. I've been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash.The reason why people follow Klazart and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators, just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro doesn't mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. iNcontrol said something about Klazart sounds fucking nerdy, and I've heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards Klazart.. Ain't you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show, gg fucking loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. I'm probably going get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
Translated for those that speak English.
Also last time I checked, Tasteless hasn't created a flame war on a book website like Klazart, mainly because Nick hasn't written a book.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
If you do get banned for this, it will probably be because of personal attacks, not your opinion about commentators. Would sc2gg accept you calling another member a "fukn loser" [sic], and a "fat nerd", who "mak[es] us sc players look bad"?
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
Psst...dude...there are other people from other websites reading this thread...
You're making TL look bad -.-
Seriously what kind of garbage was that? Stop denigrating the SC community with garbage posts that aren't even on topic.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
There is a reason why 90% of SC players play Fastest/BGH/UMS maps exclusively, there is a reason why soldiers die off in Iraq before they can legally drink a beer back home, there is a reason Christianity was developed, there is a reason George W. Bush was RE-elected as president, and this one reason is that at least 90% of the literate human population are complete morons and choose sub-standard products because they don't know the difference and are wooed by flashy bangs and fireworks.
In this case, it's Klaz's animated and dedicated style of commentating which is kind of like the concept that if you talk louder more people will listen to you, which is relatively true. However, if what you have to say about the game is simply wrong or is inaccurate at least, then that person and their followers are like the 7th Day Adventists, which sold all their property and divorced their wives and sat naked on a rooftop somewhere waiting for the rapture just because a person said it was coming. In other words, you just proved to everyone through your shit grammar and uninformed opinion that you are a dumbass who will follow the guy who shouts the loudest, even if what he says is a lie.
Quality of commentator is a mix of several attributes, yes, but accuracy and a sufficient level of game knowledge are a necessity which Klazart lacks.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
On March 23 2009 10:44 Restoration wrote: wow i cant believe this shit.. seriously ... Tasteless>Artosis>Chill ive been around the scene for a long time Artosis and chill are just trash reason why people follow klaz and the sc2gg because they are real good commentators just because a bunch of washed up sc players still trying to act like their pro dont mean shit.. Tasteless is ok but he has nothing on sc2gg commentators. and incontrol said something about klaz sounds fukn nerdy.. and ive heard nothing but unjustified negativity from him towards klaz. aint you that fat nerd on that cheesy gaming demoting reality show gg fukn loser thanks for making us sc players look bad. im problaby gunna get banned for this. good this is like my first post ever on this site ive had the profile for about a year.
I feel the need to join with the quoting of this guy.
Authonomy is hilarious. I was one of the first to back klazarts books and have risen to #3 talent spotter rating, giving my vote more power I think. Since yesterday I have gotten over 10 PM's of people begging me to read their book.
Wow, I can't believe all you guys don't like Klazart. I always thought his voice was awesome and is one of the reasons I listen to him. And it's so awesome hearing him say like 10 words in one second when there is something interesting on the screen. A commentator is supposed to be animated and that's part of what makes SC games entertaining.
On March 23 2009 11:13 Hithran wrote: Authonomy is hilarious. I was one of the first to back klazarts books and have risen to #3 talent spotter rating, giving my vote more power I think. Since yesterday I have gotten over 10 PM's of people begging me to read their book.
I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a literary forum has poor algorithms. Not enough math majors behind the curtain, lol.
On March 23 2009 11:13 Hithran wrote: Authonomy is hilarious. I was one of the first to back klazarts books and have risen to #3 talent spotter rating, giving my vote more power I think. Since yesterday I have gotten over 10 PM's of people begging me to read their book.
No wonder people are so upset. I'm starting to think that there really is cut-throat competition over there. I made a single post on that site and two people PMed me wanting me to back their books.
On March 23 2009 11:15 Echo515 wrote: Wow, I can't believe all you guys don't like Klazart. I always thought his voice was awesome and is one of the reasons I listen to him. And it's so awesome hearing him say like 10 words in one second when there is something interesting on the screen. A commentator is supposed to be animated and that's part of what makes SC games entertaining.
I think Klazart is a great commentator.
The thing is, Klazart doesn't really offer much (to me, I can't speak for others) other than his voice. Sure he's animated, but he's not as animated as the MBC/OGN commentators, and he doesn't offer much in the way of information. Because I know the basics of starcraft, I get more out of the MBC/OGN commentators. Plus, if you listen to the original Korean, you can hear the unit sounds, which you can't hear with the English dubbed commentaries.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
There is a reason why 90% of SC players play Fastest/BGH/UMS maps exclusively, there is a reason why soldiers die off in Iraq before they can legally drink a beer back home, there is a reason Christianity was developed, there is a reason George W. Bush was RE-elected as president, and this one reason is that at least 90% of the literate human population are complete morons and choose sub-standard products because they don't know the difference and are wooed by flashy bangs and fireworks.
In this case, it's Klaz's animated and dedicated style of commentating which is kind of like the concept that if you talk louder more people will listen to you, which is relatively true. However, if what you have to say about the game is simply wrong or is inaccurate at least, then that person and their followers are like the 7th Day Adventists, which sold all their property and divorced their wives and sat naked on a rooftop somewhere waiting for the rapture just because a person said it was coming. In other words, you just proved to everyone through your shit grammar and uninformed opinion that you are a dumbass who will follow the guy who shouts the loudest, even if what he says is a lie.
Quality of commentator is a mix of several attributes, yes, but accuracy and a sufficient level of game knowledge are a necessity which Klazart lacks.
You must misread my post. Sorry it must be the bad grammar? Yes english is not my native language nor is it my forte. I never said I was a Klazart fan. I watched a few of his videos so I do understand why people like him. If you read at the bottom I enjoy tasteless artosis and klazart. And when you say scream the loudest do you mean that literally? Cuz Tasteless can scream pretty loud himself. And i never meant to talk shit about tasteless in anyway. I did so just to prove to incontrol that not even his #1 commentator is perfect. If you judge some1's intelligence base on their grammar then you are truly a dumbass urself.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
There is a reason why 90% of SC players play Fastest/BGH/UMS maps exclusively, there is a reason why soldiers die off in Iraq before they can legally drink a beer back home, there is a reason Christianity was developed, there is a reason George W. Bush was RE-elected as president, and this one reason is that at least 90% of the literate human population are complete morons and choose sub-standard products because they don't know the difference and are wooed by flashy bangs and fireworks.
In this case, it's Klaz's animated and dedicated style of commentating which is kind of like the concept that if you talk louder more people will listen to you, which is relatively true. However, if what you have to say about the game is simply wrong or is inaccurate at least, then that person and their followers are like the 7th Day Adventists, which sold all their property and divorced their wives and sat naked on a rooftop somewhere waiting for the rapture just because a person said it was coming. In other words, you just proved to everyone through your shit grammar and uninformed opinion that you are a dumbass who will follow the guy who shouts the loudest, even if what he says is a lie.
Quality of commentator is a mix of several attributes, yes, but accuracy and a sufficient level of game knowledge are a necessity which Klazart lacks.
You must misread my post. Sorry it must be the bad grammar? Yes english is not my native language nor is it my forte. I never said I was a Klazart fan. I watched a few of his videos so I do understand why people like him. If you read at the bottom I enjoy tasteless artosis and klazart. And when you say scream the loudest do you mean that literally? Cuz Tasteless can scream pretty loud himself. And i never meant to talk shit about tasteless in anyway. I did so just to prove to incontrol that not even his #1 commentator is perfect. If you judge some1's intelligence base on their grammar then you are truly a dumbass urself.
I don't see any part of that post which cannot be applied to every Klazart fan; whether or not you are one is entirely irrelevant. Of course I am not being literal, I think that is painfully obvious and your inability to catch onto this further instills suspicions of your inbred lineage and celery-like IQ. I judge "some1's" posts on how much effort they put into them to make them legible. If there is a low level of effort, the person doesn't value his own words enough to make them presentable, so I treat his words like shit. Overall, you have failed to counter a single comment I made, so it's best that you leave this discussion at this moment.
On March 23 2009 11:39 Pieguy314 wrote: lol we should just take the authonomy website by force, and start posting SC threads in there.
Why? It's not particularly funny, and we'd be damaging the hopes of a bunch of people. Also, there's a decent chance that too much TL traffic will knock out their webserver again. Did they ever do anything to us? No.
Stimulationii wrote: I'll be here to stay if Klazart doesn't get kicked off, if he isn't good enough for this site then I won't be wasting my time with elitists.
So you ARE a sycophant...
a what? ;-;!!... better pull up google to understand elitists put downs. =(
If you need to do that, perhaps you should spend more time reading books.
On March 23 2009 11:39 Pieguy314 wrote: lol we should just take the authonomy website by force, and start posting SC threads in there.
Why? It's not particularly funny, and we'd be damaging the hopes of a bunch of people. Also, there's a decent chance that too much TL traffic will knock out their webserver again. Did they ever do anything to us? No.
Your argument is weak and has convinced no one because it relies on... er... morality? LOL come on now it's the internets, who cares if they can't hit back, that's how it's been for years.
On March 23 2009 11:39 Pieguy314 wrote: lol we should just take the authonomy website by force, and start posting SC threads in there.
Why? It's not particularly funny, and we'd be damaging the hopes of a bunch of people. Also, there's a decent chance that too much TL traffic will knock out their webserver again. Did they ever do anything to us? No.
Your argument is weak and has convinced no one because it relies on... er... morality? LOL come on now it's the internets, who cares if they can't hit back, that's how it's been for years.
MAN THA TANX DROP DA BOMB TROLL TROLL TROLL HAMMA
And here i thought TL was less fucked-up than the rest of the internets.
On March 23 2009 12:04 Pieguy314 wrote: Do you know what effect Klazart would have if he asked TL, GG.net, and SC2gg altogether for support? holy shit.
Haha, judging by this thread, TL seems like it would leap in as anti-support. Not sure what stance GG.net would take (but who cares about them anyway).
On March 23 2009 11:39 Pieguy314 wrote: lol we should just take the authonomy website by force, and start posting SC threads in there.
Why? It's not particularly funny, and we'd be damaging the hopes of a bunch of people. Also, there's a decent chance that too much TL traffic will knock out their webserver again. Did they ever do anything to us? No.
Your argument is weak and has convinced no one because it relies on... er... morality? LOL come on now it's the internets, who cares if they can't hit back, that's how it's been for years.
MAN THA TANX DROP DA BOMB TROLL TROLL TROLL HAMMA
And here i thought TL was less fucked-up than the rest of the internets.
Where did you get that notion? Your argument is weak and has convinced no one because it relies on... er... your perception of a site you have 5 posts on? LOL come on now it's the home of SonuvBob and dronebabo, who cares if it seems less fucked-up, that's how it's been for years.
POST THA TROLL BAN THA NOOB HAMMA HAMMA HAMMA DROPPED
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
There is a reason why 90% of SC players play Fastest/BGH/UMS maps exclusively, there is a reason why soldiers die off in Iraq before they can legally drink a beer back home, there is a reason Christianity was developed, there is a reason George W. Bush was RE-elected as president, and this one reason is that at least 90% of the literate human population are complete morons and choose sub-standard products because they don't know the difference and are wooed by flashy bangs and fireworks.
In this case, it's Klaz's animated and dedicated style of commentating which is kind of like the concept that if you talk louder more people will listen to you, which is relatively true. However, if what you have to say about the game is simply wrong or is inaccurate at least, then that person and their followers are like the 7th Day Adventists, which sold all their property and divorced their wives and sat naked on a rooftop somewhere waiting for the rapture just because a person said it was coming. In other words, you just proved to everyone through your shit grammar and uninformed opinion that you are a dumbass who will follow the guy who shouts the loudest, even if what he says is a lie.
Quality of commentator is a mix of several attributes, yes, but accuracy and a sufficient level of game knowledge are a necessity which Klazart lacks.
You must misread my post. Sorry it must be the bad grammar? Yes english is not my native language nor is it my forte. I never said I was a Klazart fan. I watched a few of his videos so I do understand why people like him. If you read at the bottom I enjoy tasteless artosis and klazart. And when you say scream the loudest do you mean that literally? Cuz Tasteless can scream pretty loud himself. And i never meant to talk shit about tasteless in anyway. I did so just to prove to incontrol that not even his #1 commentator is perfect. If you judge some1's intelligence base on their grammar then you are truly a dumbass urself.
I don't see any part of that post which cannot be applied to every Klazart fan; whether or not you are one is entirely irrelevant. Of course I am not being literal, I think that is painfully obvious and your inability to catch onto this further instills suspicions of your inbred lineage and celery-like IQ. I judge "some1's" posts on how much effort they put into them to make them legible. If there is a low level of effort, the person doesn't value his own words enough to make them presentable, so I treat his words like shit. Overall, you have failed to counter a single comment I made, so it's best that you leave this discussion at this moment.
OF course I dont take this shit seriously enough to pour my soul into my post like you. I merely post to defend klazart because he didnt deserve that shit from incontrol. Klazart didn't do shit to him. I believe in having ur own opinion but i dont believe in degrading some1 who didnt do shit to you. Which is what you did to me. Of course I'm not saying it to cry about it. I could care less what you think about me. go live ur life. But for you to put so much "effort" into your post I think you take this more seriously than me. So yes i agree. I should leave this thread to avoid idiots like you that bash other ppl's post to look smarter with your "flawless" grammar. Yea my writing is nothing special but for you to attack me for that really show you are a low self esteem loser who take joy in trashing other ppl to boost up ur own self-esteem. end of dicussion. P.S I bet your next post will be epic. fill with poetic words that really express your high intelligence than mine.peace out
On March 22 2009 14:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote: [quote]
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Of course you have the right to your own opinion, but you coming in this thread trying to tell all Klazart fans that he suck is i think very disrespectful. If you dont like it then stfu and stop reading this thread or watch him.
There's a reason why people like watching Klazart. If you watch enough of his VODs and see pass his accent you'll see how entertaining he can be with his commentating. You have Tasteless as your best commentator because he's a white guy with no accent and hes your buddy? I watched Tasteless and to be honest hes not that great. His knowledge of the game might be better than Klazart but that's not what commentators are all about. Klazart at times can say very witty things and he's VERY good at killing downtime. I notice Tasteless talk only when he see something happening and when theres no action going on he mostly hum the word "uhmm uhmmm uhmmm" and then try to talk about his Pandabearguy. WTF That's ur #1 commentator?
Each commentator is unique. In ur list of criteria for a great commentator, apparently accent is top of that list. I have nothing against tasteless or any other commentators. I enjoy tasteless, artosis and klazart. Each of them have their own flaws and unique style of commentating.
There is a reason why 90% of SC players play Fastest/BGH/UMS maps exclusively, there is a reason why soldiers die off in Iraq before they can legally drink a beer back home, there is a reason Christianity was developed, there is a reason George W. Bush was RE-elected as president, and this one reason is that at least 90% of the literate human population are complete morons and choose sub-standard products because they don't know the difference and are wooed by flashy bangs and fireworks.
In this case, it's Klaz's animated and dedicated style of commentating which is kind of like the concept that if you talk louder more people will listen to you, which is relatively true. However, if what you have to say about the game is simply wrong or is inaccurate at least, then that person and their followers are like the 7th Day Adventists, which sold all their property and divorced their wives and sat naked on a rooftop somewhere waiting for the rapture just because a person said it was coming. In other words, you just proved to everyone through your shit grammar and uninformed opinion that you are a dumbass who will follow the guy who shouts the loudest, even if what he says is a lie.
Quality of commentator is a mix of several attributes, yes, but accuracy and a sufficient level of game knowledge are a necessity which Klazart lacks.
You must misread my post. Sorry it must be the bad grammar? Yes english is not my native language nor is it my forte. I never said I was a Klazart fan. I watched a few of his videos so I do understand why people like him. If you read at the bottom I enjoy tasteless artosis and klazart. And when you say scream the loudest do you mean that literally? Cuz Tasteless can scream pretty loud himself. And i never meant to talk shit about tasteless in anyway. I did so just to prove to incontrol that not even his #1 commentator is perfect. If you judge some1's intelligence base on their grammar then you are truly a dumbass urself.
I don't see any part of that post which cannot be applied to every Klazart fan; whether or not you are one is entirely irrelevant. Of course I am not being literal, I think that is painfully obvious and your inability to catch onto this further instills suspicions of your inbred lineage and celery-like IQ. I judge "some1's" posts on how much effort they put into them to make them legible. If there is a low level of effort, the person doesn't value his own words enough to make them presentable, so I treat his words like shit. Overall, you have failed to counter a single comment I made, so it's best that you leave this discussion at this moment.
OF course I dont take this shit seriously enough to pour my soul into my post like you. I merely post to defend klazart because he didnt deserve that shit from incontrol. Klazart didn't do shit to him. I believe in having ur own opinion but i dont believe in degrading some1 who didnt do shit to you. Which is what you did to me. Of course I'm not saying it to cry about it. I could care less what you think about me. go live ur life. But for you to put so much "effort" into your post I think you take this more seriously than me. So yes i agree. I should leave this thread to avoid idiots like you that bash other ppl's post to look smarter with your "flawless" grammar. Yea my writing is nothing special but for you to attack me for that really show you are a low self esteem loser who take joy in trashing other ppl to boost up ur own self-esteem. end of dicussion. P.S I bet your next post will be epic. fill with poetic words that really express your high intelligence than mine.peace out
rofl SO like i was goin to write like i normalee do which is like not rly forsed for me bt i decide try write like you and i reelize that if i rite like dis then its like i can say whatevr i wnt and it wll be no les dum than wat u rite nd no1 wil atck me 4 bein 2 smrt jst bcuz u chanje the topix to full grammer becuz u no dat opinions can b rong 2 liek if i say dat 'in mai opnin jews r scum nd hitler is da fuckin mang' it my opninn but i r rong amirite? saem consebt her, ur opninenfs is stoopid bcuz u dont kno cr@p abt tha gayme~
why so much hate anyways. No one is forcing people to listen to his commentary. He isnt commentating for gom or anything. He did great for himself in youtube and it is obviously helping the sc community by bringing newer players closer to the scene. And apparantly, his book is pretty good so its not like his just spamming crap on their site.
I really hope it helps Klazart and it gives authonomy writers a different perspective. Hopefully I didn't come of as conceited which is I always try to avoid but the phucking stuff just ooozes out of me; too many years being in critical care I guess..
They are officially fucked sad to say i feel kind of bad for them but they could have been more welcoming.
This is the fucking dumbest series of events ever. Anyway, isn't 4chan NOT supposed to be in the business of aimlessly invading other websites anymore?
They are officially fucked sad to say i feel kind of bad for them but they could have been more welcoming.
This is the fucking dumbest series of events ever. Anyway, isn't 4chan NOT supposed to be in the business of aimlessly invading other websites anymore?
Its kind of funny/ironic if they just had been more welcoming and encouraging of new suscribers to their site instead of being consumed by jealousy there would of been no tl thread and by extention no 4chan. They themselves have opened the floodgates.
Edit: I mean really people sometimes call TL moderators to harsh but look what would happen if they werent around <3 you guys!!!!!!!! Like I mean seriously the more I browse that site the more my heart beats in appreciation and fear of what could be.
Hoooooooooooly shit hahahahaha... Hot Bid, is that you?
Edit - just found page 6, roooooooooooooooofl
people there are actually reading his book and commenting on it
JasonDiggy wrote 13 hours ago Hi Nicholas. You claim to be intelligent, and I would like to believe you, but I read you book and it's filled with "faggot" this and "retarded" that. You also seem to have a big issue with being white and foreigners. None of this is very smart, and I'm sure you can see how it is offensive to most intelligent people. You can be better than this. You can be a leader.
Does anyone else find it hilarious if Lastshadow just happens to stumble upon his 'book' on authonomy? Highly unlikely unless someone points him towards that direction
Vineet said... The problem is that some of the "regulars" committed the cardinal sin of berating and stereotyping gamers. Apart from simply being rude, you just don't want to start a war with gamers, because, 1) They outnumber you, VASTLY, 2) They are relentless and will not stop 3) They are used to these kind of forum wars as they happen every day on many gaming forums. It's now gotten to the point, where Random people, who have nothing to do with me, or have no interest in helping me or my novel are going over to "troll" (create havoc) simply for their own perverse entertainment. Because they see a group of people who they consider uptight, who've slighted them(through generalisation), without provocation. These problems are easy to fix. All you need is.. a better server that can handle a decent number of users. 24/7 moderators, can be community members, who cost nothing, to keep the trolls and generally ill-mannered people in check. Obviously HC weren't prepared for a site with REAL popularity, because these are very obvious problems.
On March 22 2009 19:53 Spenguin wrote: omg he's indian!
xD lol
Just looking around on the authono. website, I think they went from like 200 to 1000 users in 2 days...
Yeah...once 4chan gets a hold of this kinda shit brewing.........downhill from there. Lets all just not give TL or for that matter any Starcraft sites a bad name
=]
edit: i f-ing ROFLED at "Klazart fans zergrushes authonomy"
First off... Authonomy isn't some forum created by writers, the maths belongs to Harper Collins.... which in turn belongs to the worldwide empire of Mr Rupert Murdoch... press baron amongst other things.... Server issues, not our problem. Theirs. Anyone assuming that a corporation actually gives a tinkers about anything go on a forum really needs to have a simple reality check. They have a bottom line, money. That's what they're about, and if the site causes them hassle and costs them profits, they'll just yank the plug.
Secondly, all that flame stuff? Wanting to crash the site because it would be pretty funny?? Doesn't that make you every bit as small-minded, cheap-shot and petty as those guys who were flaming at you? Some of us are willing to learn from Klazart's strategy.... and welcome folk who want to reciprocate... Not all of us want to treat you like lepers, so do us the courtesy of not assuming that, in the same way some of us do you guys the courtesy of assuming that you are intelligent, educated and creative people.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Tasteless is a great commentator who has gotten much better since he started commentating for the Star Invitational. I think Artosis is only good at replay analysis, otherwise he just sounds so bored and unenthusiastic. His dual commentaries are better though. Chill sounds so lazy when he commentates, boring. Klazart sounds annoying when he talks to fast but hes definetly better than chill or plexa. w/e everyone has to have they're say on this site.
Klazart is just a pure entertainment commentator (as are rise and cholera).
If you just want entertainment and don't care much for the nuances he, and the others, are great. If you want a good amount of knowledge and insight Tasteless/Artosis/Chill (and I'm sure some others) are on another level. I like these commentarys much better.
I like Klazarts commentarys but sometimes he has just very, very bad calls about things which are obvious, sometimes this really pisses me off (but rise is, for me, the unrivaled king of bad calls). If you don't have a real clue about what a player has in mind and are unable to *read* it from the game than just don't talk about it...
Its kind of sad how every single time a thread about klazart is posted here on TL, some hater will come out and criticize him or his commentaries. Not only that, there barely any sign of respect or appreciation for what he has done to the community. As mentioned before, a lot of people including me would not have known about this website if not for Klazart. His commentaries on Youtube are one of the best ways to reach out to the mass audience and advertise e-sports to them.
If you don't like him who gives a shit, just share it privately through pm or something. I'm sure TL welcomes new Starcraft fans to the website so that we can enjoy watching live Starcraft together, so lets just enjoy the Starcraft!
On March 23 2009 20:24 Dante08 wrote: Its kind of sad how every single time a thread about klazart is posted here on TL, some hater will come out and criticize him or his commentaries. Not only that, there barely any sign of respect or appreciation for what he has done to the community. As mentioned before, a lot of people including me would not have known about this website if not for Klazart. His commentaries on Youtube are one of the best ways to reach out to the mass audience and advertise e-sports to them.
If you don't like him who gives a shit, just share it privately through pm or something. I'm sure TL welcomes new Starcraft fans to the website so that we can enjoy watching live Starcraft together, so lets just enjoy the Starcraft!
If Klazart invites people who don't play SC and don't bother to know the difference between a 9 pool and a 12 pool, then the extra people probably aren't worth it.
On March 22 2009 14:44 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HOLY SHIT THAT VOICE IS KLAZART? WHY THE FUCK DOES ANYONE LIKE HIS COMMENTATING?
God damn it.. where is he from/ethnicity? What can explain that horrid voice?
Irish + Indian = ?
holy christ that makes so much sense.. IRISH INDIAN? WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? it is like a pink dolphin.. you just dont do that.
I don't know man, you don't know how much of a douche your comments came across to me, specially being American and nation that stands against ur very comment.
The U.K has always had an influx from the old commonwealth and old colonies.
How about German American, or Chinese Australian, or English Indian? Or German Turks or French Algerians? Or Jewish Iranians?
What's so strange? You know, with easy affordable transport between most countries in this planet. What century are you living in?
There is a ton of klazart related threads in Teamliquid. As if you had not heard his voice before today. I for one do not believe neither your outcry or surprise (no matter what you may claim). Why you don't like him is beyond me, but at least be honest about it or don't use him for entertainment cause all his done is contribute and add to our community.
I don't care if you think I am a douche. I don't care if you don't believe that I haven't heard him (that isn't relevant, had I heard him I could STILL have this reaction). "Being american" what? I don't give a fuck if I am Chinese and I don't like the color red.. I am just myself in this case and guess what? My opinion is shared so apparently it isn't so zany.
He over-pronounces a ton of shit and it sounds horrid. I love Day[9] but when he said "concave} in reference to the attack formation of hydralisks I knew I needed to poison his drink.
You sir, are retarded. Klazart is by far the best foreign commentater out there, besides Tasteless. What you think is irrelevant, the people have spoken (youtube / teamliquid fans who aren't fat fags)
Yes they have spoken and it goes Tasteless->Artosis->Chill->->->->->->->-> klazart.
The fact he has to get a huge army of fans on a non sc site like yt and is generally considered a 4th at best commentator on the flagship non korean sc site (tl.net) means something buddy.
Tasteless is a great commentator who has gotten much better since he started commentating for the Star Invitational. I think Artosis is only good at replay analysis, otherwise he just sounds so bored and unenthusiastic. His dual commentaries are better though. Chill sounds so lazy when he commentates, boring. Klazart sounds annoying when he talks to fast but hes definetly better than chill or plexa. w/e everyone has to have they're say on this site.
depends on what you value more in a commentary loud and clueless or reserved and knowledgeable
On March 23 2009 20:24 Dante08 wrote: Its kind of sad how every single time a thread about klazart is posted here on TL, some hater will come out and criticize him or his commentaries. Not only that, there barely any sign of respect or appreciation for what he has done to the community. As mentioned before, a lot of people including me would not have known about this website if not for Klazart. His commentaries on Youtube are one of the best ways to reach out to the mass audience and advertise e-sports to them.
If you don't like him who gives a shit, just share it privately through pm or something. I'm sure TL welcomes new Starcraft fans to the website so that we can enjoy watching live Starcraft together, so lets just enjoy the Starcraft!
If Klazart invites people who don't play SC and don't bother to know the difference between a 9 pool and a 12 pool, then the extra people probably aren't worth it.
more importantly hes incapable of teaching them the difference so hes not exactly useful as an introduction to the community.
What I find really interesting about this is the different takes people have on the situation.
Some members on authonomy are upset, because they have built up their little bit of fame in their small community and don't want to lose their precious rating. Others react really relaxed and think of the good things that storm of fans can bring the community. On the Klazart side of things there are quite a few mindless fanboys that would literally jump off a cliff if Klazart told them to. Then there are the intelligent fans of Klazart, some of which actualy *gasp* read the book and even understand the community of authonomy aswell. On the same train some trolls joined there too, trying to get some laughter out of it. Here on teamliquid we now have a discussion about commentators again. iNc for example just said that he does not like Klazarts voice (and insight?) and some Klazart fans got butthurt. On the other side we have bandwagon hate on Klaz aswell, which then results in 22 pages in like 30 hours.
However, for me, the most interesting take on the situation is the following:
On March 23 2009 00:09 MasterOfChaos wrote: Their codes should improve their rating function. The simplest solution to do that is include the duration of membership in the value of the rating. Remember when TL tried to upvote on digg? It failes among other reasons because digg's rating function is better.
On March 22 2009 15:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I don't think so. But why would I? Does he use a different voice?
Don't really want to aggitate this, but you would rather listen to someone who had a "good"(according to you) voice but shitty commentary as opposed to a "bad" voice but great commentary?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Artosis has an amazing radio voice AND is smart for the game. Tasteless is exciting and smart.. klazart is neither.. he is good for nubs but with a terrible voice. Can I not be critical of this? And I don't want to hear "critical -/= flaming" this is an internet forum.. we are gamers.. this isn't a town meeting where I need to resign my opinion to plastic bullshit.. I think his voice is garbage so I will literally say it.
I am just curious. It seems like your main criticism of Klazart is his horrible voice rather then his lack of in dept commentary. I personally dont see whats wrong with someone's voice, but I guess its because I grew up in a culture where everyone had very distinct and heavy accents.
And no, being critical is not flaming. I dont see that connection either.
edit: I dont believe its right to assume someone is an idiot because they have an accent. Now I know INC didn't exactly say this, but it seems like INC is making that assumption (to me).. Now if INC hated him for his commentaries, thats a different story. But I have reason to believe that INC has not heard Klazart's commentaries.
well you could argue that choosing to do something that is focused entirely on talking when you dont have a good voice is rather idiotic, but thats irrelevant because as you said inc never said he was an idiot. he just pointed out that he has a bad voice and doesnt know anything about starcraft.. and yet he devotes a great deal of time to talking about starcraft.
perhaps an analogy would make it clearer its like if zulu_nation8 were to go to college or something. thats just not something stupid people do, it would make no sense. this is kind of like that.
well you could argue that choosing to do something that is focused entirely on a game when you aren't that good relatively is rather idiotic
perhaps an analogy would make it clearer its like if a white guy drops out of high school and goes to korea to play starcraft when he has no realistic chance of doing anything significant... thats just not something smart people do. it would make no sense... ????
hate to break it to you, but if we are to believe you and klazart really is as bad as you say he is, you are the klazart of sc
Introducing more people to starcraft and letting them know about the cool korean starcraft is more important dam it -_- not teaching a noob a difference between 9 pool and 12 pool. That can be taught later
On March 23 2009 21:13 Dante08 wrote: Introducing more people to starcraft and letting them know about the cool korean starcraft is more important dam it -_- not teaching a noob a difference between 9 pool and 12 pool. That can be taught later
except for when those people take your word as gospel and dont progress beyond it and become eternal newbies who are convinced that they know what theyre talking about.
I thought maybe it was time for someone who's been on authonomy to come across to you and let you know that not everyone on authonomy is slagging off newcomers. What I would encourage you to do, if you have the time, is to look at other books that are on there, too, because I think you might enjoy them. I realise I am opening myself up to flaming here, but I hate artificial boundaries, and I severely dislike conflict at any level, because conflict causes wars, and wars are unnecessary.
Regardless of the merits (or not) of Klazart's book (and I haven't read it yet, because it's way down my queue for reading), come on over, engage in meaningful dialogue with the majority of the "established" users who welcome new blood (I think your site's etiquette reflects general standards of behaviour anywhere on fora).
@racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
On March 23 2009 21:33 CDRdude wrote: @racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
Hey. mate, I can't help it; it's in my nature, and it doesn't change the underlying meaning of my message. And thanks. I wish you luck with the classics. Try Ulysses; it took me a year. And after 27 years of Finnegans Wake, I'm still only on page 22 ;-) R
On March 23 2009 21:33 CDRdude wrote: @racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
Hey. mate, I can't help it; it's in my nature, and it doesn't change the underlying meaning of my message. And thanks. I wish you luck with the classics. Try Ulysses; it took me a year. And after 27 years of Finnegans Wake, I'm still only on page 22 ;-) R
I guess I should have added what they call me on authonomy - Sir Richard Plugalot. lol
On March 23 2009 21:33 CDRdude wrote: @racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
I've been poking my head around authonomy for a few hours and noticed that this structure of post is the norm there. Most book comments end with plugging their own book. Basically racps is just posting here like he would on authonomy, so we shouldn't get riled up about it. However, racps you should know that this kind of self-promotion is prohibited in the rules of TL.net
On March 23 2009 21:33 CDRdude wrote: @racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
I've been poking my head around authonomy for a few hours and noticed that this structure of post is the norm there. Most book comments end with plugging their own book. Basically racps is just posting here like he would on authonomy, so we shouldn't get riled up about it. However, racps you should know that this kind of self-promotion is prohibited in the rules of TL.net
On March 22 2009 14:41 HnR)Insane wrote: What I really want to hear is: Is his book good? Anyone read it yet?(
He's only put up the first few chapters over there. I read what he posted. He has an interesting story with interesting characters, but the manuscript needs some editing. Also some of his narrative passages are over written. These types of lapses are easily corrected once pointed out.
If you have a book in the works, Authonomy is an excellent place to workshop it. You can get some fine feedback from a huge range of readers.
I know it's fun, but I don't think there is any point giving those guys more reasons to hate "gamers." But if you really want to spam, please head over to the forums so I can read the critique being posted on the book itself.
P.s. If anyone feels like voting for me that would be great. Read the 4 chapters I put up and make up your own mind.
On March 23 2009 21:33 CDRdude wrote: @racps: I'm really glad that you're coming over here to welcome us to your community....but I couldn't help but notice that you spent half of your post plugging your books . In seriousness, congratulations on your written works so far, best of luck and all that, but I've never been a big fan of transparent plugs. There are too many classics out there that I still haven't read.
I've been poking my head around authonomy for a few hours and noticed that this structure of post is the norm there. Most book comments end with plugging their own book. Basically racps is just posting here like he would on authonomy, so we shouldn't get riled up about it. However, racps you should know that this kind of self-promotion is prohibited in the rules of TL.net
Then I will edit accordingly. R
Thank you. Oh, and welcome to TL.net! You'll find that this site is constantly active and many interesting threads come up.
I know it's fun, but I don't think there is any point giving those guys more reasons to hate "gamers." But if you really want to spam, please head over to the forums so I can read the critique being posted on the book itself.
P.s. If anyone feels like voting for me that would be great. Read the 4 chapters I put up and make up your own mind.
Is self-promotion prohibited by TL?
Within reason. Creating an account and immediately trying to profit from the TL user base is prohibited. An example of reasonable self-promotion is glider's videos.
I'm disappointed to see the sc community being so closed-minded about newcomers, Klaz's fans may not know the difference between a 9 and a 12 pool (note: most of them do), but don't forget that everyone started out that way once.
Klaz is doing you all a favor in helping this 10 years old game survive outside of Korea, whether you like and admit it or not.
On March 23 2009 21:21 racps wrote:(...) and I severely dislike conflict at any level, because conflict causes wars, and wars are unnecessary.
(Since you're open to flame L-O-L (laughing out loud) man, you have a long road ahead to become a writer, first get down the basics of life, go around with a notepad if that helps :D
Have to say, there are quite a few bitter and hypocritical people in authonomy, who suddenly got exposed from their little realms and cannot accept that there are always people out there who are better at things.
Endless entertainment for lurking when at work (and a forum like that is usually not blocked too!)
On March 22 2009 15:01 Tom Phoenix wrote: Well, to be fair, Klazart did not break any rules by doing what he did. The rules actually support the involvement of the author`s readership. But yes, the administrators probably never anticipated anything like this.
The premise of the book is actually quite interesting, since it touches upon the sensitive issue of conflict between India and Pakistan. So it might have potential.
While I am a fan of Klazart`s commentaries and will register and read what he has posted, I am only going to vote for his book if I genuinly will consider it good. As a prospective writer, I consider it my duty to evaluate Klazart`s work based on the quality of the work itself and not on his commentating reputation.
Tom,
Good luck with your writing. When you're ready, please post on Authonomy. You'll have to put up at least 10,000 words (most put up closer to 20,000 words to avoid being bumped when editing). Then join the Authonomy forums and introduce yourself. People who are interested in what you've written will read and constructively comment on your posted material.
Authonomy is set up so that you can easily edit your material. Thus, your story develops over time. It's a cool way to workshop new work.
When you post material on Authonomy, please feel free to message me (CarolinaAl on Authonomy). I'll give it a read and write a critique on it.
Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
On March 23 2009 22:32 538 wrote: I'm disappointed to see the sc community being so closed-minded about newcomers, Klaz's fans may not know the difference between a 9 and a 12 pool (note: most of them do), but don't forget that everyone started out that way once.
Klaz is doing you all a favor in helping this 10 years old game survive outside of Korea, whether you like and admit it or not.
On March 23 2009 21:21 racps wrote:(...) and I severely dislike conflict at any level, because conflict causes wars, and wars are unnecessary.
(Since you're open to flame L-O-L (laughing out loud) man, you have a long road ahead to become a writer, first get down the basics of life, go around with a notepad if that helps :D
Yeah, got loads of notebooks. Do you want me to transcribe them here? ;-) It's a concious decision to be a pacifist. That's my basic of life.
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
R
I say, good on him for getting his word out. Shame on the backers who didn't actually read his stuff. A bit more tolerance all round would be nice, altho it IS the internet.
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
R
Well I don't know what the written rule about spamming / self promotion is... but I definitely know the unwritten rule
On March 23 2009 22:32 538 wrote: I'm disappointed to see the sc community being so closed-minded about newcomers, Klaz's fans may not know the difference between a 9 and a 12 pool (note: most of them do), but don't forget that everyone started out that way once.
Klaz is doing you all a favor in helping this 10 years old game survive outside of Korea, whether you like and admit it or not.
On March 23 2009 21:21 racps wrote:(...) and I severely dislike conflict at any level, because conflict causes wars, and wars are unnecessary.
(Since you're open to flame L-O-L (laughing out loud) man, you have a long road ahead to become a writer, first get down the basics of life, go around with a notepad if that helps :D
Yeah, got loads of notebooks. Do you want me to transcribe them here? ;-) It's a concious decision to be a pacifist. That's my basic of life.
R
By all means, please don't. Obviously I wasnt critiquing your pacifism, but the fact that you managed to apply your ridicoulous generalization about conflicts of any level to this interforum debate, and you felt this was a real issue, and felt it was important to add! I suppose you don't dare having different opinions about anything in life, because that (erm... apparently) causes war. If so, my statement of "you have a long road ahead to become a writer" stands. Can you make bread and butter without announcing "War is bad, okay?" :D
(All of this only applies if you're over... 14, otherwise you'll grow out of it, don't worry.)
On March 23 2009 23:08 racps wrote: What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
This is the only thread about it, so the view of the community is all right here.
But there is backstory, as well. Team Liquid and Klazart had a falling-out early last year about comments that TL staff posted about members of SC2GG, the site where Klazart posts his commentaries. There is only a little bit of bad blood left between the two sites but you should take that little bit into account when reading this thread.
I think generally the feeling is one of bemused neutrality. And also, it's not a "coup" that Klazart pulled, unless a coup can be accidental. If your site is designed so that an influx of internet fans can rush in and upvote a manuscript to success, then it's not a well-designed site.
EDIT: I had to lol at one of the comments Klazart got from a regular of the site: "First off, I hoped 'Lesser Sins' would be truly awful. Alas, it isn't. You have the makings of a good story here."
On March 23 2009 22:32 538 wrote: I'm disappointed to see the sc community being so closed-minded about newcomers, Klaz's fans may not know the difference between a 9 and a 12 pool (note: most of them do), but don't forget that everyone started out that way once.
Klaz is doing you all a favor in helping this 10 years old game survive outside of Korea, whether you like and admit it or not.
On March 23 2009 21:21 racps wrote:(...) and I severely dislike conflict at any level, because conflict causes wars, and wars are unnecessary.
(Since you're open to flame L-O-L (laughing out loud) man, you have a long road ahead to become a writer, first get down the basics of life, go around with a notepad if that helps :D
Yeah, got loads of notebooks. Do you want me to transcribe them here? ;-) It's a concious decision to be a pacifist. That's my basic of life.
R
By all means, please don't. Obviously I wasnt critiquing your pacifism, but the fact that you managed to apply your ridicoulous generalization about conflicts of any level to this interforum debate, and you felt this was a real issue, and felt it was important to add! I suppose you don't dare having different opinions about anything in life, because that (erm... apparently) causes war. If so, my statement of "you have a long road ahead to become a writer" stands. Can you make bread and butter without announcing "War is bad, okay?" :D
(All of this only applies if you're over... 14, otherwise you'll grow out of it, don't worry.)
I do disagree with lots of people, but disagreement isn't conflict, and certainly not violent conflict. R
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
R
Well I don't know what the written rule about spamming / self promotion is... but I definitely know the unwritten rule
But hot_bid's and klaz's links to their books on this thread con't count as self-promotion? R
On March 22 2009 19:34 Orbifold wrote: I was unaware of the site before Klazart's video, but its the kind of thing I would be into participating. The way the site's community reacted was so hateful and closed minded that I think I'll just take a pass though.
Hi Orbifold,
Please stop by Authonomy in a few days (it's down for 'Maintenance' right now). Why? Because the people who populate the Authonomy forums are just a fraction of the people who are busy reading and critiquing other people's works. That's not meant to deride people who prefer to spend some time on the Authonomy forums, it's just meant to point out that there are many others on Authonomy who you haven't heard from.
I've been on Authonomy since November and I've found the people there to be friendly and helpful and serious about improving their/others' writing.
On March 23 2009 20:59 Klaz wrote: Personally, as far as commentary goes,
I really enjoyed Chill and Co's commentary on F91 vs Idra. Much fun!
If this is meant to be a burn, my respect for Klazart just went way, way up.
no doubt it was he doesnt react kindly to the idea that he should know something about the game hes talking about thats why he left tl in the first place isnt it?
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
R
Well I don't know what the written rule about spamming / self promotion is... but I definitely know the unwritten rule
But hot_bid's and klaz's links to their books on this thread con't count as self-promotion? R
hot_bid's "book" is a joke. It's a compilation of forum posts by a notorious hacker.
And obviously Klazart posting his book is very relevant to this thread.
On March 23 2009 02:22 InToTheWannaB wrote: Seems so...kind of a shame. They had some really interesting unpublished books. I thought it was a pretty cool site.
Hi InToTheWannaB,
There are excerpts (minimum of 10,000 words) of thousands of unpublished books on Authonomy. Fiction and non-fiction. Poetry and short story collections, too. All genres from children's stories to erotica. All searchable by genre. Some authors have uploaded their entire books. It's a wonderful place for readers . . . and writers.
correct me if i'm wrong, isn't klaz the first to started pulling korean videos do english comment on them and then post them on youtube, it was because of that influence motrap, digity, cholera followed. Before klaz came along i was only watching Jon747's korean version.
On March 23 2009 23:00 motbob wrote: Just so you guys know, there is a LOT of stigma against self-promotion on TL. And this isn't limited to newcomers by any means. Recently, a really popular and accomplished member of the community named Tasteless posted an OP with a link to a blog somewhere else. The thread was closed, with the mod saying "TL is not your personal advertising site" or something like that.
So ya, it's not just you. Any of your own material that you link to pretty much has to be relevant to the discussion at hand.
I have a question then; well, two, actually:
The rules when you log in only speak about spamming not self-promotion - is there a difference? What's the general view of the community here on klaz's marketing coup?
R
Well I don't know what the written rule about spamming / self promotion is... but I definitely know the unwritten rule
But hot_bid's and klaz's links to their books on this thread con't count as self-promotion? R
hot_bid's "book" is a joke. It's a compilation of forum posts by a notorious hacker.
And obviously Klazart posting his book is very relevant to this thread.
Hey now, Nicholas T. Shadow worked for years refining those strategies, you don't call someone's life work "a joke" without good reason. Cartography and tan-olive skin are skills that one does not simply pick up in a day.
Regardless, the minds behind "Shadow Rush" have decided it's too harmful to the site and have taken it down at Klazart's request. Not sure if it'll really keep his book from deletion, but every little bit helps amirite?
I feel bad for all the people that were unable to read "Shadow Rush", especially the 10,000 word third chapter titled "500 of my posts in a row".
On March 23 2009 23:57 racps wrote: By implication, K's relevant posting of his link to his book on authonomy makes any other link to authonomy also relevant.
The thread is about Klazart's book. That's why when he linked to it, it was relevant.
If your logic is correct, it would mean that the following example is also true: Let's say there is a thread on Team Liquid about the 2008 election. If I link a story that is on CNN.com that deals with the election, then you have the right to post any story on CNN.com that you wish, no matter how far away from the subject matter.
Clearly, the above example is laughably false. So, too, is your logic faulty.
On March 23 2009 23:59 rei wrote: correct me if i'm wrong, isn't klaz the first to started pulling korean videos do english comment on them and then post them on youtube, it was because of that influence motrap, digity, cholera followed. Before klaz came along i was only watching Jon747's korean version.
On March 23 2009 23:57 racps wrote: By implication, K's relevant posting of his link to his book on authonomy makes any other link to authonomy also relevant.
The thread is about Klazart's book. That's why when he linked to it, it was relevant.
If your logic is correct, it would mean that the following example is also true: Let's say there is a thread on Team Liquid about the 2008 election. If I link a story that is on CNN.com that deals with the election, then you have the right to post any story on CNN.com that you wish, no matter how far away from the subject matter.
Clearly, the above example is laughably false. So, too, is your logic faulty.
Actually, I don't think my logic is faulty. If we take the election thread example, and someone wanted to illustrate misrepresentation by cnn of the election by giving an example of another way in which cnn had misrepresented a different story, that would be acceptable.
If no deviations from the total core of a thread are allowed, then comments about k's commentaries and links to them or links to k's commentaries or off-thread comments on those commentaries are similarly not allowed.
On March 23 2009 23:57 racps wrote: By implication, K's relevant posting of his link to his book on authonomy makes any other link to authonomy also relevant.
The thread is about Klazart's book. That's why when he linked to it, it was relevant.
If your logic is correct, it would mean that the following example is also true: Let's say there is a thread on Team Liquid about the 2008 election. If I link a story that is on CNN.com that deals with the election, then you have the right to post any story on CNN.com that you wish, no matter how far away from the subject matter.
Clearly, the above example is laughably false. So, too, is your logic faulty.
Actually, I don't think my logic is faulty. If we take the election thread example, and someone wanted to illustrate misrepresentation by cnn of the election by giving an example of another way in which cnn had misrepresented a different story, that would be acceptable.
If no deviations from the total core of a thread are allowed, then comments about k's commentaries and links to them or links to k's commentaries or off-thread comments on those commentaries are similarly not allowed.
R
There's no need to sign your posts, your username is at the top of the post.
Correct? I want to seen some evidence in how wrong I am
Well the first one that was notable on youtube was Superiorwolf who was later overshadowed by Klaz because he was able to produce more commentaries and had much more enthusiasm which people really liked. He was probably the one that got the ball rolling really.
On March 23 2009 23:59 rei wrote: correct me if i'm wrong, isn't klaz the first to started pulling korean videos do english comment on them and then post them on youtube, it was because of that influence motrap, digity, cholera followed. Before klaz came along i was only watching Jon747's korean version.
You are wrong hahahaha
He might not have been the first one but he defenetly is the most succesfull one, hes getting alot of views on his commentated videos and is the reason alot of people including me got into starcraft.
I wanna know why everyone seems to dislike Klaz, i mean hes contributed alot to sc and the esports scene. Why do people seem to have some kind of beef with him?
Can people stop arguing about whether they like Klazart's commentary or not?
This thread is to discuss his book and authonomy.com, please stay on topic. If we head down the "why do people hate Klaz?" road, the result will be lots of bans and closings. Let's just say people have a lot of different opinions on which commentators are good and leave it at that.
Consider this an official warning, 2 day temp bans for people that keep bringing this up.
On March 24 2009 00:47 Hot_Bid wrote: Can people stop arguing about whether they like Klazart's commentary or not?
This thread is to discuss his book and authonomy.com, please stay on topic. If we head down the "why do people hate Klaz?" road, the result will be lots of bans and closings. Let's just say people have a lot of different opinions on which commentators are good and leave it at that.
<font size=3>Consider this an official warning, 2 day temp bans for people that keep bringing this up.</font>
On March 23 2009 23:59 rei wrote: correct me if i'm wrong, isn't klaz the first to started pulling korean videos do english comment on them and then post them on youtube, it was because of that influence motrap, digity, cholera followed. Before klaz came along i was only watching Jon747's korean version.
You are wrong hahahaha
He might not have been the first one but he defenetly is the most succesfull one, hes getting alot of views on his commentated videos and is the reason alot of people including me got into starcraft.
I wanna know why everyone seems to dislike Klaz, i mean hes contributed alot to sc and the esports scene. Why do people seem to have some kind of beef with him?
Right, so he wasn't the first. That was the question.
Thank you to Hot_Bid and co for taking down Shadow_Rush. The authonomy site seems to be dying horribly atm I actually feel pretty bad for this, was never my intention... oh well.
Klazart, I appreciate you had the best of intentions but you should have foreseen this. Telling all your Youtube fans to visit a site that has problems as is isn't going to have a favourable result.
Chill - Well, I dunno, I've never managed to break a site before. I'm not great technically, so it never occurred to me that this could actually happen
Hot_Bid is right though, seeing what's happened, I'd prolly do it a LOT differently if I had a redo, but hey
Also.... does any one find it interesting that while the site appears to be broken, the advertisements for Bookarmy and the Sony Reader are working just fine?
On March 24 2009 01:53 Klaz wrote: Thank you to Hot_Bid and co for taking down Shadow_Rush. The authonomy site seems to be dying horribly atm I actually feel pretty bad for this, was never my intention... oh well.
@Klaz, your book excerpt did get some sincere critiques from Authonomy users. Were they helpful?
Hot_Bid - not my doing, I don't usually do the syncs/uploading. At this point I'm not sure it will make a difference because their site is getting tons of users from everywhere that it just can't cope. I'll look into it though, thanks for pointing this out.
oh wait never mind, i remember now I added a plug at the end of the commentary, but that was before I knew the website was dying..... ugh... what a mess....
On March 24 2009 02:22 Klaz wrote: oh wait never mind, i remember now I added a plug at the end of the commentary, but that was before I knew the website was dying..... ugh... what a mess....
Dear Klaz,
Regardless of the merits of your book (or not; I haven't read it yet, because I have tons queued up to read first), I think your presence has been useful insofar as it has highlighted a couple of issues:
a) lack of futureproofing of authonomy (it was creaking before you came along); b) lack of real commitment to authonomy by HC (it will be interesting to see what they say about your book if it does make the top5); c) lack of innovative strategy for authonomy by HC; d) ease of manipulability of the current ranking systems on there.
I do think it's slightly disingenous of you to say you couldn't foresee what effect your fans would have on the site (and you do have a lot of fans, because from what I can see, many people see you as very committed on other starcraft forums). However, this is immaterial to the fact that I hope something new for authonomy will come out of this.
On March 24 2009 02:22 Klaz wrote: oh wait never mind, i remember now I added a plug at the end of the commentary, but that was before I knew the website was dying..... ugh... what a mess....
Dear Klaz,
Regardless of the merits of your book (or not; I haven't read it yet, because I have tons queued up to read first), I think your presence has been useful insofar as it has highlighted a couple of issues:
a) lack of futureproofing of authonomy (it was creaking before you came along); b) lack of real commitment to authonomy by HC (it will be interesting to see what they say about your book if it does make the top5); c) lack of innovative strategy for authonomy by HC; d) ease of manipulability of the current ranking systems on there.
I do think it's slightly disingenous of you to say you couldn't foresee what effect your fans would have on the site (and you do have a lot of fans, because from what I can see, many people see you as very committed on other starcraft forums). However, this is immaterial to the fact that I hope something new for authonomy will come out of this.
Best regards,
R
Look at most professional websites, especially social networking ones, youtube, facebook, twitter, etc etc etc. Look at TEAMLIQUID where we are now. They have so many more users than authonomy yet function perfectly fine. How could I predict that a website run by professionals as a business would have less bandwidth than most amateur gaming forums out there? I honestly don't have as many fans as you seem to think I do.
Authonomy is an experiment, and a very insignificant part of the Publisher's business. It's not Facebook or Twitter, and if it fails or makes them look stupid...
But I hope it gets fixed, and I sincerely hope you're still there when it is, Klaz.
On March 24 2009 02:40 zulu_nation8 wrote: so klaz can you steal a game from a D level player now
zulu did you find anything better to do with your time than write huge whiny blogs about youtube commentators
I don't think I did because I ended up writing those blogs, I'm not confident though. I might've found something better to do and didn't write those blogs but if that was true, how would you know about them?
Btw I was asked by diggity to write the first one, so if it's anyone's fault for the most tragic day in klazart fans' lives it's diggity's, I was just the messenger.
"We wanted to give you a quick update following the excitement that occurred over the weekend. (Yes, we followed it too.)
48 hours ago none of us had heard of Starcraft. That was before Klazart posted his book on the site and started to invite support from the Starcraft community. His efforts were spectacularly successful and he has reaped the rewards of these newcomers’ support. We do not consider his actions to be breaching any site rules and his book will not be removed by us. Unfortunately the subsequent behaviour of a very small number of individuals – both his supporters and detractors – was considerably more questionable and in many cases was deeply offensive. This will not be tolerated: authonomy is for everyone. Please continue to use the ‘report abuse’ links to alert our moderators to any complaint.
Once again there has been much questioning of the book chart. We agree there is still room for improvement, but it is far from broken. We are willing to admit that the recent events have shown up real flaws in the algorithm behind the talent-spotter ranking. Some excellent suggestions have already been made and we’ll be considering these.
Finally, we need to apologise for the performance issues which are dogging the site at the moment. We appear to have a fault in our hosting infrastructure. It is not related to the activities at the weekend and we really should have more than enough capacity in the servers for the task at hand. We are investigating and service may be at erratic until this is resolved. Please bear with us on this one. We are making this a priority. "
They won't be taking down the book, and it's not my fault the website died.
Authonomy seems like a really awesome site. I'm really glad I found out about that site through this. Lots of really intelligent and well written stuff over there and overall a pretty chill group of people in the forums for the most part.
They seem to have very light forum moderation because the average user over there shouldn't need much moderation unlike sc communities which are a slightly different story, heh. Some of their members are saying it's a lose-lose situation. I see otherwise.
I think this whole ordeal has been very interesting, slightly funny, and a bit sad all at the same time. It's a shame a few people can't control themselves, that's all I'll say about that.
On March 24 2009 03:47 LuckyFool wrote: Authonomy seems like a really awesome site. I'm really glad I found out about that site through this. Lots of really intelligent and well written stuff over there and overall a pretty chill group of people in the forums for the most part.
They seem to have very light forum moderation because the average user over there shouldn't need much moderation unlike sc communities which are a slightly different story, heh. Some of their members are saying it's a lose-lose situation. I see otherwise.
I think this whole ordeal has been very interesting, slightly funny, and a bit sad all at the same time. It's a shame a few people can't control themselves, that's all I'll say about that.
Pretty much agreed.
This incident was silly but Klaz did nothing wrong and the site's moderators, light though they may be, responded well. I'm very glad to have found the site.
It was a very interesting affair overall - and there are some pretty interesting books on that website that definitely should be read, I recommend that people check it out.
I mean imagine us in their situation. Picture 800 new people registering accounts on TL to vote for something that we were all following and talking about for days and weeks beforehand. Overloading the site, flaming and causing general unrest.
I'd be pretty angry and freaked out about it too.
Maybe the reverse will be true for them, maybe some of them will discover the glory of sc and join TL!
Although I find it a little bit funny how they seem to think Klazart invited the support "the StarCraft community" - if only they knew how big StarCraft actually is.
On March 24 2009 05:13 maybenexttime wrote: Great that they've resolvd the whole ordeal.
Although I find it a little bit funny how they seem to think Klazart invited the support "the StarCraft community" - if only they knew how big StarCraft actually is.
Yep, makes you want to ask everyone you know to join that site and ruin everything they have ... for a second =p
There are some hilarious forum posts/threads over there at authonomy. I feel a slight urge to register and participate, read various books and comment on them. :D
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
A lot of people are angry, I guess I understand. They thought they had the system worked out, now it seems broken and all their effort seems to be for naught. I don't agree.
If they've been working on their books (as they say their real reason for sticking around is) then they have gained a lot and can continue to do so. One book over taking them in the rankings isn't going to destroy anything.
I think the thing that really kills them, is that they feel that popularity trumps merit. Well, I'd like to think I have merit. Only time will tell.
On March 24 2009 02:42 nttea wrote: I don't think authonomy would die because of this, would it? i mean it's just a temporary mess. It will calm down in a few days .
Folk are pulling out. The main problem is now one of perception. The attendant publicity and buzz surrounding this has made some people question how seriously their work is going to be taken if they remain associated with Authonomy. Getting published is tough. The story has become not about the writing, but about the fan base, and since Auth was on a slippery slope before, this has pushed it clean over the edge.
Before people get too excited, some of us were having concerns about the length of time we were on Auth, and what it was actually achieving by being involved. The system has been exposed, and that isn't actually that bad a thing. It's convinced some of us that our Auth time is over.
I intend pulling out in the next fortnight or so. This is not because of Klaz per se, but because now this has happened, it has highlighted the futility of expending a great deal more time on Auth. It's time for a new strategy.
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
If there is nothing anyone except HC can do to improve the site, then why complain/care in the first place? I don't know for how many people Klaz was the final straw but HC obviously needs the feedback of the community to make adjustments and improvements, whether these be by e-mail, forum post or simply leaving the site.
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
To be perfectly honest, a number of members from Authonomy seem to be pulling out or making decisions based upon bad opinions. For example, a lot of Authonomy members seem to just now be learning of 4chan. Just now learning of Anonymous (and using Wikipedia links while they're at it). Thinking that they're being hacked because the site was undergoing maintenance. This isn't the case, and such rationalizations are wrong. Klazart isn't part of Anonymous, and he isn't even from 4chan. When servers are upgraded, interesting things can happen. The work of Authonomy writers is being devalued, it's true, as are their rankings on that site. However, I think it's irrational for them to blow up because of that, never mind blame others. I agree with you, the rankings were flawed from the beginning, and Klazart was the one who exposed that. But this should not necessitate the rash and highly angry pulling out and rejection of events that have transpired by a good number of the authors. I honestly expected more from such individuals. Of course, there are the more level-headed among you too, and I mean no insult to them.
On March 24 2009 04:07 LuckyFool wrote: Oh and they really had it bad.
I mean imagine us in their situation. Picture 800 new people registering accounts on TL to vote for something that we were all following and talking about for days and weeks beforehand. Overloading the site, flaming and causing general unrest.
I'd be pretty angry and freaked out about it too.
Maybe the reverse will be true for them, maybe some of them will discover the glory of sc and join TL!
Imagine if Rekrul posted his "book" there...Christ that would be ridiculous.
Aside from being a comprehensive and almost infallible guide to the Shadow Rush, this book offers some fairly layered insight into the complex labyrinth of the human psyche. What is ostensibly a straightforward tutorial soon gives way to stunning depth, probing the very deepest chasms of human desperation.
The reader is taken on a harrowing journey inside the very nature of self delusion as it unfolds on the pages. It's soon very clear that pressure, and the shadow rush, can effect all our lives in ways we might never notice without the aid of this eerily prescient tome.
Affecting, immediate and important, Shadow Rush is not to be missed.
On March 24 2009 08:14 Mockingbird wrote: It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
I think a lot of your regulars have a misguided, naive view of how something that can only be described as a book popularity contest should function. It's a book popularity contest. It is really no different from any other popularity contests, no matter how much they want to believe otherwise. Of course, they might say that merit should be the only factor in determining what comprises a top ten list, but since when did that happen in the real world?
So your members have 2 choices: 1. Start slitting their wrists. 2. Get over it.
And it seems like the delusional people at that site have given up and started slitting their wrists.
On March 24 2009 08:14 Mockingbird wrote: It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
I think a lot of your regulars have a misguided, naive view of how something that can only be described as a book popularity contest should function. It's a book popularity contest. It is really no different from any other popularity contests, no matter how much they want to believe otherwise. Of course, they might say that merit should be the only factor in determining what comprises a top ten list, but since when did that happen in the real world?
So your members have 2 choices: 1. Start slitting their wrists. 2. Get over it.
And it seems like the disillusioned people at that site have given up and started slitting their wrists.
By "slitting their wrists," Mooga means "leaving/quitting/going elsewhere." But aside from that, I think he's largely right. Authonomy's members are largely misguided. They had no moderator, and it's not Klazart's fault there was no moderator. Who are they to blame? Gamers and trolls? Or the lack of moderation, and those behind such a lack?
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
To be perfectly honest, a number of members from Authonomy seem to be pulling out or making decisions based upon bad opinions. For example, a lot of Authonomy members seem to just now be learning of 4chan. Just now learning of Anonymous (and using Wikipedia links while they're at it). Thinking that they're being hacked because the site was undergoing maintenance. This isn't the case, and such rationalizations are wrong. Klazart isn't part of Anonymous, and he isn't even from 4chan. When servers are upgraded, interesting things can happen. The work of Authonomy writers is being devalued, it's true, as are their rankings on that site. However, I think it's irrational for them to blow up because of that, never mind blame others. I agree with you, the rankings were flawed from the beginning, and Klazart was the one who exposed that. But this should not necessitate the rash and highly angry pulling out and rejection of events that have transpired by a good number of the authors. I honestly expected more from such individuals. Of course, there are the more level-headed among you too, and I mean no insult to them.
To put it purely from my perspective. I've been there six months. I've made some really great friends. I've had a ball, read some fantastic books, and everything was going great until the realisation of the ED. October's Editor's Desk was the first sign that all was not well. November's was worse, December's was worse still. January's ED... positively psychotic. I hardly entered the site, I have enough hassle in rl, I don't need that kind of crap in my escape space.
Some of you who have signed up have experienced the Swoop. Bombarded with messages from eager beavers welcoming you to the site and oh by the way please read my book. Once the art of shamelessly plugging your book escaped form the forum... the slippery slope to freefall began. That was before Christmas. I was going to pull out in February. But something changed that, and I decided to stay for a while to bench test my collaboration novel.
My writing partner and I want our novel to do well... but it needs a fresh approach. Authonomy is more of the same. And my two other novels could use a fresh approach too. So I'm pulling out because this is the time to go. Klazart has highlighted the issues. But pulling out is my decision which I actually took almost three months ago. To stay would be a mistake.
On March 24 2009 08:14 Mockingbird wrote: It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
I think a lot of your regulars have a misguided, naive view of how something that can only be described as a book popularity contest should function. It's a book popularity contest. It is really no different from any other popularity contests, no matter how much they want to believe otherwise. Of course, they might say that merit should be the only factor in determining what comprises a top ten list, but since when did that happen in the real world?
So your members have 2 choices: 1. Start slitting their wrists. 2. Get over it.
And it seems like the disillusioned people at that site have given up and started slitting their wrists.
By "slitting their wrists," Mooga means "leaving/quitting/going elsewhere." But aside from that, I think he's largely right. Authonomy's members are largely misguided. They had no moderator, and it's not Klazart's fault there was no moderator. Who are they to blame? Gamers and trolls? Or the lack of moderation, and those behind such a lack?
It seems like most of them are leaving because they just found out how the system really works and because the site "didn't do anything about it." lol, I can't believe it really came as a surprise to them.
One of them left because she was appalled by the behavior of their own members (racist comments, personal attacks, etc...), but most of them left for the other reason.
Some threads are so ironic. Now klaz has stuffed the numbers up for them, they come out one by one re-iterating again and again saying that the numbers don't matter, it's about making friends etc. Funny how the same people get so bitter and angry over something they claim not to matter. Denial much.
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
To be perfectly honest, a number of members from Authonomy seem to be pulling out or making decisions based upon bad opinions. For example, a lot of Authonomy members seem to just now be learning of 4chan. Just now learning of Anonymous (and using Wikipedia links while they're at it). Thinking that they're being hacked because the site was undergoing maintenance. This isn't the case, and such rationalizations are wrong. Klazart isn't part of Anonymous, and he isn't even from 4chan. When servers are upgraded, interesting things can happen. The work of Authonomy writers is being devalued, it's true, as are their rankings on that site. However, I think it's irrational for them to blow up because of that, never mind blame others. I agree with you, the rankings were flawed from the beginning, and Klazart was the one who exposed that. But this should not necessitate the rash and highly angry pulling out and rejection of events that have transpired by a good number of the authors. I honestly expected more from such individuals. Of course, there are the more level-headed among you too, and I mean no insult to them.
To put it purely from my perspective. I've been there six months. I've made some really great friends. I've had a ball, read some fantastic books, and everything was going great until the realisation of the ED. October's Editor's Desk was the first sign that all was not well. November's was worse, December's was worse still. January's ED... positively psychotic. I hardly entered the site, I have enough hassle in rl, I don't need that kind of crap in my escape space.
Some of you who have signed up have experienced the Swoop. Bombarded with messages from eager beavers welcoming you to the site and oh by the way please read my book. Once the art of shamelessly plugging your book escaped form the forum... the slippery slope to freefall began. That was before Christmas. I was going to pull out in February. But something changed that, and I decided to stay for a while to bench test my collaboration novel.
My writing partner and I want our novel to do well... but it needs a fresh approach. Authonomy is more of the same. And my two other novels could use a fresh approach too. So I'm pulling out because this is the time to go. Klazart has highlighted the issues. But pulling out is my decision which I actually took almost three months ago. To stay would be a mistake.
How would it be a mistake? Mistakes would imply you have something to lose when really you dont. It seems the ultimate goal is getting critics for your book, while the ED seems more an unrealistic fantasy for most. Because you cite the ED as the main problem I dont see its faults a logical reason for your departure. Also you just got a whole army of new critics who are very intelligent that are willing to provide new insights on your works. This seems like one of the best things that could of happend to Authonomy. Even if the old guard leaves who needs them?
It is so entertaining to read all these posts, the anger, the disappointment and the flames. These writers make it seem as if the whole site, forum and community got completely destroyed beyond repair by Klazart and the new members. Instead of increasing their efforts to improve the site, the rating system and the developed relationships, they are simply giving up... -_-a
THE AUTHORS DO NOT OWN THE SITE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THE SITE... IT BELONGS TO HARPER COLLINS... WHICH BELONGS TO MR RUPERT MURDOCH, PRESS BARON!
It is solely the province of the COMPANY what happens to the site. People are pulling out for a number of reasons. Klaz was merely the catalyst for the decision to leave in some cases. Not the actual cause.
To be perfectly honest, a number of members from Authonomy seem to be pulling out or making decisions based upon bad opinions. For example, a lot of Authonomy members seem to just now be learning of 4chan. Just now learning of Anonymous (and using Wikipedia links while they're at it). Thinking that they're being hacked because the site was undergoing maintenance. This isn't the case, and such rationalizations are wrong. Klazart isn't part of Anonymous, and he isn't even from 4chan. When servers are upgraded, interesting things can happen. The work of Authonomy writers is being devalued, it's true, as are their rankings on that site. However, I think it's irrational for them to blow up because of that, never mind blame others. I agree with you, the rankings were flawed from the beginning, and Klazart was the one who exposed that. But this should not necessitate the rash and highly angry pulling out and rejection of events that have transpired by a good number of the authors. I honestly expected more from such individuals. Of course, there are the more level-headed among you too, and I mean no insult to them.
To put it purely from my perspective. I've been there six months. I've made some really great friends. I've had a ball, read some fantastic books, and everything was going great until the realisation of the ED. October's Editor's Desk was the first sign that all was not well. November's was worse, December's was worse still. January's ED... positively psychotic. I hardly entered the site, I have enough hassle in rl, I don't need that kind of crap in my escape space.
Some of you who have signed up have experienced the Swoop. Bombarded with messages from eager beavers welcoming you to the site and oh by the way please read my book. Once the art of shamelessly plugging your book escaped form the forum... the slippery slope to freefall began. That was before Christmas. I was going to pull out in February. But something changed that, and I decided to stay for a while to bench test my collaboration novel.
My writing partner and I want our novel to do well... but it needs a fresh approach. Authonomy is more of the same. And my two other novels could use a fresh approach too. So I'm pulling out because this is the time to go. Klazart has highlighted the issues. But pulling out is my decision which I actually took almost three months ago. To stay would be a mistake.
How would it be a mistake? Mistakes would imply you have something to lose when really you dont. It seems the ultimate goal is getting critics for your book, while the ED seems more an unrealistic fantasy for most. Because you cite the ED as the main problem I dont see its faults a logical reason for your departure. Also you just got a whole army of new critics who are very intelligent that are willing to provide new insights on your works. This seems like one of the best things that could of happend to Authonomy. Even if the old guard leaves who needs them?
Mistake also implies that you might have something to gain by following the same track over and over again... which just isn't true. I've been there six months, I want to try something different. HC doesn't really publish the kind of stories that mine are.
And I also want to take back quite a lot of actual writing time. I'm also looking at Indie publishing which takes quite a lot of work to prep. If folk are interested in reading, feel free to contact me via pm, and I'll be happy to share some chapters with you.
Auth had shot it's bolt for me months back, but I stayed once before... I really do think it should be game over this time.
Its soo funny, they are all pissed off, its funny how lots of old pseudo writers can get so pissed about theyr abstract ratings in a site that cant even handle decent bandwidth are getting a little crazy.
When in fact, if HC cares anything at all about the site, this is only going to make the site stronger.
On March 24 2009 08:11 Klaz wrote: A lot of people are angry, I guess I understand. They thought they had the system worked out, now it seems broken and all their effort seems to be for naught. I don't agree.
If they've been working on their books (as they say their real reason for sticking around is) then they have gained a lot and can continue to do so. One book over taking them in the rankings isn't going to destroy anything.
I think the thing that really kills them, is that they feel that popularity trumps merit. Well, I'd like to think I have merit. Only time will tell.
If you believed in that shit you wouldn't have pulled this stunt.
Mockingbird, we aren't even directly singling you out -- at least, my post wasn't. Rather, there are more extreme and severe fellow Authonomy members of yours who we are referring to; unfortunately, only a small handful of them have decided to try to engage in discussion outside of their own forum.
On March 24 2009 08:11 Klaz wrote: A lot of people are angry, I guess I understand. They thought they had the system worked out, now it seems broken and all their effort seems to be for naught. I don't agree.
If they've been working on their books (as they say their real reason for sticking around is) then they have gained a lot and can continue to do so. One book over taking them in the rankings isn't going to destroy anything.
I think the thing that really kills them, is that they feel that popularity trumps merit. Well, I'd like to think I have merit. Only time will tell.
If you believed in that shit you wouldn't have pulled this stunt.
Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
On March 24 2009 08:11 Klaz wrote: A lot of people are angry, I guess I understand. They thought they had the system worked out, now it seems broken and all their effort seems to be for naught. I don't agree.
If they've been working on their books (as they say their real reason for sticking around is) then they have gained a lot and can continue to do so. One book over taking them in the rankings isn't going to destroy anything.
I think the thing that really kills them, is that they feel that popularity trumps merit. Well, I'd like to think I have merit. Only time will tell.
If you believed in that shit you wouldn't have pulled this stunt.
Were getting enough hate from them as is lets at least present a unified front lol.
On March 24 2009 10:43 Kuja900 wrote: Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
From what I gather, only one. All of the ranked candidates up until this point, i.e. those who have succeeded to get into the top five of the rankings and thus been reviewed by an editor, have not been published. The one that was published wasn't in the top five at the time of its selection.
On March 24 2009 10:43 Kuja900 wrote: Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
That's a good question for some of our Authonomy visitors who I know are reading this thread. Maybe achap can shed some light on this for us.
Wait so the one published wasn't even top five when it WAS published? So a book being in the top five gets a review only and none have gotten on to be published? How often do they hold this vote for top 5 books then...
On March 24 2009 10:43 Kuja900 wrote: Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
That's a good question for some of our Authonomy visitors who I know are reading this thread. Maybe achap can shed some light on this for us.
Wait so the one published wasn't even top five when it WAS published? So a book being in the top five gets a review only and none have gotten on to be published? How often do they hold this vote for top 5 books then...
I think its once a month, being in the top 5 just gets you reviewed by an editor who will make suggestions/corrections and I guess potentially consider it for publication. Im not sure but I think thats right.
On March 24 2009 10:43 Kuja900 wrote: Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
From what I gather, only one. All of the ranked candidates up until this point, i.e. those who have succeeded to get into the top five of the rankings and thus been reviewed by an editor, have not been published. The one that was published wasn't in the top five at the time of its selection.
Edit: Clarity. Edit 2: 'been'
I read around the site a bit and as far as I can tell, the number is at least 3.
But yeah, they haven't been top 5's. Top 5 guarantees you get on the editor's desk, nothing more.
On March 24 2009 10:57 Kuja900 wrote: Sometime tonight klazart is going to breach the top 5
Hopefully so. It's always good to get some professional feedback whether the book is good or not.
Also I don't get why some people are so upset about this... Seriously, if you guys wrote a book and had the chance to do the same thing Klazart did, who wouldn't take it? It's easy to act all high and mighty as a forum troll but if you really put a lot of work into something it's only natural to want some professional feedback and reviewing.
On March 24 2009 10:57 Kuja900 wrote: Sometime tonight klazart is going to breach the top 5
Hopefully so. It's always good to get some professional feedback whether the book is good or not.
Also I don't get why some people are so upset about this... Seriously, if you guys wrote a book and had the chance to do the same thing Klazart did, who wouldn't take it? It's easy to act all high and mighty as a forum troll but if you really put a lot of work into something it's only natural to want some professional feedback and reviewing.
Seriously and its not like hes destroying dreams the unlucky guy hel bump out of the top 5 will just have to wait a month boohoo.
The ranking system on authonomy is highly flawed. After just a day I'm ranked 283! Hopefully they will fix their algorithms to deal with the reality of the internet. That said, I am now spending waaaay too long on the site. It is weird there because people take you seriously and actually care what you think because you can influence their livelyhood.
Saying his has a shitty voice for commentary isn't an ad hominem attack. It's a critique of a extremely important aspect of a commentary.
Now if incontrol had said something like: Wow Klazart's commentary sucks because his mother is a whore that would be an ad hominem attack...but inc didn't say that.
I didn't direct it at Incontrol. Its ludicrous to say that its fallacious to attack a commentator because of his voice. Directing it at others.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks.
Klaz.
I think you should delete this post and repost it later on in the week. Remember what one of your detractors said: you are winning the sprint, but this competition is a marathon.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks.
Klaz.
I think you should delete this post and repost it later on in the week. Remember what one of your detractors said: you are winning the sprint, but this competition is a marathon.
lots of people say lots of things. Not all of it is true. I still need to get into the top 5 and stay there as I might not have another chance. I'm still gonna keep working on the marathon side of things, but this won't stop that.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks.
Klaz.
Been backed from the start. Now I have turned my energies to writing a book in order to increase the value of my vote (and because I've always wanted to write but never had the impetus). I have just written one of the biggest loads of crap in my existence. If I persist and it reaches several pages in length, it might actually end up being funny and I'll post it here.
I have voted Klaz, and filled my bookshelf with with other lesser books that are rising in the rankings. As it is boosting my rating which in turn gives you more points or however that works.
Unfortunately once you've already voted then increasing your TSR won't make a difference, it will only help for books you vote for afterwards.
But thank you for the effort! If you know anyone else who might be interested please spread the word. The more votes I can get, the more the publishers will take notice.
On March 24 2009 16:18 Klaz wrote: thanks fantom! really appreciate it
Unfortunately once you've already voted then increasing your TSR won't make a difference, it will only help for books you vote for afterwards.
But thank you for the effort! If you know anyone else who might be interested please spread the word. The more votes I can get, the more the publishers will take notice.
What happens if I remove my vote for you then vote again? It would be funny if the coding of the site couldn't deal with that, but I expect that it can since it is the easiest scam to pull off. (so I won't do it)
We accepted your request to take down our joke books to not harm you or that site, but this is not the place to solicit more votes. You've been very reasonable and even apologetic to Authonomy up until now, but do you really think after all that's been said in this thread, now is the time to shamelessly plug your book and ask for more votes?
Anyone that has read this thread already understands how to read your book and vote for it if needed, there's no need to continuously ask. The right to blatantly solicit votes is reserved only for longtime vets or contributors, or for polls related to StarCraft. This is not your private YouTube channel. We will close this thread if you use it as just a vehicle for your own personal reasons.
Do you think it'd be appropriate if you started a thread here titled "Vote for my book!" and write what you've written? It'd be closed instantly.
Fair enough. I thought since this thread was already on the subject, it would be acceptable. Since it's not I'll stop.
Also Harper Collins officially said that they were happy for me to plug the book and it was within the rules, which I why I've resumed promoting/asking for votes.
On March 24 2009 10:04 Descent wrote: Mockingbird, we aren't even directly singling you out -- at least, my post wasn't. Rather, there are more extreme and severe fellow Authonomy members of yours who we are referring to; unfortunately, only a small handful of them have decided to try to engage in discussion outside of their own forum.
I know hunny, I was just trying to give my reasons and perspective behind some pull-outs. What's happened has really only confirmed to some of us that have been there a long time that it really is time to try something new and different. That there was a lot of crap going on long before Klazart appeared, and what's happened actually hasn't changed our minds, just confirmed what we already knew.
Yes, some folk are leaving in anger. Me, I'm more philosophical about it, and I'm not pulling out immediately. Because as people are pointing out, there are new readers there now. But the system does really only work as a popularity contest. Klaz's attempt for glory is just the latest new wrinkle, If you look around in the threads you will find reference to the concept of Disney Shelvings. People spinning through books faster than the speed of light, leaving two or three line relatively generic comments and shelving books for five minutes each. That was the previous system breaker. Before that, it was the spam messages "read my book". I created a second identity on there for my collaboration novel with my writing partner. Within half an hour, I had fifteen messages from people who had swooped on the "newbie" about reading their book. Even though I had made it perfectly clear that "A K Levecque" was me and my writing partner!
I was curious, so I came to engage. Some folk are not quite so open, they find it a lot more difficult to talk to people about things outside their comfort zone. Me, I'll talk to anyone about anything... The games I play are on my X Box and not online, and I had never heard of Starcraft until the weekend. But I was extremely curious to know more about the folk who devotedly follow it. So devotedly that they were prepared to follow a guy into a different genre based on their enjoyment of his commentaries on their game.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks.
Klaz.
Been backed from the start. Now I have turned my energies to writing a book in order to increase the value of my vote (and because I've always wanted to write but never had the impetus). I have just written one of the biggest loads of crap in my existence. If I persist and it reaches several pages in length, it might actually end up being funny and I'll post it here.
EDIT spelling
Go for it mate... 10k words and you can post it up on Auth and make public... you never know... your perception that what you have written is crap, might just turn out to be the diamond in the wood pile!
Thinking about this more, I actually think it would be better if HC did away with the rankings ENTIRELY, just had it be an online slush-pile that would work like this.
After 3 months on the site, your first 1000 words would be read by an editor/representative of HC and if they liked it, maybe more.
In those 3 months authors could continue to edit, read and give each other feedback. With no rankings to climb, or TSR's to protect, the feedback would be genuine and heart felt, and you'd still have the incentive to hang around the site.
@Mockingbird Welcome, you are a very good poster and I hope that you find many things of interest in this site and stay with us!
The ranking system on authonomy does seem extremely open to manipulations of all sorts. Maybe the best thing to do would be to keep the numbers secret and not tell people exactly how it works. Perhaps then members would tone down their self-promotional activities and just enjoy the great possibilities offered by a forum like that.
EDIT haha Klazart it seems that we came to similar conclusions
On March 24 2009 10:04 Descent wrote: Mockingbird, we aren't even directly singling you out -- at least, my post wasn't. Rather, there are more extreme and severe fellow Authonomy members of yours who we are referring to; unfortunately, only a small handful of them have decided to try to engage in discussion outside of their own forum.
I know hunny, I was just trying to give my reasons and perspective behind some pull-outs. What's happened has really only confirmed to some of us that have been there a long time that it really is time to try something new and different. That there was a lot of crap going on long before Klazart appeared, and what's happened actually hasn't changed our minds, just confirmed what we already knew.
Yes, some folk are leaving in anger. Me, I'm more philosophical about it, and I'm not pulling out immediately. Because as people are pointing out, there are new readers there now. But the system does really only work as a popularity contest. Klaz's attempt for glory is just the latest new wrinkle, If you look around in the threads you will find reference to the concept of Disney Shelvings. People spinning through books faster than the speed of light, leaving two or three line relatively generic comments and shelving books for five minutes each. That was the previous system breaker. Before that, it was the spam messages "read my book". I created a second identity on there for my collaboration novel with my writing partner. Within half an hour, I had fifteen messages from people who had swooped on the "newbie" about reading their book. Even though I had made it perfectly clear that "A K Levecque" was me and my writing partner!
I was curious, so I came to engage. Some folk are not quite so open, they find it a lot more difficult to talk to people about things outside their comfort zone. Me, I'll talk to anyone about anything... The games I play are on my X Box and not online, and I had never heard of Starcraft until the weekend. But I was extremely curious to know more about the folk who devotedly follow it. So devotedly that they were prepared to follow a guy into a different genre based on their enjoyment of his commentaries on their game.
From my perspective, my point still stands. You are, relatively speaking, an Authonomy veteran, and as a level-minded and accepted member there, you should have done more to prevent the discrimination of newcomers by the other, more angry Authonomites. Your forum has no moderator, and thus it seems the policy was for the members to keep themselves in line. And regardless of whether or not it worked prior, that was far from the case when Klazart entered. True, he adapted your rules to suit him (although his actions have now been approved of by those running the site). But the senseless accusations made by the veteran Authonomy members were hardly befitting of them, nor do gamers venturing onto the forums deserve to be bashed as simple, Klazart-following idiots. To be honest, I went on the forums, and I feel trolled myself by some forum veterans of Authonomy. Also, an alternative: Klazart asked TL for further votes, and he's been quickly refuted. On Authonomy, Klazart's played by the rules, and Authonomites are still throwing little fits. In any case, TL isn't directly supporting Klazart. This is just a well-known foreign SC site, but if you want to see his fanbase, YouTube might be a bit more appropriate. Although, as others have suggested, I don't really mean to kick you out, either. That wasn't/isn't my intention.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks.
Klaz.
Been backed from the start. Now I have turned my energies to writing a book in order to increase the value of my vote (and because I've always wanted to write but never had the impetus). I have just written one of the biggest loads of crap in my existence. If I persist and it reaches several pages in length, it might actually end up being funny and I'll post it here.
EDIT spelling
Go for it mate... 10k words and you can post it up on Auth and make public... you never know... your perception that what you have written is crap, might just turn out to be the diamond in the wood pile!
Thanks for the encouragement. The style I have chosen is an extremely pun-heavy tongue in cheek prose that has the advantage of being funny but can also be lacking in development. 400 words so far
Okay. To be absolutely clear about what has and has not happened viz Editor's Desk picks and the three people who's books were picked.
All three went through traditional routes and were picked by Harper Collins that way, not through Authonomy. None of the top five books have been picked since the Top Five began which was (I believe) last August.
Some of the crits have been absolutely hilariously bad. One was a three paragraph summary of the story with No at the end. Er?? Your average twelve year old could give a better crit than that. Another crit was nearly as long as the book, extremely confused (contradicting itself in several places)... but still said no.
There are some of us who actually doubt that these crits are done by real editors. Certainly by editors with any real power to say yay or nay. And.... and this is the biggie... we just hit a major credit crunch. Authonomy was created in a bull market. Jam for everybody forever. Just around the time the ED was coming into being, banks worldwide starting falling apart at the seams.
So Harper Collins was left with a bit of a problem. In the first place, the bumpf implied that if you made the ED you had a real shot at a publishing contract. Expectations were raised. No to all of September's books... still expecting.... No to October's books.... pattern emerging?... No to November's books. Muttering starts to get fiercer.
Sudden announcement that three books have got contracts.
Battle royal breaks out for ED for December, still no to all the books on it. January's battle positively psychotic. And I do mean psychotic. Nature red in tooth and claw. Nothing remotely funny about it. It has calmed down quite a bit actually. But Klaz's arrival stirred the shit-storm again, and unfortunately, some members chose to express their fury to the newcomers in terms that I personally am embarrassed to be associated with even by distant connection.
Do remember this. The prize is only co-incidently a gold star review from the ED. People are still going on dreaming about that contract with the six figure advance, and three book deal. When you factor money into the equation, the viciousness of response suddenly seems slightly more understandable. People aren't frightened that Klaz will make the desk in March. They're frightened that he might just get a book contract out of it... and after all the schmoozing and reading and putting yourself out there for months, someone comes along and just maybe trumps their efforts?! Think about it. Money is a very powerful imperative.
Me... I write for the fun of it. I started out writing fanfic twenty years ago, and I still do. I don't want to make millions or get a six figure advance. That's not what it's about for me. I want to entertain people, and have a good time doing it. If Authonomy's taught me anything it's that the traditional publishing route actually sucks quite a lot of the fun and originality out of it. So... there you have it.
On March 24 2009 10:04 Descent wrote: Mockingbird, we aren't even directly singling you out -- at least, my post wasn't. Rather, there are more extreme and severe fellow Authonomy members of yours who we are referring to; unfortunately, only a small handful of them have decided to try to engage in discussion outside of their own forum.
I know hunny, I was just trying to give my reasons and perspective behind some pull-outs. What's happened has really only confirmed to some of us that have been there a long time that it really is time to try something new and different. That there was a lot of crap going on long before Klazart appeared, and what's happened actually hasn't changed our minds, just confirmed what we already knew.
Yes, some folk are leaving in anger. Me, I'm more philosophical about it, and I'm not pulling out immediately. Because as people are pointing out, there are new readers there now. But the system does really only work as a popularity contest. Klaz's attempt for glory is just the latest new wrinkle, If you look around in the threads you will find reference to the concept of Disney Shelvings. People spinning through books faster than the speed of light, leaving two or three line relatively generic comments and shelving books for five minutes each. That was the previous system breaker. Before that, it was the spam messages "read my book". I created a second identity on there for my collaboration novel with my writing partner. Within half an hour, I had fifteen messages from people who had swooped on the "newbie" about reading their book. Even though I had made it perfectly clear that "A K Levecque" was me and my writing partner!
I was curious, so I came to engage. Some folk are not quite so open, they find it a lot more difficult to talk to people about things outside their comfort zone. Me, I'll talk to anyone about anything... The games I play are on my X Box and not online, and I had never heard of Starcraft until the weekend. But I was extremely curious to know more about the folk who devotedly follow it. So devotedly that they were prepared to follow a guy into a different genre based on their enjoyment of his commentaries on their game.
From my perspective, my point still stands. You are, relatively speaking, an Authonomy veteran, and as a level-minded and accepted member there, you should have done more to prevent the discrimination of newcomers by the other, more angry Authonomites. Your forum has no moderator, and thus it seems the policy was for the members to keep themselves in line. And regardless of whether or not it worked prior, that was far from the case when Klazart entered. True, he adapted your rules to suit him (although his actions have now been approved of by those running the site). But the senseless accusations made by the veteran Authonomy members were hardly befitting of them, nor do gamers venturing onto the forums deserve to be bashed as simple, Klazart-following idiots. To be honest, I went on the forums, and I feel trolled myself by some forum veterans of Authonomy. Also, an alternative: Klazart asked TL for further votes, and he's been quickly refuted. On Authonomy, Klazart's played by the rules, and Authonomites are still throwing little fits. In any case, TL isn't directly supporting Klazart. This is just a well-known foreign SC site, but if you want to see his fanbase, YouTube might be a bit more appropriate. Although, as others have suggested, I don't really mean to kick you out, either. That wasn't/isn't my intention.
Hunny, I am sincerely sorry that people have been poisonous. Unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of clout over there because I've been disconnecting for months. And (as you have discovered) there are some really vicious trolls. Actually, one or two of them, I am dead glad this is the internet and not face to face because they're not only vicious, they're sinister too.
I have my own merry little band of nutjobs who enjoy my stuff and I have a ball with, and I tend to drift through the forums in a bit of a shell, not really noticing the outside stuff.
I know it's hard to take, but please take some of the more spiteful windbags with a pinch of salt. And remember at the bottom of it, you will find lies this dream of a contract and money. Money does sour a lot of things. As I said in my other post, this is the imperative that drives some people, and is driving some of them still to say some really, really vicious things.
The thing I don't really understand about this is why Klazart has so many fans. I mean, he's terrible at commentating, has a very bad understanding of starcraft and has a very irritating voice, why should he have FANS in the first place? And in such a large number? wtf? It's pretty much like Daniel Lee, really bad at commentating and yet people screaming he's so good for some unknown reason. It's funny how most of the times people very bad at what they do get the most attention.
Thinking about this more, I actually think it would be better if HC did away with the rankings ENTIRELY, just had it be an online slush-pile that would work like this.
After 3 months on the site, your first 1000 words would be read by an editor/representative of HC and if they liked it, maybe more.
In those 3 months authors could continue to edit, read and give each other feedback. With no rankings to climb, or TSR's to protect, the feedback would be genuine and heart felt, and you'd still have the incentive to hang around the site.
Okay, hunny. That's not how Auth was designed to work. The whole point of it was pretty much to take the hassle out of the Slush Pile.... It's essentially a Slush Pile that reads itself, and to ease off the flood of unsolicited mss that fall through Harper Collins' door every day of the week.
What you're describing makes a lot of sense. But there are sites out there that already cover that.
I think that HC needs to give Auth a real re-think. And decide what it is, and what it isn't. Because at the moment, they don't really know. And it shows. I've been in there a long time, and I've seen the way they've tried to re-direct it, as the credit crunch bit, they've tried to damp down people's expectations, but I think they've handled it exceptionally badly.
On March 24 2009 18:05 iG.ClouD wrote: The thing I don't really understand about this is why Klazart has so many fans. I mean, he's terrible at commentating, has a very bad understanding of starcraft and has a very irritating voice, why should he have FANS in the first place? And in such a large number? wtf? It's pretty much like Daniel Lee, really bad at commentating and yet people screaming he's so good for some unknown reason. It's funny how most of the times people very bad at what they do get the most attention.
Chill said:
Can people stop arguing about whether they like Klazart's commentary or not?
This thread is to discuss his book and authonomy.com, please stay on topic. If we head down the "why do people hate Klaz?" road, the result will be lots of bans and closings. Let's just say people have a lot of different opinions on which commentators are good and leave it at that.
Consider this an official warning, 2 day temp bans for people that keep bringing this up.
There are many other threads to say what you think about Klazart and other commentators, let's try to stay on topic.
My point was rather on why he has so many fans, I was not trolling Klazart. I was just saying he isn't supposed to get as much attention as he does, nor so much support for a book no one of them has ever read. That's just plain retarded.
On March 24 2009 18:05 iG.ClouD wrote: The thing I don't really understand about this is why Klazart has so many fans. I mean, he's terrible at commentating, has a very bad understanding of starcraft and has a very irritating voice, why should he have FANS in the first place? And in such a large number? wtf? It's pretty much like Daniel Lee, really bad at commentating and yet people screaming he's so good for some unknown reason. It's funny how most of the times people very bad at what they do get the most attention.
Can people stop arguing about whether they like Klazart's commentary or not?
This thread is to discuss his book and authonomy.com, please stay on topic. If we head down the "why do people hate Klaz?" road, the result will be lots of bans and closings. Let's just say people have a lot of different opinions on which commentators are good and leave it at that.
Consider this an official warning, 2 day temp bans for people that keep bringing this up.
There are many other threads to say what you think about Klazart and other commentators, let's try to stay on topic.
*slightly off topic
I really enjoy Chill's insightful commentaries (though I haven't watched a lot of them)
I think it might be an interesting experiment to do a dual with him. He can be the technical expert and I can do the colour and the screaming. Might be fun.
On March 24 2009 17:24 inlagdsil wrote: @Mockingbird Welcome, you are a very good poster and I hope that you find many things of interest in this site and stay with us!
The ranking system on authonomy does seem extremely open to manipulations of all sorts. Maybe the best thing to do would be to keep the numbers secret and not tell people exactly how it works. Perhaps then members would tone down their self-promotional activities and just enjoy the great possibilities offered by a forum like that.
EDIT haha Klazart it seems that we came to similar conclusions
Hey, thanks hunny.
I wish that you guys could have seen it when shameless book plugging was only possible in the forum under the relevant headings. Because we had people who plugged with real style. It was funny, occasionally there was vitriol, but mostly it was civilised and a good time was had by all.
Ironically the pm system which was designed to keep stuff that was not directly related to your book out of your book's comments section has since become the bane of Auth existence.
On March 24 2009 18:15 iG.ClouD wrote: My point was rather on why he has so many fans, I was not trolling Klazart. I was just saying he isn't supposed to get as much attention as he does, nor so much support for a book no one of them has ever read. That's just plain retarded.
I think I can explain that to some extent. He is the portal into the SC world to many people, including myself. Though I feel that I have now "outgrown" his commentaries with respect to their technical content, and seldom watch them anymore, I still find them extremely entertaining. I also feel like I owe Klazart a lot for bringing me into this world and making it fun. I think that this is one of the main ways in which he garners loyalty. Considering all of the passion that he puts into his commentaries, it is not surpising that so many people, myself included, want to give a little something back.
EDIT: for clarification, I rarely watch any english commentaries of korean games anymore (except for GOMTV) because I find that they actually distract me from following the intricacies of what is going on.
There is a tool bar near the top of the page that is blue, you may use the bronzing horse as your immediately vertical eye marker look back down, be sure your logged in, click that very last little button and post a chapter from one of your books.
I wouldn't be surprised if over 60% of this forum is in college or just out and in those numbers I'm sure there are a number greater then 5 but less then 500'00 that would enjoy to read some good work.
Thanks for your future blogs I look forward to reading them.
P.S.
Klaz, you are a stud. Even are biggest trolls and attention seekers (read:rekrul) couldn't dream of creating the tidal wave of destruction you wield like a battle tested sword. It is times like these that I feel the need to hum "You are beautifull like a rainbow". Bah I disgress. In terms both literal and metaphorical and of course sarcastic, I envy you and want to make the sweet sounds that fill africian jungles with you. The rolling river and winding wind have met there match in you.
Just click "back the book" to vote. I've made it this far, so close now, need to get to the top 5 and stay there for a week. Would really appreciate any help!
On March 24 2009 10:43 Kuja900 wrote: Just out of curiosity this question is for those who frequent the site. Have the been any success stories like so and so novel went on to be published ect that originated on the site?
A couple months or so ago HC advised Authonomy members via an editorial that three authors who had posted on Authonomy had been signed by HC. All three books had fared relatively poorly in the Authonomy voting system at the time of the announcement.
We had been told by HC that their editors 'trolled' Authonomy (fishing term, not Internet term) and this was proof of it. None of us had any idea they fished for work so deep in the pile.
I read all three excerpts and couldn't see how they were that different from the ones not selected. But HC editors did and that was what counted.
Then, HC posted articles on the Authonomy home page by each signed author in which they told their story of being discovered.
It was all very interesting and did show that some who posted on Authonomy have received a publishing contract.
By the way, many who post on Authonomy also send query letters to agents and editors. For them, Authonomy is one of many ways they are employing to get their book on the desk of an agent or editor.
On March 24 2009 08:57 Ivs wrote: Some threads are so ironic. Now klaz has stuffed the numbers up for them, they come out one by one re-iterating again and again saying that the numbers don't matter, it's about making friends etc. Funny how the same people get so bitter and angry over something they claim not to matter. Denial much.
Denial? Perhaps. But, maybe not for all.
Many of the people I know on Authonomy say they spend too much time on the site. There's plenty to do there. Reading is a popular activity. In fact there are a number of people on Authonomy who's profiles say they are not writers and have joined Authonomy to read.
The forums are popular. There are many people who create new threads and post regularly. There are forums on writing, publishing, and even a shameless plug forum. The chat forum gets a lot of traffic. Because the forums aren't moderated (though they have a 'report abuse' button on all messages) things go crazy on them from time to time. I've seen threads hijacked for personal promotion or just to engage in off topic social banter. Some people enjoy this and spend a fair amount of time on the forums, I try to avoid it.
A major activity is a practice known as reciprocal reads (you read and critique my book and I'll reciprocate). These are generally agreed to ahead of time. There are a number of excellent critiquers at Authonomy and they are usually open to reciprocal reads. I generally read three chapters when I do a reciprocal read. Each read and critique takes me two hours. I have done as many as five critiques in a day, but rarely. I try to do at least one a day. What I generally get in return are helpful comments and suggestions regarding the excerpt I have posted. Because I can easily edit my posted excerpt I can keep it updated with the critiques I receive. Through this technique the books on Authonomy tend to improve the longer they're on Authonomy (I know mine has).
Then there are the ratings. There are two rating systems. One for books. One for members.
The book rating is based on how many votes your book gets (one person, one vote per book). As many have pointed out, this rating system is largely a popularity system, though some people's votes count more than others. Some people's votes counts more? Yep. That's the infamous 'talent spotter rating.'
The 'talent spotter rating' arises out of a moving thirty day average of a person's ability to spot rising books early. Some people value having a high TSR.
As you know, the book rating only matters if your book rating makes it to the monthly top five and stays there to the end of the month. As Mockingbird has explained, the battle for top five gets frenzied in the last five days. Number six wants to break into the top five, so they go out and get more votes, etc, etc. Believe me, it's not pretty. And for what? Not a single top five have landed a contract with HC. So, I can believe that many people have simply accepted that their book will never be top five because they won't play the game. I also believe that those people stay because they find much else at Authonomy that interests them.
On March 24 2009 09:01 Kuja900 wrote: How would it be a mistake? Mistakes would imply you have something to lose when really you dont. It seems the ultimate goal is getting critics for your book, while the ED seems more an unrealistic fantasy for most. Because you cite the ED as the main problem I dont see its faults a logical reason for your departure. Also you just got a whole army of new critics who are very intelligent that are willing to provide new insights on your works. This seems like one of the best things that could of happend to Authonomy. Even if the old guard leaves who needs them?
@Kuja900, there are many authors on Authonomy who are there to workshop their book excerpt, and Authonomy is an excellent place to do that. New members who critique are the life blood of Authonomy for those authors.
For example, there are any number of aspiring Science Fiction authors on Authonomy. Their book excerpts are easy to find. Just go to the 'books' tab at the top of your profile. When the 'books' home page comes up, select the genre drop down menu and highlight 'science fiction.' You'll get the top twenty science fiction books on Authonomy. Read and enjoy. And, if you leave the author some constructive comments, it's highly likely those suggestions will soon show up in the posted excerpt.
As you say, 'a whole new army of critics who are very intelligent that are willing to provide new insight on your works.' What's not to like about that?
Seriously and its not like he's destroying dreams the unlucky guy he'll bump out of the top 5 will just have to wait a month boohoo.
Exactly! At the begining of each month, the previous top five are removed from the competition and the previous number six become number one, until someone bumps them down. All month long, the top five battle for votes to stay there . . . and number six is working his butt off trying to get on the top five list. It's insane. Instead, many author just don't try and focus more on improving their books.
As of 9:00 a.m. US EST, Authonomy is functioning and response time is much quicker than normal.
HC said they had plenty of server capacity and the weekend slow down was a fault in their hosting infrastructure. Well, it looks like they may have fixed that fault. If so, this is a major positive fallout of the weekend zergrush.
If you've registered at Authonomy, come back over and enjoy. If you've yet to register, this would be a good time to come over and see what all the noise is about. If you're an aspiring author with at least 10,000 words written, come join us and workshop your work.
If you get there and have questions, message me. I'm CarolinaAl on Authonomy.
On March 24 2009 08:57 Ivs wrote: Some threads are so ironic. Now klaz has stuffed the numbers up for them, they come out one by one re-iterating again and again saying that the numbers don't matter, it's about making friends etc. Funny how the same people get so bitter and angry over something they claim not to matter. Denial much.
Denial? Perhaps. But, maybe not for all.
Many of the people I know on Authonomy say they spend too much time on the site. There's plenty to do there. Reading is a popular activity. In fact there are a number of people on Authonomy who's profiles say they are not writers and have joined Authonomy to read.
The forums are popular. There are many people who create new threads and post regularly. There are forums on writing, publishing, and even a shameless plug forum. The chat forum gets a lot of traffic. Because the forums aren't moderated (though they have a 'report abuse' button on all messages) things go crazy on them from time to time. I've seen threads hijacked for personal promotion or just to engage in off topic social banter. Some people enjoy this and spend a fair amount of time on the forums, I try to avoid it.
A major activity is a practice known as reciprocal reads (you read and critique my book and I'll reciprocate). These are generally agreed to ahead of time. There are a number of excellent critiquers at Authonomy and they are usually open to reciprocal reads. I generally read three chapters when I do a reciprocal read. Each read and critique takes me two hours. I have done as many as five critiques in a day, but rarely. I try to do at least one a day. What I generally get in return are helpful comments and suggestions regarding the excerpt I have posted. Because I can easily edit my posted excerpt I can keep it updated with the critiques I receive. Through this technique the books on Authonomy tend to improve the longer they're on Authonomy (I know mine has).
Then there are the ratings. There are two rating systems. One for books. One for members.
The book rating is based on how many votes your book gets (one person, one vote per book). As many have pointed out, this rating system is largely a popularity system, though some people's votes count more than others. Some people's votes counts more? Yep. That's the infamous 'talent spotter rating.'
The 'talent spotter rating' arises out of a moving thirty day average of a person's ability to spot rising books early. Some people value having a high TSR.
As you know, the book rating only matters if your book rating makes it to the monthly top five and stays there to the end of the month. As Mockingbird has explained, the battle for top five gets frenzied in the last five days. Number six wants to break into the top five, so they go out and get more votes, etc, etc. Believe me, it's not pretty. And for what? Not a single top five have landed a contract with HC. So, I can believe that many people have simply accepted that their book will never be top five because they won't play the game. I also believe that those people stay because they find much else at Authonomy that interests them.
I am aware of the system, but in my opinion, those who care are about making the top 5, (or at least caring about a high TSR for the interest of recipricating reads so their book can do better) are just outplayed in the system. It is upsetting but they have no case in shouting cheats.
For those who are there for the community and improvement in writing, and agreeing that making the top 5 would not be a primary goal, the recent event shouldn't bother them. They can still talk to other writers, sharing crits etc, provided the technical faults are fixed (and they should be).
The only ones really have a right to be thiiis upset are the ones who thinks the stuffed up TSR ranks will be detrimental to their attractiveness to other writers, in terms of crit swaps. So their months of hard work is ruined. These people should realise that this is 1) a fault in the algorithm which also should be fixed sometimes and 2) rather irrelevant in reality because those who overtook them in TSR are mostly one off visitors anyway.
So yeah, those who are currently mourning over the "death" of authonomy in the forums, I don't think many of them actually belong in the last category I mentioned. And even then, the initial shocks/misunderstandings aside, a lot more maturity, than the ones shown, is expected.
On March 24 2009 08:57 Ivs wrote: Some threads are so ironic. Now klaz has stuffed the numbers up for them, they come out one by one re-iterating again and again saying that the numbers don't matter, it's about making friends etc. Funny how the same people get so bitter and angry over something they claim not to matter. Denial much.
Denial? Perhaps. But, maybe not for all.
Many of the people I know on Authonomy say they spend too much time on the site. There's plenty to do there. Reading is a popular activity. In fact there are a number of people on Authonomy who's profiles say they are not writers and have joined Authonomy to read.
The forums are popular. There are many people who create new threads and post regularly. There are forums on writing, publishing, and even a shameless plug forum. The chat forum gets a lot of traffic. Because the forums aren't moderated (though they have a 'report abuse' button on all messages) things go crazy on them from time to time. I've seen threads hijacked for personal promotion or just to engage in off topic social banter. Some people enjoy this and spend a fair amount of time on the forums, I try to avoid it.
A major activity is a practice known as reciprocal reads (you read and critique my book and I'll reciprocate). These are generally agreed to ahead of time. There are a number of excellent critiquers at Authonomy and they are usually open to reciprocal reads. I generally read three chapters when I do a reciprocal read. Each read and critique takes me two hours. I have done as many as five critiques in a day, but rarely. I try to do at least one a day. What I generally get in return are helpful comments and suggestions regarding the excerpt I have posted. Because I can easily edit my posted excerpt I can keep it updated with the critiques I receive. Through this technique the books on Authonomy tend to improve the longer they're on Authonomy (I know mine has).
Then there are the ratings. There are two rating systems. One for books. One for members.
The book rating is based on how many votes your book gets (one person, one vote per book). As many have pointed out, this rating system is largely a popularity system, though some people's votes count more than others. Some people's votes counts more? Yep. That's the infamous 'talent spotter rating.'
The 'talent spotter rating' arises out of a moving thirty day average of a person's ability to spot rising books early. Some people value having a high TSR.
As you know, the book rating only matters if your book rating makes it to the monthly top five and stays there to the end of the month. As Mockingbird has explained, the battle for top five gets frenzied in the last five days. Number six wants to break into the top five, so they go out and get more votes, etc, etc. Believe me, it's not pretty. And for what? Not a single top five have landed a contract with HC. So, I can believe that many people have simply accepted that their book will never be top five because they won't play the game. I also believe that those people stay because they find much else at Authonomy that interests them.
I am aware of the system, but in my opinion, those who care are about making the top 5, (or at least caring about a high TSR for the interest of recipricating reads so their book can do better) are just outplayed in the system. It is upsetting but they have no case in shouting cheats.
For those who are there for the community and improvement in writing, and agreeing that making the top 5 would not be a primary goal, the recent event shouldn't bother them. They can still talk to other writers, sharing crits etc, provided the technical faults are fixed (and they should be).
The only ones really have a right to be thiiis upset are the ones who thinks the stuffed up TSR ranks will be detrimental to their attractiveness to other writers, in terms of crit swaps. So their months of hard work is ruined. These people should realise that this is 1) a fault in the algorithm which also should be fixed sometimes and 2) rather irrelevant in reality because those who overtook them in TSR are mostly one off visitors anyway.
So yeah, those who are currently mourning over the "death" of authonomy in the forums, I don't think many of them actually belong in the last category I mentioned. And even then, the initial shocks/misunderstandings aside, a lot more maturity, than the ones shown, is expected.
I agree. They were outplayed. There was/is no cheating. HC has clarified that.
There are probably less than three hundred active members (I could be wrong). I bet that less than twenty people will leave over the events of the weekend, maybe fewer. Most members will stay and it's clear by my Authonomy newsfeed that they are resuming their normal, calm activities. As Mockingbird said, she had been thinking about leaving before the weekend. Some of those leaving might have been close to leaving prior to the weekend as well. Hard to say.
Actually, HC has said (in a private message I've seen) that the TSR problem will right itself if the high TSR noobs don't continue to pick fast rising books, as the TSR formula has a moving thirty day average feature.
More maturity by some would be welcome, but Authonomy has far more thoughtful, mature people than immature ones. And it's still an excellent place to workshop a new book despite its flaws.
well I might not make it in the top 5 after all, looks like the "regulars" are all making a push to defeat the "gamers". Back to #6 now. Should be fun to see what happens. Either way it's been a fun ride.
In fact, the fresh injection of people has made me delay pulling out. I was going to pull out at the end of this week. I have decided to stay a bit longer, because I would like the opportunity to gauge some more opinion. My work is generally targetted in the 18-35 age bracket. (Some of it is unsuitable for under 18s).
I am also happy to share extracts of my various mss with anyone who would like to have a read.
On March 24 2009 23:27 Klaz wrote: well I might not make it in the top 5 after all, looks like the "regulars" are all making a push to defeat the "gamers". Back to #6 now. Should be fun to see what happens. Either way it's been a fun ride.
Klaz... seven days to go, and the thing fluctuates wildly.... don't assume that it's all over, because it isn't. But, at the end of the day... there is no desperate rush, you can make the ED next month. Stick around, savour it a bit, it is good fun... honest.
On March 24 2009 23:27 Klaz wrote: well I might not make it in the top 5 after all, looks like the "regulars" are all making a push to defeat the "gamers". Back to #6 now. Should be fun to see what happens. Either way it's been a fun ride.
@Klaz, if you're looking for critiques from Authonomy regulars it might be a good thing not to make it to top five this month. Reason: Once a book makes it to the top five and gets reviewed by HC it gets significantly fewer reviews by Authonomy members.
If you're not looking for critiques from Authonomy users, then the faster you get the HC critique the better. But, as Mockingbird has previously pointed out, the HC critiques range from exceptionally poor to excellent. That's the critiques, not the books being reviewed.
Some critiques have been brutally harsh. Some critques have been exceptionally supportive. You can read the HC critiques. Go to the 'books' home page. Select a book with a Gold Star (Gold Star books have had a HC critique). On the Gold Starred book's comment page, the HC critique will be labeled as such and is normally first in the sequence of comments. Remember, not all critiques are the same in detail, so it might be a good idea to read several. Your choice, of course.
On March 25 2009 02:15 Klaz wrote: Lol this guy is clever, he used my book's rise to keep his TSR at number 1. And now he's using it to keep me out of the top 5. REALLY CLEVER.
Basically spamming everyone on the site, promising to back their books if they keep me out of the top 5.
Well if all this doesn't work out, and you have to go to other avenues of getting published, you can tell them about this site and say that your book was so controversial that it made it to the top 5, but a concerted effort of its detractors knocked it out. Maybe it's a lie of omission but it'll get them to take a good hard look at your book.
Well, TBH I didn't really expect to make it to the top 5 when I started, so it won't be a huge disappointment if I don't. Still kinda lame to get so close and just miss out. Still, I've gotten some good feedback, and not really invested THAT much time in the endeavour.
On March 25 2009 02:15 Klaz wrote: Lol this guy is clever, he used my book's rise to keep his TSR at number 1. And now he's using it to keep me out of the top 5. REALLY CLEVER.
Basically spamming everyone on the site, promising to back their books if they keep me out of the top 5.
On March 25 2009 03:02 Biff The Understudy wrote: The whole thing is retarded. I'm pretty sure 99% of people who voted for Klazart have never had the intention if reading a bloody line of his book.
Good thing the basis of the website is popularity and not comprehension. I'm not sure why you bring this up.
On March 25 2009 02:43 Klaz wrote: Well, TBH I didn't really expect to make it to the top 5 when I started, so it won't be a huge disappointment if I don't. Still kinda lame to get so close and just miss out. Still, I've gotten some good feedback, and not really invested THAT much time in the endeavour.
You did everything backwards... Should've used intelligent critique from users there for a month or so and when your book was polished enough - hit ratings hard with your fanbase. This would've given you as much attention from HC as it did now and your book would've scored far more points from critics if picked.
On March 25 2009 02:43 Klaz wrote: Well, TBH I didn't really expect to make it to the top 5 when I started, so it won't be a huge disappointment if I don't. Still kinda lame to get so close and just miss out. Still, I've gotten some good feedback, and not really invested THAT much time in the endeavour.
Klaz, let's be serious here, you're obviously going to be very disappointed if you don't make it and you're quite invested in this, enough to make videos, constantly reply to this thread and others on authonomy, and send me many PMs asking us to take down Shadow Rush. You were distraught when they were considering deleting your book.
There's nothing wrong with being passionate and caring about your work especially if it takes you years to write it. In fact, I would respect your actions far less if what you posted here is in fact true, that it "won't be a huge disappointment" not to make it and that you trivialize your own investment.
Stef Nalton (a British guy) is sending out messages to his network of people to back the #4 and #5 books. If won't have any impact if the Authonomy user has already backed those books, but it clearly is becoming a battle of networks now.
TSRs of people voting could become critical in this endeavor, as nobs don't have much voting power. Because of the thirty day weighed average aspect of the TSR formula, the TSRs of Authonomy users should rise over the next week. So as the week progresses, they will become more powerful. The only questions are how many people can Stef Nalton bring, how fast their TSRs return, and how many more people can Klaz bring in.
The strategies are in play. Until someone comes up with a different strategy, it's a numbers game.
Is this is starting to sound like a mini starcraft commentary? LOL
Klaz... there's a guy on Auth, Dan Holloway. His book Songs From The Other Side of The Wall is not only a seriously good book, but he is the one author who has come closest to getting accepted. You could get some good tips from reading his work and the comments.
I love how authonomy got exposed to the internet for two days, and cancer has already developed and became widespread across its cells First they were all worked up on mindless gamers voting blind, now they are voting left and right just to keep a book off the top 5. They have betrayed their principles and failed their own standards, and that is the real collapse, not the temporary server overload. "PMS Girl" ftw! No wonder they rarely see a contract
On March 25 2009 02:43 Klaz wrote: Well, TBH I didn't really expect to make it to the top 5 when I started, so it won't be a huge disappointment if I don't. Still kinda lame to get so close and just miss out. Still, I've gotten some good feedback, and not really invested THAT much time in the endeavour.
You did everything backwards... Should've used intelligent critique from users there for a month or so and when your book was polished enough - hit ratings hard with your fanbase. This would've given you as much attention from HC as it did now and your book would've scored far more points from critics if picked.
Good concepts.
Also, strategically, the next person to do this should consider how best to follow up on the initial rush. I'd guess it would be good to move the second wave into the battle at the same time as the first, but with instructions to build up their TSRs for a week so that as the regular users get their power back, you will have a way to counter act them.
How to artificially build up TSRs? I've seen groups of people on Authonomy messaging lists of books to read on a predetermined weekly basis. I have assume this is for block voting, and block voting tends to not only elevate the favored books but also the early backers. Thus, TRSs go up right along with the favored books.
As Mockingbird has said, the game playing at Authonomy has been going on for quite a while . . . and it will, no doubt, continue.
Dumb. This defeats the purpose of the site in all sorts of new ways that even Klaz wasn't doing with his previous pleas AND keep in mind that #1 will more than likely just win a professional critique. that's great, but hardly worth mobilizing the troops as you seem to be doing.
On March 25 2009 03:30 AttackZerg wrote: I am not a klazart fan and I am not proud to admit this, but I do not like the idea of klazart getting ganged up on by a few literally douche bags who most likely are only doing it for spite.
I will be backing your book and I encourage anybody who I hang out with or who know me through this forum or iccup to do the same.
Just to spite, my myspace and my moms literally blog will be linking to 'back' this book. Along with her ravelry.com (sp) account which is one of the worldest largest forums. I would love to see klazart win now. Or book of shadows reposted!
Dumb. This defeats the purpose of the site in all sorts of new ways that even Klaz wasn't doing with his previous pleas AND keep in mind that #1 will more than likely just win a professional critique. that's great, but hardly worth mobilizing the troops as you seem to be doing.
Don't forget that the professional critique may be a disappointment and not at all worth the effort.
In the end, the only victor in this may be HC who has gained a lot of unintended publicity and more than a few active new users. And I hope that some of the TL members who are authors post an excerpt of their book and get some valuable feedback. That would be a good thing.
You're right. I will be very disappointed, but you can't blame me for trying to reduce my hopes in advance of that to mitigate that disappointment.
The reason I went down the route of the youtube fanbase is because I didn't want to get involved in teh game of mutual back scratching on that site. Honestly, I've read some of the stuff, and I read a lot, and as a reader....... let's leave that bit unsaid.
But if I read those books and gave them HONEST reviews, I don't think anyone would vote for me. I don't really think many in the "community" there are about honest reviews.It's more about cliques and which clique is stronger than which other clique. And whether you can curry favour with those who pull the strings.
When I started out, I didn't have much hope, just an idea, and a carefree attitude. If it works out great, if it doesn't oh well. But as it actually STARTED to work, I started to get more hopeful, and as you said more invested.
Ultimately it turns out that I can't beat the system after all. These guys are pro at it, they've been working it for months. Much higher APM then me.
They've decided I haven't earned my place in their group, so they're going to keep me out. I prolly shoulda seen it coming, considering the amount of animosity that's resulted from my efforts.
So yes I'm dissapointed, but when I put it into context in the grand scheme of things, I've still had some decent feedback and exposure and a lot of people seem to genuinely enjoy my novel, which is very encouraging. After the end of the month I can resume finishing off the novel and then get back to the traditional grind of submitting to agents and publishers, which is what 99% of writers who get published have to do.
Getting to the editor's desk on Authonomy was a cool idea that gave a unique hope, but I believe in myself and my work enough to keep plowing on till I see my novel on a real shelf in a bookstore.
On March 25 2009 03:36 AttackZerg wrote: It is out of spite. Winning is everything. After going to those forums the deserve to get embarassed and have klazart win.
Klazart != TeamLiquid.
I would encourage TeamLiquid users not to vote for his books until they read it and all the books around his.
I wouldn't want to see someone win through votes that haven't even read his book. Even if he didn't intend that to happen, its the logical result.
On March 25 2009 03:54 Klaz wrote: But if I read those books and gave them HONEST reviews, I don't think anyone would vote for me. I don't really think many in the "community" there are about honest reviews.
On March 25 2009 03:36 AttackZerg wrote: It is out of spite. Winning is everything. After going to those forums the deserve to get embarassed and have klazart win.
What about reading the excerpt and voting with your honest opinion (or back it up / don't back it up, whatever it's called)?
Wait, that would be a reasonable thing to do. I'm sorry.
Except nobody does that anyway. It quite clearly boiled down to:
Guy #1: Hey, wanna read my book? Gal #2: Sure, if you read & review mine!
...later...
Gal #2: So, did you like my book? Guy #1: Uh.. of course! It was awesome! How about mine? Gal #2: Um.... fantabulous! Let's rave about each others books? Guy #1: Sure! Works for me!
Ad nauseam. Why on earth would anyone give honest reviews if that could mean hurting their own chances? The few people willing to were the ones who WEREN'T climbing up the ladder, because they were already established. Ladder-climbers had to dive into the culture of mutual butt-sniffing to advance. Klazart tried a different way.
On March 25 2009 02:43 Klaz wrote: Well, TBH I didn't really expect to make it to the top 5 when I started, so it won't be a huge disappointment if I don't. Still kinda lame to get so close and just miss out. Still, I've gotten some good feedback, and not really invested THAT much time in the endeavour.
Klaz hunny... I'm afraid that last remark is exactly why some people have wigged out. For people who have invested hours and hours of time in working their way up the slush pile, that remark is pretty infuriating. It doesn't excuse their rudeness, but why if you've already invested two years in the book are you so keen on chucking the book on top of the pile and saying "hey look at this?"
That said. How you get there doesn't bother me that much, but what IS the darned fired rush?? J D Salinger, two published works in forty years, and he is acknowledged to be one of the greatest writers of the post war period. Speed doesn't make things great. You've already invested the time in your work. I have read it, and you really do have something to say, but I have to concur that it needs polishing.
There are some real heavy hitters on that website, professional critics, even some published authors, journalists, lots and lots of different wordsmiths who could help you put a real glow on your work. My advice is slow down, engage with the folk that can do you the most good, reciprocate reads, get into what the site is about and you will be all the better for it. Honestly, you will.
On March 25 2009 03:54 Klaz wrote: But if I read those books and gave them HONEST reviews, I don't think anyone would vote for me. I don't really think many in the "community" there are about honest reviews.
LOL. Do you have any idea how ironic this is? I gave you my honest review, as did many others, and see how you took it.
What are you talking about books or commentary....
If you're talking about commentary.. you're right. I reacted very defensively. I don't know half as much as a lot of you guys when it comes to the technical detail of the game. I do feel that I'm a good judge of the overall flow of things though. But ya now I just do them for my enjoyment and that of those who enjoy watching em.
And while many of the comments were spot on, and some were even constructive there were a few people that I felt weren't trying to help me improve but only tear me down, as if they hated me personally or something (before the whole controversy got going). At the same time people seemed adamant on refusing to acknowledge that I had any sort of positive effect on the community at all, which I don't think was/is true. All that kind of got my back up. And once you get entrenched into a forum argument, well they take a life of their own.
Either way, I actually listened to some of your commentaries not to long ago and actually enjoyed them quite a bit. You obviously read the game at a whole other level, but I still feel that there is value in what I do, and I have fun doing it.
Being a writer the past two years, I've had to take much tougher criticism and in hindsight all that other stuff seems so minor.
Klaz, it is not all mutual back scratching. Some people have taken a lot of time and effort to read your novel and try help you improve it, with no expectation of anything in return. You even have a critique by a professional editor, which you should pay close attention to. It is not about cliques, not for many of us there; it is about improving ours and other's work.
Plenty of people have welcomed you. Others were irritated that you played it like a game. Please don't complain because someone else plays the game too - it's not the system - he did that on his own initiative - like you.
On March 25 2009 03:54 Klaz wrote: But if I read those books and gave them HONEST reviews, I don't think anyone would vote for me. I don't really think many in the "community" there are about honest reviews.
LOL. Do you have any idea how ironic this is? I gave you my honest review, as did many others, and see how you took it.
What are you talking about books or commentary....
If you're talking about commentary.. you're right. I reacted very defensively. I don't know half as much as a lot of you guys when it comes to the technical detail of the game. I do feel that I'm a good judge of the overall flow of things though. But ya now I just do them for my enjoyment and that of those who enjoy watching em.
And while many of the comments were spot on, and some were even constructive there were a few people that I felt weren't trying to help me improve but only tear me down, as if they hated me personally or something (before the whole controversy got going). At the same time people seemed adamant on refusing to acknowledge that I had any sort of positive effect on the community at all, which I don't think was/is true. All that kind of got my back up. And once you get entrenched into a forum argument, well they take a life of their own.
Either way, I actually listened to some of your commentaries not to long ago and actually enjoyed them quite a bit. You obviously read the game at a whole other level, but I still feel that there is value in what I do, and I have fun doing it.
Being a writer the past two years, I've had to take much tougher criticism and in hindsight all that other stuff seems so minor.
Commentary, of course. I will never get over the slap in my face that is someone relatively new to the game telling me my experience-backed comments were meaningless and that I should respect his effort. I can't comment on everyone else, but that's where I stand.
On March 25 2009 03:54 Klaz wrote: But if I read those books and gave them HONEST reviews, I don't think anyone would vote for me. I don't really think many in the "community" there are about honest reviews.
LOL. Do you have any idea how ironic this is? I gave you my honest review, as did many others, and see how you took it.
What are you talking about books or commentary....
If you're talking about commentary.. you're right. I reacted very defensively. I don't know half as much as a lot of you guys when it comes to the technical detail of the game. I do feel that I'm a good judge of the overall flow of things though. But ya now I just do them for my enjoyment and that of those who enjoy watching em.
And while many of the comments were spot on, and some were even constructive there were a few people that I felt weren't trying to help me improve but only tear me down, as if they hated me personally or something (before the whole controversy got going). At the same time people seemed adamant on refusing to acknowledge that I had any sort of positive effect on the community at all, which I don't think was/is true. All that kind of got my back up. And once you get entrenched into a forum argument, well they take a life of their own.
Either way, I actually listened to some of your commentaries not to long ago and actually enjoyed them quite a bit. You obviously read the game at a whole other level, but I still feel that there is value in what I do, and I have fun doing it.
Being a writer the past two years, I've had to take much tougher criticism and in hindsight all that other stuff seems so minor.
Commentary, of course. I will never get over the slap in my face that is someone relatively new to the game telling me my experience-backed comments were meaningless and that I should respect his effort. I can't comment on everyone else, but that's where I stand.
You still hold a grudge, after all this time? Wow.
On March 25 2009 04:54 zulu_nation8 wrote: I don't hold a grudge Klaz, I honestly don't mind what you do as long you are aware of your shortcomings.
And what difference do my shortcomings, and awareness or not of them really make to you?
Honestly, I'm happy with the way I commentate, and the "level" I commentate it at. Enough people seem to enjoy it to make it worthwhile enough for me. And that's enough for me. Esp since it's only a VERY part time hobby, which will probably end when SC2 comes out.
On March 25 2009 03:36 AttackZerg wrote: It is out of spite. Winning is everything. After going to those forums the deserve to get embarassed and have klazart win.
What about reading the excerpt and voting with your honest opinion (or back it up / don't back it up, whatever it's called)?
Wait, that would be a reasonable thing to do. I'm sorry.
TBH, I have no interest in anything klazart could say about any subject.
It is for my own humor. There are plenty of websites like EastOftheweb.com that are real writing communities, where authors put forth real work and aren't cock sucking for a ratings bump.
I do not respect the idea or concept of the community.
You sound like you are drowning in your own bile. I mean seriously you changed your 'motives' for going there so many times now. You are an inconsistent persona. I'm editing my posts.
On March 25 2009 05:04 Floodgate wrote: Klaz: "the votes would be so precious and worth something"
Do your 1000 votes come into that category?
Possibly more people on authonomy have read more of your book than anybody else.
But, yes, a month is an awfully long time to spend winning a prize, I agree, especially as there really isn't a prize.
Floodgate - I did say the system was broken didn't I. I'm just saying, that I've identified what I feel is a major flaw. I made a more detailed post earlier about how the rankings should probably be done away with entirely. that is if one wants talent to be unearthed
I guess it depends on what your goal is. If your just happy exchanging critiques with "good" writers and hanging around, then it doesn't matter.
If your goal is to get on the ED and get some feedback, then yes, exchanging critiques in order to get there is very much a waste of time. even if it is only a month
Another way to get an agent or editor to look at your work is to enter those writing contests judged by an agent or editor with a book that finals. In those contests, the agent/editor rank orders the finalists. To do that they have to form an opinion on the relative quality each of the finalists. Sometimes, but not always, they request the full manuscript of those who they rank first.
There are many avenues to publication and Authonomy is just one of many possible routes.
The odds of making are long, but it's always possible. New authors are signed every year.
On March 25 2009 05:00 Chill wrote: Anyways, derailment over. This thread is about books and Authonomy and drama, not commentary.
FU dickhead, you've been derailing / flaming klaz more than anyone (jealouse of his talent maybe?). Go make some commentaries that 20 people cares about, haha.
On March 25 2009 05:00 Chill wrote: Anyways, derailment over. This thread is about books and Authonomy and drama, not commentary.
FU dickhead, you've been derailing / flaming klaz more than anyone (jealouse of his talent maybe?). Go make some commentaries that 20 people cares about, haha.
I know you are mad, but what do you really hope to accomplish with that post? I would honestly suggest that you do as Chill is doing, and leave the subject alone, the only thing this will lead to is bannings and more hurt feelings. Sounds sappy, but whatever.
Edit: Nevermind, the lockdown icon means you went too far.
On March 25 2009 05:00 Chill wrote: Anyways, derailment over. This thread is about books and Authonomy and drama, not commentary.
FU dickhead, you've been derailing / flaming klaz more than anyone (jealouse of his talent maybe?). Go make some commentaries that 20 people cares about, haha.
I know you are mad, but what do you really hope to accomplish with that post? I would honestly suggest that you do as Chill is doing, and leave the subject alone, the only thing this will lead to is bannings and more hurt feelings. Sounds sappy, but whatever.
Edit: Nevermind, the lockdown icon means you went too far.
2cents: - I too had huge enjoyment initially reading this thread. ROFLed so hard at thread title - Didnt really love watching starcraft until i started to watch Klaz's commentaries. As many have said, -Analysis but +Excitement - Enjoyment of thread quickly turned into disgust at the mud-throwers on both ends. - Quite amused + disgusted to see authonomy middle aged adults deteriorate into whinny trolls like teens with +vocab. Something just isnt right when the Usr display picture is some middle age guy with mustache whine and go "thats not fair! thats it! im not playing anymore! i QUIT >=(" Congrats, the internet does not care. - VERY amused that authonomy editors/admins didnt give a ratsass about what the regulars thought, and just welcomed the publicity. - Disgusted by the amount of inter-masturbation required just to get onto editor's desk on authonomy side - Didn't expect the lack of support (not to say attacking, just no support) from TL's (yes, generalizing) for a fellow SC enthusiast who finish writing a book. - Most appalling to see how two entirly different but hugely intelligent communities crash and fracture to reveal worms and uglies in the underbelly - thought Shadow Rush was rather bm (even though i rofled), although it games the system just like klaz's book did, it was done as a joke and probably creates more sc/klaz hate on authonomy side. - Read some good stuff on authonomy, much thanks for introducing me to that website - (correct if wrong) cant help but feel theres a bit of condescension when ppl say that klaz's commentaries are not as in depth as others, agree with those saying klaz deserves more respect on TL, since hes like a major admissions recruiter and is at forefront of promoting esports and fighting the old "gamer" stigma. (Gamers write intelligent books and lead constructive lives AND get marred too! not just live in mum's basement.) - For better or worse, he has publicity atm, and is a resource to TL community, even if you think "omg his voice is annoying" and poke fun with "haigaisthisisklazartbringingyouanotheraudiocommentary" 1 line posts. They remind me of the "1a2a3a4a5a" rips on protoss.
This thread has now had 35,000 views. That's immense publicity for Klazart and Authonomy.
For comparison, Klazart's YouTube video regarding his book on Authonomy has had 7,500 views, and only two of his 322 commentary videos presently posted on YouTube have had in excess of thirty-five thousand views. Only one of his last eighteen commentary videos has exceeded ten thousand views.
There is a bottom line here. Potentially a publishing contract. There are people who would sell their mothers for such a thing. When there is a potential for money to be involved, there's always likely to be an outbreak of nastiness. And... to some of these people (me included), this is their livelihood, so defending one of their resources is to a certain extent understandable. Although some of the attitudes displayed at the weekend I was ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with, even by tenuous connection.
Me, the more the merrier, if folk want to read my stuff even better as far as I'm concerned, this has happened, now to make the best of it, not the worst.
On March 25 2009 08:01 achap54 wrote: This thread has now had 35,000 views. That's immense publicity for Klazart and Authonomy.
For comparison, Klazart's YouTube video regarding his book on Authonomy has had 7,500 views, and only two of his 322 commentary videos presently posted on YouTube have had in excess of thirty-five thousand views. Only one of his last eighteen commentary videos has exceeded ten thousand views.
TL rules.
Edit: Spelling
Note that the number of views is the number of times any page in this thread has been opened. Therefore each of us who is following this thread may have contributed 50 views or some even more. On youtube, the number of views corresponds much more closely to the number of people who have seen the video. That said, this is incredible publicity.
On March 25 2009 07:17 Railxp wrote: - (correct if wrong) cant help but feel theres a bit of condescension when ppl say that klaz's commentaries are not as in depth as others, agree with those saying klaz deserves more respect on TL, since hes like a major admissions recruiter and is at forefront of promoting esports and fighting the old "gamer" stigma. (Gamers write intelligent books and lead constructive lives AND get marred too! not just live in mum's basement.)
Of course there will be a condescending tone when saying that someone's commentary lacks depth, no shit? A site that focuses heavily on accuracy in the interpretation of the pro-scene bashes an amateur's outlook on the game and you are surprised?
I don't see how he is fighting the old "gamer" stigma besides what he said on authonomy, which is just word-of-mouth and not a direct contradiction to the stereotype.
Weren't there quite alot of technical faults with the old TL write-ups?
These have dissappeared since they began to get good players to do them, but wasn't that quite a bit after they began taking apart the commentators? I'm not going to stand here and bash the old write-ups, but it seems kind of mean of TL to bully the english commentators so badly due to their lack of knowledge...
I'd just rather everyone could get along and this pointless arguing would just end...
On March 25 2009 10:55 Piy wrote: Weren't there quite alot of technical faults with the old TL write-ups?
These have dissappeared since they began to get good players to do them, but wasn't that quite a bit after they began taking apart the commentators? I'm not going to stand here and bash the old write-ups, but it seems kind of mean of TL to bully the english commentators so badly due to their lack of knowledge...
I'd just rather everyone could get along and this pointless arguing would just end...
Old being the key word here. Since the current level of accuracy is greater, it is justifiable for people to be judgmental of Klaz. I am not saying that what he does is shit, I think everyone has the right to try to do things they like the way they want to, but there will always be critics and opposing parties and that is normal, it's inevitable.
The way I see it, it's like fastest vs. melee maps on USEast or something. Fastest players being Klazart fans, melee players being TL members that support a higher level of commentating and are critical of his commentaries. If I need to elaborate, let me know.
On March 25 2009 10:55 Piy wrote: Weren't there quite alot of technical faults with the old TL write-ups?
These have dissappeared since they began to get good players to do them, but wasn't that quite a bit after they began taking apart the commentators? I'm not going to stand here and bash the old write-ups, but it seems kind of mean of TL to bully the english commentators so badly due to their lack of knowledge...
I'd just rather everyone could get along and this pointless arguing would just end...
Old being the key word here. Since the current level of accuracy is greater, it is justifiable for people to be judgmental of Klaz. I am not saying that what he does is shit, I think everyone has the right to try to do things they like the way they want to, but there will always be critics and opposing parties and that is normal, it's inevitable.
The way I see it, it's like fastest vs. melee maps on USEast or something. Fastest players being Klazart fans, melee players being TL members that support a higher level of commentating and are critical of his commentaries. If I need to elaborate, let me know.
dude tl commentators are no better. they the same obvious boring stuff you would hear from any of the youtube commentators. tasteless and artosis do not count as tl commentators. they work for esports and are just members of this site like you or me.
On March 25 2009 07:17 Railxp wrote: - (correct if wrong) cant help but feel theres a bit of condescension when ppl say that klaz's commentaries are not as in depth as others, agree with those saying klaz deserves more respect on TL, since hes like a major admissions recruiter and is at forefront of promoting esports and fighting the old "gamer" stigma. (Gamers write intelligent books and lead constructive lives AND get marred too! not just live in mum's basement.)
Of course there will be a condescending tone when saying that someone's commentary lacks depth, no shit? A site that focuses heavily on accuracy in the interpretation of the pro-scene bashes an amateur's outlook on the game and you are surprised?
I don't see how he is fighting the old "gamer" stigma besides what he said on authonomy, which is just word-of-mouth and not a direct contradiction to the stereotype.
Didnt say i was surprised about this point, in fact, "surprise" doesnt even come up in that bullet. TL and Klaz serve two different purposes/groups. But i AM surprised by the hostility/rivalry whenever his name pops up on TL. You dont see a calculus prof attack a middle school math teacher's work.
Merely expanding into other online communities while proudly carrying the "gamer" title does the work. If you go on authonomy site and read their forums, you will find threads regarding gamers that would never have been there. AND there are now authonomy members on TL, middle aged book writers suddenly exploring sc esports. Who knows, maybe one of the many threads on the site might just stir their curiosity enough to watch a FPVOD. How many new non-gamers have you brought into this board?
Klaz is a good commentator and I said so when he was the only other entry into yubee's commentary contest back 2 years ago. Now I have played a lot more and Klaz hasn't improved his game knowledge, so I don't like to watch his videos if he says wrong things, although I'll still watch them from time to time. However, Klazart still has spent the time to doing commentary and his overall word-flow and experience has continued to be a large asset to him - I've recently tried to restart commentaries but I find a lot of the times I get discouraged because of either the time commitment and because of my inability to quickly form adequate word structures without obsessive stuttering (although I think this was easier for me when I was still the only Youtube commentator making commentaries like every day). Klazart is a good commentator who has brought of lot of new people into Starcraft. Yes I think I remember there are instances of him being not too great of a guy outside of commentating but generally I think he's a nice person just doing something for the community and something that he likes.
Everyone talks about things from a game analysis standpoint but to entertain the masses (D-, D) you just need an interesting commentator (Irish accent) who can get excited and talk well.
If he's also spent this tremendous amount on time authoring a novel that is also highly commendable.
Must say I´m disappointed by the attacks on Klaz´s commentaries from some TL members.
I enjoy and support all the established commentators, in random order: Cholera, Tasteless, Artosis, Moletrap, Diggity, Klazart, Rise, NukeTheStars, superDan. Don´t wanna mention those, that rarely put out a commentary. They give me free enjoyable entertainment. Huge thx. for the effort, I love you all. Off course there are commentators I'm not so fond off, I just don't watch those, problem solved.
I remember back in the days with Replay with audio and mp3´s the focus was mainly on teaching, thats good and all, but Klaz was the first who successfully focused on the entertainment value of commentaries.
I think that is an important distinction, is the commentary for entertainment or education? In my mind the biggest success will come from the entertainment segment.
Its like watching a game of soccer on television, no one watches it to become better at actually playing themselves, and of course the league trainers could bash on the television-commentators for being noobs, but that would just be retarded.
On March 24 2009 00:47 Hot_Bid wrote: Can people stop arguing about whether they like Klazart's commentary or not?
This thread is to discuss his book and authonomy.com, please stay on topic. If we head down the "why do people hate Klaz?" road, the result will be lots of bans and closings. Let's just say people have a lot of different opinions on which commentators are good and leave it at that.
Consider this an official warning, 2 day temp bans for people that keep bringing this up.
On March 25 2009 10:55 Piy wrote: Weren't there quite alot of technical faults with the old TL write-ups?
These have dissappeared since they began to get good players to do them, but wasn't that quite a bit after they began taking apart the commentators? I'm not going to stand here and bash the old write-ups, but it seems kind of mean of TL to bully the english commentators so badly due to their lack of knowledge...
I'd just rather everyone could get along and this pointless arguing would just end...
Old being the key word here. Since the current level of accuracy is greater, it is justifiable for people to be judgmental of Klaz. I am not saying that what he does is shit, I think everyone has the right to try to do things they like the way they want to, but there will always be critics and opposing parties and that is normal, it's inevitable.
The way I see it, it's like fastest vs. melee maps on USEast or something. Fastest players being Klazart fans, melee players being TL members that support a higher level of commentating and are critical of his commentaries. If I need to elaborate, let me know.
Yes, you do need to elaborate. For example, which category do you think you belong to? Because judging from your posts in this forum I personally think that you're not even half as knowledgeable as Klazart in terms of Starcraft...
There's a difference between constructive criticism and flaming someone. Especially when it's moderators doing it.. It's fine if you don't like his voice. People are free to like or dislike whatever they want. But when it comes to the technical aspects of commentating, you should stick to "Hey, you could improve this, you could work on that, etc." instead of calling him an amateur and whatnot.
I was about to go through and ban all the people who keep discussing Klaz's commentary quality, as there was a warning and this thread isn't about that, but quickly I realized it would involve banning dozens of users and several staff members (lol).
So instead I'm closing this thread, which deviated far from the original purpose to discuss Klazart and authonomy.com. Feel free to open another thread about it, but if you do, make sure you tell everyone NOT to discuss Klaz's commentary quality or why or why not you like him.
EPT
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