EPT[STL]Playoffs - Request
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trutaCz
Poland686 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9498 Posts
With that said, I agree, delaying it for one week would allow teams to prepare better and in return provide us all with better games! | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
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Terrorterran
Peru256 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States505 Posts
Anyway, I do have to agree with trutaCz's assessment, a little more time would be more favorable for everyone. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6556 Posts
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On January 31 2014 06:37 LRM)TechnicS wrote: yeah, I agree completely with trutaCz, more time pls I think it's wonderful how people from the same team can agree with each other so often. | ||
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trutaCz
Poland686 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
Also in terms of trading players, there was never an agreed upon rule. Is it that you can add any player who wasn't on another team or trade among teams remaining? | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On January 31 2014 08:19 trutaCz wrote: I think your opinion here is also wonderful and have so much common with the topic, go away with your offtop.. It's pretty on-topic... I mean, no other team agrees that they need an extra week to "prepare". But why would you post this anyhow? You're not the leader of the LRM. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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mEATshEILd
Sweden15 Posts
As for the format, it will be as in the group stage, in addition to the updates of the oxide and overwatch and map order: 7 sets of Bo1 (for both semifinals and finals). New players can be added 72 hours before the start of the matches and the line-up must be submitted to the admins before the matches start (preferably 30 min before the start of the match). Good luck to you all! | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On January 31 2014 19:51 mEATshEILd wrote: When the playoff starts, each team has played every other week for 14 weeks. Postponing the playoffs because some teams need more training is, in my personal opinion, unnecessary. All teams have the same starting conditions, in terms of time for preparation and so on. As for the format, it will be as in the group stage, in addition to the updates of the oxide and overwatch and map order: 7 sets of Bo1 (for both semifinals and finals). New players can be added 72 hours before the start of the matches and the line-up must be submitted to the admins before the matches start (preferably 30 min before the start of the match). Good luck to you all! When qualifying for the playoffs for a somewhat meaningful league, announcing the playoff schedule to the teams one and a half days before the playoffs itself is showing, at the very very least, shallow seriousness and a major slack in the organizing process of the league. Even more so, when one of the teams involved is heavily inactive + having at least one of its major players not show up for most of the cws (sziky) + that has given a w.o already in an important CW (against LF). I can understand that SBWI wrongfully (but in a rush, which is very understandable) got anxious that LRM with Sziky would eventually turn the league into a stompfest (and thus allowed Scan to play even that the rules written in this manner completely forbid it). Given all that, one can get slightly suspicious that at least somebody wants Sziky to not show up again... even though that, in theory, we are still slight underdogs when he does show up. | ||
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
also the request was denied so no point in keep arguing about it | ||
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dsaqwe.
Croatia274 Posts
Always problem with same persons / teams ..... | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
One of the simplest organisational things to do: get information out early enough so no issues arise. One and a half days before the playoff is showing, as I said, the very least shallow seriousness and a major slack in the process of organizing. For a number of reasons, it's the better way to go. | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
first of all, nobody gives a shit anymore about sziky being on lrm).  also, allowing scan to play was decided before sziky switched teams. sziky is inactive because he doesn't care about your soulless team (yes i think you are all cold automatons^^), and will not be any more active next week than he is now. unless like, TLS is announced to start in 4 days.  i personally expected playoffs to start next week and was quite surprised, so i agree it was short notice. i even expressed this in the correct thread. *wink wink* making a new thread i can understand since it will probably get you more attention, and you already got your answer from an organizer. it was worth a try, but there's no point pushing it further. it will just make you look cute and silly like ninazerg. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19230 Posts
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mEATshEILd
Sweden15 Posts
On January 31 2014 21:08 LRM)TechnicS wrote: When qualifying for the playoffs for a somewhat meaningful league, announcing the playoff schedule to the teams one and a half days before the playoffs itself is showing, at the very very least, shallow seriousness and a major slack in the organizing process of the league. Even more so, when one of the teams involved is heavily inactive + having at least one of its major players not show up for most of the cws (sziky) + that has given a w.o already in an important CW (against LF). I can understand that SBWI wrongfully (but in a rush, which is very understandable) got anxious that LRM with Sziky would eventually turn the league into a stompfest (and thus allowed Scan to play even that the rules written in this manner completely forbid it). Given all that, one can get slightly suspicious that at least somebody wants Sziky to not show up again... even though that, in theory, we are still slight underdogs when he does show up. The entire league can not stop just because some teams need more pratice. We were late with the announcement, that is true, but we never gave any indication that there would be a paus before the start of the playoffs. It's not the organizers of STL:s responsability to make sure the participating teams/players are active and practicing, especially before the playoffs. This is SBWI:s first team league, things we learn know will be part in improving the next season/project. We are committed to keep foreign-BW alive and well, our seriousness in this matter is undebatable! | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
Also thanks for the input of numerous subjective opinions and broad generalizations for the players in our team. I think they are mostly one-dimensional and/or shallow. Perhaps partly correct, mostly wrong but I don't care too much. I am sorry if I have affected you by my wording and/or the place where I post which perhaps were some of the reasons I induced the sarcasm. The basic thing I emphasize on is simple: announcing playoffs one and a half days before the playoffs equals, at least for me, to poor organisational sense, clear misstep etc. I feel I am spot on here. I was thinking that it's pretty normal for SBWI's first league to suffer from trial-and-error type of issues. But then again, I thought that it's not a problem that is impossible to solve, if I were in their shoes. I don't want to be understood wrong. I really like SBWI and the chance I will continue to like them is very high, but the late announcement is a completely wrong deicision on various levels. Refusing to act and correct that by delaying the playoffs by a week seems nothing more but stubborn to me. Also, there's a decent chance I might be unable to practice at all till next week too, even to be more uncomfortable for me to attend the playoffs. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On February 01 2014 00:40 LRM)TechnicS wrote: If that was to be true, nobody would give a shit about Sziky in LRM would be because he doesn't show up at all. Don't get it the wrong way, but this sounds as if Eywa recruiting Sziky was an elaborate plan of sas to get rid of their weakest player. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On January 31 2014 19:51 mEATshEILd wrote: When the playoff starts, each team has played every other week for 14 weeks. Postponing the playoffs because some teams need more training is, in my personal opinion, unnecessary. All teams have the same starting conditions, in terms of time for preparation and so on. As for the format, it will be as in the group stage, in addition to the updates of the oxide and overwatch and map order: 7 sets of Bo1 (for both semifinals and finals). New players can be added 72 hours before the start of the matches and the line-up must be submitted to the admins before the matches start (preferably 30 min before the start of the match). Good luck to you all! LRM) was the only team who wasn't aware they were in the playoffs, hence the complaint. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
(which is defintely not a conspiracy around (or against) Sziky or any other specific player) What it comes down to is communication, I think. Keeping the overview about things going on, making sure things are announced in time (a minimum of two weeks notice is probably adequate), also the little things, like letting people know if you won't have much time in the near future, to answer questions or work on things, are important, so it's at least clear what's going on and to set priorities: Infos need to be out in time and it's actually not much work to it (takes one short forum post); flavour (fancy banners, texts etc.) can wait. I am sure there will be internal discussion and organizational improvements regarding this before the next team league. As for the situation right now: Saying that you did not see the playoffs coming and that you are badly prepared is probably a bit exagerated - every one knew when group stages would be over after last week's maches and the idea of making any significant changes, like in the map pool, has already been droped, after all. That being said, personally I think the request of the OP is not an unreasonable one and I cannot see any real damage that delaying the playoffs for another week would cause aside from the fact that it would be just another short term change that would be imposed on players without sufficient notice, so it wouldn't necessarily be the right (or best) decision. The problem of late public announcement is unfortunately one that cannot be solved retroactively. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
dRaW: Consider this. iFU knew they were in the playoffs. sas knew they were in the playoffs. Peruvian team with ironic name knew they were in the playoffs. LRM) had no fucking clue, and after directly asking all organizers available to us for this league were given no response. The chat logs follow. To Jaevlaterran: [1/23/2014 3:39:36 AM] David Barr: are we in the playoffs? No response. To MeAtShIeLdAOLScReeNNamE: [1/23/2014 1:31:40 PM] David Barr: hi, are we in the playoffs? [1/24/2014 6:38:26 AM] mEATshEILd: well, it depends on if we decide to give all teams 4-0 vs AoV (because AoV are out of the tournament) and if PsB wins vs LaGFree with 4-0, then you are not. But the possibility of PsB 4-0:ing LaGFree are quiet low, in my opinion. [1/24/2014 6:49:07 AM] David Barr: I see, ty [1/24/2014 6:51:09 AM] mEATshEILd: np We never received word on the AoV decision. My next messages (of which I wasn't home for one day, because you know, real life): [1/28/2014 8:34:01 AM] mEATshEILd: Congrats to your spot in the STL1 playoffs! Good luck! [1/29/2014 8:29:47 AM] David Barr: when do they start? [1/29/2014 8:30:30 AM] mEATshEILd: the playoffs start 19:00 CET/13:00 EST on feb 1 [1/29/2014 8:31:02 AM] David Barr: and we're finding out today? [1/29/2014 8:31:02 AM] mEATshEILd: both semi-finals are play at the same time [1/29/2014 8:31:27 AM] mEATshEILd: yes [1/29/2014 8:31:33 AM] David Barr: lol k [1/29/2014 8:32:45 AM] mEATshEILd: well, u guys played for 7 weeks, its the same map pool, diffrent order and some updates. we figured u guys had some time to practice. [1/29/2014 8:33:02 AM] David Barr: why would we practice if we didn't know we were in? [1/29/2014 8:33:28 AM] mEATshEILd: we do apologizes for the delay [1/29/2014 8:36:58 AM] mEATshEILd: well, if you looked at the stats, you guy were in the playoffs two weeks ago. [1/29/2014 8:38:56 AM] mEATshEILd: Good luck in the playoffs! [9:35:14 AM] Jaevlaterran: I mentioned what you said in the organizing group [9:35:16 AM] Jaevlaterran: [3:32:14 PM] mEATshEILd: it is not [3:32:42 PM] mEATshEILd: they have played for 7 week. they have been a candidate for the playoffs for a long time [3:33:09 PM] mEATshEILd: not our responability that they dont pratice and have players that are inactive. [3:34:06 PM] mEATshEILd: but thats just my opinion. [9:35:25 AM] Jaevlaterran: this is what we all agreed on [9:37:25 AM] David Barr: You guys made no playoff announcement. As the organization, that's pretty much your only responsibility, let alone giving us enough time to clear our schedules for the playoffs. This is an old game and we're all adults with real life obligations. It's your fault as an organization that we don't have enough notice in any formality, official or not. Thus, I ask for the playoffs to be pushed back a week. They never, until probably right now as they're reading this realize that they never communicated anything to us and thus are solely to blame for all issues arising. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
So the only flaw remaining on the organizer's side is the late announcement of the definite date, but that cannot be retroactively changed and you cannot blame your own lack of foresight on it. You had to assume that a)you were in the playoffs and b) they would start once the group satges were over, which were both known long before. | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
My first reply here was to cut out all that long stuff I had to write eventually so I just wrote some short sentence of agreement. Also LRM is one of the most inactive teams for long time now, not just this season. I am talking facts that are valid for since mid 2008 and Choosy coming back for LRM in the recent days is a laughable and brittle argument for the opposite thesis. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On February 01 2014 03:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote: The main argument, imo, is not which team is prepared and which not. It's pretty simple organisational issue, not excuse imo. I couldn't find anywhere info in regards to playoffs schedule. The inactiveness just fuels the already necessary duty for organizers to announce earlier what's going on and when. What if someone wants to preplay a set? The time to do so is significantly hurt and narrowed. Even if nobody wants to preplay anything, it seems really off to announce one days and a half playoffs. My first reply here was to cut out all that long stuff I had to write eventually so I just wrote some short sentence of agreement. Also LRM is one of the most inactive teams for long time now, not just this season. I am talking facts that are valid for since mid 2008 and Choosy coming back for LRM in the recent days is a laughable and brittle argument for the opposite thesis. I can grab many LRM players with more ladder games on both fish and iccup than other teams and I bet that will surprise you. What do you consider active? (teams practicing among themselves? I can tell you sas never did anything of the sort) edit: Further, if you guys are so inactive then you can't request or complain for special treatment on delaying the playoffs so you may or may not prepare (how can you prepare if you guys are so inactive?) | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
I will spell it out again: "The main argument, imo, is not which team is prepared and which not. It's pretty simple organisational issue, not excuse imo. I couldn't find anywhere info in regards to playoffs schedule. The inactiveness just fuels the already necessary duty for organizers to announce earlier what's going on and when. What if someone wants to preplay a set? The time to do so is significantly hurt and narrowed. Even if nobody wants to preplay anything, it seems really off to announce one days and a half playoffs." Announcing playoffs in time is what is needed/wanted, not one and a half days before the games. Organisational etiquette. Super simple stuff. Ofc, there will be the occasional examples of active LRM players at given time, but the overall picture for years now is such that cannot be overwhelmed by 2-5 players imho | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 01 2014 04:58 skzlime wrote: i think i'm starting to understand better. so basically, if we play this saturday, LRM can't field their desired lineup, because the players have other known obligations and thus can't attend, but had they known earlier they could have, or should we play next saturday, they could. is this correct? If that is the case I would definitely say that merits weight, provided that Game is correct in that LRM was not given information to realize their playoff situation. For practicing I'm incline to accept the argument of one ought to be in practice generally, but when it comes to things like fielding lineups and people having to deal with work and stuff players cannot necessarily be asking for 2 days off on two separate weekends because playoffs might be on one of them. I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but if LRM wasn't given sufficient notice and had no way of knowing when the playoffs would start and thus don't have time to get days off/make time to field a proper lineup that's a pretty legitimate argument. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:17 L_Master wrote: I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but if LRM wasn't given sufficient notice and had no way of knowing when the playoffs would start and thus don't have time to get days off/make time to field a proper lineup that's a pretty legitimate argument. But even I knew LRM was in the play-offs, and I'm not even in the SBWI group or part of the league, and it seems like the only people who didn't know were LRM. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:37 ninazerg wrote: But even I knew LRM was in the play-offs, and I'm not even in the SBWI group or part of the league, and it seems like the only people who didn't know were LRM. If that is correct then it will be easy to show LRM ought to have known. What I am interested in is when the various teams knew what date the playoffs were going to be on. Anything less than a week realistically isn't enough time to get time off work/rearrange schedule. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On February 01 2014 04:10 ne4aJIb wrote: finally new drama in foreign bw! Foreign BW with no drama is no foreign BW! | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
- sas, lagfree, and ifu were already set to play at the designated time. It would be unfair to change the schedule at the point for a team claims to be largely inactive. - LRM should have been prepared, organization-wise, to play in the post-season games, regardless of the outcome of the unresolved issues. - LRM has a history of making frivolous complaints that would inconvenience everyone else for the sake of LRM and affiliates, often which benefit LRM. - Despite having large rosters, ifu and lagfree have not had any "organizational issues" that they have visibly complained about on the forums. sas has the opposite problem of being under-staffed, but have not publicly launched any similar complaints. - LRM, in all the leagues has lodged more complaints and petitions than every other team combined. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:17 L_Master wrote: If that is the case I would definitely say that merits weight, provided that Game is correct in that LRM was not given information to realize their playoff situation. For practicing I'm incline to accept the argument of one ought to be in practice generally, but when it comes to things like fielding lineups and people having to deal with work and stuff players cannot necessarily be asking for 2 days off on two separate weekends because playoffs might be on one of them. I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but if LRM wasn't given sufficient notice and had no way of knowing when the playoffs would start and thus don't have time to get days off/make time to field a proper lineup that's a pretty legitimate argument. Yeah, well. First off, it was kinda a sure thing LRM would advance, regardless of what happened between LaGFree and PsB, and regardless of what would happen with AoV. You can bet your ass LRM's management would've launched a massive complaint, IF this one case would have happend - AoV's opponents getting all 4-0s and PsB defeating LaGFree 4-0 or whatever the case was. It was kinda clear for three weeks now that LRM could basically do whatever and still finish fourth. Second, the way I think SBWI handles these things is to send out information to all parties at the same time. It really doesn't matter if that happens via Skype, MSN or TL.net posts. In case of Skype I can see how a manger can complain he would got the message relatively late, as either an SBWI official or the LRM manager was offline. That's bad luck, but it isn't SBWI's task to wait 24/7 for LRM's management to show up. Actually, that'd be poor from LRM's management. Third, LRM's management (I really do not refer to the players, I actually think most of them are quite cool, at least the guys I interviewed) is, as Nina pointed out, quite aware of rules and these things. They've could asked openly way before, they could have given notice and all that they might need one week to arrange things for the wars. That can be expected of LRM's management, it really can. The orgas claim that LRM is a top notch foreign team, they literally bought a player, they read rules thoroughly, yet they're the guys to scream loudest to not have enough players in shape to play. You can't go around and say you're serious eSports buiz people and then not get the basic stuff done. Fourth, most players playing in this league for LRM (who I can remember) are from Europe. They'd play Saturday evening, that's rarely a time most grown up adults work. There are jobs which require you to work in this time frame (and there's no judgement in this), but if you have a job with times on Saturday evening, you most likely have had no time in the weeks before. So that's kinda... strange. I might be completely wrong here, might be that half of LRM pre-played their games, but of that I never heard a thing. It's more like skzlime says, LRM feels like they won't get their players in time. But all other teams have to fight the same problem - all of them play on short notice. Terror politely asked to move it one week, skzlime says it'd prolly be better. Now look who storms in and throws the word bias in the room? It really looks more like superficial crying than an unsolvable problem. Not saying it was nice by SBWI to come out late with announces, but it's for sure not entirely their fault in this situation. I agree with TechnicS' statement that this does not follow the usual procedure, but still, it's something you could deal with on both ends. | ||
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sas.ZaRaki
Spain199 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
I, personally, didn't know anything about possible 4-0 for every team against AoV which would have given PsB a chance to take the spot. I was thinking we have 4th place and a match against sas locked after LRMvsSas CW. Announcing the date of the playoff is, for me, very important from organisational point of view. Yeah, I could have guessed that maybe in the next 1-3 weeks we are playing. But if we all rely on proper guessing, then why bother announcing at all? The organizer could as well not tell anybody and then wonder why there's nobody/1-2 guys in the channel. I am not sure if it's better to have every team asking organizers at all times what happens when OR to make sure the information is not ambiguous and have the information published and/or confirmed it's read well in advance somewhere for all to see. Which brings me to another point, in relation to ruling for who qualifies to the playoffs. It seems that this part is a bit uncompleted too. I am pretty much left wondering rather than having a stable info what's going on after reading it. We had a discussion with dRaW in LRMvsSas channel some weeks ago (perhaps Meatsheild too?) what would have happened if, given some scenarions, LRM and iFU were in a tie with same amount of CWs and cw sets won and lost. Rules don't give sufficient info to determine who gets 3rd and who 4th. Common sense would dictate a guess that iFU takes the 3rd spot and LRM the 4th since LRM lost to iFU in the head-to-head CW. But how many times we will be relying on pure guessing for such relatively important stuff? More than enough already imho. Understand that I don't care whether I will be playing prepared or not. I don't care if I will be occupied with something else and not be able to play the playoffs at all, whether it be tomorrow or next week. I don't care as much if Sziky, dRaW or Birdie or whoever else is technically prepared to perform inside the game at the given moment. What I care about is some simple announcement, at humanly adequate time, that doesn't make me cringe for various stuff. Also, I agree with Gecko's statement that Saturday's are easy to play on, more often than not people won't be working. I personally have enough stuff undone for weeks now that I actually planned throughout the week to do on Saturday. It's not mandatory though, I guess it will be ok, but still I really dislike being put in such a situation. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
- the organizers of SBWI should have announced concrete dates and times for playoffs sufficiently in advance. Not doing so was definitely a mistake, which unfortunately cannot be undone retroactively, but only learned from for future tourneys - it is not merely an issue of LRM complaining, because players from other teams, like Terror from LagFree and Draw form Sas, have shown that they would generally agree with postponed playoffs - right now the question is: What is the bigger issue - having teams having problems to put together a standing lineup for the first week of playoffs because of the short notice; or throwing it all over again on even shorter notice, although most players and teams at this point may have already planned their weekend accordingly and it is unlikely that the info will actually reach all the players before the announced playing time, which might cause even more severe confusion and frustration. | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
next season, announce playoff schedule along with regular season schedule. possibly leave out a week between the two for more pre-game El Bunker analysis and strategizing! | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On February 01 2014 08:01 sas.ZaRaki wrote: are we playing tomorrow then? i am so confused now Tomorrow? Yes. Admins need to be a bit more responsive? Yes. Is it their first league and can they improve this problem? Yes. Did we need a 3 page argument stating that the whole argument was only about a late announcement? No. Thanks to the staff/casters/anyone who helped make LRT/announcements, etc. GL HF guys. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9498 Posts
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traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On February 01 2014 09:08 2Pacalypse- wrote: Wow, look at the BW community being all mature and shit. I'm proud of you guys. Shocker  | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 01 2014 08:43 skzlime wrote: conclusion: next season, announce playoff schedule along with regular season schedule. possibly leave out a week between the two for more pre-game El Bunker analysis and strategizing! Jackpot. Hard to believe this might actually be serious skzlime post. Truly such a species is said to be exceedingly rare. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
Their tl;dr's "Personal attacking against LRM) x500. I won't talk about the issue, but rather try to tie in issues that have nothing to do with the current situation and piss poor management by SBWI to make them seem correlated." | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On February 01 2014 09:08 2Pacalypse- wrote: Wow, look at the BW community being all mature and shit. I'm proud of you guys. Dunno if you meant me, I wasn't angry or anything, more like not understanding why the long posts from TechnicS, he made his point in the first long post, same goes for trutaCz. On February 01 2014 15:45 Game wrote: @ ninazerg/Geckoxp: Their tl;dr's "Personal attacking against LRM) x500. I won't talk about the issue, but rather try to tie in issues that have nothing to do with the current situation and piss poor management by SBWI to make them seem correlated." I wouldn't say it's piss poor, rather unexperienced. Without knowing details of the organization groups with teams, it looks like it was a hasty move, I said nothing to free them of guilt. However, once they made their decision, it's a lot of work for them to change it last minute again. It should have been communicated sooner, ideally at the start of the season. If they were to re-schedule or make some compromizes for the participating clans, they'd also have to think about re-scheduling the cast, deadlines, coverage and whatnot. For now it looks as if it was easier for the clans to adjust, given that the ruling itself isn't exactly "good", but fair in a sense that it hits all teams the same way. | ||
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iFU.ZerGgBoY
Russian Federation62 Posts
Again so much drama from Lrm). If there was a surprise for u (lrm) that u will make playoffs than u have nothing to do there => give ur spot to PsB. Low orga and activity is ur personal problems Lrm. You think iFU has SUPER players? You think its easy to make all players attend CW? NO! Its orga job, a big hard real job. Teams with better orga always success! Get ready for ur loss. With all manipulations and dirty moves u made u still we be knocked out from league barely making top4. I could say cya in final, but stop ))) u wont do that!Cry me a reaaaaaaaaaaveeeeeeeeeeeeer! | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9498 Posts
Award for best post in this thread goes to: On February 01 2014 08:43 skzlime wrote: conclusion: next season, announce playoff schedule along with regular season schedule. possibly leave out a week between the two for more pre-game El Bunker analysis and strategizing! | ||
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