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[Christian topic] Greg Laurie - Page 10

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Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
April 18 2007 06:33 GMT
#181
The point is protestants are supposed to interpret the bible whatever way they want. The smart(er?) people at the Catholic church are much more qualified to tell you what is right and what is wrong.

The best way to spread your religion is to practice it and do good deeds, people may follow your example. Telling people what they are doing wrong is called hypocrisy, its what Jesus said to Pharasee's, and for good reason.
Annor[BbG]
Profile Joined April 2007
United States55 Posts
April 18 2007 06:33 GMT
#182
On April 18 2007 15:30 bine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 13:22 XelNaga wrote:
On April 18 2007 13:11 TheOvermind77 wrote:
Here is an example of what I mean by not taking the Bible literally...or 'ignoring' some parts.

Leviticus 15: 28-30

"'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the Lord for the uncleanness of her discharge."

Do you practice that? Should we practice that?


That's also what you would be calling taking out of context. That was hygiene law for the Hebrews when they were in the desert. There was a lot of sickness and disease concern at the time, and so there you go, this is a solution for it.

When you say you're taking the bible literally, there is also the assumption that you know the context of the bible and do we need to apply Hebrew religious laws to our society today? No, because 1) We aren't Hebrew and 2) It's out of context.

On April 18 2007 12:45 bine wrote:


Radio carbon dating Tool of the devil


No, just inaccurate.


You think that the carbon in dinosaur bones somehow tricked scientists into thinking it's millions of years old?


What do Scientists have to compare them too? Nothing. Its a guess based off of how carbon works in things that exist Today. How do we know that dinosaurs' carbon works the same as animals today if none are alive to show us.
TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-04-18 06:44:34
April 18 2007 06:41 GMT
#183
On April 18 2007 15:33 xM(Z wrote:
TheOvermind77, a mind exercise:
if someone were to come to you and said : "i am your God" would you believe him?


I hate mind exercises ><

I believe that if God revealed himself to me he would surely reveal to me that he was God with some sort of evidence. Jesus performed miracles, walked on water, etc. I'm sure there would be some sort of sign. God would know how to show that he was true.

Plus, it is said that the site of God throws one to his knees.

If there were no sign...dang, that is a tough. I choose "No comment" as my response

What would you say?
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
April 18 2007 06:42 GMT
#184
On a side note: This thread is exhausting.
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
Never Post
Profile Joined July 2004
United Kingdom503 Posts
April 18 2007 06:46 GMT
#185
On April 18 2007 15:31 Annor[BbG] wrote:
Many people have managed to disprove parts of the Evolutionary Theory. They have edited parts, added parts, removed parts, have they disproved Evolution as a whole?


I have never heard of anything like this. But even if it's true, it just shows that with something like a theory of evolution you can amend, adjust until it's correct. With the Bible, it's there - you either believe it or don't, if you take parts of it you nullify the usefulness of it. It's too much of a rigid, narrow way of thinking and we'll never get anywhere if we're locked in this thought pattern.


Oh? The Bible was proven false? Enlighten us, oh wise one. You know something that no one else does.


The date of the earth, a certain flood, Adam&Eve, the value of pi, etc.

Basically, things we can explain with scientific evidence and theories nowadays. The thing about science is it accepts that it can be wrong sometimes, it strives to find evidence and improve. People benefit from this, their understanding of the universe becomes clearer. They don't benefit from a dusty old scripture that talks absurdities.
Note to self: [You have short term memory loss - you did post this]
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5278 Posts
April 18 2007 06:46 GMT
#186
haha, you knew i would own you if you've replied;
but still, God didn't show himself to any of the apostols* so why you are so special?
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
0z
Profile Joined August 2006
Luxembourg877 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-04-18 06:48:12
April 18 2007 06:47 GMT
#187
On April 18 2007 15:33 Slayer91 wrote:
The point is protestants are supposed to interpret the bible whatever way they want. The smart(er?) people at the Catholic church are much more qualified to tell you what is right and what is wrong.


Supposed by whom? You see, the thing is that i find it hard to believe that a large group of people will suddenly come up with the exact same belief at the same time. This raises the suspition that they actually believe what they are told to believe (granted by someone they see as nice, benevolent, etc.). So it finally comes to believing a) your parents, b) some nice teacher or friend.

To support this view comes the following argument: no one is born in Syria to a muslim family and becomes christian, no one born to a christian family in the us becomes muslim (this has seen exceptions recently, due to gradual opening of the international relations.)

So, be it the bible, the church or some particular person you like, I think people's beliefs are given to them from somewhere and are not their own.


The best way to spread your religion is to practice it and do good deeds, people may follow your example. Telling people what they are doing wrong is called hypocrisy, its what Jesus said to Pharasee's, and for good reason.

agreed

TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
April 18 2007 06:48 GMT
#188
On April 18 2007 15:46 xM(Z wrote:
haha, you knew i would own you if you've replied;
but still, God didn't show himself to any of the apostols* so why you are so special?


I have no clue. Maybe it is because of my insane starcraft skillz (cough which suck cough)
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
Never Post
Profile Joined July 2004
United Kingdom503 Posts
April 18 2007 06:48 GMT
#189
On April 18 2007 15:28 TheOvermind77 wrote:
I'm not saying he is a filler...I mean, if I take the opposite perspective, then God created the world, and as we grow to understand the world and its origins, we grow closer to understanding the works of God and how he put everything in motion. Then God is the endpoint in this case...and because we humans have limitations to things that we can observe and explain (I think it is the general consensus of all scientists, atheist and christian, that we will never be able to explain everything because of how short our lives are and how we are simply a speck in the grain of the celestial sands) then the only way we can truly understand everything is when we are in Heaven and truly can know God and his works.

You see, it can be taken from both perspectives, both of which are believable by any person and both of which are refutible (only in concept, but never in fact). This argument will just go in a circle until old age and arthritis prevent us from typing responses.


Do you believe in a 'personal god'? i.e. one that is able to listen to prayers, perform miracles, intervene, etc. etc.
Note to self: [You have short term memory loss - you did post this]
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5278 Posts
April 18 2007 06:48 GMT
#190
where is your faith now?
is it me or do you want proof?
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
April 18 2007 06:52 GMT
#191
On April 18 2007 15:48 xM(Z wrote:
where is your faith now?
is it me or do you want proof?


I see your clever little argument ><

The problem is that if a normal person came up to me and said "I'm your God" I wouldn't be able to discern him from the real God. Luckily, for me, God appeared to people in pretty obvious forums (Massive ownage ray of sunlight from clouds, flaming bush, etc).
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5278 Posts
April 18 2007 06:53 GMT
#192
On April 18 2007 15:52 TheOvermind77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 15:48 xM(Z wrote:
where is your faith now?
is it me or do you want proof?


I see your clever little argument ><

The problem is that if a normal person came up to me and said "I'm your God" I wouldn't be able to discern him from the real God. Luckily, for me, God appeared to people in pretty obvious forums (Massive ownage ray of sunlight from clouds, flaming bush, etc).

those were stage settings
TheOvermind77, your intentions are good and
Me: I believe God exists.
You: I believe that there is no God.
Me: Well, you are free to believe what you will, I have no way of proving to you otherwise.
You: Same for your beliefs. Let's go to White Castle and get a Crave Case.
Me: Sweet.

I like that ending much better :D

, is decent. But if you fail humanity because of your believes, i'll kick your ass
aergaergrgar gl
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
April 18 2007 06:55 GMT
#193
On April 18 2007 15:48 Never Post wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 15:28 TheOvermind77 wrote:
I'm not saying he is a filler...I mean, if I take the opposite perspective, then God created the world, and as we grow to understand the world and its origins, we grow closer to understanding the works of God and how he put everything in motion. Then God is the endpoint in this case...and because we humans have limitations to things that we can observe and explain (I think it is the general consensus of all scientists, atheist and christian, that we will never be able to explain everything because of how short our lives are and how we are simply a speck in the grain of the celestial sands) then the only way we can truly understand everything is when we are in Heaven and truly can know God and his works.

You see, it can be taken from both perspectives, both of which are believable by any person and both of which are refutible (only in concept, but never in fact). This argument will just go in a circle until old age and arthritis prevent us from typing responses.


Do you believe in a 'personal god'? i.e. one that is able to listen to prayers, perform miracles, intervene, etc. etc.


Man, you guys are getting a nice profile of my religious views

I do believe in a personal God, but there are lots of "buts" when I say that. I'm really too lazy to elaborate.
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
TheOvermind77
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-04-18 07:04:05
April 18 2007 06:56 GMT
#194
On April 18 2007 15:53 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 15:52 TheOvermind77 wrote:
On April 18 2007 15:48 xM(Z wrote:
where is your faith now?
is it me or do you want proof?


I see your clever little argument ><

The problem is that if a normal person came up to me and said "I'm your God" I wouldn't be able to discern him from the real God. Luckily, for me, God appeared to people in pretty obvious forums (Massive ownage ray of sunlight from clouds, flaming bush, etc).

those were stage settings
TheOvermind77, your intentions are good and
Show nested quote +
Me: I believe God exists.
You: I believe that there is no God.
Me: Well, you are free to believe what you will, I have no way of proving to you otherwise.
You: Same for your beliefs. Let's go to White Castle and get a Crave Case.
Me: Sweet.

I like that ending much better :D

, is decent. But if you fail humanity because of your believes, i'll kick your ass
aergaergrgar gl


If I fail humanity, feel free :D
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
RebelHeart
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
New Zealand722 Posts
April 18 2007 06:57 GMT
#195
i haven't read through all the pages yet but i can see how ignorance has once again become the strawman for antiChrist arguments

XelNaga was right to point out that the Christianity the other user practiced (getting drunk, having sex before marriage) is not Biblical Christianity. that is not an opinion, it is simply fact. that's like saying you abide with US law, but think it's ok to rape someone if you feel like the bitch deserved it, or kill someone if they pissed you off too many times. whatever your reasoning behind it, it simply goes against what is written in the law

as for not judging other people - i am willing to bet me admitting that i am wrong that the people who raised this verse have never even read the New Testament (not including a couple of verses here and there). James 5:20 says - "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins." the verse in Matthew you atheists have been referring to was when Jesus was attacking the Pharisees for carrying out judgment on people outside the temple - saying XelNaga is guilty of this is like saying someone who accidentally hit someone with a car (when it was in fact the victim's own fault for running onto the road when there was a green light) should be guilty of murder one instead of manslaughter

judgment is different from pointing out the error of a brother's ways. in the Gospels the Pharisees were about to stone a woman for committing adultery - that is carrying out their judgment on her. they were free to say to her - what you did was wrong. that is opinion and pointing out the error of her ways. however, to carry out the punishment is passing judgment on her. it is like the difference between the media and reporters compared to the judge and jury - only one has the complete facts and the authority to pass judgment. Jesus said do not judge others lest you be judged - meaning that if you punish someone for committing a sin, you too will be punished for your sins by God

"Happy are those who show mercy: mercy will be shown to them. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." - Matthew 6:14

+ Show Spoiler +
"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, 'Pay what you owe.' So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. Then his lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart." - Matthew 6:24


Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he
repents, forgive him.


Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes
back to you and says, `I repent,' forgive him."

anyway, the point i am making is this - Jesus was saying to the Pharisees who were about to punish the adulteress, if you guys stone her to death, you too will likewise have to be punished the same way for your sins. and He stooped down on the ground and being an all-knowing Son of God started writing down all their sins in the sand. when the Pharisees saw this they were like, crap we don't want to be stoned, so they left. then Jesus said to the adulteress, i forgive you. Go and sin no more. He did not say, don't worry you don't have to be stoned because I am ok with you committing adultery on your husband. He was saying, what you have done is not ok, but I forgive you so please don't do it again

that is what XelNaga did. he did not judge him and say you think fornication is ok so you cannot be a Christian forever in the future 'cos God will never forgive you for it, he was saying you can be a Christian but if you want to you have to change your ways and God will forgive you for what you believed in the past. that is not judgmental, that is saving him from judgment for continuing in sin. it's like letting the adulteress continue to cheat on her husband and not repent (even though she has 7x77 chances of being forgiven). to become a Christian you must recognise that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), it's the same standard of grace XelNaga has been shown, that God forgives him for his sins but he had to first turn away from them - to be a Christian isn't: "sinning is ok and God doesn't care". that sort of reasoning will lead to this sort of situation: "The most dangerous thing you can do is to take any one impulse of your own nature and set it up as the thing you ought to follow at all costs. There's not one of them which won't make us into devils if we set it up as an absolute guide. You might think love of humanity in general was safe, but it isn't. If you leave out justice you'll find yourself breaking agreements and faking evidence in trials "for the sake of humanity" and become in the end a cruel and treacherous man." - C S Lewis

+ Show Spoiler +
Every one has heard people quarreling. Sometimes it sounds funny and sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we can learn something very important from listening to the kind of things they say. They say things like this: 'How'd you like it if anyone did the same to you?'--'That's my seat, I was there first'--'Leave him alone, he isn't doing you any harm'--Why should you shove in first?'--'Give me a bit of your orange, I gave you a bit of mine'--'Come on, you promised.' People say things like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as well as grown-ups.

Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man's behaviour does not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of behaviour which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man very seldom replies: 'To hell with your standard.' Nearly always he tries to make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he was given the bit of orange, or that something has turned up which lets him off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarreling means trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the rules of football.

Now this Law or Rule about Right and Wrong used to be called the Law of Nature. Nowadays, when we talk of the 'laws of nature' we usually mean things like gravitation, or heredity, or the laws of chemistry. But when the older thinkers called the Law of Right and Wrong 'the Law of Nature,' they really meant the Law of Human Nature. The idea was that, just as all bodies are governed by the law of gravitation, and organisms by biological laws, so the creature called man also had his law--with this great difference, that a body could not choose whether it obeyed the law of gravitation or not, but a man could choose either to obey the Law of Human Nature or to disobey it.

We may put this in another way. Each man is at every moment subjected to several different sets of law but there is only one of these which he is free to disobey. As a body, he is subjected to gravitation and cannot disobey it; if you leave him unsupported in mid-air, he has no more choice about falling than a stone has. As an organism, he is subjected to various biological laws which he cannot disobey any more than an animal can. That is, he cannot disobey those laws which he shares with other things; but the law which is peculiar to his human nature, the law he does not share with animals or vegetables or inorganic things, is the one he can disobey if he chooses.

This law was called the Law of Nature because people thought that every one knew it by nature and did not need to be taught it. They did not mean, of course, that you might not find an odd individual here and there who did not know it, just as you find a few people who are colour-blind or have no ear for a tune. But taking the race as a whole, they thought that the human idea of decent behaviour was obvious to every one. And I believe they were right. If they were not, then all the things we said about the war were nonsense. What was the sense in saying the enemy were in the wrong unless Right is a real thing which the Nazis at bottom knew as well as we did and ought to have practised? If they had had no notion of what we mean by right, then, though we might still have had to fight them, we could no more have blamed them for that than for the colour of their hair.

I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behaviour known to all men is unsound, because different civilizations and different ages have had quite different moralities.

But this is not true. There have been differences between their moralities, but these have never amounted to anything like a total difference. If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what people you ought to be unselfish to--whether it was only your own family, or your fellow countrymen, or every one. But they have always agreed that you ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.

But the most remarkable thing is this. Whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real Right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking one to him he will be complaining 'It's not fair' before you can say Jack Robinson. A nation may say treaties do not matter; but then, next minute, they spoil their case by saying that the particular treaty they want to break was an unfair one. But if treaties do not matter, and if there is no such thing as Right and Wrong--in other words, if there is no Law of Nature--what is the difference between a fair treaty and an unfair one? Have they not let the cat out of the bag and shown that, whatever they say, they really know the Law of Nature just like anyone else?

It seems, then, we are forced to believe in a real Right and Wrong. People may be sometimes mistaken about them, just as people sometimes get their sums wrong; but they are not a matter of mere taste and opinion any more than the multiplication table. Now if we are agreed about that, I go on to my next point, which is this. None of us are really keeping the Law of Nature. If there are any exceptions among you, I apologise to them. They had much better read some other book, for nothing I am going to say concerns them. And now, turning to the ordinary human beings who are left:

I hope you will not misunderstand what I am going to say. I am not preaching, and Heaven knows I do not pretend to be better than anyone else. I am only trying to call attention to a fact; the fact that this year, or this month, or, more likely, this very day, we have failed to practise ourselves the kind of behaviour we expect from other people. There may be all sorts of excuses for us. That time you were so unfair to the children was when you were very tired. That slightly shady business about the money--the one you have almost forgotten-came when you were very hard up. And what you promised to do for old So-and-so and have never done--well, you never would have promised if you had known how frightfully busy you were going to be. And as for your behaviour to your wife (or husband) or sister (or brother) if I knew how irritating they could be, I would not wonder at it--and who the dickens am I, anyway? I am just the same. That is to say, I do not succeed in keeping the Law of Nature very well, and the moment anyone tells me I am not keeping it, there starts up in my mind a string of excuses as long as your arm. The question at the moment is not whether they are good excuses. The point is that they are one more proof of how deeply, whether we like it or not, we believe in the Law of Nature. If we do not believe in decent behaviour, why should we be so anxious to make excuses for not having behaved decently? The truth is, we believe in decency so much--we feel the Rule or Law pressing on us so--that we cannot bear to face the fact that we are breaking it, and consequently we try to shift the responsibility. For you notice that it is only for our bad behaviour that we find all these explanations. It is only our bad temper that we put down to being tired or worried or hungry; we put our good temper down to ourselves.

These, then, are the two points I wanted to make. First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in.


...continue reading on if you can be bothered.
"Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbour as you love yourself. If you do these things you're doing well" - Phil Joel
Chobo_Abe
Profile Joined September 2006
United States168 Posts
April 18 2007 07:11 GMT
#196
It's called forgiveness... Salvation is ours through Jesus but it's not to be abused or you burn in hell motherfucker.

And I do consider myself a Christian. Even though I masterbated to pics of hot chicks. Think about how badly I can kick this guy's ass. Wish some people would disappear from the world. No i'm not psychotic. I pray every night asking god to forgive me and to also change me to become a better person. And you know what? If you really try to change it'll happen. I'm better now, I don't look at porn. I'm nicer to people. I even have a job, best friends, and people know me as a nice guy.

I also hope that these idiots who go around talking about God and trying to convert them through christianity by talking and telling them, "Hey you're going to hell if you're not a christian." KNOW that they're just the same kind of person as those other idiots who walk around Manhattan with nothing on but a White board saying, "THE END IS COMING!!"
OverTheUnder
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2929 Posts
April 18 2007 07:14 GMT
#197
ok guys (xel, Rebel)

I just want to make sure you realize something. Today, I'm pretty sure most "Christians" don't take the bible word for word and they have beliefs similar to overmind. ( I guess I don't have statistics on this so I could be wrong, but regadl

I just want you guys to realize that you are part of an elitist group and that there are probably more "Christians" like Overmind then there are "Christians" like you. The difference is they claim the only requirement to be christian is belief that Jesus died for your sins.

I'm not really trying to say anything, just stating the fact that the view you guys hold makes alot of today's Christians "fake."
Honor would be taking it up the ass and curing all diseases, damn how stupid can people get. -baal http://puertoricanbw.ytmnd.com/
Annor[BbG]
Profile Joined April 2007
United States55 Posts
April 18 2007 07:28 GMT
#198
On April 18 2007 15:46 Never Post wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 15:31 Annor[BbG] wrote:
Many people have managed to disprove parts of the Evolutionary Theory. They have edited parts, added parts, removed parts, have they disproved Evolution as a whole?


I have never heard of anything like this. But even if it's true, it just shows that with something like a theory of evolution you can amend, adjust until it's correct. With the Bible, it's there - you either believe it or don't, if you take parts of it you nullify the usefulness of it. It's too much of a rigid, narrow way of thinking and we'll never get anywhere if we're locked in this thought pattern.

Show nested quote +

Oh? The Bible was proven false? Enlighten us, oh wise one. You know something that no one else does.


The date of the earth, a certain flood, Adam&Eve, the value of pi, etc.

Basically, things we can explain with scientific evidence and theories nowadays. The thing about science is it accepts that it can be wrong sometimes, it strives to find evidence and improve. People benefit from this, their understanding of the universe becomes clearer. They don't benefit from a dusty old scripture that talks absurdities.


I agree, anyone that takes parts of the Bible to support themselves is wrong. You have to take the Bible as a whole if you want to defend any part of the Bible.

I love how through out this entire thread you make sure not to explain things clearly. I asked for examples and you give paraphrases off some website you looked at a few years ago and can't exactly remember everything so you just say it in a few word. Here I'll help your thought train.

Date of the Earth?
How so? We know how long the Earth has existed? How can we know how long the Earth has existed if we weren't there when it started? I guess we could make educated guesses based on the things we know, but if we only know scientifically things that are about to 10,000 years old, how do you judge if something is 100,000 or 1 million, or 1 billion? To relate it to Starcraft, that's like watching an 4 second clip, one screen size in the middle of the map, and being able to tell me who won, where their bases were started at, and how many units have already died in the game. Its impossible

A certain flood?
Yeah, that deserves an lol. You don't even know what the flood is called off hand (otherwise you would have named it), so that means you don't even know the basics on the subject. Which means you A) have a horrible memory or B) never researched it enough to commit it to long term memory. Better go look it up.

Adam and Eve?
Not bad, so your denying the existence of the beginning for the human race? We just spontaneously appeared as a civilization or that we always existed. Hypothetically, how would you even begin to physically prove that the there were not two first humans? Yeah, you can't unless you find their bodies and they are wearing name tags saying Jack and Jill on them.

The value of pi. If you read the passage in the Bible in never mentions a value of pi, that value is inferred from the passage because they say the diameter and circumference in the passage and the mathematical values don't align with it. An explanation that I favor is it says "Brim to Brim" which is outside to outside and then says "compass it round about" which clearly states contained within. Making the size accurate. It also says a few verses later that there were flowers on the outside, which further supports the dimensions within the Bible.


As you say science is always correcting errors. Errors that mislead people from birth until death sometimes. Although you may be living in a time that you consider the 'right' science, so many people historically put their faith in that same science and died without even knowing it was wrong. It takes a lot more faith to believe in something that you know has been proven wrong in the past, then to believe in something that hasn't been proven wrong yet. You have more faith than I ever will.
OverTheUnder
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2929 Posts
April 18 2007 08:00 GMT
#199
On April 18 2007 16:28 Annor[BbG] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 15:46 Never Post wrote:
On April 18 2007 15:31 Annor[BbG] wrote:
Many people have managed to disprove parts of the Evolutionary Theory. They have edited parts, added parts, removed parts, have they disproved Evolution as a whole?


I have never heard of anything like this. But even if it's true, it just shows that with something like a theory of evolution you can amend, adjust until it's correct. With the Bible, it's there - you either believe it or don't, if you take parts of it you nullify the usefulness of it. It's too much of a rigid, narrow way of thinking and we'll never get anywhere if we're locked in this thought pattern.


Oh? The Bible was proven false? Enlighten us, oh wise one. You know something that no one else does.


The date of the earth, a certain flood, Adam&Eve, the value of pi, etc.

Basically, things we can explain with scientific evidence and theories nowadays. The thing about science is it accepts that it can be wrong sometimes, it strives to find evidence and improve. People benefit from this, their understanding of the universe becomes clearer. They don't benefit from a dusty old scripture that talks absurdities.


I agree, anyone that takes parts of the Bible to support themselves is wrong. You have to take the Bible as a whole if you want to defend any part of the Bible.

I love how through out this entire thread you make sure not to explain things clearly. I asked for examples and you give paraphrases off some website you looked at a few years ago and can't exactly remember everything so you just say it in a few word. Here I'll help your thought train.

Date of the Earth?
How so? We know how long the Earth has existed? How can we know how long the Earth has existed if we weren't there when it started? I guess we could make educated guesses based on the things we know, but if we only know scientifically things that are about to 10,000 years old, how do you judge if something is 100,000 or 1 million, or 1 billion? To relate it to Starcraft, that's like watching an 4 second clip, one screen size in the middle of the map, and being able to tell me who won, where their bases were started at, and how many units have already died in the game. Its impossible


A certain flood?
Yeah, that deserves an lol. You don't even know what the flood is called off hand (otherwise you would have named it), so that means you don't even know the basics on the subject. Which means you A) have a horrible memory or B) never researched it enough to commit it to long term memory. Better go look it up.

Adam and Eve?
Not bad, so your denying the existence of the beginning for the human race? We just spontaneously appeared as a civilization or that we always existed. Hypothetically, how would you even begin to physically prove that the there were not two first humans? Yeah, you can't unless you find their bodies and they are wearing name tags saying Jack and Jill on them.

The value of pi. If you read the passage in the Bible in never mentions a value of pi, that value is inferred from the passage because they say the diameter and circumference in the passage and the mathematical values don't align with it. An explanation that I favor is it says "Brim to Brim" which is outside to outside and then says "compass it round about" which clearly states contained within. Making the size accurate. It also says a few verses later that there were flowers on the outside, which further supports the dimensions within the Bible.


As you say science is always correcting errors. Errors that mislead people from birth until death sometimes. Although you may be living in a time that you consider the 'right' science, so many people historically put their faith in that same science and died without even knowing it was wrong. It takes a lot more faith to believe in something that you know has been proven wrong in the past, then to believe in something that hasn't been proven wrong yet. You have more faith than I ever will.


horrible analogy, lol;o

We measure time based on the nature of radioactive material. We know the rate at which certain elements decay, and so can reverse the process to find the age. If you really want to make an analogy, it would be this.

We know that there were 64 marines at the start of the game. We also know that half of the current marines die roughly every 20 minutes. We look and see there are 4 marines left now. We can now use this to determine how long the game has lasted. In this case, it has lasted for around 80 minutes.



As for the last sentence about "you have more faith then I ever will" you KNOW that is wrong. If you didn't know, then you probably shouldn't be arguing here;/

There is not faith in science. We don't believe these things 100%. If new evidence comes along and holds up, it changes our views. To be fair, science the past few thousand years is nothing compared to what it is today. Now there are millions of scientists all around the world critiquing eachothers experiments and making sure they adhere to the scientific method. The things that do get proven wrong (if they do) will most likely be things like the big bang. Stuff that we consider likely theories, but by no means are sure of.

Now, if something came along to disprove that the earth was round, or disprove the laws of gravity, then alot of people WOULD be shocked, but they would STILL take the new evidence and add it to give us a more complete understanding.
Honor would be taking it up the ass and curing all diseases, damn how stupid can people get. -baal http://puertoricanbw.ytmnd.com/
Myxomatosis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2392 Posts
April 18 2007 08:09 GMT
#200
On April 18 2007 11:59 XelNaga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2007 11:56 ZaplinG wrote:
dinosaur bones and the ancestry of humans is far from not being true.

where did the bones come from? i suppose someone planted billions of them all over the world in an effort to disrupt christianity?


They existed at the same time is what I was getting at.

lol. humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time? so, like 10,000 years ago there were giant lizard things walking around with humans? haha, then they all died in a giant flood and only noah survived along with every other extant species on the earth today. how old do you think the world is?
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