|
On May 17 2020 22:44 Nakajin wrote: If I had to give my 2 cent, I would assume it's partly because SC2 is a computer game and as such to have become a professional player you probably needed access to a personnal computer in the early 2000, since more non white didn't have the luxury of having access to a personnal computer in their early age, either because their household had a single familly computer that they had to share with everyone else or no home computer at all, RTS games in general got less popular within those community.
For exemple, the FGC and console esport in general is a lot more diverse probably partly due to the fact that console, especially back then were a more economical option. It's only for gaming but all the kids can share it and if you didn't have one, you could still play at your friends houses with them.
I'm sure there's other more cultural reason, but I assume this has some impact on it.
Yes! This is probably the most logical answer. If you go check out XBOX or PlayStation esports games, you'll find a lot more diversity.
There are loads of african-americans playing as COD pros. A lot of hispanics too. The same goes for Gears of War. Most players are either african americans or hispanics. Another example of this are Street Fighter, Smash Bros and other Fighting Games, where you have a lot more people from african descent being pros, and even some from the Dominican Republic and other poor Latin countries.
The fact is that most people that are now pros, grew up in the 90s and, in order to be a pro player, you need to play from an young age. As it was said by Nakajin, the african american community was underprivileged, which means they relied more on XBOX, Nintendos and PlayStation to play and not in the more expensive option, the pc. Also, going to the arcade and play StreetFighter or games like that is cheaper then buying a console or a pc.
The same goes for the asian community. They were poor, but you see many pro players, and why? Because PC Cafes became popular and were cheap, which gave them the opportunity to play PC games.
Everything in this world is explained by history and economics.
|
On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah
|
The comment has two parts - "is" and "ought". The former is just descriptive, while the latter implies some value judgement.
I) It *is* objectively accurate to say that most professional SC2 players are of European and Asian descent, which can be backed by simple statistics
II) However, inserting the value judgment that this is bad (you say "it's not in a good way") requires an extra step. Can you elaborate on why is it bad? Does it require fixing? How would it be better if there was more diversity?
There are a number of huge games such as Persona 5, Crossfire (#1 game), or Garena Free Fire with a much less diverse base. Compared to SC2, do you consider these games, or their player bases worse?
|
Canada8773 Posts
On May 17 2020 23:33 seopthi wrote: The comment has two parts - "is" and "ought". The former is just descriptive, while the latter implies some value judgement.
I) It *is* objectively accurate to say that most professional SC2 players are of European and Asian descent, which can be backed by simple statistics
II) However, inserting the value judgment that this is bad (you say "it's not in a good way") requires an extra step. Can you elaborate on why is it bad? Does it require fixing? How would it be better if there was more diversity?
There are a number of huge games such as Persona 5, Crossfire (#1 game), or Garena Free Fire with a much less diverse base. Compared to SC2, do you consider these games, or their player bases worse?
Well even if we put apart the philosophical arguments, I think we can agree it could be at time a pretty lonely experience to be the only person in your particular slice of society in a group.
I'd be curious about the OP experience (well or any other people) if they played SC1-2 with their family member/ no-white friends?
|
On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
I don't want to stereotype but for some reason, when I watch Twitch tournaments, there are plenty of African Americans competing in fighting games (as well as Asians). But when it comes to SC2, I see very few African American players play or compete in SC2.
I don't know what the reason is. Maybe fighting games are popular with the African American community and SC2 isn't? I would think that people just play games so you would expect to see a proportional amount of African Americans in SC2 as other games. It's very weird that there are few African Americans at the top level of SC2 but I assume it's a result of SC2 not being popular with African Americans.
|
On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah Explain.
|
Simply put, black people have not been put on to the gaming scene fully yet. I don't believe there are many if any racist professional gaming teams out there. Even though team owners may not be publicly racist or sexist, the gaming communities tend to embrace these negative tendencies causing the minorities to not feel welcome. I've personally decided its not worth the effort, so I stay ghost mode and focus most my energy elsewhere.
|
Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development.
As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
|
Czech Republic12116 Posts
Why does it matter? These people are mostly hidden behind screens and you care what they do with them computers.
Compared to real sports - you see the players on the field. Sure, sometimes it's hard to know what's their origin(ice hockey), but you see the players. When you watch SC2 you most of the time do NOT see the players.
I would love a time when people stop caring about other peoples races and just enjoyed whatever is happening. But yet here we are and a game which was grown mostly on thge Korean scene is not diverse enough. "Color me blue and call me Chiss". (means Im really shocked and surprised, taken from the different Star universe )
Edit> also SC2 is a very minor e-sport comapred to the big dogs, so taken all into consideration it\s not that surprising.
|
studies show that different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is "racist" to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary.
On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
|
Canada8773 Posts
On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
|
i mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, i don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different physical potential could be
On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
|
if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed
On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
|
On May 18 2020 01:25 LtCalley wrote:if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be. I mean there's a serious correlation between wealth and both height and IQ so....
|
there's also a serious correlation between physical ability/height and wealth at the elite level
On May 18 2020 01:36 Zzzapper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:25 LtCalley wrote:if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be. I mean there's a serious correlation between wealth and both height and IQ so....
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah
What actually is the point of this post?
|
Canada8773 Posts
On May 18 2020 01:39 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah What actually is the point of this post?
We can't handle his hot fire truths brah
|
that's why you made a response to my post? i get it
On May 18 2020 01:41 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:39 Zealously wrote:On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah What actually is the point of this post? We can't handle his hot fire truths brah
|
How is this thread still going ? SC2 players break through if they're good at it, that's all, no one cares where they come from.
|
The cold hard truth: It has very little to do with "financial situation" or "economic background".
Black people, on average, are simply not interested in intellectual tasks/games.
Just look at chess. Most of the best ones are either Europeans (carlsen, kasparov) or asians. (which includes india obviously)
Look at the games they are the best at: Fighting games, FPS. These games arent intellectual. The more intellectual the game is, the more you will see Asians and White.
Now, why is that the case, well, this is a question for another topic.
User was banned for this post.
|
|
|
|