|
On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2019 09:40 xDaunt wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? Sorry buddy, I’ve heard the reverse in articles and by activists. I want your answer, not shoving it to others. It’s a good entry point for what I find wrong with transphobia accusations (as the question asks). I meant that some trans people feel that this is transphobic and some don't, sorry I should have been clearer. My personal opinion matters somewhere around 0% given that I'm cis but I feel the reason why it's not settled is because the question isn't specific enough, which is why I asked you for specificity. If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. I don't really care about what you find wrong with transphobia accusations. I want to know what you find wrong with transphobia.
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community.
|
On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone?
Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there.
On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community.
This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like.
|
On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there.
So if you are attracted to a trans woman, without knowing they are trans, but after talking with them a bit you discover they are trans and you are no longer interested in dating them, then what? You are transphobic?
|
On February 04 2019 15:41 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. So if you are attracted to a trans woman, without knowing they are trans, but after talking with them a bit you discover they are trans and you are no longer interested in dating them, then what? You are transphobic?
Depends on the specific reason. There are valid reasons, for example you can prefer vaginal sex and she has a penis. There are a ton of invalid/transphobic reasons; it's gay, I was deceived, I don't want to date someone who has a mental illness, I mean you get the picture.
|
On February 04 2019 15:48 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:41 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. So if you are attracted to a trans woman, without knowing they are trans, but after talking with them a bit you discover they are trans and you are no longer interested in dating them, then what? You are transphobic? Depends on the specific reason. There are valid reasons, for example you can prefer vaginal sex and she has a penis. There are a ton of invalid/transphobic reasons; it's gay, I was deceived, I don't want to date someone who has a mental illness, I mean you get the picture.
Yes many of these reasons are transphobic, and this exact sequence of events (interested in dating; finds out about being trans; reaction) is in part what leads to the extraordinarily high murder rate among trans women.
The problem is that people are so defensive when it comes to transphobia that they refuse to see it like that.
From my experience, when it comes to perpetuating transphobia, about 90% of my male friends are guilty. That's not to say that they are transphobic, but a pretty huge shift is going to be needed to reduce that - and that is what we are seeing with the younger generation now.
|
On February 04 2019 17:20 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:48 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:41 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers.
I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. So if you are attracted to a trans woman, without knowing they are trans, but after talking with them a bit you discover they are trans and you are no longer interested in dating them, then what? You are transphobic? Depends on the specific reason. There are valid reasons, for example you can prefer vaginal sex and she has a penis. There are a ton of invalid/transphobic reasons; it's gay, I was deceived, I don't want to date someone who has a mental illness, I mean you get the picture. Yes many of these reasons are transphobic, and this exact sequence of events (interested in dating; finds out about being trans; reaction) is in part what leads to the extraordinarily high murder rate among trans women. The problem is that people are so defensive when it comes to transphobia that they refuse to see it like that. From my experience, when it comes to perpetuating transphobia, about 90% of my male friends are guilty. That's not to say that they are transphobic, but a pretty huge shift is going to be needed to reduce that - and that is what we are seeing with the younger generation now.
People are super-defensive about any kind of bigotry. Look at the tedious 'being intolerant of intolerance is bigotry' dance that right wingers break out now and again when one of their own gets outed as a borderline klansman.
Trans people are the new bottom rung; most people accept that being horrible to gay people because they're gay is no longer acceptable, but it's fine to act that way towards those unnatural trans people who have the very nerve to want us to treat them like they're normal and not the abominations that they are.
Which is the underlying thread running through a lot of perspectives of people who think they're being reasonable while hilariously unaware that they're almost word-for-word repeating the arguments made against gay people by the last couple of generations.
|
Transphobia = hating trans people because they’re trans right? Physical/sexual attraction has nothing to do with that definition. Not only should it be conceivable that someone could appreciate a trans person while not being attracted to them, but also that someone could be a legit trans bigot while having a (presumably) secret, guilty trans fetish (maybe a sadomasochist thing?).
That being said, speaking solely to the romantic/dating experience, I would think that it would be wise to be upfront with whether or not you have a vagina pretty early in the dating process, because statistically it’s a dealbreaker for a large majority of straight guys and would save a lot of time and potential heartache.
If they don’t say anything and they get to the bedroom and reveal a penis though, proper response from disinterested straight guy should be respectfully decline and wish them well. Beating/murdering/accusing of lying = transphobic.
|
On February 04 2019 22:04 Ryzel wrote:
Transphobia = hating trans people because they’re trans right? Physical/sexual attraction has nothing to do with that definition. Not only should it be conceivable that someone could appreciate a trans person while not being attracted to them, but also that someone could be a legit trans bigot while having a (presumably) secret, guilty trans fetish (maybe a sadomasochist thing?).
This is contradictory.
If someone has a secret, guilty trans fetish then their fetish probably has something to do with their transphobia.
I think people are confusing transphobia in individuals with anti-trans society.
Lack of physical attraction to trans women among heterosexual men probably has something to do all sorts of societal issues from peer pressure and defensiveness about sexuality and gender to a general lack of acceptance of transgendered people to a literal disinterest in sex unless there's a vagina. Obviously you can't judge an individual for that, its more of an indication of a wider issue. I would be interested to see whether physical/sexual attraction to trans women is at different levels in different age groups.
|
That refers to someone who’s a legit trans bigot (i.e. they are transphobic), hence for them it would most likely be secret and guilty. As in, they can’t help themselves that they’re attracted to trans people regardless of his/her views on them. I added some edits to that post as well.
|
On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like.
Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia (You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned.
|
|
|
On February 04 2019 12:43 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 08:19 Doodsmack wrote:Some more evidence that Trump is more of a figurehead than other presidents, and that he is a lazy person. Anyone who spends 60% of their 8am - 5pm time not working is lazy. A White House source has leaked nearly every day of President Trump's private schedule for the past three months.
...
The schedules, which cover nearly every working day since the midterms, show that Trump has spent around 60% of his scheduled time over the past 3 months in unstructured "Executive Time." www.axios.com lol that's just Trump derangement syndrome. Maybe he isn't 9-5 in the WH, if you want to make the argument, but lazy? Dude is a work horse at 72 years old. He was holding 2-3 rallies a day non stop when it counted, both for his election and to save Republicans at midterms. Just follow him on twitter/IG, you can see his schedule. Acussing political opponents of made up things is a great way to lose all credibility, like the media still refuses to learn.
Interesting that you say he was working hard "when it counted." Does that mean he's no longer working hard, because it no longer counts? The evidence is right in front of your eyes - "executive time" is not work.
|
On February 05 2019 00:40 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 12:43 GoTuNk! wrote:On February 04 2019 08:19 Doodsmack wrote:Some more evidence that Trump is more of a figurehead than other presidents, and that he is a lazy person. Anyone who spends 60% of their 8am - 5pm time not working is lazy. A White House source has leaked nearly every day of President Trump's private schedule for the past three months.
...
The schedules, which cover nearly every working day since the midterms, show that Trump has spent around 60% of his scheduled time over the past 3 months in unstructured "Executive Time." www.axios.com lol that's just Trump derangement syndrome. Maybe he isn't 9-5 in the WH, if you want to make the argument, but lazy? Dude is a work horse at 72 years old. He was holding 2-3 rallies a day non stop when it counted, both for his election and to save Republicans at midterms. Just follow him on twitter/IG, you can see his schedule. Acussing political opponents of made up things is a great way to lose all credibility, like the media still refuses to learn. Interesting that you say he was working hard "when it counted." Does that mean he's no longer working hard, because it no longer counts? The evidence is right in front of your eyes - "executive time" is not work.
No, I mean as working hard in stark contrast with Hillary who was doing nothing when she should have been campaigning.
|
On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 03 2019 10:28 Danglars wrote:Here's an article from Andrew Sullivan discussing the ideological bankruptcy of the trans movement and its attempts to abolish the concept of biological sex/gender. The part of his article that I find particularly amusing is the end where he attempts to reconcile the positions of the trans movement and the homosexual movement: And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. It is close to definitional. The core of the traditional gay claim is that there is indeed a very big difference between male and female, that the difference matters, and without it, homosexuality would make no sense at all. If it’s all a free and fluid nonbinary choice of gender and sexual partners, a choice to have sex exclusively with the same sex would not be an expression of our identity, but a form of sexist bigotry, would it not?
There is a solution to this knotted paradox. We can treat different things differently. We can accept that the homosexual experience and the transgender experience are very different, and cannot be easily conflated. We can center the debate not on “gender identity” which insists on no difference between the trans and the cis, the male and the female, and instead focus on the very real experience of “gender dysphoria,” which deserves treatment and support and total acceptance for the individuals involved. We can respect the right of certain people to be identified as the gender they believe they are, and to remove any discrimination against them, while also seeing biology as a difference that requires a distinction. We can believe in nature and the immense complexity of the human mind and sexuality. We can see a way to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, without denying biological reality. Equality need not mean sameness.
We just have to abandon the faddish notion that sex is socially constructed or entirely in the brain, that sex and gender are unconnected, that biology is irrelevant, and that there is something called an LGBTQ identity, when, in fact, the acronym contains extreme internal tensions and even outright contradictions. And we can allow this conversation to unfold civilly, with nuance and care, in order to maximize human dignity without erasing human difference. That requires a certain amount of courage, and one thing I can safely say about that Heritage panel is that the women who spoke had plenty of it. I've read his "solution" about ten times, and I still don't have any idea why he thinks it is a solution. When you get right down to it, he's pretty much telling everyone who thinks that sex is a social construct to fuck off. While I agree with this sentiment, I wouldn't dare call it a "solution." Regardless, the real lesson here is that any kind of world view based in subjectivism sucks and is only going to lead to problems. It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like. Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia ( You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned.
I'm no one, that's why the first thing I said was literally I'm cis so my opinion matters 0%. We should defer to trans people on this topic, and that's one where they are divided (presumably because the question is not worded very well, and could have different answers depending on specifics).
I'm not going to get you to answer my question am I? That's annoying, I think it's interesting.
|
On February 05 2019 00:38 JimmiC wrote:
I think it is completely reasonable to be a straight man who is not interested in dating a transwomen. Part of the major reason many straight men are interested in Women would be the vagina and other genetically female characteristics that can not be covered or changed with clothes and make up.
I think it is completely reasonable to be a straight man who is interested in dating a transwoman. If you are specifically into it, or just ok with trans and other women go for it.
I think it gets messy when we try to tell others how they should feel and who they should be attracted to. We do this all the time and it tends to lead to violence and a bunch of anger and confusion in those who feel attracted to those they "shouldn't". Doesn't matter if it was gay, or interracial or now this. We have to find a way to not judge others and ourselves over this kind of thing.
That being said being hateful is making a comeback so I don't see it changing for the better in the short term especially in the US.
See it's quite different from gay or interracial because those are actually about attraction. There isn't a situation where you're into this girl, you're making moves towards her, and suddenly you find out she's black and you're no longer "attracted" to her. Besides I don't know about you guys but even though my type isn't black women I would never say something like "I would never be attracted to a black woman", that's a pretty silly statement to make imo.
Trans women do a little more than clothes and make-up, you're thinking of dragqueens/cross-dressers there.
|
On February 05 2019 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers. I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like. Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia ( You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. I'm no one, that's why the first thing I said was literally I'm cis so my opinion matters 0%. We should defer to trans people on this topic, and that's one where they are divided (presumably because the question is not worded very well, and could have different answers depending on specifics). I'm not going to get you to answer my question am I? That's annoying, I think it's interesting.
You asked:
On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
What is it about transphobia that you don't like?
And I answered three times now, cited:
On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community.
On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:
The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia (You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned.
It's a specific thing I've heard called transphobia (in articles, spoken about by trans people, discussed) that I think is not a bigoted attitude. You have a great deal left to learn about not liking someone's answer, and pretending they never really answered you.
So kindly proceed to ask questions you want answers on, and cease toddling around with the childish behavior. If you are indeed a child, and need further instruction in dealing with answers you don't like, inquire of your parents.
|
On February 05 2019 03:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2019 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
It’s the gender identity worldview that is a problem. It goes too far in denying biology. It goes too far in transitioning young children and teenagers.
I think any “solution” involves years-long cultural change in what it means to be transphobic or homophobic. Straight or gay people who won’t date trans people aren’t transphobic. It isn’t a defect of their character or other moral shortcoming. What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like. Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia ( You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. I'm no one, that's why the first thing I said was literally I'm cis so my opinion matters 0%. We should defer to trans people on this topic, and that's one where they are divided (presumably because the question is not worded very well, and could have different answers depending on specifics). I'm not going to get you to answer my question am I? That's annoying, I think it's interesting. You asked: Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
What is it about transphobia that you don't like? And I answered three times now, cited: Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. Show nested quote +On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:
The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia (You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. It's a specific thing I've heard called transphobia (in articles, spoken about by trans people, discussed) that I think is not a bigoted attitude. You have a great deal left to learn about not liking someone's answer, and pretending they never really answered you. So kindly proceed to ask questions you want answers on, and cease toddling around with the childish behavior. If you are indeed a child, and need further instruction in dealing with answers you don't like, inquire of your parents.
Here is this dude named DudeB. You don't know him, he is not connected to you, you care 0% about stigmas attached to his person, that doesn't impact your life in any way. He is transphobic. Can you give me some examples of things you don't like about what he says, and why you don't like those things?
|
On February 05 2019 03:20 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2019 03:11 Danglars wrote:On February 05 2019 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 07:31 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
What is it about transphobia that you don't like? Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like. Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia ( You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. I'm no one, that's why the first thing I said was literally I'm cis so my opinion matters 0%. We should defer to trans people on this topic, and that's one where they are divided (presumably because the question is not worded very well, and could have different answers depending on specifics). I'm not going to get you to answer my question am I? That's annoying, I think it's interesting. You asked: On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
What is it about transphobia that you don't like? And I answered three times now, cited: On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:
The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia (You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. It's a specific thing I've heard called transphobia (in articles, spoken about by trans people, discussed) that I think is not a bigoted attitude. You have a great deal left to learn about not liking someone's answer, and pretending they never really answered you. So kindly proceed to ask questions you want answers on, and cease toddling around with the childish behavior. If you are indeed a child, and need further instruction in dealing with answers you don't like, inquire of your parents. Here is this dude named DudeB. You don't know him, he is not connected to you, you care 0% about stigmas attached to his person, that doesn't impact your life in any way. He is transphobic. Can you give me some examples of things you don't like about what he says, and why you don't like those things?
I have trouble justifying further answers given how recently you chose not to acknowledge any from me. I don't know if this is a flaw in your understanding, some kind of weird debate strategy, or you're just trolling. So read the two things I quoted a second time in answer to your first question, and give what form of apology you want to show me future replies will be understood (Sorry for ignoring the previous ones, here's my new ones). I will not feed trolls or trolly activists.
|
On February 05 2019 03:31 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2019 03:20 Nebuchad wrote:On February 05 2019 03:11 Danglars wrote:On February 05 2019 02:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 15:32 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 15:13 IgnE wrote:On February 04 2019 13:31 Nebuchad wrote:On February 04 2019 12:12 Danglars wrote:On February 04 2019 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Do you agree or disagree with the last two sentences? Are those transphobic attitudes or expressions? The trans community doesn't agree that those are transphobic attitudes, you're going to need to be more specific. You added "or homophobic" in your statement which was weird in context and probably says something about you. Would you please answer my question? If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic. Really? Is there a duty to be attracted to everyone? Of course not. But there are trans women who look like basically every type of cis women I can think of, so unless you get extremely specific, attraction isn't going to be the defining factor there. On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. This describes what you don't like about trans activism and some stuff that you feel is described as transphobic and shouldn't be. This is not what I'm asking you; I'm asking you what it is about transphobia that you don't like. Who are you to define what should and shouldn't be transphobic? You didn't ask me who I think gets to define what fits under the umbrella. You asked me what problem I have with it. The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia ( You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. I'm no one, that's why the first thing I said was literally I'm cis so my opinion matters 0%. We should defer to trans people on this topic, and that's one where they are divided (presumably because the question is not worded very well, and could have different answers depending on specifics). I'm not going to get you to answer my question am I? That's annoying, I think it's interesting. You asked: On February 04 2019 07:09 Nebuchad wrote:
What is it about transphobia that you don't like? And I answered three times now, cited: On February 04 2019 15:26 Danglars wrote:
IgnE beat me to it. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means I have a duty to be attracted to women with penises. As you elucidate here, my exclusion of that category of human in women I would date would fall under a transphobic attitude. That’s a problem I have with the term, and one primary hurdle.
The rest of your post deals with the problem of phobias being overbroad in application. I also don’t like how modern terms like transphobia are broadly applied or narrowly applied, or who can and can’t speak on behalf of an entire community. On February 04 2019 23:59 Danglars wrote:
The first major one is I've read articles and heard trans people say that dating exclusion is transphobia (You said "If as a straight man you don't want to date trans women because they are trans, which seems to me the most simple assumption, then yeah, probably transphobic.") There's my problem. Transphobia is a term with negative connotations that imply a character defect in the bigotry category, and shouldn't be used to describe the aforementioned. It's a specific thing I've heard called transphobia (in articles, spoken about by trans people, discussed) that I think is not a bigoted attitude. You have a great deal left to learn about not liking someone's answer, and pretending they never really answered you. So kindly proceed to ask questions you want answers on, and cease toddling around with the childish behavior. If you are indeed a child, and need further instruction in dealing with answers you don't like, inquire of your parents. Here is this dude named DudeB. You don't know him, he is not connected to you, you care 0% about stigmas attached to his person, that doesn't impact your life in any way. He is transphobic. Can you give me some examples of things you don't like about what he says, and why you don't like those things? I have trouble justifying further answers given how recently you chose not to acknowledge any from me. I don't know if this is a flaw in your understanding, some kind of weird debate strategy, or you're just trolling. So read the two things I quoted a second time in answer to your first question, and give what form of apology you want to show me future replies will be understood (Sorry for ignoring the previous ones, here's my new ones). I will not feed trolls or trolly activists.
It's a flaw in your understanding. You are answering the question "What is it about being called a transphobe that you don't like?". I'm asking you "What is it about transphobia that you don't like?".
|
edit: Ignore me I'm sniping because I'm grumpy after work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
