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I know that this feature will be in the game (hopefully removed for Tempests and Reavers, though). Personally I hope that there won't be autocast on any ability but - I have a site about Armies of Exigo (Dustin should know about it - EA killed the game - but negative feelings aside). It was a game created by some of the top Hungarian SC players and was what wc3 should have been in the eyes of SC players.
This site has alot of the information on the game (such as how veterancy system has been made compatible with the game with SC mechanics) and how auto-cast has been implemented:
http://www.zedas.hu/exigo/
Empire (humans) had 2 auto-casted abilities/spells out of 19 - one of them being heal (just like medics) and the other being enchant (both - the caster and the target are immobilized untill mana runs out).
Beast (animal humanoids) had 2 auto-casted abilities/spells out of 21 - one of them being speed boost (20% faster attack speed, while enemy units deal 20% more damage to units influenced by the spell) and the other being spell abduction (steals enemy spells just like Spell Breakers in wc3 did).
Fallen had also 2 auto-casted abilities/spells out of 19 - one of them being necromancy (sceletons out of dead bodies - humanoid bodies only IIRC) and the other being frost shield (armour of the influenced units improves).
All in all - abilities/spells that could "go wrong" (be stupidly used) due to auto-cast were not given it but spells that were meant to be casted the way auto-cast would cast them (or so) were given auto-cast.
Thoughts?
KaerbEmEvig on brother's account once again.
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Starcraft can have 1 of ~50 on autocast - Heal.
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I don't think anything at all will be auto-cast in SC2 except heal, like lololol says
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smartcast is a great idea, i think.. you shouldn't dumb down the interface for a game just to satisfy the most hardcore players...
however, you shouldn't make the game too "automatic"... it's a balance that you have to feel for while actually playing the game, and i have faith in blizzard in delivering a fine experience somewhere in between
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Then don't think - read=S. Blizzard has already said that reaver's scarabs will be autocast, tempest shurikens will be autocast, charge will be autocast. Maybe you should actually try to persuade Blizzard that only abilities like those I have mentioned should be autocast. If you won't do anything about it, the game will turn out like wc3.
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I've heard enough complaints about potential auto cast to make me vomit. But if it means anything, I agree that Blizzard should not make every spell autocast. NEVER MENTION THIS AGAIN.
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Tempest/Reaver autocast is stupid. What if you have a limited amount of minerals that you need to spend on other things?
*EDIT*
Nevermind, I just realized you would probably be able to turn it off just like in WC3...
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On July 14 2007 10:02 maybenexttime wrote:
Then don't think - read=S. Blizzard has already said that reaver's scarabs will be autocast, tempest shurikens will be autocast, charge will be autocast. Maybe you should actually try to persuade Blizzard that only abilities like those I have mentioned should be autocast. If you won't do anything about it, the game will turn out like wc3.
If you mention charge then obviously Arbiter's invisibility field is autocast, too!
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lurker need auto burrow when attack-move, just like defiler need auto consume. lol.
seriously, repair is a candidate for autocast, even oov has trouble repairing 36 wraiths.
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I've said this before in another thread:
the spells in Starcraft are not ones that you would WANT autocast.
I don't want my ghost to lockdown the first thing he sees, I don't want my HT to storm the first thing he sees, etc.
There's no way spells like those will be autocast. (Smartcast is different)
Even in War3, not EVERYTHING is autocast you know? Spells that are more specific are not autocast at all in that game. The only spells that were are the ones that would benefit/disable a unit equally in all ways... Like you want all your units to have bloodlust, you want all your enemies to be slowed. You don't want to cast ensare on a random peasant in the battle, which is why ensare isn't autocast.
Reavers/Tempests autobuild isn't 'autocast' to me. It's not like you'll have it ALWAYS set, what if you need the resources, there'll still be some micromanagement necessary to ensure you don't waste it.
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the only skills that are autocast in WC3 are buffs/debuffs, where you need to buff an army or debuff ...an enemy army
there aren't really casters that cast buffs in SC, not in the sense of WC3. (side note: that enchant ability shouldn't have been autocast in the OP).
Im sure blizzard has a criteria for what is to be autocast and what isint. Anything repetitive and mundane will be autocasted. Honestly, you don't really gain anything when your tempests and reavers autobuild, and your opponent doesn't really lose anything. Unless you count on 1 in 200 games when you encounter a lone reaver on the edge of a base that has no scarabs in it, but that was you just getting ridiculously lucky.
I cant possibly imagine lockdown being autocast, in WC3 cyclone is the closest thing and its not autocasted. Dont worry about it
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I completely agree with SoleSteeler two posts up.
Also, I think this game should be about fights on the battlefield, and not about the player fighting with the controls. Therefore I appreciate things like autocasting, auto gathering, unlimited unit selection and multiple structure selection, even though scrolling back to a base during a fight to select all factories after each other to produce units might have been a strategic decision in SC:Broodwar.
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Clearly autocast will be used for boring and nobrainer tasks. Hitting r or i repeatdly when using reavers or carriers doesn't add any falvor to the game. I just hope they'll give us a hotkey combination to toggle autocast on or off (example : ctrl+ability hotkey)
I'm totally for smart cast. Interface is fully in its rôle when it react in the way you intend to. When you have a bunch of caster selected and launch a non stackable special ability of course, you don't want them to cast all at once. Its not a matter of the UI thinking in place the player, just the UI doing what he exactly wants to, in a situation where there is no doubt about the player's intend.
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I think this is a legitimate concern. Things like reaver/interceptor on autocast is acceptable, but something like zealot charge probably shouldn't be autocast.
autocast in war3 was okay balance-wise as the spells that were autocast were spammable, low mana, and generally weak compared to the manual casted spells. the game would have been MUCH better all around if all the autocast spells were balanced as manual casted abilities (return of the triple damage bloodlust, etc)
the whole reason war3 was bad wasn't so much autocast directly, it was that all of the "oh shit" factor was concentrated into the heroes. there weren't mega-threatening units such as templar, lurkers, siege tanks - things that made you feel threatened. autocast was just one facet of the whole problem with the game, the bulk of your army felt extremely bland and anyone who thinks war3 takes more micro than starcraft really doesn't know how to micro at all.
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From what I have seen, I highly doubt charge would be somewhat castable. It appears to be an automatic side effect of attacking/engaging. Wondering whether it should be or not autocast is pointless, as it's more of a passive ability.
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agreed. Its not a spell or ability, but rather the new mode in for zealot attack. Zealots always had the problem of getting slaughtered on their way to engaging an enemy. The last 30 pixels were particularly precarious. Im sure everyone has had that experience.
Lockdown could benefit the most from smartcast, as well as nuke and so forth. Storm they should probably leave open, as that one could go wither way - you either wanted all 24 storms over one area or you didnt, no way to tell.
On a side not, I hope that for T they allow a drag feature for loading dropships. Having to click units in annoying when Im trying to load one large group.
(If anyone says THIS IS THE DEATH OF MICRO bleh bleh bleh ill find you and kill you. Remember, I have your (IP) addresses)
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On July 15 2007 07:03 Zanno wrote:
I think this is a legitimate concern. Things like reaver/interceptor on autocast is acceptable, but something like zealot charge probably shouldn't be autocast.
i'm pretty sure the charge ability will be a passive thing, that triggers automatically when they get within range... they're not "cast"
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Of course, Charge should be coded that it only activates when a unit is under attack/attack-move commands or when they're stopped. Held Position units and Moving units shouldn't Charge if something runs through their field of vision. I'm sure Blizzard has thought of that already though.
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On July 15 2007 10:37 Gokey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 07:03 Zanno wrote:
I think this is a legitimate concern. Things like reaver/interceptor on autocast is acceptable, but something like zealot charge probably shouldn't be autocast. i'm pretty sure the charge ability will be a passive thing, that triggers automatically when they get within range... they're not "cast" well, it's kind of a blurry line here. usually passives are some sort of persistent effect that either comes into affect when you attack or are attacked. either way, if you can't control it at all, that's pretty much a waste of an ability imo, and if it's their idea for a replacement upgrade for legs, then that's even worse. the ability would still require more skill if it was more along the lines of "stimpack with a cooldown and a really short duration"
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On July 15 2007 11:36 Zanno wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 10:37 Gokey wrote:On July 15 2007 07:03 Zanno wrote:
I think this is a legitimate concern. Things like reaver/interceptor on autocast is acceptable, but something like zealot charge probably shouldn't be autocast. i'm pretty sure the charge ability will be a passive thing, that triggers automatically when they get within range... they're not "cast" well, it's kind of a blurry line here. usually passives are some sort of persistent effect that either comes into affect when you attack or are attacked. either way, if you can't control it at all, that's pretty much a waste of an ability imo, and if it's their idea for a replacement upgrade for legs, then that's even worse. the ability would still require more skill if it was more along the lines of "stimpack with a cooldown and a really short duration"
But charge is exactly a persistent effect when you attack 
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On July 15 2007 10:19 treckin wrote:
Lockdown could benefit the most from smartcast, as well as nuke and so forth. Storm they should probably leave open, as that one could go wither way - you either wanted all 24 storms over one area or you didnt, no way to tell.=)
Storm doesn't stack damage, so there'd be no reason not to smartcast (other than the magic box). Or were you joking...?
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I think they should actually remove autocast for medic heal in real starcraft. What if I wanna conserve the energy for something better?
And besides, TvZ is way too easy anyway.
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On July 15 2007 12:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 10:19 treckin wrote:
Lockdown could benefit the most from smartcast, as well as nuke and so forth. Storm they should probably leave open, as that one could go wither way - you either wanted all 24 storms over one area or you didnt, no way to tell.=) Storm doesn't stack damage, so there'd be no reason not to smartcast (other than the magic box). Or were you joking...?
I pretty sure he meant magic boxes. There is no doubt there should be a way to cast more than one storm at once in SC2, very similar to all the options in SC1. I've mentioned these before, but it's such a huge deal I'm going to mention them again.
A. cast storm twice on one unit using 2 templar.
1. If you space them correctly, one casts, then a second later another casts. That way you can do 150 or 200 damage or so easily for tightly grouped lurkers or tanks that only require a little more than 1 storm to kill.
2. Other applications as well, like storming tanks on a ledge, etc. when you can't afford to wait for goon shots to hit or miss. 3. Also useful if you suspect one templar is going to die before he can cast, but the 2nd will probably make it, and it's worth the sacrifice or wasted mana due to situation.
4. If you are casting on fast moving units that can make it through one storm (SCVs or Mutas) and you know your first storm will only do 50 dmg or less, and want closer to 100 dmg, you space your templar correctly and storm on the one unit (which is usually stacked with many other units). First storm hits, does 50 dmg, the unit keeps moving, the 2nd storm hits the unit and finishes or at least does more dmg.
B. spread cast storm using magic boxes. Obvious uses.
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On July 14 2007 10:13 teh leet newb wrote:
Tempest/Reaver autocast is stupid. What if you have a limited amount of minerals that you need to spend on other things?
*EDIT*
Nevermind, I just realized you would probably be able to turn it off just like in WC3...
I'd like to point out we don't even know for sure if they cost resources.
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On July 15 2007 19:02 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 12:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:On July 15 2007 10:19 treckin wrote:
Lockdown could benefit the most from smartcast, as well as nuke and so forth. Storm they should probably leave open, as that one could go wither way - you either wanted all 24 storms over one area or you didnt, no way to tell.=) Storm doesn't stack damage, so there'd be no reason not to smartcast (other than the magic box). Or were you joking...? I pretty sure he meant magic boxes. There is no doubt there should be a way to cast more than one storm at once in SC2, very similar to all the options in SC1. I've mentioned these before, but it's such a huge deal I'm going to mention them again. A. cast storm twice on one unit using 2 templar. 1. If you space them correctly, one casts, then a second later another casts. That way you can do 150 or 200 damage or so easily for tightly grouped lurkers or tanks that only require a little more than 1 storm to kill. 2. Other applications as well, like storming tanks on a ledge, etc. when you can't afford to wait for goon shots to hit or miss. 3. Also useful if you suspect one templar is going to die before he can cast, but the 2nd will probably make it, and it's worth the sacrifice or wasted mana due to situation. 4. If you are casting on fast moving units that can make it through one storm (SCVs or Mutas) and you know your first storm will only do 50 dmg or less, and want closer to 100 dmg, you space your templar correctly and storm on the one unit (which is usually stacked with many other units). First storm hits, does 50 dmg, the unit keeps moving, the 2nd storm hits the unit and finishes or at least does more dmg. B. spread cast storm using magic boxes. Obvious uses.
I would like to see magic boxes work in some way even when you click on a unit. For example, sometimes they enemy is so packed together that its difficult to storm because you might accidentally click on a unit and mess everything up. I'd like smartcast and magic-box cast to be togglable in as many situations as possible (storm, web, ensare, recall, swarm...).
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I say just make autocast optional for specific abilities. There are time when I'd want a reaver to auto attack, and other times when I wouldn't.
Same with any other ability in the game.
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On July 15 2007 19:02 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 12:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:On July 15 2007 10:19 treckin wrote:
Lockdown could benefit the most from smartcast, as well as nuke and so forth. Storm they should probably leave open, as that one could go wither way - you either wanted all 24 storms over one area or you didnt, no way to tell.=) Storm doesn't stack damage, so there'd be no reason not to smartcast (other than the magic box). Or were you joking...? I pretty sure he meant magic boxes. There is no doubt there should be a way to cast more than one storm at once in SC2, very similar to all the options in SC1. I've mentioned these before, but it's such a huge deal I'm going to mention them again. A. cast storm twice on one unit using 2 templar. 1. If you space them correctly, one casts, then a second later another casts. That way you can do 150 or 200 damage or so easily for tightly grouped lurkers or tanks that only require a little more than 1 storm to kill. 2. Other applications as well, like storming tanks on a ledge, etc. when you can't afford to wait for goon shots to hit or miss. 3. Also useful if you suspect one templar is going to die before he can cast, but the 2nd will probably make it, and it's worth the sacrifice or wasted mana due to situation. 4. If you are casting on fast moving units that can make it through one storm (SCVs or Mutas) and you know your first storm will only do 50 dmg or less, and want closer to 100 dmg, you space your templar correctly and storm on the one unit (which is usually stacked with many other units). First storm hits, does 50 dmg, the unit keeps moving, the 2nd storm hits the unit and finishes or at least does more dmg. B. spread cast storm using magic boxes. Obvious uses.
Seriously, there is no point in having the magic boxes, because you have to waste time spacing the casters beforehand, and with smart cast it's just one click and virtually no time lost, it's just way better.
On July 15 2007 22:12 rpf wrote:
I say just make autocast optional for specific abilities. There are time when I'd want a reaver to auto attack, and other times when I wouldn't.
Same with any other ability in the game.
Autocast is ALWAYS optional in WC3.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I actually agree with your post Amir, but I just don't think there's any way blizzard is going to copy the interface straight off starcraft, so it's more constructive to try to make sure it has as much room for dexterical superiority (if that's a word :D) as possible.
Hopefully it will be demanding enough to make the game fun and there'll be enough new stuff incorporated to make the game as/more demanding overall.
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Only units whos abilities call for autocast should have autocast. In bw that was only medic. You can call zealots ability passive all you want but the "passive ability" is still being autocasted when it shouldn't be it's just another way for blizz to make it easy on noobs and take out fun stuff. The charge moves so fast that microing against has little to no effect. They to make it a user cast ability and slow it down.
I have to say if theres any unnecessary smartcasting and autocasting it will probably ruin the game.
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>HOW FUN would it be if i could controll 12 vessles and cast irridate with "smartcast"????? PLEASE >ZERG tell me?? How fun would that be :'( THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME!!
for of course there will be science vessels and irradiate will function in the same way in Starcraft 2... And thanks for calling us "retards" when we just think caster management becomes artificially bothersome when armies grow in size...
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auto mining, multiple building selections, auto casts, and there is going to be no creeps, if all turns out like this blizzard better implement a lot of other factors to keep a player busy. If they dont professional sc2 players are going to get less respect then pro w3 gamers....
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whats more important to remember is it doesnt really matter what's wrong with the game in it's initial release because everything can and will be nerfed/fixed if it creates balance issues....If you played the original SC you'd feel like you were playing a different game...150 spawn pool...goons built fast as fuck etc...
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On July 14 2007 12:00 anch wrote:
lurker need auto burrow when attack-move, just like defiler need auto consume. lol.
seriously, repair is a candidate for autocast, even oov has trouble repairing 36 wraiths.
This comment actually made me think of using A-move with lurkers in SC now. You cant. And i always found this really annoying when I had a group of mixed units and i couldnt tell them to attack move, had to remove the lurkers from the group before it allowed you. That being said i dont know if this is limited to having the lurker the group leader (first in line of portraits). IE: if a zergling is group leader and lurks are somewhere else in the group if they are still limited by that or not. Too lazy to go test it now ;p
Either way it would be nice if "non-default-attack" (lol) units could be told to attack move. Yeah, im sure this is implemented, but thought i would bring it up ;p.
2. Other applications as well, like storming tanks on a ledge, etc. when you can't afford to wait for goon shots to hit or miss. 3. Also useful if you suspect one templar is going to die before he can cast, but the 2nd will probably make it, and it's worth the sacrifice or wasted mana due to situation.~Blacklizard
This got me thinking, templar cant cast a storm on area that cant see now[in SC] can they? (maybe im wrong) If so then since the new fog of war doesnt reveal say, tanks firing from higher ground, then will a templar be able to target them with a storm? 
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epic bump, every been to disneyland?
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EPT
