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Instead of claiming multiple times how science is just barely beginning to catch up on the natural things talked about in the bible, please share with us these divine secrets so we may all benefit rather that just stating that "they are there".
Oh, and a few scientists from as early as the 50's have proven by recreating early earth's atmosphere that random molecules under the right condition could have formed the microscopic beginnings of life matter. I will do my best now to search for proper sources. [edit: a google search led me to this wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment - there are sources at the bottom for all of that information]
And one more thing I never really understood about religions is: what do they think about other planets and the rest of the entire galaxy/universe? why are they there? what are their purposes?
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On April 18 2007 23:06 zoast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2007 23:03 XelNaga wrote:
Did Jesus judge the pharisees? The scribes? The religious leaders of his day? Don't make me get back into this, I really don't want to. He who is without sin. Yea, that's Jesus. Or, are you the second coming? I think your point about rebuking fellow brothers for their own good is better. I did get the impression of arrogance from your posts too (fyi/fwiw). From extensive use of little quips like "Oh yea?" But it's cool... really hard to tell on the interweb.
You just asked me if Jesus judged people, are you changing your stance now? Honestly though, the main point of Christianity isn't to love everyone. It's a point yes, but not the main point.
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We have our right to live by what makes us happy and he has no right to deny that we are in fact, HAPPY!
He has his right to live by what makes him happy and he should be allowed to at least try to persuade to us that his way is better because we all pursuade at some point.
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well i guess i deserved this punishment for reading a thread that says [christian] in it...
But fucking hell... would someone please stab XelNaga in the face? please make mankind a favour.
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On April 18 2007 23:51 baal wrote:
well i guess i deserved this punishment for reading a thread that says [christian] in it...
But fucking hell... would someone please stab XelNaga in the face? please make mankind a favour.
As I said, you thought that nite guy was annoying? You've just entered a whole new ballgame.
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please do not dodge my post, xelnaga ^^
I am genuinely interested in how you respond
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On April 18 2007 23:53 ZaplinG wrote:
please do not dodge my post, xelnaga ^^
I am genuinely interested in how you respond
The one immediately above? Okay, I'll probably get to it in a few hours. It's almost 3AM and I can't think.
On April 18 2007 23:06 ZaplinG wrote:Instead of claiming multiple times how science is just barely beginning to catch up on the natural things talked about in the bible, please share with us these divine secrets so we may all benefit rather that just stating that "they are there". Oh, and a few scientists from as early as the 50's have proven by recreating early earth's atmosphere that random molecules under the right condition could have formed the microscopic beginnings of life matter. I will do my best now to search for proper sources. [edit: a google search led me to this wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment - there are sources at the bottom for all of that information] And one more thing I never really understood about religions is: what do they think about other planets and the rest of the entire galaxy/universe? why are they there? what are their purposes?
Okay so for the Miller Urey experiments.. Sorry to link you to something, but I realize when I can't explain something as well as others, and so I'm not going to attempt it when much smarter people have already done the work.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v18/i2/abiogenesis.asp
As for the divine revelations.. They were things like the earth is round (Isaiah) the earth isn't the center of the universe (Isaiah). All snowflakes are unique (Job). Blood is life (Leviticus). Things of that nature, perhaps not considered major revelations, but things that did take scientists and the like a long time to finally figure out and then agree upon.
As for other planets.. They think that God created them, is there life out there? Could be, it wouldn't conflict with the bible. The only question that would be raised is how they view God.
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Hey can god do anything? can some christian people answer?
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On April 19 2007 00:05 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
Hey can god do anything? can some christian people answer?
Philosophical arguments are useless. Come up with something original, cupcake.
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On April 18 2007 23:55 XelNaga wrote:Okay so for the Miller Urey experiments.. Sorry to link you to something, but I realize when I can't explain something as well as others, and so I'm not going to attempt it when much smarter people have already done the work. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v18/i2/abiogenesis.asp
that does not address the issue of abiogenesis happening outside of earth, then traveling to earth via meteor (which has been documented many many times to have happened before)
As for the divine revelations.. They were things like the earth is round (Isaiah) the earth isn't the center of the universe (Isaiah). All snowflakes are unique (Job). Blood is life (Leviticus). Things of that nature, perhaps not considered major revelations, but things that did take scientists and the like a long time to finally figure out and then agree upon.
the earth being round/not center of universe -> then why were early astronomist persecuted for blasphemy against the church when they raised these same questions?
Blood is life -> common observation. no blood = death. I'm sure the bible did not mean this in a microbiology way
snowflakes -> please quote the verse -.- Im having trouble seeing why this would be in a bible
As for other planets.. They think that God created them, is there life out there? Could be, it wouldn't conflict with the bible. The only question that would be raised is how they view God.
I'm not talking about life on other planets, I'm talking about the planets themselves. What are their purposes?
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On April 19 2007 00:09 XelNaga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 00:05 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
Hey can god do anything? can some christian people answer? Philosophical arguments are useless. Come up with something original, cupcake.
So you are dodging my argument? You accept your weakness and is goign to dodge me? Yes or No, one definitive answer or you're weaksauce.
:p
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this debate has been going on for years, by philsophers, christians and athiests, people who specialise in their beliefs, if they couldn't come to a conclusion, who's to say this forum will?
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On April 19 2007 00:39 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
this debate has been going on for years, by philsophers, christians and athiests, people who specialise in their beliefs, if they couldn't come to a conclusion, who's to say this forum will?
Haha we're just here to have some fun argueing, let us be :D
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Of all the many scientific claims that the Bible makes, it was bound to get some of them right. It might make some correct claims earth is round (Isaiah) the earth isn't the center of the universe (Isaiah). All snowflakes are unique (Job). Blood is life (Leviticus), but for every right claim there's a hundred wrong ones. But fortunately the wrongs ones were of course all intended as metaphors.
And whenever I see a thread like this I'm tempted to read the entire thing but I'll just respond to the original poster. Firstly I really resent the implication that all "unbelievers" are just interested in sex, drugs, or drinking, and that the only way to 'happiness and fulfillment' is through a relationship with Jesus Christ. The whole thing just drips of some kind of indoctrination, saying that there's a price for sin and such. Who is he to say that you won't find happiness and fulfillment through relationships, success, possessions, or accomplishments? Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but it's your life and it's for you to decide.
I'm really sick of religious people claiming a kind of monopoly on values and meaning in life, as if without their God and teachings everything would just degrade into nihilism. They'll say "if there's no God, and we're just made of atoms, then my life doesn't matter and neither does yours". Speak for yourself! The way I've always seen it, it's not like there's this *one* meaning ultimate meaning out there in the universe that everyone has, but you have it within yourself to make your own meaning; it's different for everyone.
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On April 19 2007 00:39 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
this debate has been going on for years, by philsophers, christians and athiests, people who specialise in their beliefs, if they couldn't come to a conclusion, who's to say this forum will?
we win everything else, why not this as well?
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=/ For all the people who flame XelNaga, I think he comes off too strongly, but he does make some legitimate points. XelNaga should try to be a little more polite and the people flaming him should separate the point from the person, or this will just end up like a typical discussion between believers and non-believers-- nowhere.
Oh, and there was a post in the beginning about a guy who talked about drinking and having premarital sex and still calling himself a Christian, and while you guys might not like XelNaga's passion about it, he's kind of right. A person who violates many of the major tenets but still calls himself a part of the religion... isn't. =/ I'm not judging whether or not his lifestyle is better, but he really shouldn't consider himself a part of a group he doesn't agree with or live by.
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On April 19 2007 00:42 intotherainx wrote:
=/ For all the people who flame XelNaga, I think he comes off too strongly, but he does make some legitimate points. XelNaga should try to be a little more polite and the people flaming him should separate the point from the person, or this will just end up like a typical discussion between believers and non-believers-- nowhere.
:tips hat:
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On April 19 2007 00:41 Wonders wrote:
Of all the many scientific claims that the Bible makes, it was bound to get some of them right. It might make some correct claims earth is round (Isaiah) the earth isn't the center of the universe (Isaiah). All snowflakes are unique (Job). Blood is life (Leviticus), but for every right claim there's a hundred wrong ones. But fortunately the wrongs ones were of course all intended as metaphors.
And whenever I see a thread like this I'm tempted to read the entire thing but I'll just respond to the original poster. Firstly I really resent the implication that all "unbelievers" are just interested in sex, drugs, or drinking, and that the only way to 'happiness and fulfillment' is through a relationship with Jesus Christ. The whole thing just drips of some kind of indoctrination, saying that there's a price for sin and such. Who is he to say that you won't find happiness and fulfillment through relationships, success, possessions, or accomplishments? Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but it's your life and it's for you to decide.
I'm really sick of religious people claiming a kind of monopoly on values and meaning in life, as if without their God and teachings everything would just degrade into nihilism. They'll say "if there's no God, and we're just made of atoms, then my life doesn't matter and neither does yours". Speak for yourself! The way I've always seen it, it's not like there's this *one* meaning ultimate meaning out there in the universe that everyone has, but you have it within yourself to make your own meaning; it's different for everyone.
I think that there's a difference in the way people define happiness... the person in the original post would seem to value a relationship with Jesus the most, just like you would value whatever you do. I don't think it's wrong to spread your opinion on happiness (if you think about it, our capitalist society tells us that success is what we should ultimately strive for), and I find your generalization of religious people "claiming a kind of monopoly on values" strikingly similar, ironically, to his criticism of non-believers all being lusty drunkards that you were not okay with. I happen to be a believer but I'm not the kind of person that you think religious people are =/.
I suspect that the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, but I do believe that there is a form of truth that you can get to without scientific proof. This body of knowledge, I think, can only be accessed by thinking in a different way than we usually do in a calculating, often oppressive capitalist society. We get to it by our feelings, beliefs, intuitions, imagination, even-- and some people happen to call that "faith." =]
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On April 19 2007 00:05 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
Hey can god do anything? can some christian people answer?
Wow this is the ultimate argument against everything religious. You've really thrown down the gauntlet.
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On April 19 2007 01:00 Wonders wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2007 00:05 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
Hey can god do anything? can some christian people answer? Wow this is the ultimate argument against everything religious. You've really thrown down the gauntlet.
They don't call him cupcake for nothing.
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EPT
