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If this thread turns into a USPMT 2.0, we will not hesitate to shut it down. Do not even bother posting if all you're going to do is shit on the Democratic candidates while adding nothing of value.
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This thread will be heavily moderated. Expect the same kind of strictness as the USPMT. |
On March 04 2020 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 02:53 JimmiC wrote:On March 04 2020 02:48 Nebuchad wrote:On March 04 2020 02:45 pmh wrote:
Tbh it makes perfect sense for warren to attack sanders,he more or less is her direct competitor for the progressive vote. Its everyone on their own in the primary for as long as they are in.
Not a fan and dont trust her at all but you cant really blame her for what she is doing thus far. At least not from her perspective which might also have the long term (2024) in mind. She's attacking Sanders with lies and a less progressive stance, how is that going to get her the progressive vote that she wants. Of course we can blame her for that, and of course we can blame her for calculating that a Trump win is better for her because she'll be in good position in 2024 if that's truly what she is doing. She is trying to present herself as a bridging candidate between Bernie and Biden because she knows she can't win the Hardcore support for either. Perhaps she is hoping that there is a stalemate between Bernie and Biden and that Bernie supporters will say "we can't live with Biden but we would go with Warren" and that "Biden supporters will say we can't live with Bernie but we could live with Warren". Or many many other options that don't involve her being some sort of evil pawn of the DNC and are in fact far more likely. Who here is saying that Warren is part of some conspiracy or DNC plot? The DNC will look to fuck Bernie if they can, unless he gets a crushing mandate which is looking rather unlikely. Warren claims to be progressive but is putting her career above the advancement of said politics, possibly. You’re responding to arguments people here aren’t actually making, to basically paraphrase the sole argument here it’s ‘you say you’re progresssive and care about these causes, let’s see your bona fides in action’
I won't speak for him, and I wouldn't take the arguments I've made in the last few pages and think to extend them to most people in this thread, I genuinely don't have a problem with how most people are interpreting events.
On March 03 2020 04:44 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 04:27 Geo.Rion wrote:
Wow, Klobuchar drops out with less than a day before the voting starts? Last ditch effort to destroy Bernie. If Warren doesn't drop today, it confirms they are all in cahoots to take down Bernie.
What I do have a problem with, is this. The bad faith assumption of a campaign being run purely out of malice, because Warren wasn't serving out her function as a tool to help Bernie win like he deserves. Mind you I'm paraphrasing a bit.
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Super Tuesday results should be interesting and relatively close. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that either Sanders or Biden will win the day by a landslide, once all the states' delegates are counted. I don't know exactly how much Warren and Bloomberg will influence the outcomes, and recent polls suggest (understandably so) that Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Steyer dropping out have boosted Biden's numbers in certain states, such as California, to make Biden more competitive in more locations. As long as Biden stays close to Sanders in the delegate count, which is very likely to happen, then Biden is in a better position to become the eventual Democratic nominee (since the superdelegates of a brokered convention would favor him, regardless of whether he's in first or second place).
I'm a huge Sanders fan, and I'll be voting for him in the primary, but I don't see him winning an actual majority of the pledged delegates; even a plurality of the pledged delegates and winning the popular vote don't necessarily guarantee you the nomination.
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On March 04 2020 01:14 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 01:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 04 2020 01:06 NewSunshine wrote:On March 04 2020 00:59 Mohdoo wrote:On March 04 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Simple, she still has a substantial base and genuine support. Pete and Amy really don't. It does not follow that she must necessarily be conspiring against Bernie. Biden looks to be laying claim to that distinction at the moment. We should just resume this discussion after today's results I don't know that I care to. I've attempted numerous times to unpack why you're dead set on going after Warren, and I've yet to hear anything that convinces me when there's been an entire field of candidates that have done what she has, and worse, and who have consistently edged her out in whatever war they're waging on Bernie. However this turns out, I'm fairly certain I'll know what your reaction will be, and above that I know I'm not changing your mind anytime soon. I'm ok leaving this here if you are. Warren is the only one running on ostensibly wanting to pursue similar policy to Bernie but is actively sabotaging any chance of that happening by continuing a irrefutably losing campaign. Do centrist candidates with significant overlap earn similar scorn for fracturing the base in the other direction? Who's to decide this?
There was lots of talk about Klob or Buttigieg dropping so Biden can crush Bernie. Klob has been amazingly pointless for a long time.
Way back before any primary even happened, I was saying (in this thread) Bernie should support Warren because he was doing very poorly. I eventually decided that I thought whoever did the best in the first few states should stay and the other should drop and endorse. Consolidating into a single progressive candidate increases the overall chance of a progressive winning. Warren and Bernie are significantly preferred, even still, over Biden and Bloomberg for me. But her chances look super grim.
It comes down to this: Polling and every other metric shows a great deal of consolidation happening. I believe Warren knows she has a 0% chance of getting more delegates than Bernie at this point. If we disagree on that premise, its that we disagree on something we can't know for sure. Not worth continuing to discuss.
But if she ends up with less than half of Bernie's delegates after Super Tuesday, it will be insanely weird for her to stay. But it all comes down to whether or not you think she knows she won't get more than Bernie. If she is hoping for some bizarre deal where she ends the primary with 10% of delegates, that's weird and she should be shamed for that. But that's the core assumption I am making: She knows she won't win at this point. If you think she thinks she can get a plurality of delegates at this point, I understand your perspective. But I would be surprised if you think that. Do you?
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United States7684 Posts
Maybe the darkest timeline has Bernie fighting the DNC and winning the nomination but catching coronavirus and dying in early August.
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Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On March 04 2020 06:19 IgnE wrote:
Maybe the darkest timeline has Bernie fighting the DNC and winning the nomination but catching coronavirus and dying in early August.
It would have to be on Inauguration Day for maximum tragic effect.
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On March 04 2020 06:28 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 06:19 IgnE wrote:
Maybe the darkest timeline has Bernie fighting the DNC and winning the nomination but catching coronavirus and dying in early August. It would have to be on Inauguration Day for maximum tragic effect.
I am pretty sure you are underestimating US politics if you think that that is the worst that could happen.
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Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On March 04 2020 06:32 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 06:28 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 04 2020 06:19 IgnE wrote:
Maybe the darkest timeline has Bernie fighting the DNC and winning the nomination but catching coronavirus and dying in early August. It would have to be on Inauguration Day for maximum tragic effect. I am pretty sure you are underestimating US politics if you think that that is the worst that could happen.
Well no I mean more in the ‘hero doesn’t live to see their triumph’ tragical trope, as old as Moses (or possibly older)
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On March 04 2020 06:44 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 06:32 Simberto wrote:On March 04 2020 06:28 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 04 2020 06:19 IgnE wrote:
Maybe the darkest timeline has Bernie fighting the DNC and winning the nomination but catching coronavirus and dying in early August. It would have to be on Inauguration Day for maximum tragic effect. I am pretty sure you are underestimating US politics if you think that that is the worst that could happen. Well no I mean more in the ‘hero doesn’t live to see their triumph’ tragical trope, as old as Moses (or possibly older) Unless Democrats score big and get a super majority in both chambers few of his idea's are likely getting implemented anyway. The GOP went crazy when a black man got into the White House, its going to be just as bad when its a Communist.
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Biden completely dominating the black vote.
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Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks!
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On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks!
I think that will be the case, and I think it'll be an easier pill for Sanders-supporting progressives like me to swallow in terms of unifying the party come general election time, than if Sanders won the plurality but was overthrown by superdelegates. Assuming Joe Biden does end up winning the nomination, the next question would be: would his runningmate be a progressive and/or a person of color and/or a woman... or would it be motherfucking Tim Kaine?
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On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks!
Oh well. I s’pose another four years of Trump wouldn’t be all bad.
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On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks!
Yeah if he gets the plurality I'll get in line. And I do agree that he'll likely lose unless Corona allows for Trump to make a few critical errors.
On March 04 2020 09:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks! I think that will be the case, and I think it'll be an easier pill for Sanders-supporting progressives like me to swallow in terms of unifying the party come general election time, than if Sanders won the plurality but was overthrown by superdelegates. Assuming Joe Biden does end up winning the nomination, the next question would be: would his runningmate be a progressive and/or a person of color and/or a woman... or would it be motherfucking Tim Kaine?
This is where Warren cackles after her plan comes together. Harris has too much baggage and likely won't be helpful. I honestly think Bernie would sign up to be VP. But that would be a bit weird.
Bernie crowd being entirely energized for Biden would be funny. Who knows. I think Biden will need someone like AOC who is a lightning rod.
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On March 04 2020 09:43 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks! Oh well. I s’pose another four years of Trump wouldn’t be all bad.
Trumps gonna stick for more than four. He's not making those jokes every single rally just for fun. Finding a way around term limits will be 100% one his goals if reelected
In other news, Bloomberg got 49% of the vote in American Samoa.
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Texas is key now but given the size of Biden's lead in the other states optimism is probably not warranted.
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On March 04 2020 09:43 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks! Yeah if he gets the plurality I'll get in line. And I do agree that he'll likely lose unless Corona allows for Trump to make a few critical errors. Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 09:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks! I think that will be the case, and I think it'll be an easier pill for Sanders-supporting progressives like me to swallow in terms of unifying the party come general election time, than if Sanders won the plurality but was overthrown by superdelegates. Assuming Joe Biden does end up winning the nomination, the next question would be: would his runningmate be a progressive and/or a person of color and/or a woman... or would it be motherfucking Tim Kaine? This is where Warren cackles after her plan comes together. Harris has too much baggage and likely won't be helpful. I honestly think Bernie would sign up to be VP. But that would be a bit weird. Bernie crowd being entirely energized for Biden would be funny. Who knows. I think Biden will need someone like AOC who is a lightning rod.
I would think (hope) that the runningmate wouldn't be 70+ years old also, to set up for a hand-off from hypothetical President Biden to the VP in 1-2 presidential cycles, and the 70+ year olds won't be around for too many more presidential elections.
I also have no idea what a moderate version of a young, hip, hype-person like AOC would be, considering most of the moderate positions are... well, moderate, and tend to lack the additional emotion, idealism, and reach that the more progressive positions have. The establishment isn't particularly well-known for inspiring people, especially young people.
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Going to be sad if people have to set aside their morals/integrity to vote for Biden just for him to lose anyway
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 04 2020 09:45 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2020 09:43 LegalLord wrote:On March 04 2020 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Most people are now projecting that Biden will end up with a plurality of delegates come convention time.
Pretty much kills any controversy surrounding the nomination.
Buckle up for another mediocre old white person with shitty Boomer generation politics as the nominee, folks! Oh well. I s’pose another four years of Trump wouldn’t be all bad. Trumps gonna stick for more than four. He's not making those jokes every single rally just for fun. Finding a way around term limits will be 100% one his goals if reelected In other news, Bloomberg got 49% of the vote in American Samoa.
Winning a primary with 175 votes total... And Tulsi Gabbard got second place to get a delegate. O_O
That's roughly 200 times fewer votes per delegate than the other primaries. I guess people from American Samoa don't care much given that they aren't citizens.
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EPT
