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On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited of my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable. So what should be the build named? Do you have any gameplay vids/replays showcasing your build?
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My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
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On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives.
You realize the guy you're responding to is a troll?
"Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race."
That's what he wrote in his first post.
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On May 17 2020 22:11 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. You realize the guy you're responding to is a troll? "Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race." That's what he wrote in his first post. LMAO
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On May 17 2020 22:10 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited of my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable. So what should be the build named? Do you have any gameplay vids/replays showcasing your build? SocialSend build. The problem is... when you're the only original guy in the game... what do you name every build. Just name them all Social Send or Social Send the 5th?
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On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited off my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable.
Comedy gold
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On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
Why do you say fewer black people are nerds than white people? Being a nerd has NOTHING to do with skin color dude. You fr?
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On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
So Blizzard should have given jobs and opportunites based on skin color and not on merit? Do you think we have the same problem about a lack of red haired people in SC2? I think besides Morrow there were no high level players or casters with red hair? Even if so, why should it matter?
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On May 17 2020 22:26 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
So Blizzard should have given jobs and opportunites based on skin color and not on merit? Do you think we have the same problem about a lack of red haired people in SC2? I think besides Morrow there were no high level players or casters with red hair? Even if so, why should it matter? Because one begins to wonder if there is little to no red haired people in SC2 that it might have to do with people not liking red haired people. To infer it doesn't matter is really insensitive towards the whole thing
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
So... I'm wondering if your question about diversity is about African American representation specifically. I ask this because some people have pointed out that there's a little more Hispanic representation, though it's still true that there's not much. But African American, or for that matter, African-anything-else? I seem to see pretty much none of it. Having said that, I've mostly been into the Korean scene, so I miss a lot of the diversity that exists in the rest of the community anyway.
As someone who's part Hispanic and who grew up mostly with the Hispanic side of my family, my impression is that there are economic and cultural factors at play, both. My family that emigrated from Puerto Rico more or less don't understand why a person would sit by themselves with video games for long stretches of time, and there have been two generations of struggling up from serious poverty. I'm sure that my grandfather's generation and my mother's generation both felt like they didn't really have time for this kinda stuff.
So, poverty could be a factor for sure. But I don't think that would fully explain it. I think there are probably other cultural factors too, though I couldn't say what they all are exactly. But, for example, in my family, the older generation's highly social style to life would probably mean for a lot of people that the idea of sitting alone with a video game is just less appealing--less enriching--than getting together, you know? Little factors like that could also decrease the odds. I don't really know, I'm kinda just taking guesses.
Here's another factor, one that you've kinda hinted at: could it be that because a critical mass was hit with largely European and Asian descended people, that a lot of potential African American players/community members try to engage and are turned off because it looks like "a white person thing" (or similar)? I've really only had one close friend who was an African American game nerd, and it seemed like she, for one reason or another, was drawn to a lot of elements of what would normally be called "white" culture (in music and books and probably some other things I'm not thinking of). In the States especially (where I grew up), my feeling is that, as much as there's a narrative about being this grand melting pot, quite often these lines are drawn between cultures that are hard to cross. I went to a school, just for one year, that was... I don't know, maybe 50% African American? And I remember the weird looks I'd get when I talked to them about liking some TV shows with predominantly black casts. I was the nerd, which didn't help, but it was almost like I violated a cultural sanctum just by liking it, you know? I bet there's some shit like that playing into it on some level.
On May 17 2020 21:15 SocialSend wrote: I'm half black, and I can put it into perspective for you. I've been GM forever. Been top 10 GM. Been top 16 for numerous seasons. I've qualified for numerous WCG regionals in BW.
Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race.
You think you might be aware of someone who can say such things and have them be facts, no? You think Blizzard might try to promote someone like that instead of appearing to be a game completely devoid of black people. Nah man.
Facts are... slavery still exists. You're not allowed to get credit for anything that could be construed as good. Black people are only allowed attention/credit for things in the entertainment sector. Rapping. Basketball. Etc. Who wants to acknowledge that they're copying a black person or a black person beat them in a strategy game?
People are always going to have excuses for why you suck/don't deserve credit and why "random white dude" is 100x cooler and what not. The world is a scam. Black people exist to be looked down upon, and if any of them are able to create anything of value... white man is there to take credit for it.
If you don't let white people come off as more intelligent, then what do they have to stand on/feel superior about? Their ability to con people?
It's pointless to play this game unless you look like everyone else and want to play dungeons and dragons and play make believe. You're just going to get banned or ostracized. But, as a black person... you should be used to that. It doesn't matter if you're 500x better than the guy next to you. As long as he's more white than you are... he's awesome and you suck. That's just how it is.
The answer to who the best black player is... a white person. We're not allowed to even give that credit to a black person. We might start thinking we deserve credit for something. Can't have that.
I'm really surprised to see another person of color attempted to play this game that wasn't from Canada (for some reason they seem to have an easier time).
You go to other forums and it's just blatant racism plastered everywhere. You go on SC 2... and there is a perception of normalcy/fairness, which is weird... then you play a tournament and win to advance far... and your opponent demands a rematch for no reason... and you have to give it to him or forfeit. Thus you have to forfeit... and then the organizer takes it upon himself to call you dumb and s talk you for... well... winning while being black.
Dude... Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that this has been your experience. I don't know about what it's been like, so I can't really comment too much. But I'll say that I honestly think that if it's something you want to do and you have the skills (sounds like you do), I think you'll find people who will be supportive, for real. There'll be people who are fucked up too, I won't pretend like I don't know that, but there really will be people who want to see you do it, and probably more than you think. I love seeing Special and Scarlett compete at the top, and I know that they're both much loved players. There's room for you too.
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United States32499 Posts
it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys
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The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2?
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On May 17 2020 22:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2? no
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On May 17 2020 22:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2?
Super honest reply: I assumed he was saying he played SC2 and BW both. It looked like a potential troll, but I'd rather err on the side of decency if I can.
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On May 17 2020 22:33 Waxangel wrote:it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys Is OP the same guy as SocialSend, too?
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Canada8772 Posts
If I had to give my 2 cent, I would assume it's like you said partly because SC2 is a computer game and as such to have become a professional player you probably needed access to a personnal computer in the early 2000, since more non white didn't have the luxury of having access to a personnal computer in their early age, either because their household had a single family computer that they had to share with everyone else or no home computer at all, RTS games in general got less popular within those community.
For example, the FGC and console esport in general is a lot more diverse probably partly due to the fact that console, especially back then were a more economical option. It's only for gaming but all the kids can share it and if you didn't have one, you could still play at your friends houses with them.
I'm sure there's other more cultural reason, but I assume this has some impact on it.
With that said SC2 seems particularly bad on that part not sure why, the guys that run the AI tournament in SC2 used to do a podcast, and I think they did one on diversity? I remember that they did one on women in SC2 and dwell a little on other kind of diversity, one of the two host is black, I'll try to remember the name.
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I'd argue that it probably has more to do with class than race, while I'm not so clued up in the US here in the UK Afro-Caribbeans tend to be in lower earnings bracket usually presided in a more working class socio-economic background than your average White British kid. The nature of PC gaming is such that there is a significant bar to entry financially and while that applies to games in general, in PC gaming it is particularly expensive so I would argue that this would be a huge factor in the participation of certain ethnic groups. However, just to flip it on its head a little it isn't always down to any form of inherent racism. As I mentioned I'm from the UK and besides DeMusliM we haven't really produced any top level players. What's even stranger about it is the fact that as a whole we have a comparable population and similar standard of living and yet for some reason the output number of French Pros is significantly higher. There is no obvious answer to explain why this is the case so sometimes these things have to be put down to it does just happen like that. I understand this is a sensitive subject and so I mean no offense to anyone with this post, it is just a couple of my thoughts on it.
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On May 17 2020 22:42 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:33 Waxangel wrote:it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys Is OP the same guy as SocialSend, too? Nothing to do with him. Cut the shit, he was obviously trolling about the maxpax build
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