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Five Gameplay elements that should NOT be in SC2 - Page 2

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naventus
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1338 Posts
August 13 2008 20:03 GMT
#21
On August 14 2008 04:59 OakHill wrote:
Hi Naventus, thanks for your interest in my thread! I do not which to reveal my account at this time because I am still learning to play at a high level. I've followed the last 2 seasons of GoM TV closely and have watched many other of the vods hosted on this site since the date I joined (maybe a year ago? Not sure). Thank you for your post and interest in my level of skill at SC: BW. Although I may have said something like "Getting B" is easy, it is only because I was drunk and I do not believe that at all. Thanks for your feedback.


Hi Oakhill, thanks for your interest in my reply. I do not "which" to to tell you why you are a dumbass and this thread is stupid. But, I have followed your dumbass posts in the SC2 forum and read your troll threads. Thank you for your post and the complete revelation of your idiocy. Thanks for your feedback.

P.S. You suck at WC3 and SC.
hmm.
OakHill
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States168 Posts
August 13 2008 20:09 GMT
#22
On August 14 2008 05:03 naventus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2008 04:59 OakHill wrote:
Hi Naventus, thanks for your interest in my thread! I do not which to reveal my account at this time because I am still learning to play at a high level. I've followed the last 2 seasons of GoM TV closely and have watched many other of the vods hosted on this site since the date I joined (maybe a year ago? Not sure). Thank you for your post and interest in my level of skill at SC: BW. Although I may have said something like "Getting B" is easy, it is only because I was drunk and I do not believe that at all. Thanks for your feedback.


Hi Oakhill, thanks for your interest in my reply. I do not "which" to to tell you why you are a dumbass and this thread is stupid. But, I have followed your dumbass posts in the SC2 forum and read your troll threads. Thank you for your post and the complete revelation of your idiocy. Thanks for your feedback.

P.S. You suck at WC3 and SC.


Hi Naventus, I am glad you have taken an interest in my threads. Thanks for your post and constructive criticism, and good luck with your training regimen for attaining B+.
the_earth
Profile Joined June 2008
Vatican City State11 Posts
August 13 2008 20:13 GMT
#23
On August 14 2008 04:53 naventus wrote:
This has everything to do with you being a presumptuous cockbag posting drivel without having ever played SC. That's even worse that you are not the real Bei either. What a fucking retard.

Let's see your 1400 account. All I could find is this 1-2 and 0-1 950 newb.
http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/288411/

Maybe you shouldn't go around blowing so much hot air about gameplay if you don't know shit?


Maybe you should refute his arguments instead of throwing insults around. You seem very sure that you know his suggestions are bullshit. Would you care to explain it to me? I don't understand.
no saturate
naventus
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1338 Posts
August 13 2008 20:20 GMT
#24
There aren't any arguments to refute. If you want to play theorycraft with the troll all day, I don't care. I just wanted to call him out on it.
hmm.
the_earth
Profile Joined June 2008
Vatican City State11 Posts
August 13 2008 20:20 GMT
#25
Okay...
no saturate
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
August 13 2008 20:24 GMT
#26
http://77.251.196.241:200/oakhill.rep
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
August 13 2008 20:31 GMT
#27
On August 14 2008 04:40 OakHill wrote:
Also, only the first account was mine, it is a throwback to a former professional RoC player known as Bei.


Holy fucking shit i used to LOVE bei, most amazing creative player ever, loved his UD, I checked all the internet 3 times to find any of them.

Geez, man, great memories there!

(Angrykorean was quite fun too ^^)
Resistance ain't futile
OakHill
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 20:38:59
August 13 2008 20:38 GMT
#28
On August 14 2008 05:31 Yank31 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2008 04:40 OakHill wrote:
Also, only the first account was mine, it is a throwback to a former professional RoC player known as Bei.


Holy fucking shit i used to LOVE bei, most amazing creative player ever, loved his UD, I checked all the internet 3 times to find any of them.

Geez, man, great memories there!

(Angrykorean was quite fun too ^^)


I'm actually friends with AKM, he goes by Roqu on Starcraft.

Anyways here's a more recent replay of me:

http://www.fighterreplays.com/starcraft/replays/5deb28

The other one was like my 3rd game on BNet (If it's the replay I think you posted). Heaton was nice enough to give me some tips, like don't get pushed back to ramp, range needs to be gotten quicker, etc.
antiq
Profile Joined June 2008
Slovakia191 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 21:20:04
August 13 2008 20:54 GMT
#29
Many goons, yes? (replay..)

Anyway, I can't say anything about the balance of SC2 as I didn't have a chance to play it yet, but as someone already said, I think that the stacking thing of mutas should be kept just for historical reasons, it would make many people angry (and you don't wanna see TLnetters angry obviously). You make some good points about it, but don't worry, there will be plenty of micro involved when mutas get targeted by splash damage (my first thought was like hey, irradi.. waait Oo no vessels). And I don't know if you tried the stacked muta micro, it's not that easy like "click once and they stack and stay that way".. but you probably know that already.

Anyway - open mind is a good thing but don't go against a wall of hardcore fans (open mind = brain could fall out), at least not before the game is out and we can try it and confirm the issues.


edit::
And if you were being sarcastic, then this is officially my fail-week.
bp1696
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States288 Posts
August 13 2008 20:55 GMT
#30
What is with the hate in this thread? So what if the OP's not super awesome at BW? He's making suggestions for SC2, not BW 1.5. If you want to criticize those suggestions, make rational arguments against him, and not irrelevant personal attacks.
Sleep is for the fishes
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 21:19:36
August 13 2008 21:14 GMT
#31
you cant get any stupider than this
Stacking brings micro. If you cant focus fire, deal with it.

Massing tanks gay? Yes. Defeatable? Very. So why are you wanting to nerf tanks when you cant accept them as a staple to Terran?

Map issues = map maker, not the game.

And wtf do you have against improving the AI? I'd honestly rather use a smarter AI than a dumbfuck AI.

From what i can see, you still have problems dealing with muta harass and pushes.
im deaf
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19141 Posts
August 13 2008 21:16 GMT
#32
This thread officially killed the last remaining bit of my inner child.
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
Polis
Profile Joined January 2005
Poland1292 Posts
August 13 2008 21:22 GMT
#33
D but the progress is steady.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 21:26:57
August 13 2008 21:26 GMT
#34
What the hell? Since when do units ignore allied collision in SC2?

Proof?
OakHill
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States168 Posts
August 13 2008 21:47 GMT
#35
On August 14 2008 06:26 teamsolid wrote:
What the hell? Since when do units ignore allied collision in SC2?

Proof?


That's what I've read HERE from what it sounds like. Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken. If it functions just like "Warcraft" then it won't be a problem.
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
August 13 2008 21:53 GMT
#36
No. You made it up yourself to try to ridicule those that complained about it, Mr. part-time semi pro.
moebius_string
Profile Joined December 2007
United States264 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 22:25:51
August 13 2008 21:56 GMT
#37
On August 14 2008 04:01 OakHill wrote:
About OakHill:
OakHill is a part time semi-pro Warcraft III player considered by many to be the second best Random player in the United States. OakHill has NOT played Starcraft 2 but has followed the game's progress very closely. Please note these are his OPINIONS and he is looking to actively discuss these OPINIONS with other member's of the community. If every single reply is a disagreement he will do his best to reply or refute arguments in a timely manner. These suggestions are for SC2 and NOT SC: BW, he realizes for example that terrans NEED siege tanks vs protoss because marine medic is near impossible to pull off.

So now I'll get straight to the point:

Unit Stacking
What's the deal?
That's right, Unit stacking. Primarily Muta Stacking. A core staple of Starcraft: BW gameplay, this gameplay element should have no place in Stractaft II.

Explain yourself
Because MBS is obviously in, and macro is reduced to gas gimmicks and tapping a key more, micro will obviously be at the forefront and macro cycles will take very little time, barely even requiring to go back to the base. I REALIZE people have sad Mutalisks suck already, mainly because they can't "dance" or stack. Blizzard said they are fixing this so I am assuming both features will be added back. Stacking is a silly gameplay element, it is a bug. It makes air units too powerful and reduces the ability for the opposing player to focus fire and requires zero defensive micro.

What solution do you have?
Get rid of stacking, keep or add dancing. Improve life regeneration slightly to warrant defensive micro. I thinking them grouping together to SOME degree is okay, as long as you can still select or attack individual ones. If this makes them obsolete in SC2, then improve ground DPS or damage.

Terran Reliance on Siege Tanks
What's the deal?
Massing a stationary battle unit is bad gameplay.

Explain yourself
Having a unit with insane range and requiring zero micromanagement immediately after the siege upgrade is ridiculous. SIEGE tanks should be support units (like in TvZ) and not massed units (as seen in TvP). Supposedly they are stronger than even in SC: BW.

What solution do you have?
Many. Increase damage output and lower overall DPS, making them less effective in battles. OR, increase their damage vs buildings and lower damage vs non-caster units, maybe increasing aoe damage to compensate and require micro in battles (to produce optimal splash damage). Increase collision size. Increase food cost to five. This will make them support units. I am not suggesting ALL of these, maybe a combination of one or two.

NOTE: IF SIEGE TANKS ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING MASSED THEN DISREGARD THIS SUGGESTION.

Small Ramps
What's the deal?
Small ramps, as seen in Python or other various maps have no place in SC2.

Explain yourself
It should be the player's job to design their base or position units to deny scouting. Bases should have chokes but not ramps where you can simply put 1 unit on and press H. With the new "zero vision" line of sight from above element in SC2, a small ramp like this is simply too powerful at the entrance of a base.

What solution do you have?
Don't have small ramps at the entrance of bases.

Narrow Map Design
What's the deal?
Narrow map design, or having one land path between you and your opponent diminishes strategy.

Explain yourself
I feel STRATEGY in an RTS should play some role.

What dumb solution(s) do you have

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
Ok that was a joke, but clever map design would be nice. I have faith in Blizzard.




Auto Surrounding
What's the deal?
Apparently units will "wrap" around other units of yours (even through their collision) instead of going completely around. TL members have described this as "auto-surrounding" I believe. This DOESN'T need to go completely, it just needs to be changed.


Explain yourself
Warcraft III has this to some degree, units will auto surround but it is far slower than SC2 and they do not go through allied units collision. Starcraft:BW has each unit hesitate for about 1/4 a second before wrapping around.

What solution do you have?
Make it like Warcraft III. They don't go through allied units but they still wrap around.


UNIT STACKING-

I hate how ungainly WC3 air units operated in groups compared to SC so I would have to say I wouldn't mind if Blizzard did implement stacking in SC2, but I doubt they will ultimately do it.

TERRAN RELIANCE ON SIEGE TANKS-

Blizzard seems to have already changed this.

SMALL RAMPS,NARROW MAP DESIGN-

Like everyone said before, but I wonder if the professional SC2 tournaments will rely on Blizzard maps to the degree that they do in WC3?

AUTO SURROUNDING-

I'm going to have to play the game before I come down one way or the other on this. Ghoul surround in WC3 is OK, but I'm not going to make a call until I play for myself.
FBH is insurance.
SpiritAshura
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1271 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 22:00:00
August 13 2008 21:59 GMT
#38
On August 14 2008 04:01 OakHill wrote:
About OakHill:
OakHill is a part time semi-pro Warcraft III player considered by many to be the second best Random player in the United States.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5468 Posts
August 13 2008 22:11 GMT
#39
About OakHill:
OakHill is a part time semi-pro Warcraft III player considered by many to be the second best Random player in the United States.


Who? Source?

Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-13 22:20:16
August 13 2008 22:13 GMT
#40
On August 14 2008 07:11 SoleSteeler wrote:
Show nested quote +
About OakHill:
OakHill is a part time semi-pro Warcraft III player considered by many to be the second best Random player in the United States.


Who? Source?


OakHill and the any voices in his head.

Going to bed now so don't have time to read through the thread to tell if it should be closed or not, sorry =P
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
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