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United Kingdom20304 Posts
They got lucky on the RNG, it happens.
You don't seem to acknowledge the removal of the ability to get lucky on RNG. It's gone, you can't get this insane boost towards a 2'nd or 3'rd legendary any more. They didn't just get lucky, the system was literally broken in a way that presented an large, temporary unfair advantage to a fraction of the playerbase who deserved no more than everybody else.
Vast majority of people across all levels of play are not at all happy about this. You're attacking the people that do not agree rather than attacking their arguments, i still don't see much of substance to respond to. You don't think that the power difference is enough to care about, that's fair enough but it's a personal opinion that many/most people do not share.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Vast majority of people is the vocal minority's complaining on online media?
Citation needed that its the majority of people across all levels of play.
The vast majority of people probably don't even know this bug exists. I have said why I think its a terrible idea and you seem to discredit that in your first half of your post then give it credit later
I don't know what your post is supposed to say.
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United Kingdom20304 Posts
It's pretty damn hard to sample people outside of WoW sites (MMO champ, reddit, official forums) and ingame experiences with endgame content (world quests, leveling, all dungeon difficulties, achievement hunting etc). Go ask people in barrens chat if you want. The people saying this stuff are at the very least a strong majority in the community that actively plays and talks about the game.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Exactly, so why are you making a statement that "most people" find this to be true?
Don't think you think there is a bias in the typ of people that will respond, the typ of people that browse online forums, etc? There are over 5 million people playing this game. Moreover, if you give it a week or two, will people still be as mad? will they still "demand" the same? will they still be completely angry?
Blizzard is the only one who can make a reasonable estimate of people's opinions because they have access to data like that and probably have better ways of aggregating it.
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United Kingdom20304 Posts
Probably closer to 10, but sure. There will be bias but those who actively play and discuss endgame content (world quests, leveling, all dungeon difficulties, achievement hunting etc) are both the most represented and the most relevant
I can't see this going through without further changes
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unless you're getting kicked outta mythic raid groups because someone RNG'ed 2 legs it's really not a big deal
altho in that situation i'd be furious :D
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8749 Posts
It seems to me that the people who have played a lot probably should have gotten a legendary at this point. Why have the order hall two legendary research come as soon as it does if it's supposed to be extremely unlikely for anyone to even have two at that point? That's not something a game designer just does thoughtlessly because anyone who knows they can equip two while they haven't even looted one is going to be disappointed/upset, especially if they've been playing a ton. Game designers would have had to engineered that feeling of disappointment on purpose. But they wouldn't do that. It's not Blizzard's style, especially for WoW. So that's why I think we're all supposed to have been getting more legendaries than we have. The game design on the order hall research is inexplicable otherwise.
Conclusion: I don't think it's that crazy for them to make a change that makes legendaries start dropping a lot more.
edit: Maybe raid bosses have a much much bigger chance of dropping a legendary than anything else, and anyone that hasn't gotten one yet is gonna be almost guaranteed to get one within the first 3 weeks of raiding, which would end up beating the order hall research. But still, it seems like other than people who have benefited from this bug, there aren't gonna be many people with two legendaries waiting on their research to finish.
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what about pvpers, shouldnt we to then get legendaries
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I find this idea of "free" legendaries ridiculous. How is it any more free if blizzard tweaked the system that in the next day or 2, emissary chests would have massive chance to give one legendary to people with 0, than the people who lucked out and already got 2 or 3? What did they do to earn that? How was theirs not free? It was down to RNG, any they got beyond the first was due to a bugged system, but we're all bound to get one due to the pity timer anyway, do you consider that one free as well then?
I mean, I got over 8 days /played at 110 already, I haven't got one. Our whole guild with over 50 active players since launch have got...7 total? 2 of them today, within an hour of each other.
Now this bug has benefitted a handful of people immensily by giving 1/4th or 1/3rd of the legendaries in the system already. Even if they can't wear them all, they have a decent chance that they actually scored one of the good legendaries that actually make a big performance difference.
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There's no good solutions to this issues, it just should not have happened at all and Blizzard should have put more care into making sure the algorythm for legendaries were corrects beforehand.
In the end, we can discuss this endlessly, but you can't deny that some people will get benched over guildmates because the guildmate got lucky and has the 2 legendaries while the other doesn't. It's a fact to live with already and it sucks but that's how it is.
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might be the case for a aspiring top3 guild, anyone else who gets benched cuz he has no legendary is probably very bad at the game and its just a bullshit excuse to not get him a spot in the rooster.
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United Kingdom20304 Posts
No need for any guild/benching argument - these kinds of loot issues are just shit for every kind of player.
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done every quest and almost every worldquest and still havent got a single one
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There is very simple solution to this and they even removed it. Remove legendary effects from mythic raids.
Method has something like +22 leges, nice game. They were warned about leges but oh well, Blizzard wants RNG because nothing says fun like raiding, insert last raid of exp, for one year hoping to get those max ilvl,socket, tertiary bis items right.
Hopefully after Legion Blizzard does full swing once again we get rid of all this fucking titanforged and othe rng bs.
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Yes legendaries are dumb and have been complained about since they were first announced. Giving big game changing effects to a very small selection of people is stupid.
But I just wanted to respond to the idea of 'don't fix the bug'. You realize this is completely counter productive right?
Those who have legendaries would have continued to get one every 2-3 weeks while those without would remain extremely unlikely to get one. Your solution to the bug is to keep widening the gap...
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On September 16 2016 18:19 DCRed wrote:
There is very simple solution to this and they even removed it. Remove legendary effects from mythic raids.
Method has something like +22 leges, nice game. They were warned about leges but oh well, Blizzard wants RNG because nothing says fun like raiding, insert last raid of exp, for one year hoping to get those max ilvl,socket, tertiary bis items right.
Hopefully after Legion Blizzard does full swing once again we get rid of all this fucking titanforged and othe rng bs.
I suppose Method did that by having everyone on the guild playing multiple characters? I wonder how many per player. Funny stuff.
Regarding extreme loot RNG, I doubt it will disappear. It has been a huge factor in the success of games like Hearthstone or various Valve games like CS. People just like that gambling feeling, that hoping for a good roll, too much. Or rather it is what keeps people addicted to games. So now its put everywhere. Of course loot RNG has always been a big factor in WoW, it is just that it has been increased even more.
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RNG in CS or "Valve Games" doesn't drastically improve your Performance.
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United Kingdom20304 Posts
But I just wanted to respond to the idea of 'don't fix the bug'. You realize this is completely counter productive right?
Those who have legendaries would have continued to get one every 2-3 weeks while those without would remain extremely unlikely to get one. Your solution to the bug is to keep widening the gap...
Pre-patch:
Player 1 gets legendary at 100 hours, then at 150 and 200
Player 2 gets legendary at 400 hours, then at 450, 500
-------
Post-patch:
Player 1 gets legendary at 100 hours, then at 150 and 200
patch happens
Player 2 gets legendary at 400 hours then 800 hours
Player 1 gets a fourth legendary at 600 hours, making it 3-4 vs 1 at a time where s/he can equip two
-------
First situation is much more fair than the second one even if both are screwed up. RNG loot isn't neccesarily such a bad thing but unfair RNG loot (many more dicerolls given to certain people who triggered a bug) with actual power attached to it is a gamebreaking problem
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On September 16 2016 21:42 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +But I just wanted to respond to the idea of 'don't fix the bug'. You realize this is completely counter productive right?
Those who have legendaries would have continued to get one every 2-3 weeks while those without would remain extremely unlikely to get one. Your solution to the bug is to keep widening the gap... Pre-patch: Player 1 gets legendary at 100 hours, then at 150 and 200 Player 2 gets legendary at 300 hours, then at 350, 400 ------- Post-patch: Player 1 gets legendary at 100 hours, then at 150 and 200 patch happens Player 2 gets legendary at 400 hours then 800 hours Player 1 gets a fourth legendary at 600 hours, making it 3-4 vs 1 at a time where s/he can equip two ------- First situation is much more fair than the second one even if both are screwed up. RNG loot isn't neccesarily such a bad thing but unfair RNG loot (many more dicerolls given to certain people who triggered a bug) with actual power attached to it is a gamebreaking problem
Your first example is definitely wrong. Prepatch doesn't mean Player 1 stops getting legendaries.
Assuming raids, for example, open up at 400 hours. Then it's more like:
Player 1 gets legendary at 100 hours, then at 150 and 200 and 250 and 300 and 350 and 400 (all guaranteed after the first drop)
Player 2 maybe gets a legendary by 300, in which case he'll also have one at 350 and 400. Or maybe he won't even get one.
So player 1 who had an early drop now has a guaranteed 7 legendaries. Player 2 might have gotten lucky and got the first drop, in which case he'll have 3, or maybe he got slightly unlucky with no drop, and now still has 0.
Postpatch player 1 will still have 3. He won't have a guaranteed 7, whereas player 2 now maybe gets lucky and gets 1 legendary, or maybe doesn't and still has 0. This is clearly massively more fair than the prepatch option.
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8749 Posts
Blizzard estimates the numbers of dungeons, boxes and raid bosses a progression raider kills. Then they make it very likely for someone who has zero legendaries, but is a committed player doing all these activities, to have two legendaries within a few weeks of mythic coming out. Third and further legendaries take months each. So anyone who didn't get lucky can get a quick catch-up, and everyone for the rest of the expansion can expect their new character to get a few legendaries quickly, which is fun (and makes the order hall research make sense). Ultimately, the average competitive player is about a month behind the lucky ones.
Or, I hate to say it, but why not just keeping give a player a legendary every few weeks. There are a lot to collect across three specs. We can equip only two at a time so getting three or more is just about choice. We started the expansion by being given an artifact for doing a short solo scenario. There's a new grind in AP so it'd be better if gear was less of a grind in some ways, not more of a grind. Guilds wouldn't have to feel like dropping a player for someone else with a particular legendary because by next tier everyone ought to have every legendary for their main spec. So get rid of the bad luck protection and make it so that a player who does WQ's every day, random heroic every day, mythics every week, and clears the raid will get a legendary every two weeks on average.
Why does Blizzard hold out? I feel like they avoid handouts out of respect for hardcore players but it's the hardcore players getting screwed the most by the system.
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EPT
