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Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
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Well, perhaps those people simply are not attracted to RTS games like SC2. It can be likened to Soccer not being a huge sport in Asia, or badminton not being likened in Western countries (although there are exceptions of course, soccer is quite good in Japan and badminton in Denmark, etc.)
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I thought the title of the thread was refering to a more real problem with the game.
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Aren't Special and Kelazhur 'hispanics'? Also the ESL has a Latin American division, so there should be some interest from the 'hispanics' there.
But why certain countries or groups of people play more starcraft than others isn't always clear (eg. I don't know of any Belgian pros, but there are more than enough Dutch pros).
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I'm half black, and I can put it into perspective for you. I've been GM forever. Been top 10 GM. Been top 16 for numerous seasons. I've qualified for numerous WCG regionals in BW.
Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race.
You think you might be aware of someone who can say such things and have them be facts, no? You think Blizzard might try to promote someone like that instead of appearing to be a game completely devoid of black people. Nah man.
Facts are... slavery still exists. You're not allowed to get credit for anything that could be construed as good. Black people are only allowed attention/credit for things in the entertainment sector. Rapping. Basketball. Etc. Who wants to acknowledge that they're copying a black person or a black person beat them in a strategy game?
People are always going to have excuses for why you suck/don't deserve credit and why "random white dude" is 100x cooler and what not. The world is a scam. Black people exist to be looked down upon, and if any of them are able to create anything of value... white man is there to take credit for it.
If you don't let white people come off as more intelligent, then what do they have to stand on/feel superior about? Their ability to con people?
It's pointless to play this game unless you look like everyone else and want to play dungeons and dragons and play make believe. You're just going to get banned or ostracized. But, as a black person... you should be used to that. It doesn't matter if you're 500x better than the guy next to you. As long as he's more white than you are... he's awesome and you suck. That's just how it is.
The answer to who the best black player is... a white person. We're not allowed to even give that credit to a black person. We might start thinking we deserve credit for something. Can't have that.
I'm really surprised to see another person of color attempted to play this game that wasn't from Canada (for some reason they seem to have an easier time).
You go to other forums and it's just blatant racism plastered everywhere. You go on SC 2... and there is a perception of normalcy/fairness, which is weird... then you play a tournament and win to advance far... and your opponent demands a rematch for no reason... and you have to give it to him or forfeit. Thus you have to forfeit... and then the organizer takes it upon himself to call you dumb and s talk you for... well... winning while being black.
User was banned for this post.
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Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on.
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i believe stephano is part tunisian, so he is partly of african descent... although, he might not be considered "black."
the only pro RTS player i know that was "black" was Shock in warcraft 3. damn good player.
the post above me screams victimhood. NFL is 70% black, and not a single east asian person in the league. yet starcraft is racist....rolleyes
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On May 17 2020 21:18 LtCalley wrote: i believe stephano is part tunisian, so he is partly of african descent... although, he might not be considered "black."
the only pro RTS player i know that was "black" was Shock in warcraft 3. damn good player.
the post above me screams victimhood. NFL is 70% black, and not a single east asian person in the league. yet starcraft is racist....rolleyes
The NFL just came up with a plan to give teams extra draft picks if they hire black coaches, because, for the most part, people refuse to hire them. There is an insurgence of black QBs in the NFL now. They went from next to zero to taking over the position, because... it wasn't until recently that anyone thought a black QB was smart enough to play the position. They weren't allowed to play the position to begin with.
Even the MVP of the season last year, Lamar Jackson, some coaches wanted him to play wide receiver coming out of college because they figured he was too stupid to do well, otherwise.
I'm not that naive. There are differences among people. The main problem is... white people really don't want anyone to know it's even possible for black people to do well at the fields they want to feel superior about. You have to go so far above and beyond... you may as well not even bother.
A black wide receiver is going to get more chances than a white one. A white person is going to have to prove he can run fast enough and is agile enough. Unless it's PE and they're picking people for teams... it's about the only time you're going to get the "benefit of the doubt" if you're colored. If a white person ends up being good.... they will give them all the credit in the world, is the difference.
They even say the Matrix movie was stolen from a black lady. What white person has ever experienced a black person getting credit for something they did? Indians. Get rekt. Black people. Enjoy being slaves. White people... this is what you guys do. It's how you get ahead. It's like Indians and scamming people. Who can be more corrupt and unfair than the next guy to make up for perhaps not being better than the next guy....
You don't hear about black secret societies or black people controlling anything. It's so silly to me, because it's 100% true... and I'm as white as I'm black. It's like a white person living in the shoes of a black person, almost. It's just a joke. It's funny, really.
Everything is "genius" and awesome until one has to acknowledge a black person came up with it. I can be stereotypical, too. I'd never imagine a colored person being as good at scamming as others...
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On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite.
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this just just more victimhood talk, and you're refusing to address the issue
as a white guy under 6 foot i feel like i dont have anyone to represent people like me in the NBA. even if i could do well in the NBA they would take one look at me and think, "HAH, you're never going to cut it!" they don't even want me to know it's possible that i could do well in this field because it's a field that tall black people want to feel superior about.
i'd have to go "so far up and beyond, i might as well not even bother"
On May 17 2020 21:34 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:18 LtCalley wrote: i believe stephano is part tunisian, so he is partly of african descent... although, he might not be considered "black."
the only pro RTS player i know that was "black" was Shock in warcraft 3. damn good player.
the post above me screams victimhood. NFL is 70% black, and not a single east asian person in the league. yet starcraft is racist....rolleyes The NFL just came up with a plan to give teams extra draft picks if they hire black coaches, because, for the most part, people refuse to hire them. There is an insurgence of black QBs in the NFL now. They went from next to zero to taking over the position, because... it wasn't until recently that anyone thought a black QB was smart enough to play the position. They weren't allowed to play the position to begin with. Even the MVP of the season last year, Lamar Jackson, some coaches wanted him to play wide receiver coming out of college because they figured he was too stupid to do well, otherwise. I'm not that naive. There are differences among people. The main problem is... white people really don't want anyone to know it's even possible for black people to do well at the fields they want to feel superior about. You have to go so far above and beyond... you may as well not even bother. A black wide receiver is going to get more chances than a white one. A white person is going to have to prove he can run fast enough and is agile enough. Unless it's PE and they're picking people for teams... it's about the only time you're going to get the "benefit of the doubt" if you're colored. If a white person ends up being good.... they will give them all the credit in the world, is the difference. They even say the Matrix movie was stolen from a black lady. What white person has ever experienced a black person getting credit for something they did? Indians. Get rekt. Black people. Enjoy being slaves. White people... this is what you guys do. It's how you get ahead. It's like Indians and scamming people. Who can be more corrupt and unfair than the next guy to make up for perhaps not being better than the next guy.... You don't hear about black secret societies or black people controlling anything. It's so silly to me, because it's 100% true... and I'm as white as I'm black. It's like a white person living in the shoes of a black person, almost. It's just a joke. It's funny, really.
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On May 17 2020 21:40 LtCalley wrote:this just just more victimhood talk, and you're refusing to address the issue as a white guy under 6 foot i feel like i dont have anyone to represent people like me in the NBA. even if i could do well in the NBA they would take one look at me and think, "HAH, you're never going to cut it!" they don't even want me to know it's possible that i could do well in this field because it's a field that tall black people want to feel superior about. Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:34 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 LtCalley wrote: i believe stephano is part tunisian, so he is partly of african descent... although, he might not be considered "black."
the only pro RTS player i know that was "black" was Shock in warcraft 3. damn good player.
the post above me screams victimhood. NFL is 70% black, and not a single east asian person in the league. yet starcraft is racist....rolleyes The NFL just came up with a plan to give teams extra draft picks if they hire black coaches, because, for the most part, people refuse to hire them. There is an insurgence of black QBs in the NFL now. They went from next to zero to taking over the position, because... it wasn't until recently that anyone thought a black QB was smart enough to play the position. They weren't allowed to play the position to begin with. Even the MVP of the season last year, Lamar Jackson, some coaches wanted him to play wide receiver coming out of college because they figured he was too stupid to do well, otherwise. I'm not that naive. There are differences among people. The main problem is... white people really don't want anyone to know it's even possible for black people to do well at the fields they want to feel superior about. You have to go so far above and beyond... you may as well not even bother. A black wide receiver is going to get more chances than a white one. A white person is going to have to prove he can run fast enough and is agile enough. Unless it's PE and they're picking people for teams... it's about the only time you're going to get the "benefit of the doubt" if you're colored. If a white person ends up being good.... they will give them all the credit in the world, is the difference. They even say the Matrix movie was stolen from a black lady. What white person has ever experienced a black person getting credit for something they did? Indians. Get rekt. Black people. Enjoy being slaves. White people... this is what you guys do. It's how you get ahead. It's like Indians and scamming people. Who can be more corrupt and unfair than the next guy to make up for perhaps not being better than the next guy.... You don't hear about black secret societies or black people controlling anything. It's so silly to me, because it's 100% true... and I'm as white as I'm black. It's like a white person living in the shoes of a black person, almost. It's just a joke. It's funny, really. Figures whenever one of us brings it up we get shunned as playing victim. Why not address the actual issue and talking points instead of just disregarding everything? That's kind of what puts us in the situation we're in nowadays.
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I thought there's quite a bit of interest in SC2 and Brood War I believe in Latin America, like some of the best and most well-known players in SC2 are hispanic: Special, Kelazhur, Cham, Jimrising, Erik, Killer, Fenix, CatZ, etc. In terms of players of African descent, I know there's Tempo, AGIANTSMURF, MaximusBlack. Technically, Stephano is African as he's part-Tunisian.
Honestly you might know more about it than I do, but have you asked Africans or people of African descent you know what games they enjoy playing? It could just be they're not interested in or familiar with Starcraft, as it isn't the most popular game in the world nowadays and pretty niche.
And I'm curious if you don't mind sharing why it makes you feel unwelcome? Most of the time the game is played and discussed under anonymity. Is it when you watch Starcraft?
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On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite.
I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game.
Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time.
I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primarily focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus is. Vice versa.
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addressing the talking points would get me banned on this website, if i'm not already going to get warned or something for expressing my views.
On May 17 2020 21:42 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:40 LtCalley wrote:this just just more victimhood talk, and you're refusing to address the issue as a white guy under 6 foot i feel like i dont have anyone to represent people like me in the NBA. even if i could do well in the NBA they would take one look at me and think, "HAH, you're never going to cut it!" they don't even want me to know it's possible that i could do well in this field because it's a field that tall black people want to feel superior about. On May 17 2020 21:34 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 LtCalley wrote: i believe stephano is part tunisian, so he is partly of african descent... although, he might not be considered "black."
the only pro RTS player i know that was "black" was Shock in warcraft 3. damn good player.
the post above me screams victimhood. NFL is 70% black, and not a single east asian person in the league. yet starcraft is racist....rolleyes The NFL just came up with a plan to give teams extra draft picks if they hire black coaches, because, for the most part, people refuse to hire them. There is an insurgence of black QBs in the NFL now. They went from next to zero to taking over the position, because... it wasn't until recently that anyone thought a black QB was smart enough to play the position. They weren't allowed to play the position to begin with. Even the MVP of the season last year, Lamar Jackson, some coaches wanted him to play wide receiver coming out of college because they figured he was too stupid to do well, otherwise. I'm not that naive. There are differences among people. The main problem is... white people really don't want anyone to know it's even possible for black people to do well at the fields they want to feel superior about. You have to go so far above and beyond... you may as well not even bother. A black wide receiver is going to get more chances than a white one. A white person is going to have to prove he can run fast enough and is agile enough. Unless it's PE and they're picking people for teams... it's about the only time you're going to get the "benefit of the doubt" if you're colored. If a white person ends up being good.... they will give them all the credit in the world, is the difference. They even say the Matrix movie was stolen from a black lady. What white person has ever experienced a black person getting credit for something they did? Indians. Get rekt. Black people. Enjoy being slaves. White people... this is what you guys do. It's how you get ahead. It's like Indians and scamming people. Who can be more corrupt and unfair than the next guy to make up for perhaps not being better than the next guy.... You don't hear about black secret societies or black people controlling anything. It's so silly to me, because it's 100% true... and I'm as white as I'm black. It's like a white person living in the shoes of a black person, almost. It's just a joke. It's funny, really. Figures whenever one of us brings it up we get shunned as playing victim. Why not address the actual issue and talking points instead of just disregarding everything? That's kind of what puts us in the situation we're in nowadays.
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On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives.
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On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite.
Was it like that 10-15 years ago, too? Because that is when most of the people who are currently into Starcraft got into it.
All of these are honest questions and not me trying to make an argument of some kind, i am a white guy living in Germany and have next to no idea what african american communities look like. I do notice that most of the other nerdy people i know are also very white, but considering that they are generally very open and accepting people, i am a bit of curious as to why that is the case. I don't think it is because we are unfriendly to minorities, and the demographics of nerds are definitively shifting in a bunch of other areas.
For example, 15 years ago, the tabletop RPG scene (which is my prime example for nerdy groups i am part of) was almost exclusively male. Nowadays, there seem to be a lot more female nerds around, to the point where my groups are usually about equal on gender ratios. Similar shifts are happening with regards to sexuality and gender stuff. But everyone is still very white.
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I thought this would be about diversity of strategies.
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On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. How can they be huge into fortnite when they can't afford a PC or internet, because of their oppression under systematic racism?
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: [...] I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. [...] I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, [...] it makes me feel unwelcome at times.
Some socioeconomic dynamics affect the racial make up of the Sc2 community just like it affects the racial make up of absolutely everything but calling it racism is grasping at straws.
This thread belongs on a politics forum, it has nothing to do with Sc2. Systematic racism is such a broad issue that the Sc2 community on its own is absolutely irrelevant and has no power over it
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On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives.
As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure).
If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be!
How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid.
Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder.
Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on.
That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid.
The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons).
I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited off my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me.
I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it.
In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough.
Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable.
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On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited of my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable. So what should be the build named? Do you have any gameplay vids/replays showcasing your build?
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My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
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On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives.
You realize the guy you're responding to is a troll?
"Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race."
That's what he wrote in his first post.
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On May 17 2020 22:11 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities?
Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. You realize the guy you're responding to is a troll? "Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race." That's what he wrote in his first post. LMAO
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On May 17 2020 22:10 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited of my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable. So what should be the build named? Do you have any gameplay vids/replays showcasing your build? SocialSend build. The problem is... when you're the only original guy in the game... what do you name every build. Just name them all Social Send or Social Send the 5th?
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On May 17 2020 22:05 SocialSend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 21:47 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:44 SocialSend wrote:On May 17 2020 21:37 xhibit wrote:On May 17 2020 21:18 Simberto wrote: Is nerd culture and stuff like that in general a big thing in african american communities? Because i think that might be a big predictor. If you are in a community where a bunch of people play computer games and do other nerdy stuff, there is a much higher chance that you will also develop interests in that direction. Specifically during the formative years in high school. When i went to high school, i played video games and tabletop RPGs with my friends, and those were generally just the thing people did. And these are still my main hobbies.
But i am pretty sure that there are a lot of schools where different activities are "the normal thing to do". And if the normal thing to do for teenagers in african american communities are other things than nerdy video games, then you naturally end up with a lot less african americans who are into nerdy video games like starcraft later on. Of course it is. Plenty of African Americans are huge into things like anime and fortnite. I live in such a white place that I can't even tell you what black people are into. I can just tell you how biased white people are... not only am I half white... but when you live in a city this white... you're raised to think like most of them, too. If you beat a white "friend' at a strategy game... be it chess or starcraft, they will refuse to ever play it again, even if it was their favorite game. Beat them at sports, though? They couldn't care less. They're supposed to lose... Everyone wants to feel like they have something to fall back on. When you're raised to look down upon black people, they just can't accept it. They will do anything in their power to ignore it and replace the truth with their own narrative: you're incompetent and inferior. Every time. I always thought sports was kind of the focus point. Path of least resistance. I just happened to have some nerdy friends that forced me to play. When you're primary focused on sports and white people are primarily focused on other things, then they should tend to be better at where their focus as. Vice versa. Yeah I could not agree more. It's too bad we can't even be acknowledged for the achievements against them let alone anything else. Especially in NFL like you said we are currently dealing with the goat being a white quarterback, blue eyes, the media never shuts up about him. Talent isn't recognized anywhere when you look at say Aaron Rodgers or Brady or any other white QB. They're the talking point 9/10 times. A black running back gets averages 10+ yard per game? That's expected, it's "what they do"?? I think Malcom X was right sometimes especially his quote about white liberals vs white conservatives. As Tupac said... It's a white man's world. I'm so used to being slighted that I honestly forget to care. 99% of my friends had to have the talk with me: "my dad hates you because you're black." And I was the least obnoxious and most mannered kid ever (go figure). If you're black... you're starting out at a deficit. It's that simple. When people aren't good at any one thing they can point to, what's supposed to make them feel better about themselves? Feeling superior to another race. Doesn't matter if you're top 10 GM and you created the build that they, themselves are doing. That bronze league white guy? Oh boy... yeah... he's a lot smarter and more creative than you could ever be! How are you supposed to network and try to "get ahead" in a society like that. Like oh boy, can't wait to be friends with them! As if it would be reciprocated, anyways. You're going to get blackballed unless you're "not a threat." You know... you're actually stupid. Think about this again. I invented proxy gateway fast nexus eons ago. Taught it eons ago. My students did it just like maxpax every time, too, when trying to emulate. You know what build he does in P vs P? 1 gateway, no warp gate, tech expand. Guess who else does that? Oh that's right, me. Yet... I had to hear about how genius this guy was for a year +. Greatest thing ever. He's just god's gift to earth, memes or not, even if a 1 hit wonder. Imagine how much fanfare maxpax would get if people were to find out he also pioneered, arguably, the most popular Broodwar build in the game, one that Flash uses every game? How about if he wrote about it being incorrect to make turrets in T vs P before having a third and that became the meta. What if he... was doing the build that some streamers do every game now... many years before them. What if he started going carrier, disruptor vs Terran before anyone. On and on. That would be the greatest white person in the history of the universe. There would be 5 statues of the guy. Just him in different poses. Him with different fans on their knees before him. It would be stupid. The only thing a black person can prove in this world is the hypocrisy and scam nature of the world. That's it. Even in rap, they say you have to do what? Get it on with guys and promote an agenda that leads to more incarceration of black people for profit (kick backs from prisons). I think it's ridiculous that a game can go this long without any notable black players. Zero promotion EVER done. No one can even tell you a black GM? People profited off my builds and annoyed me to no end and they won't even give the decency of simply naming it after me. I've yet to have a single build named after me. I've been going zealot first in P vs P since hots. I also wall on the low ground. 1 gate, no warp gate, stargate. That will be the next build stolen from me, whether it's this week or 5+ years from now. That's going to be the next thing people lose their minds about and worship some random white guy (probably a streamer). The world is predictable and sad. I'm sorry you have to live through it. In BW, TL.net gave me endless grief for showing up to a final 4 and taking a walkover win under the condition that it couldn't be replayed at a later date. Only way I wanted the win... Like what on god's earth was I supposed to do... And I ended up playing the matches at a later date... yet... not good enough. Guess what... next year... 2 guys, some buddies, decided to make up their own final 4 bracket and play at w/e time they felt like... not notifying the other 2 players (me included), and that was PERFECTLY FINE. Totally legitimate. It's not even worth talking about reality because it's so stupid/unbelievable.
Comedy gold
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On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
Why do you say fewer black people are nerds than white people? Being a nerd has NOTHING to do with skin color dude. You fr?
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On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
So Blizzard should have given jobs and opportunites based on skin color and not on merit? Do you think we have the same problem about a lack of red haired people in SC2? I think besides Morrow there were no high level players or casters with red hair? Even if so, why should it matter?
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On May 17 2020 22:26 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:11 MockHamill wrote: My best friend is black and he refuses to play Starcraft.
He do not like multiplayer games at all and only play single player games. I doubt that has anything to do with skin color though.
But generally speaking fewer black people are nerds compared to white people, and most SC2 people are nerds. I think this is the core explanation.
Also people tend to emulate what other people do, and we emulate what people we identify with do.
Since fewer casters/pro games are black I think subconsciously you are less likely to be inspired to be a pro player or a caster if you are black.
If Blizzard promoted some black casters early in SC2 I think this problem would have been solved. Now it is probably too late to solve in SC2.
So Blizzard should have given jobs and opportunites based on skin color and not on merit? Do you think we have the same problem about a lack of red haired people in SC2? I think besides Morrow there were no high level players or casters with red hair? Even if so, why should it matter? Because one begins to wonder if there is little to no red haired people in SC2 that it might have to do with people not liking red haired people. To infer it doesn't matter is really insensitive towards the whole thing
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
So... I'm wondering if your question about diversity is about African American representation specifically. I ask this because some people have pointed out that there's a little more Hispanic representation, though it's still true that there's not much. But African American, or for that matter, African-anything-else? I seem to see pretty much none of it. Having said that, I've mostly been into the Korean scene, so I miss a lot of the diversity that exists in the rest of the community anyway.
As someone who's part Hispanic and who grew up mostly with the Hispanic side of my family, my impression is that there are economic and cultural factors at play, both. My family that emigrated from Puerto Rico more or less don't understand why a person would sit by themselves with video games for long stretches of time, and there have been two generations of struggling up from serious poverty. I'm sure that my grandfather's generation and my mother's generation both felt like they didn't really have time for this kinda stuff.
So, poverty could be a factor for sure. But I don't think that would fully explain it. I think there are probably other cultural factors too, though I couldn't say what they all are exactly. But, for example, in my family, the older generation's highly social style to life would probably mean for a lot of people that the idea of sitting alone with a video game is just less appealing--less enriching--than getting together, you know? Little factors like that could also decrease the odds. I don't really know, I'm kinda just taking guesses.
Here's another factor, one that you've kinda hinted at: could it be that because a critical mass was hit with largely European and Asian descended people, that a lot of potential African American players/community members try to engage and are turned off because it looks like "a white person thing" (or similar)? I've really only had one close friend who was an African American game nerd, and it seemed like she, for one reason or another, was drawn to a lot of elements of what would normally be called "white" culture (in music and books and probably some other things I'm not thinking of). In the States especially (where I grew up), my feeling is that, as much as there's a narrative about being this grand melting pot, quite often these lines are drawn between cultures that are hard to cross. I went to a school, just for one year, that was... I don't know, maybe 50% African American? And I remember the weird looks I'd get when I talked to them about liking some TV shows with predominantly black casts. I was the nerd, which didn't help, but it was almost like I violated a cultural sanctum just by liking it, you know? I bet there's some shit like that playing into it on some level.
On May 17 2020 21:15 SocialSend wrote: I'm half black, and I can put it into perspective for you. I've been GM forever. Been top 10 GM. Been top 16 for numerous seasons. I've qualified for numerous WCG regionals in BW.
Maxpax? I created that build/concept in 2013. I did it every game for years. First game of LotV I did it. I had the best win rate in GM, in P vs T, for numerous seasons due to it. 1-1-1 fastest science vessel? I was doing that, exclusively, since 2009. I wrote about both builds in a book before either were a "thing." Any build you see that you think is interesting... I was doing it before them. Facts. As long as it's a macro build and I played the race.
You think you might be aware of someone who can say such things and have them be facts, no? You think Blizzard might try to promote someone like that instead of appearing to be a game completely devoid of black people. Nah man.
Facts are... slavery still exists. You're not allowed to get credit for anything that could be construed as good. Black people are only allowed attention/credit for things in the entertainment sector. Rapping. Basketball. Etc. Who wants to acknowledge that they're copying a black person or a black person beat them in a strategy game?
People are always going to have excuses for why you suck/don't deserve credit and why "random white dude" is 100x cooler and what not. The world is a scam. Black people exist to be looked down upon, and if any of them are able to create anything of value... white man is there to take credit for it.
If you don't let white people come off as more intelligent, then what do they have to stand on/feel superior about? Their ability to con people?
It's pointless to play this game unless you look like everyone else and want to play dungeons and dragons and play make believe. You're just going to get banned or ostracized. But, as a black person... you should be used to that. It doesn't matter if you're 500x better than the guy next to you. As long as he's more white than you are... he's awesome and you suck. That's just how it is.
The answer to who the best black player is... a white person. We're not allowed to even give that credit to a black person. We might start thinking we deserve credit for something. Can't have that.
I'm really surprised to see another person of color attempted to play this game that wasn't from Canada (for some reason they seem to have an easier time).
You go to other forums and it's just blatant racism plastered everywhere. You go on SC 2... and there is a perception of normalcy/fairness, which is weird... then you play a tournament and win to advance far... and your opponent demands a rematch for no reason... and you have to give it to him or forfeit. Thus you have to forfeit... and then the organizer takes it upon himself to call you dumb and s talk you for... well... winning while being black.
Dude... Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that this has been your experience. I don't know about what it's been like, so I can't really comment too much. But I'll say that I honestly think that if it's something you want to do and you have the skills (sounds like you do), I think you'll find people who will be supportive, for real. There'll be people who are fucked up too, I won't pretend like I don't know that, but there really will be people who want to see you do it, and probably more than you think. I love seeing Special and Scarlett compete at the top, and I know that they're both much loved players. There's room for you too.
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United States32511 Posts
it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys
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The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2?
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On May 17 2020 22:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2? no
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On May 17 2020 22:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The guy wrote he went 1-1-1 fastest science vessel in LoTV, why are you replying to his obviously BS story? Do you even play SC2?
Super honest reply: I assumed he was saying he played SC2 and BW both. It looked like a potential troll, but I'd rather err on the side of decency if I can.
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On May 17 2020 22:33 Waxangel wrote:it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys Is OP the same guy as SocialSend, too?
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Canada8773 Posts
If I had to give my 2 cent, I would assume it's like you said partly because SC2 is a computer game and as such to have become a professional player you probably needed access to a personnal computer in the early 2000, since more non white didn't have the luxury of having access to a personnal computer in their early age, either because their household had a single family computer that they had to share with everyone else or no home computer at all, RTS games in general got less popular within those community.
For example, the FGC and console esport in general is a lot more diverse probably partly due to the fact that console, especially back then were a more economical option. It's only for gaming but all the kids can share it and if you didn't have one, you could still play at your friends houses with them.
I'm sure there's other more cultural reason, but I assume this has some impact on it.
With that said SC2 seems particularly bad on that part not sure why, the guys that run the AI tournament in SC2 used to do a podcast, and I think they did one on diversity? I remember that they did one on women in SC2 and dwell a little on other kind of diversity, one of the two host is black, I'll try to remember the name.
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I'd argue that it probably has more to do with class than race, while I'm not so clued up in the US here in the UK Afro-Caribbeans tend to be in lower earnings bracket usually presided in a more working class socio-economic background than your average White British kid. The nature of PC gaming is such that there is a significant bar to entry financially and while that applies to games in general, in PC gaming it is particularly expensive so I would argue that this would be a huge factor in the participation of certain ethnic groups. However, just to flip it on its head a little it isn't always down to any form of inherent racism. As I mentioned I'm from the UK and besides DeMusliM we haven't really produced any top level players. What's even stranger about it is the fact that as a whole we have a comparable population and similar standard of living and yet for some reason the output number of French Pros is significantly higher. There is no obvious answer to explain why this is the case so sometimes these things have to be put down to it does just happen like that. I understand this is a sensitive subject and so I mean no offense to anyone with this post, it is just a couple of my thoughts on it.
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On May 17 2020 22:42 Yakawakanawa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 22:33 Waxangel wrote:it's a troll post by a previously banned user, guys Is OP the same guy as SocialSend, too? Nothing to do with him. Cut the shit, he was obviously trolling about the maxpax build
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On May 17 2020 22:44 Nakajin wrote: If I had to give my 2 cent, I would assume it's partly because SC2 is a computer game and as such to have become a professional player you probably needed access to a personnal computer in the early 2000, since more non white didn't have the luxury of having access to a personnal computer in their early age, either because their household had a single familly computer that they had to share with everyone else or no home computer at all, RTS games in general got less popular within those community.
For exemple, the FGC and console esport in general is a lot more diverse probably partly due to the fact that console, especially back then were a more economical option. It's only for gaming but all the kids can share it and if you didn't have one, you could still play at your friends houses with them.
I'm sure there's other more cultural reason, but I assume this has some impact on it.
Yes! This is probably the most logical answer. If you go check out XBOX or PlayStation esports games, you'll find a lot more diversity.
There are loads of african-americans playing as COD pros. A lot of hispanics too. The same goes for Gears of War. Most players are either african americans or hispanics. Another example of this are Street Fighter, Smash Bros and other Fighting Games, where you have a lot more people from african descent being pros, and even some from the Dominican Republic and other poor Latin countries.
The fact is that most people that are now pros, grew up in the 90s and, in order to be a pro player, you need to play from an young age. As it was said by Nakajin, the african american community was underprivileged, which means they relied more on XBOX, Nintendos and PlayStation to play and not in the more expensive option, the pc. Also, going to the arcade and play StreetFighter or games like that is cheaper then buying a console or a pc.
The same goes for the asian community. They were poor, but you see many pro players, and why? Because PC Cafes became popular and were cheap, which gave them the opportunity to play PC games.
Everything in this world is explained by history and economics.
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah
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The comment has two parts - "is" and "ought". The former is just descriptive, while the latter implies some value judgement.
I) It *is* objectively accurate to say that most professional SC2 players are of European and Asian descent, which can be backed by simple statistics
II) However, inserting the value judgment that this is bad (you say "it's not in a good way") requires an extra step. Can you elaborate on why is it bad? Does it require fixing? How would it be better if there was more diversity?
There are a number of huge games such as Persona 5, Crossfire (#1 game), or Garena Free Fire with a much less diverse base. Compared to SC2, do you consider these games, or their player bases worse?
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Canada8773 Posts
On May 17 2020 23:33 seopthi wrote: The comment has two parts - "is" and "ought". The former is just descriptive, while the latter implies some value judgement.
I) It *is* objectively accurate to say that most professional SC2 players are of European and Asian descent, which can be backed by simple statistics
II) However, inserting the value judgment that this is bad (you say "it's not in a good way") requires an extra step. Can you elaborate on why is it bad? Does it require fixing? How would it be better if there was more diversity?
There are a number of huge games such as Persona 5, Crossfire (#1 game), or Garena Free Fire with a much less diverse base. Compared to SC2, do you consider these games, or their player bases worse?
Well even if we put apart the philosophical arguments, I think we can agree it could be at time a pretty lonely experience to be the only person in your particular slice of society in a group.
I'd be curious about the OP experience (well or any other people) if they played SC1-2 with their family member/ no-white friends?
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
I don't want to stereotype but for some reason, when I watch Twitch tournaments, there are plenty of African Americans competing in fighting games (as well as Asians). But when it comes to SC2, I see very few African American players play or compete in SC2.
I don't know what the reason is. Maybe fighting games are popular with the African American community and SC2 isn't? I would think that people just play games so you would expect to see a proportional amount of African Americans in SC2 as other games. It's very weird that there are few African Americans at the top level of SC2 but I assume it's a result of SC2 not being popular with African Americans.
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On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah Explain.
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Simply put, black people have not been put on to the gaming scene fully yet. I don't believe there are many if any racist professional gaming teams out there. Even though team owners may not be publicly racist or sexist, the gaming communities tend to embrace these negative tendencies causing the minorities to not feel welcome. I've personally decided its not worth the effort, so I stay ghost mode and focus most my energy elsewhere.
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Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development.
As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
Why does it matter? These people are mostly hidden behind screens and you care what they do with them computers.
Compared to real sports - you see the players on the field. Sure, sometimes it's hard to know what's their origin(ice hockey), but you see the players. When you watch SC2 you most of the time do NOT see the players.
I would love a time when people stop caring about other peoples races and just enjoyed whatever is happening. But yet here we are and a game which was grown mostly on thge Korean scene is not diverse enough. "Color me blue and call me Chiss". (means Im really shocked and surprised, taken from the different Star universe )
Edit> also SC2 is a very minor e-sport comapred to the big dogs, so taken all into consideration it\s not that surprising.
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studies show that different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is "racist" to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary.
On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
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Canada8773 Posts
On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler +
I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
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i mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, i don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different physical potential could be
On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
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if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed
On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be.
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On May 18 2020 01:25 LtCalley wrote:if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be. I mean there's a serious correlation between wealth and both height and IQ so....
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there's also a serious correlation between physical ability/height and wealth at the elite level
On May 18 2020 01:36 Zzzapper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:25 LtCalley wrote:if only i had been raised by better parents. i wouldn't be 5'6'' and 134 iq and i could be in the NBA like i've always dreamed On May 18 2020 01:17 Nakajin wrote:On May 18 2020 01:10 LtCalley wrote:different ethnicities can have different adaptive physical advantages that are hereditary, but it is racist to retain any notion that any cognitive advantages are hereditary. On May 18 2020 00:52 JohnDelaney wrote:Sub-Saharan African internet infrastructure is just emerging, they don't have coverage like the developed countries. We will see if Chinese investment can speed up the development. As for Black Americans the socioeconomic statistics (and if you know anything about American history and politics) speak for themselves: + Show Spoiler + I mean ya it's pretty clearly racist, I don't know what else saying ethnicity have by nature different cognitive potential could be. I mean there's a serious correlation between wealth and both height and IQ so....
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah
What actually is the point of this post?
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Canada8773 Posts
On May 18 2020 01:39 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah What actually is the point of this post?
We can't handle his hot fire truths brah
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that's why you made a response to my post? i get it
On May 18 2020 01:41 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2020 01:39 Zealously wrote:On May 17 2020 23:31 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2. I could tell you why, but I'll be called a racist for it, so nah What actually is the point of this post? We can't handle his hot fire truths brah
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How is this thread still going ? SC2 players break through if they're good at it, that's all, no one cares where they come from.
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The cold hard truth: It has very little to do with "financial situation" or "economic background".
Black people, on average, are simply not interested in intellectual tasks/games.
Just look at chess. Most of the best ones are either Europeans (carlsen, kasparov) or asians. (which includes india obviously)
Look at the games they are the best at: Fighting games, FPS. These games arent intellectual. The more intellectual the game is, the more you will see Asians and White.
Now, why is that the case, well, this is a question for another topic.
User was banned for this post.
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I want to see this thread duplicated on the BW forum so we can discuss why all the pros in that game are from a single country
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troll thread, but cerebral pursuits requiring fast hands (e.g. jazz piano) have a ton of black talent. if I had to guess, i'd say there was an interest gap. Games requiring either A) elite mental performance or B) elite athletic performance are going to be where group differences show up. Chalking up the massive overrepresentation of jewish and black talent in games/sports like chess or basketball to culture/interest/wealth doesn't pass the sniff test.
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On May 17 2020 20:52 xhibit wrote: Hello TL, long time lurker here. I wanted to talk to you all about something that affects my perception of the SC2 community - and it's not in a good way. It seems like there is a genuine lack of diversity at either the pro level or simply the casual level. It seems that the playerbase is largely people of European or Asian descent, with a lack of Hispanics and/or African Americans. As someone of African descent myself, personally I could not name another black player besides Temp0, and I have been following the scene since WoL first came out. Why do you guys think this is? I think maybe it could be explained by large-scale systematic racism, i.e. African Americans are not as easily able to afford a computer that can run SC2 + internet. Personally though the SC2 community is very welcoming and it's part of the reason I've stuck around for so long. But there is this fact that is like a splinter in my brain, and it makes me feel unwelcome at times. Anyway just curious what you guys think about the lack of diversity in SC2.
I think identity politics sucks and are extremely dangerous politically speaking, it's weird it was the far right prerogative but now it's the "progressists" who are obsessed with it. + it's weird seeing black americans calling themselves african american while they have so little in common with the large cultural diversity of the continent, it feels like it's a very agressive cultural appropriation whose the foundation are a sort of fantasmed Africa mixed with strong identity policies and foreign policy as it is useful to assert the na cultural hegemony. I guess it works with asian too. Anyway, there are a lack of females, of people from Africa, lack of interest and mainly the social condition/inequalities are the factors.
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the "lack of interest" argument is so stupid it makes my head spin. the "lack of interest" from minority cultures in "white" activities is specifically because they aren't welcomed. otherwise what are we proposing here? people of certain ethnicities have genes that make them not like starcraft? are we being serious?
people used to say the same moronic shit about women not "being interested" in math & science to justify not allowing women into those fields, and it's always been factually bunk
now, what's actually the right way to fix it? is there anything we can really do, collectively, that will address this, outside of just pushing more modern ideals in society at large? that's a real debate, and there are a lot of valid answers and valid concerns. but get out of here with this "they aren't interested" lmao
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Belgium9937 Posts
Closing this thread as it's almost pure troll bait.
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