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United States24814 Posts
I'm going to reply to your post without emotion/hate so that it hopefully carries more credence.
On March 02 2009 07:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 07:11 Jusciax wrote:
I have no objections against professional graffiti on some abandoned construction walls which they definitely improve, or in art friendly zones where it's expected to be. But to do it on others property without their consent, doesn't matter how awesome or horrible your graffiti is, is vandalizing, no matter what perverted world views you have in your head ("noone owns anything", "can't ruin something that is blank" - what the fuck). Think about it, once you die what do you take with you? Nothing. As I said you don't own anything. I see this as a way to leave something behind that people can remember me by and so far it has. A lot of people in miami know me because of my graffiti, let alone my art. I rather be remembered than forgotten and never had done something with my life thats out of the ordinary. I don't care if it's illegal or not. I'm still doing it because I enjoy it.
Ownership isn't permanent. It's temporary. Meaning, the fact that you won't retain your property after you die doesn't change the fact that you currently own it. The person who owns a wall has a right to do with it what he wishes, and also has a right to expect nobody else to do stuff to it without permission. Being remembered can happen in many ways. I have yet to see a good reason from anybody for why it's ok to put up your artwork on somebody else's property without permission.
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On March 02 2009 07:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 07:32 Phyre wrote:On March 02 2009 07:30 Rostam wrote:On March 02 2009 07:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 02 2009 07:28 Rostam wrote:On March 02 2009 07:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 02 2009 07:11 Jusciax wrote:
I have no objections against professional graffiti on some abandoned construction walls which they definitely improve, or in art friendly zones where it's expected to be. But to do it on others property without their consent, doesn't matter how awesome or horrible your graffiti is, is vandalizing, no matter what perverted world views you have in your head ("noone owns anything", "can't ruin something that is blank" - what the fuck). Think about it, once you die what do you take with you? Nothing. As I said you don't own anything. I see this as a way to leave something behind that people can remember me by and so far it has. A lot of people in miami know me because of my graffiti, let alone my art. I rather be remembered than forgotten and never had done something with my life thats out of the ordinary. I don't care if it's illegal or not. I'm still doing it because I enjoy it. Here's something I wrote a while ago. I know it sucks but w.e The movement of my soul runs free. It moves like a feather in the wind. Flying high towards the sky, towards the sun. The wind stops, then my soul drops. Drops like the twin towers, what just happened to me? Am I not free to fly anymore? Am I being used like a whore? When will I know? The time has come to face reality, we're not the owners of our own. We die and that's the finale, we claimed nothing, we gained nothing. We don't own anything. So you wouldn't mind if I came to where you live and stole all of your possessions, then? How about your credit card information or your life savings? You don't own any of those, right? But how does graffit and robbing some equal the same thing? You said nobody owns anything. That justifies ruining someone else's property, but not taking it? It's not theirs anyway, what's the difference? Exactly. He has no idea what he's talking about, he's a moron. Yes, I'm a moron as well. Who said I would like to take it? I just want to paint on it.
In order for me to "steal" something from you, you would need to "own" it in the first place. If no one (yourself included) owns anything then it's impossible for me to "steal" anything from you. I'm simply taking something I want that happens to be around, nobody owns it.
You seem to be of the mindset that simply vandalizing something is okay but taking it is not. Which is just ridiculous.
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You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to a graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting others.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either.
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On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting people.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either.
the law is pretty clear on the definition of vandalism
like honestly i wouldn't care if some wall on the side of the highway had cool art, i'd actually like that, but if there was spray paint on the side of my house, i'd be pretty fucking pissed off
edit: and im not comparing it to murder and rape for the sake of like... saying it's on the same level of magnitude, but the law is clear on those, and the law is clear on vandalism, so shockeyy's being inconsistent somewhere if he dosent feel he's in the wrong for vandalism, but people are in the wrong for murder/stealing/raping/etc
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On March 02 2009 07:50 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting people.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either. the law is pretty clear on the definition of vandalism like honestly i wouldn't care if some wall on the side of the highway had cool art, i'd actually like that, but if there was spray paint on the side of my house, i'd be pretty fucking pissed off edit: and im not comparing it to murder and rape for the sake of like... saying it's on the same level of magnitude, but the law is clear on those, and the law is clear on vandalism, so shockeyy's being inconsistent somewhere if he dosent feel he's in the wrong for vandalism, but people are in the wrong for murder/stealing/raping/etc
Well, yeah, I never said weather or not graffiti was wrong or right. Obviously it's an illegal activity.
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United States24814 Posts
On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
People who don't like graffiti in the sense we've been discussing it can justify their opinion, whereas I see no evidence that the other party can. Thus, saying that there's no point in justifying it because we need to agree to disagree, or something like that, is the pro-graffiti believer's attempt to avoid a losing battle.
The closest thing to a counter-argument I've actually seen is that the reason why people don't like graffiti is because they don't understand it. It's entirely possible that you could convert some people, and make them less ignorant on the topic of graffiti by educating them. They might begin to like it (aesthetically etc). But you write on their wall after you've convinced them... not before!
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On March 02 2009 07:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 07:32 Phyre wrote:On March 02 2009 07:30 Rostam wrote:On March 02 2009 07:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 02 2009 07:28 Rostam wrote:On March 02 2009 07:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 02 2009 07:11 Jusciax wrote:
I have no objections against professional graffiti on some abandoned construction walls which they definitely improve, or in art friendly zones where it's expected to be. But to do it on others property without their consent, doesn't matter how awesome or horrible your graffiti is, is vandalizing, no matter what perverted world views you have in your head ("noone owns anything", "can't ruin something that is blank" - what the fuck). Think about it, once you die what do you take with you? Nothing. As I said you don't own anything. I see this as a way to leave something behind that people can remember me by and so far it has. A lot of people in miami know me because of my graffiti, let alone my art. I rather be remembered than forgotten and never had done something with my life thats out of the ordinary. I don't care if it's illegal or not. I'm still doing it because I enjoy it. Here's something I wrote a while ago. I know it sucks but w.e The movement of my soul runs free. It moves like a feather in the wind. Flying high towards the sky, towards the sun. The wind stops, then my soul drops. Drops like the twin towers, what just happened to me? Am I not free to fly anymore? Am I being used like a whore? When will I know? The time has come to face reality, we're not the owners of our own. We die and that's the finale, we claimed nothing, we gained nothing. We don't own anything. So you wouldn't mind if I came to where you live and stole all of your possessions, then? How about your credit card information or your life savings? You don't own any of those, right? But how does graffit and robbing some equal the same thing? You said nobody owns anything. That justifies ruining someone else's property, but not taking it? It's not theirs anyway, what's the difference? Exactly. He has no idea what he's talking about, he's a moron. Yes, I'm a moron as well. Who said I would like to take it? I just want to paint on it.
do you mind if i dip all your money in paint? oh and your clothes? and skin? surely it'll be okay, right
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@theschwa: so then what's your point? i mean i'm not unequivocally anti-graffiti, i'm just saying it's clear that it's illegal and that shockeyy's justifications are bullshit
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On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to a graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting others.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either.
Pft, you graffiti artists hurt people plenty. You hurt people in the same way someone that busts a car up hurts the owner. You are violating someone else's property. You may not be physically harming them directly, but you are wasting their time, effort, and money when they have to go clean up your juvenile vandalism. The only case in which you wouldn't be hurting someone is if they actually wanted your crap on their property. If that was the case, you should just be able to to ask them for permission. But you won't do that because... SURPRISE SURPRISE they don't want it there! In the same way you don't want to get your face riddled with holes they don't want their property covered in your filth.
Bottom line you are disrespecting someone else's wishes with regards to their rightfully owned property. If you dispute that, I hope someone maims you against your wishes and see if you still feel the same.
Edit: As to why I'm being so "rude" it's because I'm listening to people trying to justify hurting others. Like listening to someone justify rape or murder, just to a less extent. It's an attempt to justify doing something that is undeniably wrong unto a victim. This goes beyond letter of the law, this is clearly logically wrong. For that, I hope offenders suffer. And suffer greatly.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I appreciate graffiti if it's done well - there were some totally random and beautifully constructed pieces of it in a small Korean town I went to recently (apparently it's a big hang out for students on break.)
Also in my city back in England they comissioned a graffiti artist to do some amazing murals on the sides of buildings - all cartoonish animals and even a massive pirate ship with these cute little pirates on the side of a local pub - that looked brilliant and really livened up the colors of the area.
It's a real art form in its own right when time and effort are put into creating it. I really don't like those tags that are just slapped onto a wall like that though - they're everywhere in the UK and they just look ugly imho.
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i dunno ... there's something about graffiti juxtaposed with a palm tree that doesn't do it for me in that first pic...
Edit: But i do like the hand in the second one - have you just considered dropping graffiti and doing art? hands are freaking annoying to draw, and you pulled it off stylishly.
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On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to a graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting others.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either.
They were not comparing this kind of vandalism to rape and murder, they were just taking ShocKeyy's arguments and applying them to something else in order show how unreasonable the arguments were.
@ShoCkeyy
The wall looked much better before, you wall rapist. Spray paint the walls of your own living room instead, or try your parents car? After all, they don't really own it, right? I'm sure you would be remembered for that.
By the way, the miami police department has an online form for reporting tips and leads.
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On March 02 2009 08:01 Phyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 07:48 TheSchwA wrote:
You honestly can't compare rapists, murderers, or other people on that level to a graffiti writer, that's just plain silly. People who write graffiti have no intentions of hurting others.
Phyre, I really don't understand why you're being so rude about this, from what I read no one made any personal remarks about you, or at least I didn't.
Honestly, there's no point in justifying graffiti, everyone has their own opinions, which no one is going to change or alter in any way, obviously. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
EDIT: Don't consider ShoCckey as an example of a graffiti writer because he has no clue what he's talking about either. Pft, you graffiti artists hurt people plenty. You hurt people in the same way someone that busts a car up hurts the owner. You are violating someone else's property. You may not be physically harming them directly, but you are wasting their time, effort, and money when they have to go clean up your juvenile vandalism. The only case in which you wouldn't be hurting someone is if they actually wanted your crap on their property. If that was the case, you should just be able to to ask them for permission. But you won't do that because... SURPRISE SURPRISE they don't want it there! In the same way you don't want to get your face riddled with holes they don't want their property covered in your filth. Bottom line you are disrespecting someone else's wishes with regards to their rightfully owned property. If you dispute that, I hope someone maims you against your wishes and see if you still feel the same. Edit: As to why I'm being so "rude" it's because I'm listening to people trying to justify hurting others. Like listening to someone justify rape or murder, just to a less extent. It's an attempt to justify doing something that is undeniably wrong unto a victim. This goes beyond letter of the law, this is clearly logically wrong. For that, I hope offenders suffer. And suffer greatly.
You're like a child. And you're unbelievably ridiculous. Do you read what you type? "For that, I hope offenders suffer. And suffer greatly." Are you being serious right now? You're little personal vendetta against graffiti is laughable. What, did you get beat up by a writer when you were little or something?
Oh well, life's a bitch. You're not going to keep people from writing graffiti, so I suggest you get over it.
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dude its not even good lol. the wall is nice and wall.... you ruined it, do it to abandoned buildings or something.
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what the fuck is with this pseudo-philosophical bullshit. it's fucking stupid and one of the main reasons philosophy is looked down upon, cut that shit out. "oh im free like the feather in forrest gump so im gonna go tag on some walls" the fuck man? graffiti in some respects is an art form but it has nothing to do with risk or gaining respect through vandalizing other peoples' shit. want risk? go jump a 100ft ramp or something or become a demolition engineer. yeah sometimes it's nice to see a graffiti'd wall in contrast to the boring old plain white or dull gray but that's because it's A) consented graffiti B) it looks colorful, alive, and passionate. you dont draw some scribbly shit on a wall and say "oh look at that i made this wall so much better". the fuck you did. i couldve taken a pile of dog shit and made it look nicer fuck i couldve given 15 toddlers some crayons and it'd come out more artful. it doesn't look nice, it's not art, it's stupid and disrespectful, it's costing people money, and no one cares about your graffiti "underground". you think oh man we're such unique free spirits and no one thinks as freely as us so they don't understand our artform. newflash: people know and they dont care.
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You can argue people don't understand graffiti from art point of view thus they don't see its beauty. But people aren't against it because of it's aesthetic value, they are against it because most of the time it is done illegally and damaging property.
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Osaka27180 Posts
On March 02 2009 07:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:Yes I'm a piece of shit because I don't agree with the way you agree with society, that's amazing. Just shows how much of a hypocrite some one can be.
No, you are a piece of shit because you ruin something that does not belong to you. I see ZERO difference between you tagging the outside of somebody's garage and tagging the inside of their living room. You are tresspassing on both accounts, and vandalizing their property.
Now I am sure that you can admit tagging someone's living room would be "over the line". Please explain to me the difference between someone's garage and living room.
This is not art. It is a signature. Nothing more.
Also, no one will remember you for tagging. No one. The only people that recognize it are little scum bags friends of yours that do the same thing. To 99.99% of the population, you are simply a criminal.
Before you say it is a victimless act, please keep in mind that people have to pay to have your signature removed. Graffiti has been corrolated with crime, and reduces the value of homes. You are quite literally costing people money if they leave it up or pay to take it away.
But unfortunately, you are probably to retarded to understand any of this, so that is why I resorted to calling you a piece of shit. I thought that might make it through your fume permeated brain.
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On March 02 2009 08:15 TheSchwA wrote:
Oh well, life's a bitch. You're not going to keep people from writing graffiti, so I suggest you get over it.
So just because you can't stop something there is no point to argue against it either? I doubt there will be a stop to murder, rape and theft also. Does that mean we should just yawn, accept all of it, lean back and enjoy our ride in space time?
EDIT:
@ShoCkeyy
And since mahnini brought up the philosophy bullshit, it's just a way for you to justify what you do, a bad excuse. I strongly doubt that you even believe it yourself.
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It's so hilarious how you're bringing up the fact that people have to pay to paint over it, ever realized that we're tax payers as well? Also, quit bring up the stupid "oh we shouldn't worry about rapists, murderers, is that what you're saying?" So basically you're getting your panties in a twist because of some spray paint on a wall instead of murderers, or the likes.Too many other things to worry about.
But, like I said, you're not going to stop people from writing, get over it.
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EPT
