Right now every streamer who plays protoss or terran are unanimously in agreement that the hydralisk is too strong
It is too strong vs bio mech and protoss, even with vast economic advantages you cant beat it
It mitigates the battlecruiser buffs and makes the unit useless again
This is so broken right now, a lot of people are threatening to quit and this is the last thing we need right now, even zerg players realize making only one unit that counters everything, can chase down everything, outranges almost everything is wrong and bad for the game
I wasnt going to say anything because i thought this is so widespread seeing uthermal, dragon and even x5 pig saying the hydra range is outright unnacceptable and gamebreaking but since i do not see any posts where people can help provide "feedback" about this to blizzard, i am making a post now
Just wait until people come here saying "let the meta settle, players will find a way to deal with that"... Maybe in 6 months or one year, Blizzard will actually do something, who knows...
On November 30 2016 22:33 petro1987 wrote: Just wait until people come here saying "let the meta settle, players will find a way to deal with that"... Maybe in 6 months or one year, Blizzard will actually do something, who knows...
Yes. Aggression being considered "overpowered" till it was figured out and understood NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE LITERALLY NEVER XD
That said, personally I have no idea if Hydralisks are too strong at the moment or not - I only play StarCraft very casually these days - 1 or 2 games as warmup before dota XD
As a meching terran, i kinda enjoy the interaction of mech vs hydras. The problem unit here is the Viper, at least vs terran. It completely shuts down...well, pretty much everything.
On November 30 2016 22:33 petro1987 wrote: Just wait until people come here saying "let the meta settle, players will find a way to deal with that"... Maybe in 6 months or one year, Blizzard will actually do something, who knows...
Yes. Aggression being considered "overpowered" till it was figured out and understood NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE LITERALLY NEVER XD
That said, personally I have no idea if Hydralisks are too strong at the moment or not - I only play StarCraft very casually these days - 1 or 2 games as warmup before dota XD
I never said it never happened. But it's pretty clear that hydras are not a strong timing. The unit is just solid and quite strong. The biggest issue tho, is that Blizzard takes way too much time to actually make sensible changes to anything. It took 1 year to nerf ultra armor from 8 to 7. Reapers are still pretty strong in all-ins.
At the same time, silly things like bunker build time was changed several times. The cyclone was nerfed before 3.8 went live, and now they are already considering undoing those changes. There is no consistency at all. Huge things are kept unchanged for literally years, while silly things are changed all the time.
FIRST OF ALL i have been masters since WOL beta when diamond was the highest rank equal to grandmaster right now, and no person who understands the game would even contemplate defending the hydralisk in the current state of the game.
Dont tempt me to make a youtube video with clips from how beastyqt lost 3 games going mass battlecruiser being 40 dronekills 3 base snipes and 30 supply ahead, ill sub him and get his VOD, he will never admit anything on balance because he is a pro but in that game he literally admitted that it was "bullshit" and "there is no way i should have lost that being that far ahead"
the same is true for every terran streamer, there is not a shadow of a doubt that the new hydra hardcounters battlecruisers
Dont tempt me to make ANOTHER youtube vid showing how 10 infestors beat 20 carriers
as long as you do not targetfire the infestors, the infestors will kill 2 carriers for every 1 infestor you have due to a bug where a neuraled carrier will have its interceptors shot down by the enemy carriers, so if you block the LOS with overlords/army and use BURROWED infestors to cast neural, you CANNOT targetfirethem
THEREFORE 3 INFESTORS KILL 6 CARRIERS and in a real game you will have many times that amount of infestors.
It is not my job to educate you like this, the new hydralisk outranges battlecruisers by 1 so you can kite them, if you spent any time watching mech players play you would know this is a huge issue
Week into new season, people still don't know (didn't read/hear?) that this season is going to be treated as an offseason for tuning/modifying or even reverting some of the changes
Maybe they should put this on the 1v1 screen in the menu, with comic sans for visibility
On November 30 2016 23:03 Aocowns wrote: i dont think you understand bro we gotta tinker with cyclone ground range instead of changing hydras and carriers eksdee
Hydras are way too strong in a general sense, but the truth is that they have buffed Terran and Protoss air so much that it's actually necessary. It's not the best design since this completely removes Terran and Protoss ground from the surface of the Earth. The 7 range is really problematic because it changes so many dynamics of matchups, in a bad way I would argue. Forcefields work against the protoss, static defense is almost useless vs Hydras, since they have the same range!. They even outrange Planetary Fortress prior to the +1 engibay range upgrade. 7 range breaks the matchups too much, but a Hydra buff is indeed needed if we want to buff the air late game, which we do, since it's cool to bring in more diversity to matchups and allow some true Technology progression to happen inside of the game. For me 7 range is just ridiculous, in the old days the Stalker was considered a long range strider. Things that outrange static defense was considered Siege and things that didn't was normal combat units. The further we extend the unit ranges, the more it will look like a death ball and the less, getting good concaves and taking control of ramps will matter!
I have been thinking of a buff to Hydras and maybe it's to remove the 50% speed on creep multiplier and make it 30% like all other units, but then increase Hydras base speed to that of a Dark Templar. This would make it so Hydras move just as fast on creep post this change, but it will be much faster off of creep. Then you could change the speed upgrade into a only + speed multiplier on creep, bringing it back to 50%+ movement speed on creep and throw in a Mutalisk regeneration as long as the Hydralisk is on Creep. That way it really gets significantly stronger on the defense and if you want to do rogue attacks with Hydras, using Overlords to make creep highways, or spreading creep tumours, or using Nydus will be crucial. Combine this with nerfing the +2 range back to +1, but still seperate upgrade, would probably tone down the Hydralisk enough so that it doesn't destroy all normal unit compositions, but still make it different enough to bring some Zerginess to the unit, as well as to deal with those pesky Carriers and BC's. Giving them the speed of DT's right off the back, would also make it more possible to destroy greedy Carrier play, while then backing up and get a true counter in the late game. Suggesion: Hydralisk movement speed: 3.15 -> 3.94 Speed Multiplier on Creep: 1.5 -> 1.3 Range upgrade: 2 -> 1 Muscular Augments: Hydralisks move 25% faster both on and off of Creep -> On Creep Hydralisks move 20% faster and have it's health regeneration rate increased to 1.4 HP/second.
Pre upgrades, the only change is that Hydralisks move faster off of Creep. Post upgrades the only changes is that Hydra range is nerfed by 1 and they have Mutalisk regeneration on Creep.
This is just an example, there are plenty of other ways to change Hydras, ex. you could give them an inherent 6 range, but remove the range upgrade.
On November 30 2016 22:50 ihatevideogames wrote: As a meching terran, i kinda enjoy the interaction of mech vs hydras. The problem unit here is the Viper, at least vs terran. It completely shuts down...well, pretty much everything.
i agree 100% with this, but to nerf the viper you would have to make it either channel its abilities and so killing the viper would cancel them
or i would remove consume so the unit needs to regen energy like the ravens or templars do
blizzard are not aware of how overpowered this unit is, this is actually a very cojent point, i made a post about the viper here
There are about 6 unique great examples of the viper being gamebreaking and outright ridiculous in its instantaneous shutdown of the entire 200/200 3/3 mech army, rendering siege tanks entirely useless and liberators into sitting ducks waiting to be abducted
On November 30 2016 22:50 ihatevideogames wrote: As a meching terran, i kinda enjoy the interaction of mech vs hydras. The problem unit here is the Viper, at least vs terran. It completely shuts down...well, pretty much everything.
This is my experience too. Hydra armies vs Tanks seem fun with firepower vs mobility, but when Vipers hit the field, oh boy.
It just feels like you can't have both a strong "basic" army AND a super strong counter. Like in BW Dark Swarm was great to compensate for mediocre ground units, but this new bydra is not mediocre anymore. Something has got to give i think.
On November 30 2016 22:59 aQuaSC wrote: Week into new season, people still don't know (didn't read/hear?) that this season is going to be treated as an offseason for tuning/modifying or even reverting some of the changes
Maybe they should put this on the 1v1 screen in the menu, with comic sans for visibility
They arrent tuning the hydra swarmhost viper or carrier, saying this is incredibly ignorant seeing as how mech got nerfed into the ground not too long ago, AND NEVER GOT UN NERFED EVEN SEEING THE DEMISE OF THE STYLE
do you know how many pros casters or high tier players play mech? do you know how many mech players and personalities just outright quit the game? do you?
how about mario, sjow or strelok
This post is not screaming bloody murder, this post is merely a forum for people to give blizzard proper feedback which is like this:
Zerg players have infinite bias and find nothing wrong with hydras being the only required unit
Protoss and terran players of both mech and bio persuassion agree the hydralisk is too strong and the range must be reverted in a hotfix, and there is no doubt about it.
EPT![[image loading]](http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/4/4c/Hydralisk_SC2_Cncpt3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091028225625)
